Child birth is gross and I think very ugly

[Maninthemachine]

Not murdering people, murdering animals. One way to look at it is as competition for resources. Making yet another human mouth to feed means that other mouths will go unfed

People are animals my friend. We are certainly not above the natural order of species because our brains are larger than others.
If you are taking someone’s life to feed yours then yes of course mouths will go unfed..why go through that trouble ...or in most cases pay someone’s else to

 

[Madri-Gal]

@OldNewbie, I'm not Reba, but I did look her up to make sure. I do have red hair.
@ClearBlueLou
Your post brought tears to my eyes. What a joyous, awe inspiring, memorable, family building moment. Your daughter is blessed with a wonderful father. May you all have good health, and long lives.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

If you are taking someone’s life to feed yours then yes of course mouths will go unfed

And what about the habitat we convert into farmland to grow our vegetables? There's really no escape. The best we can do is minimize our impact. Not eating animals is one way, not making animals (humans) is another.

 

[-dab8-]

Now childbirth is selfish, and bad for the environment.

This thread is getting better and better...

 

[Maninthemachine]

And what about the habitat we convert into farmland to grow our vegetables? There's really no escape. The best we can do is minimize our impact. Not eating animals is one way, not making animals (humans) is another.

That’s first like is completely false. It takes so much more land to raise animals. Not even an argument to be made lol. If you eat plants you reduce the impact you have on the environment immediately. We have been lied to and it’s time to realize and understand that.
Not eating animals is the most direct way to minimize any impact.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

Not eating animals is the most direct way to minimize any impact.

It's certainly better than using that farmland to grow vegetables that we then feed to cows, pigs, etc. It's (arguably) better still to help reduce our population and maintain healthy biological diversity.

Now childbirth is selfish, and bad for the environment.

This thread is getting better and better...

If we can't say the politically incorrect on FC, where can we? It's all in the OP's spirit of absurdity.

 

[Maninthemachine]

It's certainly better than using that farmland to grow vegetables that we then feed to cows, pigs, etc. It's (arguably) better still to help reduce our population and maintain healthy biological diversity.



If we can't say the politically incorrect on FC, where can we? It's all in the OP's spirit of absurdity.

Biological diversity ? There have been thousands upon thousands of species and millions of animals that have been wiped off this earth because of animal agriculture. Yes having less offspring would help but nothing would help in such a quick way as to not eat other animals or their secretions. It’s not natural..if you really were meant to drink milk you would be latching onto a cows breast/nipple..

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

Nature will win in the end. Earth will go back to being a greenhouse planet, as it was until 100 million years ago when the fern azolla trapped and sequestered an astonishing quantity of carbon, making the icehouse climate for which we evolved possible (and providing the petroleum that's made our own explosive population growth possible). Who knows, maybe it will happen all over again 100 million years after we're gone.

 

[Madri-Gal]

It's certainly better than using that farmland to grow vegetables that we then feed to cows, pigs, etc. It's (arguably) better still to help reduce our population and maintain healthy biological diversity.



If we can't say the politically incorrect on FC, where can we? It's all in the OP's spirit of absurdity.

But is childbirth disgusting beyond words ?! Focus! This is about the Yuk Factor in childbirth, with intermittent pronouncements about All Women, which is offensive in it's own special way.
Maybe it's time to discuss eating the placenta, though I'm more of a 'plant a tree over it kind' of person. Mostly because I'm always looking for free fertilizers. I didn't plant a tree, but I figure there are some 30 + year old disposible diapers my kids crapped in still in a landfill somewhere, so part if their childhood will always remain.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

Maybe it's time to discuss eating the placenta

Hear, hear! Do human mothers feel an almost uncontrollable urge to scarf down their babies' placentae? Canine mothers certainly do.

In a past life, collected placentae from the obstectrics ward to isolate a unique human cell type. (Pardon me, but if you're through with that, may I have it?) A fine use for the detritus of human reproduction. Looked like it might be tasty fried with fava beans and a nice chianti.

 

[Tranquility]

Serious question. Is the following meme, while a joke, in any way discounted by vegans of an antinatalist bent? In other words, are there any antinatalist principles that would prevent approval of the second panel?

 

[His_Highness]

Hear, hear! Do human mothers feel an almost uncontrollable urge to scarf down their babies' placentae? Canine mothers certainly do.

In a past life, collected placentae from the obstectrics ward to isolate a unique human cell type. (Pardon me, but if you're through with that, may I have it?) A fine use for the detritus of human reproduction. Looked like it might be tasty fried with fava beans and a nice chianti.

These days they are saving the placenta for the stem cells (and cord blood) in case stem cell therapy is needed by the child or siblings later in life.

We can freeze eggs, sperm and use surrogates. We've come a long way.

I knew a gentleman who's wife couldn't have children and he didn't seem to be aware of the exposed nerve it represented to him. I commented that someone we both knew was pregnant after trying for years. He responded with a very blunt "So what...even a dog can recreate it's own". True statement but it was the tone of the comment that told me so much more.

 

[macbill]

As we move further away from our agrarian, family-based histories, we are shielded from what used to be common: the birthing of animals, family members, the immediacy of death - killing animals to eat them. We are afraid and disgusted by that which we don't know anymore.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

Serious question. Is the following meme, while a joke, in any way discounted by vegans of an antinatalist bent? In other words, are there any antinatalist principles that would prevent approval of the second panel?

Not an expert antinatalist - actually defended vegans with maternal drives against antinatalists giving them a hard time. But then, always like to be contrary. If nobody had babies, what would cannibals eat?

 

[arb]

As we move further away from our agrarian, family-based histories, we are shielded from what used to be common: the birthing of animals, family members, the immediacy of death - killing animals to eat them. We are afraid and disgusted by that which we don't know anymore.

This while also removing the need for children..........the more we"progress"the farther we move from what we are.

 

[Tranquility]

Not an expert antinatalist - actually defended vegans with maternal drives against antinatalists giving them a hard time. But then, always like to be contrary. If nobody had babies, what would cannibals eat?

But, if more people are eaten, wouldn't there be less babies as a matter of course?

Save a tree, eat a beaver. (Not sure why my brain wanted to put this here, but it told me I gotta.)

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

But, if more people are eaten, wouldn't there be less babies as a matter of course?

Or maybe cannibals, like hunters, are true conservationists managing human "resources" to ensure an ample supply for future generations of cannibals to enjoy.

 

[Madri-Gal]

But, if more people are eaten, wouldn't there be less babies as a matter of course?

Save a tree, eat a beaver. (Not sure why my brain wanted to put this here, but it told me I gotta.)

Wouldn't that apply to any way people were dispatched? I imagine contraception would also work, and be less invasive.
I'm also all for trees...and the other thing. Just not in relation to cannibalism.
My people are pretty heavy into carbs, and not so much about the high protein diets others are so enthusiastic about. We are lazy hunters, and can stalk a danish, pretty much. That is, the pastry, not the people. Not that we don't like the Danes. We just can't run fast enough to catch one.

 

[-dab8-]

As we move further away from our agrarian, family-based histories, we are shielded from what used to be common: the birthing of animals, family members, the immediacy of death - killing animals to eat them. We are afraid and disgusted by that which we don't know anymore.

Well said!

We are lazy hunters, and can stalk a danish, pretty much. That is, the pastry, not the people. Not that we don't like the Danes. We just can't run fast enough to catch one.

This wins the internet for today.

 

[macbill]

I understand food scientists are trying to replicate the taste and mouth-feel of beef. What's to stop them from replicating the taste and mouth-feel of humans? There's a market for anything. Build it and people will eat a path to your door.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

This wins the internet for today.

We can agree on that.

I understand food scientists are trying to replicate the taste and mouth-feel of beef. What's to stop them from replicating the taste and mouth-feel of humans? There's a market for anything. Build it and people will eat a path to your door.

Why stop there? Make meat from your own stem cells and self-cannibalize! That's personalized nutrition.

It all comes together - birth, afterbirth, sex, death, animals, cannibals...

 

[TiSteamo]

For the record, I *DO* have ‘skin’ in this game: my one child, a daughter, was born at home, and I was there for the whole thing. At the end, I made a chair of myself and my wife sat on me, and she was delivered through both our legs with the assistance of gravity.

I clamped the cord, I cut the cord, I held my still-bloody baby, bonding with her while her mother was cleaned up.

I would not exchange the experience for *ANYTHING*: the blood was inconsequential, I remember no smell. After all was done, I cleaned the blood out of the carpet myself and was proud of the job I did on it.

Birth is REAL, birth is LIFE. If you can’t handle it, don’t reproduce, don’t have pets, don’t even work up a sweat: Life is too real for you.

You touched it softly!

 

[TiSteamo]

Not murdering people, murdering animals. One way to look at it is as competition for resources. Making yet another human mouth to feed means that other mouths will go unfed just as surely as killing those other mouths does - especially at this late point in our history.

For the record, humans have as much right to reproduce as any animal, so go for it if you're so inclined. Just please don't think of it as anything other than the fundamental selfishness of life.

If I understand correctly, you consider having children an act of selfishness. In some cases, it could also be. But have you ever thought that it might not be so in many other cases?
Another interesting question could be:
Out of seven billion people, how many were really "programmed"?
When a child arrives, unless there are serious reasons, it has to be accepted as a blessing, with love.
Sometimes "selfishness" is just the opposite of what you said: that is, continuing to think only of yourself.
I think it's easier.
I've always heard that the most difficult job is being a parent: it's fucking true!
I want to quote a very beautiful phrase that I have read about this topic:

"(The children) They are small Zen masters who keep us constantly trained: living with them is sweet and hard at the same time, pleasant and stressful, fun and sad, sometimes simple, sometimes terribly difficult.
Just like in any good zen training.
"The Zen masters give no explanation. They are only a presence" writes Jon Kabat-Zinn. And he remembers his newborn children," who, like all new-born babies, resembled little Buddhas, with a round belly, a disproportionate head, a mysterious smile ".
The presence and teachings of a Zen master enable people to get in touch with themselves, to recognize their true nature. The wisdom of Zen masters encourages others to find their own way, completely personal and to follow it to the end.
Thanks, children!"

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

If I understand correctly, you consider having children an act of selfishness. In some cases, it could also be. But have you ever thought that it might not be so in many other cases?
Another interesting question could be:
Out of seven billion people, how many were really "programmed"?

Good point! Even today, relatively few people have the luxury to control their own reproduction.

But doesn't that give those of us who can all the more reason to?

 

[ClearBlueLou]

“Anti-Natalism”?
What an annoyingly bullshit pose!

Just say you’re anti-human, it’s more honest and doesn’t pretend a superior moral position. Being pro-death is more honest still, but might strike you as somehow less fun since you don’t get to outrage strangers for your own amusement with that one...because if there should be no people - and charity begins at home - then you know what to do