concentrate consistency

[Caligula]

So I would like to ask for my fellow FC members to contribute to my (and other's) knowledge base in the concentrate arena.

From what I have seen (and please correct me if I'm wrong) but there isn't a thread here dedicated to how various consistencies of concentrates come about. Now, I've garnered enough info through various threads to see things like "whipping" and "winterizing" come up from time to time... but again this is never in one condensed spot (e.g. sticky thread, FAQ, etc.) for ease of reference.

Furthermore, there seems to be even more nuance to this. For example I've had shatter that looks visually very similar, yet one is basically solid at room temp while the other will stick to everything and string up if touched and pulled slightly. Why is this?

Anyway, that's just an example but you get the point. That being said, TIA for any factual information that you can add!

 

[vape4health]

I think I made wax by repeated folding and blow drying on my last 91% iso. It would peel off the pad even when warm but after it cooled it kinda powders up if you mess with it, I just crack a piece off and stuff it down the SR. Shatter loaded better then this stuff but it works.

 

[Silver420Surfer]

Consistently consistent concentrates consistently carouse and cajole.

Shatter i have come across would mimic your experience. Had some crumbles,honeycomb,and moonrock that all kept original consistency in rather warm/hot weather.

I have had some (supposed) Co2(its not like i can test it myself) and more of an ear "wax" type, that did get softer, but wasn't a huge change in overall consistency. The Co2 was the runniest i've encountered, but still not any way "runny".

Hope that helps some.

 

[Denver912]

I've read some where in my google travels about the 10 or 20 types of wax/shatter. It's out there somewhere. Like how some shatters are either almost runny or like taffy or hard as a fuckin rock. Then with waxes you can make peanut butter or flake or typical wax budda or honey comb moon rocks.

Temps in processing, if purged ,solvents, time, filtration methods, quality of starting material ,and purity of the final product all come into play besides the method itself used to make the concentrate.

 

[Snake Plissken]

I think that the more stable a concentrate is, the longer it will hold it's original consistency - whatever that might have been: shatter/wax/etc. W/ mj, you can force color on a plant through cold, nutrient deprivation, etc. - but some strains will naturally exhibit colors. The same holds true for concentrates. You can whip and freeze and manipulate temperatures to achieve a certain consistency, but it won't usually maintain that consistency for as long. Whereas certain strains will automatically budder, wax or even glass out on their own. These will usually hold that consistency much longer (more stable). It can be worth it to whip the oil into a wax just for ease of handling.

Many think that totally dry is the most stable, and it might be, but I prefer a little stick to help maintain flavor/smoothness.

You can turn wax into sticky shatter (sometimes) by throwing it on parchment on a griddle and reheating it in a much thinner layer.

Winterizing is just the process to strip fats, acids, lipids, and other 'unwanted' material from the concentrate. While this will make for a cleaner end product, you lose a lot of terpenes (flavor) in the process. Most people achieve shatter through winterizing, thin pours and vac purging.

Honeycomb is usually achieved by removing bho from heat a little early (or at least seriously reducing heat) and letting it purge 'more naturally' w/o disturbing the mixture as bubbles pop (creating the honeycomb appearance).

I think a lot of commercial guys are aiming for earwax or shatter, and sometimes it just ends up a budder or a crumble.

I've been looking for this youtube vid I found and lost for my next batch (w/ no luck). Some nut added his mostly finished bho to a small amount of everclear and let the reaction occur for a really short time. Instead of freezing and filtering, he went right to cooking it off on the stovetop over a pan of water. It produced some pretty nice shatter w/o the long process. I wanted to try this and see if it improved the quality w/o losing all the flavor from filtering. If anyone knows where that vid is, i'd love to know.

 

[Denver912]

Yeah. It's spraying directly into ever clear and them either filtering off and evaping or straight to evaping. I've read claims that it purges it somehow. I dunno. I will find the thread where I read about it.
http://en.reddit.com/r/CannabisExtracts/comments/1qkp1g/blasting_into_everclear/ <~ info on the subject

http://www.rollitup.org/concentrates-extracts/737324-bho-blasting-straight-into-winterizing.html <~ more info. A video link in this thread. Sounds like your video. Explains it better.

On the subject of the flavor it seems they reported loss of flavor as well and that being worth knowing you had well purged shatter fast and cheap.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Thanks, the vid just explain the winterizing process though. The vid I lost never freezes or filters the mixture once the ec has been added. Somehow(?) this helps achieve a better appearance (shatter), w/o losing the terps when filtering. You would still have all the fats, lipids, etc as well? I'm assuming the increased reaction between the butane and ec cause more of the butane to be released. I plan on trying this soon and will report success/failure.

 

[mvapes]

I don't there's any one true specific consistency to any type of oil or concentrate. Firstly, I believe there's an easy explanation to start with...

Just like weed you can call oil just about anything. I've heard everything from melt to ice to pudding. Fucking pudding! I think it's funny cause when I was a kid there was a million names for weed! Think about it, you can call herb just about anything. The same is happening to oil.

Second, there's no science to this science. If your in an mmj state and buying concentrates from an actual or reputable dispensary with an real oil maker using exact measurements each and every time with access to consistent strains obviously there's going to be some uniformity. Those of you who aren't and your getting it on the street or perhaps making it yourself then think about this. In the last year, how many times have you changed your butane brand, how often do you get weed that sometimes just doesn't do it, or even better - you bought purple and wondered why your extraction was so clear? I hope you see where I'm going with this, there's a fucking ton of variables that will play a roll in your production including the fucking weather!

But, don't be disappointed! It wasn't until recently that a friend and I added a vacuum system to our set up, and worked out a more consistent connection for the flowers that I am starting to see some real consistency in things. Then there was the upgrade from a single stage vacuum to a two stage and no longer was there a constant need for some heat on the oil. There is hope, we learn everyday new techniques in the crazy world of oils. Keep practicing, playing, trying new things and we will eventually get this shit down packed.

Also, keep storage in mind - Shatter will eventually get a limp and sticky, waxes will break down, it's ok - that's fucking science. Lately I've been vac sealing stuff until needed. It's been helping a bit, I notice the smell stays much stronger. Now I've been toying with multiple compounds of different types and strains of the stick stuff to help different ailments and needs.

We gotta long road ahead of us, but this is one that's going to be fun. Let's just hope there's plenty of fucking fast food on said road!

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Lately I've been vac sealing stuff until needed. It's been helping a bit, I notice the smell stays much stronger. Now I've been toying with multiple compounds of different types and strains of the stick stuff to help different ailments and needs.

We gotta long road ahead of us, but this is one that's going to be fun. Let's just hope there's plenty of fucking fast food on said road!

Just wait till you start using Buchner funnels to dewax your oil

 

[Denver912]

The biggest factors that will determine the final color of the concentrate are as follows:

Harvest times. Harvesting cannabis on the early side makes for lighter shades of concentrate, while older, later-harvested cannabis results in darker ones.

Heat. Overheating the concentrate (either for too long or at excessive temps) will darken and weaken the final product.

Light. Cannabis exposed to excessive light will produce darker concentrate. Always manicure buds under artificial light (or in shade – not sunlight) and dry them in darkness. Light will degrade cannabinoids and terpenes, and the result is a less potent and darker-colored concentrate. Indeed, GW Pharmaceuticals recommends exposing cannabis only to amber light after harvest, since amber light will not darken or oxidize the trichome contents. Therefore, the recommended method is to make concentrates only under amber or subdued light.

Age. The older the cannabis is, the darker the concentrate will be. To slow down aging, fresh-freeze cannabis using dry nitrogen gas to replace the oxygen in the storage containers.

As mentioned earlier, the timing of the harvest is important. For example, monitoring THC accumulation in the buds from a single plant, we found that the THC increased from 12% to more than 20% over a three-week period, followed by a plateau for another two weeks before it slowly began to diminish.

Also, the longer cannabinoids stay in the suspension fluid, the darker the fluid will become, and the darker your concentrate will be as a result. So always remove the concentrate from the fluid as soon as possible.

 

[mrboote]

The whole lightness vs darkness thing as a absolute gauge of quality can be a bit of a waste of time, IMHO. You spread any semi-translucent oil thin enough, and shine light through it, it's going to appear amber at the darkest. Mash the amber-colored oil into a dense cube the same stuff will look chocolate brown.

I know an oil maker who consistently makes, how shall we say, bho that looks like shit. It's dark, not quite stable at room temp and leaves a trace of ash when dabbed. That being said, the errl will typically be the best tasting stuff I have. This orange kush oil I have right now is actually sweet tasting when first hit, and the aftertaste is precisely orange peel.

I typically prefer products that dab away totally cleanly, but it is nice to take a trip to "flavor country" every now and again. I do know I would never buy pure gold, or a similar product unless it was to extend the life of a portable or pen. That's too damn much filtration. Artificial flavoring? No thanks.

 

[Denver912]

I copied that from budderkings recipe from the link in other dudes thread about ever clear vs bho. Is a good bit of info I think. Gave me a bit of insight in a few things.

 

[mvapes]

Color means nothing unles it's browned from clearly being over cooked.

It also depends on the sources level of chlorophyll. CBN and CBD are both clear oil globules. THC will be anywhere from a light amber to dark and orange depending on the age of the plant.

It also has a lot to do with your grind, some even try to save money on butane.
The purging process can be completely offset if you have purge longer to get out the impurities from the walmart brand butane.

Co2 eliminates some of the tane variables but then there's a new flavor profile that plays a role.

Then aside from your typical heat purge there's vacuum. To be honest, I believe the biggest problem facing oil extraction is us. Aha! Why you ask?

I'm a pothead just like you guys, answer me this...

When do you make oil? I bet it's when your out, right? So all of a sudden we grind our flowers and set up our extraction area. You get everything ready to go.

Then you run your extraction and your so fucking excited your taking picks of how much you got, your posting em and everybody's cheering you on. Then, time to purge and that excitement takes over and we end up fucking rushing!

A good extraction, as close to perfect as possible, I have seen batches that can days. And no, not straight - im not saying to leave your vacuum running overnight.

It's a process, and I've had some of the best oil and it's colors have ranged from yellow amber to dark doo doo brown.

Hasn't anyone seen Rick Simpson's oil? That shit is almost black.

 

[mrboote]

I copied that from budderkings recipe from the link in other dudes thread about ever clear vs bho. Is a good bit of info I think. Gave me a bit of insight in a few things.

I agree, it all makes sense to me. It isn't saying dark oil is necessarily disgusting and full of butane, but possibly due to old materials or chef's fuck-up. Lots o' peeps don't feel that way. On the other hand I've had white/blond crumble that tasted like... I used this organic fertilizer one time that was ground fish emulsion. That's how the oil tasted, fish emulsion.

I'm a pothead just like you guys, answer me this...

When do you make oil? I bet it's when your out, right?

I have helped make oil one time... I'm the combination of stupid/lazy that would probably be oil-free without wide retail availability.

 

[mvapes]

Great article and pay attention to the color.

http://berkeleypatientscare.com/2011/11/03/the-promising-future-of-hash-oil/