Colorado Batman Shooting - More to the story?

[BigDaddyVapor]

Assault weapon- any automatic rifle currently used in warfare ? AK47, UZI, M16 as in all
of today's video games

Going to have to be a bit more specific than that.

Funny, that people keep talking about America...

And yet, almost EVERY male citizen in Switzerland is issued an automatic rifle and ammunition.

This isn't automatic, but is used in warfare... EVERY SINGLE MINUTE OF EVERY DAY. In fact, this is what I carried on Security Alerts and when I was attached to Visit, Board, Search and Seizure. Is this an "assault weapon"? I can certainly attest, that it provides a BRUTAL ASSAULT on anyone its fired at. It also happens to be, in MOST expert opinions, the BEST home defense gun available to homeowners. In fact, the sound of a shotgun slide, being cocked is rated as one of the most intimidating sounds, by criminals.

So... is this an assault gun, this gun that is used in every day warfare (AND video games), all over the world?

 

[Vicki]

I have no problem with rifles and hand guns that do not carry clips larger than 20. No one needs the more dangerous shit.

 

[MarcellusWiley]

IMO at the end of the day as many restrictions as we put on guns/assault weapons/armor piercing rounds...you can't control the actions of other people you can only try to prevent it and deal with the consequences...so I'd rather be prepared to deal with them and not restrict my personal freedoms. The punishments for these things should be way tougher and we should have a no tolerance and no bullshit policy for things like this (the massacres), it's disgusting to even see all this planned out shit that the suspect did to make himself look crazy and that they are even considering letting an insanity defense happen with the months of evidence of planning they already have. Just fucking throw the guy in a solitary cell for the rest of his life and be done with it, death is too good for people like this.

 

[AGBeer]

Hey BDV I (believe) its Vertical Board Search and Seizure Id like to share some sea stories one day with someone who would obviously understand/appreciate them

At any rate, an 'assault' weapon mostly brings to mind the AK-47 and other semi-auto weapons that can be easily converted to fully auto - Mostly weapons made to hold 'excessive' amounts of munitions and the ability to rapidly and continuously deploy them. In other words, a weapon that wouldn't necessarily be used for 'defense', but for putting as much lead out as quickly as possible (but not in a specific pattern)

And even though I have been trained and certified (more than once) to carry firearms, I own none to this day. I dont dislike them, I just dont have a whole lot of use for them.
However, I *do* plan to pick up a home defense weapon one of these days. (And yes it WILL be a shotgun) or even something less lethal.

And FWIW, 'Shotgun' is the correct answer when someone gives you the hypothetical "If you were in the jungle all alone and had one weapon you could bring to defend your self..." There are more than one type of rounds for this very versatile weapon

 

[BigDaddyVapor]

For us, during Desert Storm period, it was indeed Visit, Board, Search and Seizure. It was also the same ACRONYM while in the Caribbean doing drug ops, with the Coast Guard. I'm pretty sure my son, he's active-duty, said its still the same.

 

[AGBeer]

Yup... According to Wikipedia it is indeed Visit, Board, Search and Seizure. Of course the acronym was always VBSS. Guess we never really gave it much thought as to what it stood for (and took the word of the coxswain)
ASUW/USW... Dang kinder gentler Navy
TMA - Too many acronyms

 

[Vicki]

This was something I saw on Facebook, but I agree with 100%. The following is a copy and paste:

"They're right..guns don't kill people, people kill people.

It just so happens people who kill innocent people tend to prefer guns. So enough with this insane back and forth about the damn Second Amendment and who's right or wrong. Guns are NOT going anywhere. They're a Constitutionally protected RIGHT...so move o
n.

Now with that said....can we PLEASE have a logical debate about the SAFE way for citizens to own guns because a blanket statement saying we can own guns is childish, ignorant and inadequate.

Yes we can own guns. We can also drink and we can also drive but we can't drink and drive. So having the right to do something does not mean we can't have a logical discussion about SAFETY for citizens while exercising our rights."

 

[BigDaddyVapor]

Oh please...

Where guns are banned, there are higher crime rates (MUCH higher murder rates, btw), than places that allow open carry. Period. Statistics prove it, no I'm looking them back up. Its a simple Google search. In fact, I can also guarantee you, that you can't find a single reference that states "people that kill people, prefer guns".

People are going to kill people, with or without guns. Go back to a time, before guns... were people killing each other? Why yes... they were.

The problem, Vicki... nutcases are nutcases... its not, that guns kill people. No matter how you twist and spin, that will ALWAYS be the truth.

You want "safety", go to a gun safety class. Take your kids to gun safety classes. Educating yourself and your children, about the hazards of firearms and let them see, up close and personal... that they're NOT toys, will be the most effective thing YOU can do.

Oh yeah and get a CCW, learn how to use it and help yourself, avoid being a "victim" someday.

 

[Vicki]

Oh please...

Where guns are banned, there are higher crime rates (MUCH higher murder rates, btw), than places that allow open carry. Period. Statistics prove it, no I'm looking them back up. Its a simple Google search. In fact, I can also guarantee you, that you can't find a single reference that states "people that kill people, prefer guns".

People are going to kill people, with or without guns. Go back to a time, before guns... were people killing each other? Why yes... they were.

The problem, Vicki... nutcases are nutcases... its not, that guns kill people. No matter how you twist and spin, that will ALWAYS be the truth.

You want "safety", go to a gun safety class. Take your kids to gun safety classes. Educating yourself and your children, about the hazards of firearms and let them see, up close and personal... that they're NOT toys, will be the most effective thing YOU can do.

Oh yeah and get a CCW, learn how to use it and help yourself, avoid being a "victim" someday.

"Oh please" is not an intelligent conversation about guns. I'm twisting nothing. No one needs rocket launchers, grenades, etc. The line has to be drawn somewhere. And,I don't need to carry a gun to avoid being a victim, either. As I have said before, IF I ever obtain a firearm, a simple hand gun will suffice, doesn't even need to be automatic.

 

[t-dub]

No one needs rocket launchers, grenades, etc. The line has to be drawn somewhere. And,I don't need to carry a gun to avoid being a victim, either. As I have said before, IF I ever obtain a firearm, a simple hand gun will suffice, doesn't even need to be automatic.

Rules are already in place. I can't go out and buy any of those things. What do you mean by "automatic" define that please.

Edit: Vicki, I like you but you have been lofting a lot of uneducated opinions about our firearms needs, and I am surprised by that. You have neither the education nor the training to be able to consult with me on what my defensive needs are for my home, family and liberty.

 

[Vicki]

Rules are already in place. I can't go out and buy any of those things. What do you mean by "automatic" define that please.

Edit: Vicki, I like you but you have been lofting a lot of uneducated opinions about our firearms needs, and I am surprised by that. You have neither the education nor the training to be able to consult with me on what my defensive needs are for my home, family and liberty.

I am very educated about firearms laws. I am fully aware that the weapons I mentioned are not currently obtainable. However, if some people had their way, they would be, and that scares me. It's the attitude that people want to take away someone's guns, and that's BS. People can have guns to protect themselves, they just don't need a friggin arsenal to do it. That's just common sense. (I already said what I meant by automatic earlier in the thread.)

 

[t-dub]

So you know law but you don't know anything about real firearms. You can't buy an automatic Vicki. Not without filing a whole lotta forms with ATF and waiting like a year or more. If you were to buy a defensive handgun it would be semi-automatic or a revolver, both one trigger pull one "Bang". imo, you are talking out your backside on this issue, you do not have the required experience with firearms to understand my dear.

 

[Vicki]

I'm just advocating better regulation. Here is a good example...and yes, I support this. Makes a good point too.

 

[t-dub]

This is already in place. I purchase all of my ammo here: http://ammoman.com/

They require matching photo ID and credit card ID, on file, before you purchase. All the reporting in the world does nothing, except create noise, that falls on deaf ears. There is already so much reporting they can't keep track of it all.

The wacko in Colorado had a shrink REPORT to everyone they should have that this guy was a problem. No one did anything.

 

[Vicki]

Who in the hell needs 6,000 rounds to protect themselves?

 

[t-dub]

I have even more than that. So what? They were on sale I have an AK-47 as well, semi auto, but it is an SBR. Yes I filed a form 1 with the ATF before I made it. Yes it took over a year and the threat of a constitutional complaint from my representative to get ATF to respond and do their legal duty. You obviously do not understand what you are talking about. How many SBRs have you made? People have different needs and activities, I plink a lot

 

[Vicki]

I don't need any SBR's to know that people don't need several thousand rounds for protection. It's not like an army is going to go after a citizen.

 

[t-dub]

I don't need any SBR's to know that people don't need several thousand rounds for protection. It's not like an army is going to go after a citizen.

Like I said, there are other uses. Proficiency requires practice which requires lots of "cheap" ammo

Who has the guns pointing at who? The government has all the guns they want, pointing at me. The criminals have all the guns they want, pointing at me. All I want is the same to point back, maintain the balance.

Governments have used armies in the past to go after civilians and have killed sever hundred million of them during peacetime in the process. I posted an entire book about this earlier.

 

[Vicki]

I've already been to a shooting range (a place called "Shoot Straight,") and I don't believe it would take me several thousand rounds to be able to use a hand gun well enough to hit my target.

 

[t-dub]

Use a laser, its easy. Just point and shoot the laser really helps show your bad habits as well. And yes even with the training aid, shooting is a lifetime endeavor, if you think you can react at a range, try doing it when you are under threat, a whole different ball game.

 

[Vicki]

I don't think we can afford a gun with a laser.

 

[t-dub]

They are extremely effective, and not too much $$$.

Vicki I will tell you one thing, we were lucky that asshole used a 100 round clip, Those are notorious for jamming, he obviously didn't know this, only idiots buy those things. All of us up at the range instantly know an idiot when they buy those. They were developed specifically for anti aircraft, long barrel fixed mount, applications. He would have been much better off with smaller mags.

Here is what my CZ looks like with one:

 

[Vicki]

We were considering a 38 special, just something simple. My husband suggested a 9mm, but it's a moot point anyway. We walked out without a gun.

 

[t-dub]

Thats good. It means you aren't sure what your needs are yet. Buying the correct firearm is almost like buying the right vape, you can waste a lot of $$$ real quick while trying to find out what you really need and can use.

 

[Vicki]

It's not just that, but that's part of it. It's mostly because guns scare me.