CBD Question

[GenYHippie]

I know the same strain can have different results at different temps or if ingested. Im wondering if i didnt like the feel of my high CBD flowers in my vape if tincture would act differently? Im just not having luck with vaping for pain . Even at low temp the strains like cannatonic and harlequin were way to much at even one shallow hit.

I have them i want to like them figure if my current tincture comes out ok i might try it with those. Any input on vaping vs alcohol tinc for high CBD's is appreciated

 

[t-dub]

Vaping a high CBD strain at lower temps might be self defeating since CBD has a higher boiling point than THC. When ingesting actives orally there is the first pass liver effect which changes delta-9-thc into 11-hydroxy-thc, a much more psychoactive substance. Some people like it, I don't, everyone is different. Also, cannabinoids are all about ratios of medicine. So you are looking for a higher ratio of CBD to THC not just higher amounts and your ingestion method will effect the ratio your body receives.

Cannabidiol (CBD)
Formula: C21H30O2
Molecular Mass: 314.2246 g/mol
Boiling Point: 180 °C (356 °F)
Cannabidiol is “non-psychoactive” (in that it does not produce the euphoria, time dilation, or anxiety normally produced by THC) and has been shown to be extremely valuable in the treatment of seizure disorders such as MS and Epilepsy. Its lack of psychoactivity makes it ideal in treating children, the elderly and patients that prefer to remain clear headed and focused. CBD is often as effective as THC in the management of pain and tumors. CBD also lowers blood sugar, and has been used in the treatment of Diabetes. CBD has a calming effect, and is useful in the treatment of stress related disorders and sleep loss.

 

[smokum]

snip: "And extensive clinical research has demonstrated that CBD combined with THC is more beneficial for neuropathic pain than either compound as a single molecule."

Was just reading this article : 8 Things You Should Know About Pot Cannabidiol

Maybe your understanding of CBD & THC is not aiding in the relief you're seeking (since cannabis and its components affect us all differently), and thought this article may provide you with enough questions to perhaps consider a different approach that may better suit you own body.

If not... well, anything that adds a little knowledgeable gain concerning gawds gift is at least worth posting eh

 

[Enchantre]

I've started using an RSO oil from Harle Tsu, a high CBD strain, I believe Indica is the back ancestry... it's an amazing base level for pain, without much head.

I also make edibles from cheap concentrates. I can get $20 per gram "shatter"... it's usually pretty dark, has almost no real "head" at all (daresay it would test abysmally low for THC), but is clean, and has a heavy couch-lock/pain relieving effect. I melt it into butter or oil, then make goodies from it. Yesterday, I made butter from some Purple Diesel bho, to the tune of 150 mg/tbsp, and made little pecan tarts from that, at 50mg each.

You can do the same with tincture. evap off as much of the alcohol as you can, then add it to hot oil/butter (use your range hood vent), so that the alcohol evaps off all the way. Use as normal for baked goods.

Start with a recipe that will give you 5 - 7 mg per dose. That's where I started. There are 1000 mg in 1gram... hubby did the heavy math lifting for me, along with Google. Try it when you've got a day to indulge in "science", and test dosage amounts.

I'm gonna make traditional "pot brownies" (gluten- & dairy-free, of course) with buds, too. Haven't yet. It's my next edible adventure...

 

[GenYHippie]

Vaping a high CBD strain at lower temps might be self defeating since CBD has a higher boiling point than THC. When ingesting actives orally there is the first pass liver effect which changes delta-9-thc into 11-hydroxy-thc, a much more psychoactive substance. Some people like it, I don't, everyone is different. Also, cannabinoids are all about ratios of medicine. So you are looking for a higher ratio of CBD to THC not just higher amounts and your ingestion method will effect the ratio your body receives.

Cannabidiol (CBD)
Formula: C21H30O2
Molecular Mass: 314.2246 g/mol
Boiling Point: 180 °C (356 °F)
Cannabidiol is “non-psychoactive” (in that it does not produce the euphoria, time dilation, or anxiety normally produced by THC) and has been shown to be extremely valuable in the treatment of seizure disorders such as MS and Epilepsy. Its lack of psychoactivity makes it ideal in treating children, the elderly and patients that prefer to remain clear headed and focused. CBD is often as effective as THC in the management of pain and tumors. CBD also lowers blood sugar, and has been used in the treatment of Diabetes. CBD has a calming effect, and is useful in the treatment of stress related disorders and sleep loss.

I have the chart in my binder of what release at what temps but despite a year of vaping ive never been able top go past 350F on my solo without coughing so bad i throw up .

snip: "And extensive clinical research has demonstrated that CBD combined with THC is more beneficial for neuropathic pain than either compound as a single molecule."

Was just reading this article : 8 Things You Should Know About Pot Cannabidiol

Maybe your understanding of CBD & THC is not aiding in the relief you're seeking (since cannabis and its components affect us all differently), and thought this article may provide you with enough questions to perhaps consider a different approach that may better suit you own body.

If not... well, anything that adds a little knowledgeable gain concerning gawds gift is at least worth posting eh

Thanks for the link ill go read. Im a total oddball and love research . I have both nerve pain and inflammatory joint pain so if i could knock the edge off either id be happy

I've started using an RSO oil from Harle Tsu, a high CBD strain, I believe Indica is the back ancestry... it's an amazing base level for pain, without much head.

I also make edibles from cheap concentrates. I can get $20 per gram "shatter"... it's usually pretty dark, has almost no real "head" at all (daresay it would test abysmally low for THC), but is clean, and has a heavy couch-lock/pain relieving effect. I melt it into butter or oil, then make goodies from it. Yesterday, I made butter from some Purple Diesel bho, to the tune of 150 mg/tbsp, and made little pecan tarts from that, at 50mg each.

You can do the same with tincture. evap off as much of the alcohol as you can, then add it to hot oil/butter (use your range hood vent), so that the alcohol evaps off all the way. Use as normal for baked goods.

Start with a recipe that will give you 5 - 7 mg per dose. That's where I started. There are 1000 mg in 1gram... hubby did the heavy math lifting for me, along with Google. Try it when you've got a day to indulge in "science", and test dosage amounts.

Thanks Enchantre i havent seen that strain before. Rarely i see a RSO that lists what strains were used thats cool that you know. Great to know about turning shatter into infuse oil. I cant have airy but i can put it in coconut oil. Might be great for topical too since my dispensary seems to have discontinued the one i like. Those tarts sound delicious! You really cant get any better than having pie for pain relief lol.

Thanks for saving me the math it was never my strong suit unless im baking sweets lol

 

[t-dub]

I have the chart in my binder of what release at what temps but despite a year of vaping ive never been able top go past 350F on my solo without coughing so bad i throw up .

Have you tried a different brand of vape that is capable of delivering higher temps without all that harshness? Your salvation may lie in that direction. Also, moisture conditioning will help a lot.

 

[herbivore21]

Guys, these boiling point based vaping temps are not anywhere near as precise as you think.

Remember that we are dealing with organic material being heated unevenly. Whilst the nominal temp of your vape might be the boiling point of a given compound - this does not mean that this is the uniform temp of every single deposit of the given compound in a given sample of herb/oil in your bowl/dish.

The initial post is not extremely clear. It would help to clarify what is meant by the effect being 'way too much'.

By 'way too much', do you mean you were getting too much of a high? If so, specifically what kinds of feelings are 'too much'? Are you feeling too sleepy? Too much psychadelic effect/headiness? Too much couchlock?

 

[t-dub]

Guys, these boiling point based vaping temps are not anywhere near as precise as you think.

I never said they were. However, you get a different high when you vape at a higher temperature right? So there is a difference.

 

[herbivore21]

I never said they were. However, you get a different high when you vape at a higher temperature right? So there is a difference.

Yes, but what I am saying is that we don't have such fine control over the temperature as we think.

When we are trying to purge solvents from oils, we all notice that heat does not distribute evenly through the material. This is noticable even if you have a slab of the purest, finest oil sitting on an oil slick/parchment in your vac chamber and/or heat purge setup as opposed to an even thin film which has evaporated on a properly designed boro evaporation vessel. The slab will have thinner and thicker points, the former will be free of solvent bubbles long before the latter points are. This illustrates the myriad factors which provide the variable results we get from trying to boil out a given compound at it's nominal boiling point when it is not evenly exposed to the heating medium. Obviously, ground plant material, being a veritable slurry of particulates - consisting of actives and inactives of varying sizes and shapes - is going to similarly be exposed to uneven heat, leading to inconsistent and variable results.

The original post was about high CBD strains, seemingly the OP doesn't like the high they get from these buds regardless of the temp they vape at (however I sought clarification of this because I wasn't quite clear from the original post). With this clarification, assisting the OP will be easier

This is more likely to be due to the psychoactive constituents of the buds in question. THC, THCA, THCV, CBN and others. I have been fortunate enough to get my hands on oils which are free of THC/THCA (less than .02% cumulative total!) and even these can still have psychoactive effect IME due to small (probably around 10% after concentration) amounts of CBN and THCV variously found in the different oils I have.

If the OP is needing to avoid getting super high, they are really in need of the next generation of designer concentrates. I would recommend trying omega labs products which have had all THC/THCA removed in the meantime. Of course, only until the day comes that we can get products with certifiably no compounds which will give an unwanted high.

 

[t-dub]

Yes, but what I am saying is that we don't have such fine control over the temperature as we think.

Right but I never said that we did. I fully understand your point and have for some time. You read something into my previous post(s) that was not there.

Getting back to the OP, if she is getting too high from her low temp vaping, a high CBD strain should help smooth that out if anything, at least thats the effect they had on me. CBD is supposed to down-regulate the effects of THC which is part of the "entourage effect" I believe.

If she turns the temp on the vape up it should help mellow the experience.

 

[GenYHippie]

Have you tried a different brand of vape that is capable of delivering higher temps without all that harshness? Your salvation may lie in that direction. Also, moisture conditioning will help a lot.

All i have is my solo and MFLB. I keep trying to save up especially for a water tool and all its fittings but being switched over to medicare is costing me alot more than i expected health wise . It will take time but it will happen eventually.

The initial post is not extremely clear. It would help to clarify what is meant by the effect being 'way too much'.

By 'way too much', do you mean you were getting too much of a high? If so, specifically what kinds of feelings are 'too much'? Are you feeling too sleepy? Too much psychadelic effect/headiness? Too much couchlock?

Oh im sorry my tooth pain right now is seriously dumbing me down right now. My CBD experiences include some really horrible headaches, anxiety, unpleasant tingling wave/rushes, insomnia, and feeling like my insides were having a seizure which *tmi* lead to alot of time on the loo. I also had some dizziness but i cant be 100% sure if that was the MJ or not i have auditory migraines that cause vertigo. Since i ha a headache that may have been part of that.

I also have autonomic dysfunction an found my heart to be racy making my limbs feel very heavy an weak. Hopefully that helps narrow it down a but more.

If the OP is needing to avoid getting super high, they are really in need of the next generation of designer concentrates. I would recommend trying omega labs products which have had all THC/THCA removed in the meantime. Of course, only until the day comes that we can get products with certifiably no compounds which will give an unwanted high.

Oh thats really interesting. Im way behind on my MJ newsletters ive never heard of that. I knew more THC-A items were coming out but didnt know a company has isolated things like that. I willhave to go goggle

 

[Enchantre]

The headaches could be attributed to CBN, as well... it's not unknown...
and that sounds to me like sativa effects... this is why I avoid them.

Especially feeling out of sorts, and racing heart.

 

[GenYHippie]

The headaches could be attributed to CBN, as well... it's not unknown...
and that sounds to me like sativa effects... this is why I avoid them.

Especially feeling out of sorts, and racing heart.

Thank you Enchantre my dispensary only guarantees to post the THC/CBD %'s sometimes CMB or THC-A. Yeah i was suprised at first that the high CBD strains come from so much sativa linage considering i think of sativas as THC "uppers" an CBD as non-psychoactive its a brain boggler lol

 

[mayan]

I dunno...something seems off...I have been vaping or sublingualing a high CBD strain with trace elements of THC and there's been nothing even remotely approaching what you described. To the contrary, the experience is almost transparent, except at times one can get "wide" instead of "high". If anything, it should be a relaxing/calming experience. If it was a high CBD, it sounds like there were high amounts of THC and other cannabinoids at play. Strange! What was the ratio of percentages listed?

 

[GenYHippie]

Hi @mayan im sorry i wrote a reply but apparently it didnt go through as i thought. The flowers ive tried range from 1:1, 4:1, 18:1. I o keep a chart of all the test results, the strain and when i bought it. My highest THC % in my stash is 16% most are 8-12% my high CBD strains are about 5% THC

 

[mayan]

Ah, thanks, GYH...I'm by no means experienced as a cannapharmacologist but after my experiences with a CBD plant with trace THC (as well as many others' experiences with this or similar strains), this has me scratching my head - I would be shocked if it was the CBD causing the responses that you wrote about, however. Sounds to me like THC (maybe from less mature plants) or an entourage effect from the full range of cannabinoids. I know that even the same strains of cannabis can affect people very differently but I have seen nothing in the literature about the kind of ride that you described. But who knows - maybe the way some are wired leads to "interesting" reactions? Very interested in how things go forward in your experimenting. Best o' luck!

 

[GenYHippie]

Ah, thanks, GYH...I'm by no means experienced as a cannapharmacologist but after my experiences with a CBD plant with trace THC (as well as many others' experiences with this or similar strains), this has me scratching my head - I would be shocked if it was the CBD causing the responses that you wrote about, however. Sounds to me like THC (maybe from less mature plants) or an entourage effect from the full range of cannabinoids. I know that even the same strains of cannabis can affect people very differently but I have seen nothing in the literature about the kind of ride that you described. But who knows - maybe the way some are wired leads to "interesting" reactions? Very interested in how things go forward in your experimenting. Best o' luck!

Its alright my boy is a total oddball. Im in the process of getting a genetic disorder diagnosis so if is confirmed then i would know why i metabolize everything different so that may play into it. Thanks for the well wishes ill keep trying . If my first batch of shake tincture comes out ok i wil try it with my left over high CBD flowers i think the fact i have near no tolerance complicates things.

 

[OldOyler]

Hi all,

I agree with @Enchantre . I use RSO sublingually myself, and found that if you follow skunk pharm's "Holy Anointing Oil" recipe for instance, you can simply keep thinning the oil out with more coconut oil.

The coconut oil *vastly* improved my pain relief (multiple peripheral neuropathy, eff the pain meds I won't take them any more), and the intensity of that pain relief.

I use a 15ml amber glass container (they are listed on Amazon as "1/2 oz" I think) that has a built in glass dropper, which I have mentioned before, but the idea is that the drop from that RSO/coconut-and-flavoring oil can be as strong or as weak as you want it to be, and is simpler than trying to change the underlying dose (obviously because it's already very concentrated, and it's hard to tell what "less" is when dealing with such small amounts.

I won't duplicate something I posted elsewhere on FC, but alot will always have to do with not just strain, but when did it get harvested (trike state when pulled), post-harvest handling (drying and curing methods), etc.

I use the same oil, by the way, mixed 1:1 with EJMix for vaping as my "breakthrough pain control". But I am revisiting how I make the oil, for efficacy and also now following a concentrate safety thread here on FC.

One other note - I leave the oil "unflavored" (i.e. - not mixed with coconut oil) in several glass containers until I am ready to use them. That way, if I really found that I wanted a more relaxing effect version, I simply put the glass container into a 250-degree(F) and decarb it even more (by observing CO2 bubble production) to allow more THC-to-CBN conversion, and will consider that bottle my "night oil". I am not comfortable heating it once I have added the other ingredients, but that's just me.

(To be fair, I am now working primarily on the front-end, i.e. - harvest methods, post-harvest methods, to manipulate the THC-to-CBN ratio, but thought the above might help)

Hope that helps. If not, ignore it. Plenty of great folks here and someone WILL get you the answers you are looking for!

:-)

Peace and good things to you!

OldOyler Edit: And one other note. I think we act like the drug companies sometimes. There are clearly MORE than two active cannabinoids (THC and CBD) in cannabis. So I have been careful, for myself, not to limit myself. I use a white wid for my oil that tested at 24% THC, 1% CBD, and I am getting the best pain relief of my life!

 

[GenYHippie]

Hi all,

I agree with @Enchantre . I use RSO sublingually myself, and found that if you follow skunk pharm's "Holy Anointing Oil" recipe for instance, you can simply keep thinning the oil out with more coconut oil.

The coconut oil *vastly* improved my pain relief (multiple peripheral neuropathy, eff the pain meds I won't take them any more), and the intensity of that pain relief.

I use a 15ml amber glass container (they are listed on Amazon as "1/2 oz" I think) that has a built in glass dropper, which I have mentioned before, but the idea is that the drop from that RSO/coconut-and-flavoring oil can be as strong or as weak as you want it to be, and is simpler than trying to change the underlying dose (obviously because it's already very concentrated, and it's hard to tell what "less" is when dealing with such small amounts.

I won't duplicate something I posted elsewhere on FC, but alot will always have to do with not just strain, but when did it get harvested (trike state when pulled), post-harvest handling (drying and curing methods), etc.

I use the same oil, by the way, mixed 1:1 with EJMix for vaping as my "breakthrough pain control". But I am revisiting how I make the oil, for efficacy and also now following a concentrate safety thread here on FC.

One other note - I leave the oil "unflavored" (i.e. - not mixed with coconut oil) in several glass containers until I am ready to use them. That way, if I really found that I wanted a more relaxing effect version, I simply put the glass container into a 250-degree(F) and decarb it even more (by observing CO2 bubble production) to allow more THC-to-CBN conversion, and will consider that bottle my "night oil". I am not comfortable heating it once I have added the other ingredients, but that's just me.

(To be fair, I am now working primarily on the front-end, i.e. - harvest methods, post-harvest methods, to manipulate the THC-to-CBN ratio, but thought the above might help)

Hope that helps. If not, ignore it. Plenty of great folks here and someone WILL get you the answers you are looking for!

:-)

Peace and good things to you!

OldOyler Edit: And one other note. I think we act like the drug companies sometimes. There are clearly MORE than two active cannabinoids (THC and CBD) in cannabis. So I have been careful, for myself, not to limit myself. I use a white wid for my oil that tested at 24% THC, 1% CBD, and I am getting the best pain relief of my life!

Thank you for chiming in .Glad youve found a good system for relief. Im in no position to grow and only a few dispensaries here test but i feel luck considering the selection i have. So ive got to work with whats available to me for now. Its interesting to read about through.

 

[OldOyler]

@GenYHippie ,

And here was one I am only posting because it was one of the Yahoo Health news articles. (Probably the best info is from links *within* the article.

But it absolutely discusses various known allergic reactions when using/handling cannabis:

http://news.yahoo.com/marijuana-may-trigger-allergies-people-143920301.html

Peace!

 

[Philreal187]

I was at a local head shop just poking around checking things ouy and got to discussing CBD oil with the worker. He said he uses it for anxiety and it works great. So this sparked my interest.

I have been googling and researching ad much info as I can handle on cbd but still come up not fully understanding if this is something worth investing in. I use recreational and only maybe once a night. I have cut down my old habits to save money and I feel better sober throughout my day. Once I'm home for the night I enjoy a session before hitting the sack.

So back to cbd I was thinking of using this as something I could hit a few times a day to keep me mellow. I also plan to quit using in about a year to clean my piss up for a move so I don't limit job opportunities.

I'm really just looking for personal experiences with cbd. Is it worth the price tag if I'm not looking to target a direct medical condition?

 

[mixchu69]

I was at a local head shop just poking around checking things ouy and got to discussing CBD oil with the worker. He said he uses it for anxiety and it works great. So this sparked my interest.

I have been googling and researching ad much info as I can handle on cbd but still come up not fully understanding if this is something worth investing in. I use recreational and only maybe once a night. I have cut down my old habits to save money and I feel better sober throughout my day. Once I'm home for the night I enjoy a session before hitting the sack.

So back to cbd I was thinking of using this as something I could hit a few times a day to keep me mellow. I also plan to quit using in about a year to clean my piss up for a move so I don't limit job opportunities.

I'm really just looking for personal experiences with cbd. Is it worth the price tag if I'm not looking to target a direct medical condition?

Hi philreal187,

I think I am looking for the same thing as you, anxiety relief from cbd. I hear so many great things, but when I consume cbd products (tried cheeba chew full cbd, concentrates from cbd plants), I don't experience the therapeutic properties others claim. Maybe I'm expecting it to affect me like THC, but would appreciate advice from the FC members on the best way to consume cbd products and which products are the best (read OL in another thread on FC). Maybe sublingual tinctures are best???

 

[GenYHippie]

I was at a local head shop just poking around checking things ouy and got to discussing CBD oil with the worker. He said he uses it for anxiety and it works great. So this sparked my interest.

I have been googling and researching ad much info as I can handle on cbd but still come up not fully understanding if this is something worth investing in. I use recreational and only maybe once a night. I have cut down my old habits to save money and I feel better sober throughout my day. Once I'm home for the night I enjoy a session before hitting the sack.

So back to cbd I was thinking of using this as something I could hit a few times a day to keep me mellow. I also plan to quit using in about a year to clean my piss up for a move so I don't limit job opportunities.

I'm really just looking for personal experiences with cbd. Is it worth the price tag if I'm not looking to target a direct medical condition?

I wish i had a more helpful answer i never tried MJ until i had some serious medical issues going on so i dont have recreational experience. Though on a side note have you tried L-Theanine? Its something i take when anxiety is high that helps and wont mess up your urine/blod tests.

 

[Wizsteve]

Yeah i was suprised at first that the high CBD strains come from so much sativa linage considering i think of sativas as THC "uppers" an CBD as non-psychoactive its a brain boggler lol

Low THC (less than 1%) high CBD is common for hemp which is a sativa which can cause headaches so when looking for high CBD look for a high ratio instead . Total for the 2 should equal at least 20% if not do not buy.. look for the Maui we had some here at 9%thc and 16%cbd for oil times the percentages by 3-4 so ending oil Could have 27%-36%thc ,48%-64%cbd


Unlike THC CBD takes longer to produce up to 4 weeks longer grow time ,however many growers are well complete idiots and harvest them at peak THC levels.

 

[hibeam]

@GenYHippie, the genetic test I got and mentioned elsewhere on fc solved all my reaction mysteries and I hope you have the same success.

@Enchantre thanks for the heads up on CBN.

I am super migraine prone, often suicidal bad pain, get those crazy ones that block up one ear, but I am migraine free now. Over ripe cannabis always gives me migraine and I could not figure out why, thinking CBD should cure not cause. Now I bet it is the CBN. I microdose barely ripe Indica and make butter out of just ripened Sativa and do very well. My great remedy for any anxiety or being too high is 100mg of flush niacin. And niacin can abort migraine...http://www.nutritionj.com/content/4/1/3