Combustion better for you?

[Jeppy]

Question: Is combustion EVER a better choice than vaping? There's alot of outdoor floating around right now. For some growers, that means pests, molds, chemicals. Personally, I prefer all my cannabis tested, but for those that don't, do you think vaping is better, worse, or no different under these nasty conditions?

 

[Armerad]

I'd think the higher temperatures of combustion would allow for even more nasty chemicals to be affected by the heat, whereas with a vape you may avoid affecting the chemicals because of the lower heat.

 

[momatik]

So, assuming the bud is contaminated with pesticides, pests, or molds, which of the two options is safer?

I imagine that's a really difficult question to answer with any confidence. If I was to talk out of my butt cheeks, I'd say combustion is probably safer since it's a more quick and inefficient process.

edit: see this thread. My thinking is a random pesticide/contaminant might act analogous to ammonia in this study.

I will focus on the results of the vapor from the Volcano vaporizer, as it tended to emit much lower quantities of these gases when compared to the other apparatus. The main finding from the study was that the act of cannabis vaporization actually increased the amount of ammonia when compared to combustion. The vaporized air included a range of 50-70 p.p.m. (parts per million) of Ammonia when compared to only 10-20 p.p.m. found in the combusted mainstream smoke (what is inhaled) from a cannabis cigarette. The researchers suggest that cannabis cigarettes release much of the Ammonia in the side-stream smoke (smoke that is not inhaled and results from the burning edge of the cigarette) thus resulting in much less being inhaled. Unfortunately the closed system of vaporizers results in the capturing & subsequent inhalation of much of the released Ammonia.

 

[Smokey]

This is really a legitimate question...in my last crop I had unfortunately a bit of spidermites on my buds I couldn't get rid of, and I asked myself too if it was better burning vs vaping. Well....I'm actually in between smoking and vaping atm, since I usually light up a spliff at the end of the day, then vape during the evening/night. But the curiosity still remains, I guess vapor is better though, as always, or at least, that's what I'm thinking.

 

[kushcabbage]

bho

 

[Puffers]

Hmmmm I wonder what the common pesticides are used on outdoor grows and what temperatures those chemicals volatize at....

 

[Tweak]

Very good question Jeppy, I've wondered this myself.

On this forum I constantly hear people talk about the safety of the equipment and the vapor air path, but never really see people talk about the safety of the vaped material.

 

[Jeppy]

kushcab, I talked to a guy who builds extractors 'Subzero Extractors'. I posed the same question regarding BHO. He said one can get around pests, but not molds.

 

[kushcabbage]

Possibly, I have no data to back it up if butane extraction will work, but also on the subject of extracts, I'm sure a qwiso wash will destroy any spores. Also heat treating and cooking could destory spores. Although some spores could be more resilent then others. I know anthrax is a spore that can survive quite a beating in nature. In any case smoking some unknown mold and their toxins can/could leave you with some long term health problems.
When in doubt throw it out

 

[Puffers]

Ya but what about pesticides? If the pesticides are non polar chemicals, butane would strip those chemicals from the plant matter and concentrate them into your oil. If your a heavy oiler this could theoretically be more harmful then consuming just the herb could it not? I wonder about bubble hash and other mechanical screening if the pesticides reside in the plant matter alone and not the trichomes that may be the way to go....... Hmmm

 

[kushcabbage]

Ya but what about pesticides? If the pesticides are non polar chemicals, butane would strip those chemicals from the plant matter and concentrate them into your oil. If your a heavy oiler this could theoretically be more harmful then consuming just the herb could it not? I wonder about bubble hash and other mechanical screening if the pesticides reside in the plant matter alone and not the trichomes that may be the way to go....... Hmmm

It would also depend on the micron size of the mesh and the size of the spore. Spores could float and stay with the product the whole time during a water extraction.

 

[djonkoman]

Possibly, I have no data to back it up if butane extraction will work, but also on the subject of extracts, I'm sure a qwiso wash will destroy any spores. Also heat treating and cooking could destory spores. Although some spores could be more resilent then others. I know anthrax is a spore that can survive quite a beating in nature. In any case smoking some unknown mold and their toxins can/could leave you with some long term health problems.
When in doubt throw it out

I thought anthrax was a bacteria(one that is able to encapsulate itself), not a mold?
and I thing not the spores are the (biggest) problem, but the toxins produced by the mold. (like aflatoxins)

 

[vorrange]

Best thing you can do if you vaporize everyday like i do, is to add a bit of cardio training to get the heart pumping and the lungs plumping, i believe i am at my best if i do that.

With the winter weather i find myself skipping my daily runs and i already feel the difference in the morning.

Not much we can do about weed quality if we don't grow it ourselves.. and even then, there is always an overtaxing of your airways if you vaporize everyday.

But ime, combustion is not worth it, even if it kills some spores and bacterias in the process, the smoke itself is much more damaging on the lungs and the entire body than a potential threat of pesticides or harmfull insects that vaporization temperatures aren't able to kill.

 

[Tweek]

Comes down to the lesser of two evils: Do you want the guaranteed toxic chemicals of combusting or the small possibility that your bud may be contaminated?

 

[Jeppy]

Oh, I fully agree. I haven't combusted 'at all' in a couple years. If I had to combust, I would quit. It was simply a 'wonder'.

 

[fubar]

I thought anthrax was a bacteria(one that is able to encapsulate itself), not a mold?

AFAIK Anthrax is a spore forming bacterium - the taxonomic name is bacillus anthracis. It is certainly not a mould and is very unlikley to grow in dried vegetable material.

Question: Is combustion EVER a better choice than vaping?

Maybe a better choice than not vaping - eg if you didn't have time to vaporize and you're in line to see the Hobbit movie when the person in front turns to you with a big grin and a fat joint.
I think I would unhesitatingly and gratefully combust.

Of course, this is a kind of silly answer, because most of us here probably far prefer vaporizing - we notice less impact on the respiratory system the next day and we've read scary shit about polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. I think mould spores and pesticides are potentially serious problems about which we have AFAIK almost no scientific evidence - no idea whether combustion makes those better or worse. It's only through good quality long term reseach that we find out and nobody's doing that right now.

Meanwhile, I far prefer vaporising but it's not like I'm so pure that I'd completely refuse to ever combust under some odd circumstance - but I can't imagine that I'd do it because it was better for my health...

YMMV

mod note: Please avoid back-to-back posts, use the Edit feature instead. Two posts merged.

 

[ChemicallyAltered]

For most pesticides at least, you are going to get two different products depending on whether you vape or combust.

Take DDT (C_14 H_9 Cl_5) for example, it's no longer used, but it's a good representative molecule for organochloride pesticides. Under combustion conditions, the molecule decomposes into CO2 and water, with a little carbon monoxide and soot as well (incomplete combustion due to lack of oxygen). The chlorines in the original molecule will produce chlorinated products. Likewise for organophosphate pesticides except you will get phosphoralated compounds rather than chlorinated.

Under vaporization conditions a few things can happen. If your pesticide is like DDT, it will have too high of a boiling point to be vaporized. If it is like the organophosphate malathion, it will vaporize, and you will be inhaling pesticide. The last option is that the vaporization temp is above the temp where the pesticide decomposes and you inhale some different products.

So, vape is the way to go because it has the possibility of not producing harmful products. With combustion the products will be harmful for sure.

tl;dr: Under combustion you will definitely produce carbon monoxide, soot and chlorinated, phosphoralated, or otherwise dangerous byproducts. With vaporization, you may produce harmful byproducts, you may vaporize the pesticide itself, or the temperature may be to low to affect the pesticide, leaving you safe.

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

I think vaporizing is always better... Vaporization occurs by smoking too.. Imagine a spliff and the hot smoke/air stream from the tip evaporating the subtances in the middle to the end for example... So you get of both worlds which is bad IMO... + the cardboard/paper filters people use... do not handle fine particles so you will eventualy eat some too... LOL... and then i would worry about spider spliff mites making hives inside me .. lol..
For suspicous bud.. I would either make QWET or abosulte amber.. (bho winterized in etanol)
or would at least use heave multi perc water filtration .. with ice too...

 

[Smokey]

and then i would worry about spider spliff mites making hives inside me

O...M...G

That is a freakin' major turndown xD god now I can feel those tiny basterds fabricating webs all around my brainzzz

 

[LeTchen]

I had always thought that it's more dangerous to vaporize bad stuff than smoking it, because with vaporization you took all the material properties, more than smoking... that's why I say to avoid H marocco of the street (it's always cut) and generally all stuffs that you don't grow by yourself...

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

If it molds, I'd just say fuck it and toss it all.

You guys forget that mold can survive in space. What's a little ISO gonna do if it can be fine floating around in space?

My health is a bit more important than a few grams of bud