Cannabis News

[MinnBobber]

1. Demonize definition
   portray as wicked or threatening

Sweet Jesus--we better portray opiates as threatening cuz they kill thousands every year.
It is stupid to NOT portray them as threatening, because they are.

Again, no reflection on the user and how we treat opiate addiction, we need to move to treatment model, not incarceration model.

I'm sorry but I just do not understand NOt portraying hard drugs as threatening.... as they kill thousands!!

 

[Gunky]

1. Demonize definition
   portray as wicked and threatening

Sweet Jesus--we better portray opiates as threatening cuz they kill thousands every year.
It is stupid to NOT portray them as threatening, because they are.

Again, no reflection on the user and how we treat opiate addiction, we need to move to treatment model, not incarceration model.

I'm sorry but I just do not understand NOt portraying hard drugs as threatening.... as they kill thousands!!

In large part, the reason they kill thousands is because they are demonized. Because they are illegal people use shitty, contaminated drugs and used hypos. They are demonic, so by definition teenagers are attracted to them. Which part of that is difficult to understand? People die because they are doing this in secret, why? because they and the shit are fucking demonized...

What do you do with something demonic, evil? Make it against the law! Thereby creating criminals who have to be pursued, apprehended, locked up... Right back to where we are now.

Let me suggest a way out: being addicted to a physically addictive substance like [insert drug name here] is a drag. Check out these people injecting themselves and then sitting listlessly for hours like zombies. Check out this guy's withdrawal symptoms. Look at his arm. yadda yadda

 

[MinnBobber]

I'm not sure what definition of demonize you use or what personal connotations you are attaching.
Demonize = portray as a threat, nothing more, nothing less, no judgment on users, just that they kill thousands.

If you demonize opiates, you merely educate (advertise) that they are THREATENING.
And how could a drug that kills thousands NOT BE THREATENING???

Has NOTHING to do with solutions but just educating people that they KILL.

Totally separate issue is how to deal with this KILLER THREAT.
You could give them away at state clinics.
You can stop jailing for drug violations.
You could make them legal

Again, if you don't portray opiates as a threat, that's a huge lie.

I think we are using way different definitions of "demonize"
Mine--to portray as threatening... from dictionary

So exactly what definition of "demonize" are you using as it seems to be very different

 

[Gunky]

Has NOTHING to do with solutions but just educating people that they KILL.

OK so alcohol kills just as many. Should we demonize it? Yes or no? If you say no that makes you a hypocrite and if you say yes you're a pain in the ass. (I drink a bourbon and water every day around 6 and the effects are salutary, thank you very much).

 

[MinnBobber]

Certainly we should "portray alcohol as a threat" ----that's the definition of "demonize it".
Doesn't mean we make it illegal.
We EDUCATE that alcohol can be addictive/ kill thousands. Use with caution and knowledge of it

So what's your definition of demonize?
Mine is "to portray as threatening" , from the dictionary?
I have strong reason to believe you're using some very different definition, with a lot of "baggage" attached to it.

Demonize is not some witch-hunt crusade, it is "portraying as a threat"- for alcohol and opiates that together kill THOUSANDS, that is one big mo-fo of a threat

DEMONIZE = PORTRAY AS A THREAT
Your definition ?????? please

 

[Gunky]

Demonize is a "witch hunt crusade" by definition. Demon, witch?

If something is demonic it's evil. This is talk in absolutes. If somebody uses something evil that stigmatizes them. You are grasping at straws and maybe have missed the point: demonizing is the problem, not the solution. Demonizing, for the most part of the users (while prescribing of various related drugs goes on unabated and with much profit-making) is what we have now. If we want to change the outcome (deaths), we have to change what we are doing.

 

[howie105]

IMO the best one can do about most any drug is provide people with accurate and objective information. Otherwise you can end up in an informational cesspool like we been in for generations with MJ.

 

[MinnBobber]

Demonize is a "witch hunt crusade" by definition.

Have never seen that definition..... Seems like a stretch to me

Demonize:
"to portray as wicked or threatening"
"to portray as bad or evil"

No witch hunt crusade involved here
To "demonize" heroin and opiates = "to portray as threatening"/ kills thousands.

No witch hunt crusade attached to portraying heroin/ opiates as threatening, just the truth.
Totally open options for how to deal with the addiction issue as that's a completely different issue--

Again, I have no problem portraying heroin as "bad and threatening", do you?

 

[grokit]

.........................................................................
If you demonize the drug, that makes users of that drug merely someone who has fallen under the wily spell of a killer drug----and all the treatment options can be open to them, not punishment and incarceration.

If you don't demonize hard drugs, then what's the message---these drugs are fine, no problem??
Tell it like it is---these drugs are demons, that kill thousands--how can that not be a huge demon??

There have been studies done in europe that say that even heroin users can lead healthy, productive lives indefinitely, as long as the heroin use is supervised and dispensed by a physician. I don't think that vicodin users etc. are really much of a problem, as long as the user understands physical tolerance and addiction dynamics. Opiates can even be more effective and less harmful than ssri drugs, when used properly. All they do is disconnect the brain from pain receptors, they don't make you go out and steal a car.

 

[fernand]

Grokit, right on. The current wave of misinformation is more of the same.


One interesting thing about cannabis is that it's a extremely complex mix of active chemicals, each of which comes as many isomers (shape variations of an asymmetrical molecule).

The poppy as a plant also produces a wide range of actives. The extract, opium, has been used as a relatively benign drug for thousands of years. The unfortunate separation of one compound as being "the active alkaloid", morphine, led to a pain-reliever with a less balanced action than e.g. an Opium alcohol extract (Laudanum), and with more serious rebound effects. We missed a chance to study how to make a better analgesic not by tweaking one molecule but by using a complex mixture of agonists and antagonists as natural plants suggest.

This isn't as simple a subject as the current line would have it. For one thing, medically it's demonstrable that some people are better off on opiates than not. This would be some chronic pain patients and some psychological cases, as well as Cancer and other "terminals". It's now known that some depressed people respond better to opiates than to the usual SSRIs. A lot of people through the ages have lived productive and moderate lives on Opiates, just as on Cannabis, Coffee, Alcohol, Aspirin etc. -- PEOPLE issues.

Cannabis is unusual in that it produces less rebound than other psychoactive drugs. It makes sense that so many different receptors in the nervous system (and beyond) are being antagonized and agonized by so many different isomers of so many different compounds, with many of the actives and their metabolites being long acting and fat-soluble, hence accumulating and getting slowly released back into the bloodstream, that the net rebound is largely balanced out. It seems that's also why it's of such low acute toxicity, the heart is being accelerated by one effect, and slowed by another, and so on. Again this could be a clue to be used for development of better drugs, including opiates. Buprenorphine seems like a good start.

 

[MinnBobber]

I will never buy into opiates being ok. They have their place, last place. All other remedies should be tried first before resorting to opiates. They are vastly over-prescribed.

Opiates are really the antithesis of cannabis. Demonizing them, by definition merely means "portraying them as bad or threatening" which I find hard to argue when they kill thousands, and that's just the legal prescription painkillers. Adding in the illegal opiate deaths by the thousands just makes them more threatening and badder.

The major educational effort should be enhanced with every possible effort to switch opiate "addicts" to cannabis therapy which has proven to be an "exit drug". In states with medical cannabis, opiate painkiller deaths have fallen 24.8%.

And saying a state sponsored "heroin addict" is leading a healthy life is a misnomer. With their heroin habit, their own body's natural pain relievers shut down. Cannabis enhances your own natural pain relievers. Opiate use leads to "hyper analgesia" where your body becomes MORE sensitive to pain.
I saw firsthand for years our state's Methadone patients who get legal heroin substitute and let me tell you, they are not healthy. And Methadone kills 5,000 a year.

And don't get me started on opiate side effects vs cannabis therapy. Many legal opiate users are on a cocktail of assorted drugs to combat the side-effects of opiates and then the side effects of the anti-side effects drugs etc. For many opiate users, having a bowel movement is more like having a baby

Cannabis enhances your bodies own endocannabinoid system, letting your own body move toward homeostatis or balance. We should be pushing for cannabis instead of opiates when appropriate

It's pretty simple, cannabis should be at the top of the medicine food chain and opiates at the bottom
of the chain, for their tiny niche---instead of the other way around
..............................................
fernand said:
"Cannabis is unusual in that it produces less rebound than other psychoactive drugs. It makes sense that so many different receptors in the nervous system (and beyond) are being antagonized and agonized by so many different isomers of so many different compounds, with many of the actives and their metabolites being long acting and fat-soluble, hence accumulating and getting slowly released back into the bloodstream, that the net rebound is largely balanced out. It seems that's also why it's of such low acute toxicity, the heart is being accelerated by one effect, and slowed by another, and so on"
...........................
Cannabis is vastly different from opiates in that it acts on the endocannabinoid system which has receptors in almost all cells EXCEPT the brain cells that control respiration/ breathing.
Too many opiates stop ones breathing. Too much cannabis equals an uncomfortable whitey but no death. Opiates function completely and totally different from cannabis and will never be a safe drug

 

[cybrguy]

Somehow in my absence this was turned into a silly semantic argument about the meaning of words, and I have no interest in getting into it. This is, frankly, the wrong place for an argument about "other drugs" anyway. If I were to take a position it would be similar to MinnBobbers in that I was never criticizing the users, just the drugs. I'm really not sure why Gunky is having so much difficulty with that concept, but it isn't an argument I care to get in to here. I WILL address this, however:

This makes little sense to me. If you demonize a drug, what does that make users of that drug? Silky puppies?

It makes them VICTIMS. It is EASY for me to criticize heroin as it IS a DEMON DRUG. The only positive thing about it, which is also it's curse, is that it is cheap. It has NO redeeming value, and everyone I have ever known who used it (and became addicted as the vast majority do) is either dead, or was saved from the drug by family or friends or medical personnel who cared to and were able to make the herculean effort needed. Maybe you know some miracle stories of people who were able to walk themselves back from that precipice. I know none. All my heroin stories are sad ones.

Many derivatives of heroin have medical value and PROPERLY MANAGED either by medial staff or knowledgeable caretakers can be used effectively and helpfully for pain, but HUGE numbers of people on these drugs are NOT WELL MANAGED and end up becoming ADDICTS where the drug is in charge rather than them and THAT is a serious problem that needs to be addressed BY THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY not the court system. Addiction is a medical problem, not a legal one, and needs to be treated that way. These people are VICTIMS of a bad drug and horrible policy and only by putting our arms around these folks will the situation get better. Putting them in jail solves nothing. And allowing heroin to be cheap and accessible is what assures that this problem isn't going away any time soon and more victims will be created every day...

Can we get back to Marijuana?

Looking back I see I was the one who brought alcohol and opioids into this thread but I meant it in contrast, not to start a policy discussion. So, My Bad.

 

[Gunky]

Look at all the quasi-religious language involved here: demons, witches, "fallen under the wily spell of a killer drug". WTF, Are we all animists here? To demonize is to cast something into some extreme, absolute place. It is to ignore all subtlety and nuance and go all black and white. It's a panic reaction and is not helpful. It is a vast oversimplification - that's evil! - of a much more complex situation. It's a war-on-shit, zero tolerance mentality which doesn't help.

The amusing thing here is the very people proclaiming 'opiates are the debbil!' have probably benefited greatly from codeine after dental work. What a relief that little demon was, eh?

 

[grokit]

Letting any "addictive" substance take over your life is the pinnacle of indoctrinated powerlessness.

I say let people have whatever they want legally and safely, and let natural selection take its course.

Opiates and mmj are not opposites, and can be complimentary when used as prescribed. The opiates can kill you and that's a big difference, like taking 13 aspirin you won't be able to call anybody in the morning.

 

[MinnBobber]

No witches here gunky, except your personal definition of demonize = "witch hunt". No such definition, sorry
Demonize = cast as bad or threatening.
Killing 25,000 a year = bad or threatening in my book.
What's your cutoff for "bad status"?

Like cyber guy said, why are we arguing about "other drugs" .
This thread makes opiates out as something "in the same league as cannabis". Blasphemy !!!
We should be talking about cannabis and the endocannabinoid system which
is the key to almost all human maladies--physical, mental, emotional.

 

[cybrguy]

Gunky. Can I assume that English is not your first language? Or do you have a lot of Wiccan friends or something? You are attributing meaning to words that their dictionary definitions don't.
But regardless and as I said, I have no problem demonizing (criticizing as valueless and destructive) heroin in its raw form. And while it has useful derivatives, even those must be properly managed or they are LIKELY to result in negative consequences that ruin lives.

Normally you and I are on the same page. We have found a place where we are reading different texts.

I'm outta this discussion.

 

[MinnBobber]

I'm outta this discussion.

X2-I'm outta this discussion too.

If one can't say a drug that kills 25,000 yearly is bad and threatening, then it's a bizarro world indeed.
And it's not black and white as it does have limited medical use. The trouble is that it's prescribed in almost unlimited fashion, opiates are handed out like candy.

Any new cannabis news happening to get back on track??
MN added "intractable pain" to our meager list of approved med cannabis conditions.
Hopefully our prescription painkiller deaths will drop by 25% like in other states BUT
our med cannabis costs are so high--patients may stay on opiates for financial reasons

 

[Gunky]

Do I have to draw a cartoon with somebody pointing at a demon and somebody pointing at a witch? Duh! And no fair saying you're done talking about something then talking some more, then saying you're done...

'Demonic' is not a scientific term. It isn't a policy, it's an emotional outburst of mistaken moralizing. Demonizing certain drugs and their addicts does not help, in fact it is a big part of the problem and the reason drugs result in death.

 

[CuckFumbustion]

DEA eases restrictions on cannabidiol research
Hers's the latest from the Weed blog. Watch for stealth legislation at the end of this year/next years proposed budget and the end of Obama's presidency.

Justice Department suspends abusive asset forfeiture program – for now

US Postpones Payments to Police in Asset Forfeiture Program

The feds are making it a lot less profitable for local police to take your stuff

But they're not doing it out of moral conviction. It's just for temporary budgetary reasons.

Edit -these are actually 4 separate news links that were not meant to read like it is 1 large link .

 

[CarolKing]

Cannabis Decrim Law Takes Effect in Texas’ Most Populous County on Friday
News

December 27, 2015

by TheJointBlog

Beginning Friday, January 1st, the first-time possession of up to two ounces of cannabis will no longer result in an arrest and criminal charge in Harris County, the most populous county in Texas. Harris County is the third most populous county in the entire United States.

The new policy was put forth by Harris County District Attorney Devon Anderson, who is calling it the First Chance Intervention Program. Under this program, those caught possessing up to two ounces of cannabis will no longer be arrested, charged with a criminal offense and imprisoned for up to six months. Instead, they’ll be given a citation and mandated to attend a diversion program.


“It minimizes the administrative burdens that officers face when they file charges; it reduces the cost for prosecution and court proceedings; and of course it gives the offender an opportunity to have a completely clean record”, says Anderson.

Anderson says that although the policy only applies for first time offenders, that may change in the near future.

“And after I saw these [stats], I said, hey, let’s look at what the recidivism rate would be for a second offender or a third offender,” Anderson said. “So we’re going to look at that.”

According to the most recent U.S. Census Bureau report, Harris County has a population of over 4 million, which is more than the entire population of 24 states, including Oregon (3.9 million) and Oklahoma (3.8 million).

– TheJointBlog

 

[Gunky]

http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...ug_testing_is_widespread_but_ineffective.html

 

[cybrguy]

I post this for informational purposes only. It is interesting, but that is all I'll give it. And the study with 43 participants is way too small to be useful. The good news from this is really that more and more studies are now possible with MJ getting more acceptance and legality and the chance of good scientific research is much greater. Sadly much research is done by amateurs...

How Does Marijuana Affect the Brain and Behavior? Here's What Recent Studies Say

By Jessica Eggert 2 hours ago


Stoners have a reputation for being exceptionally mellow, but a recent study of the effects of marijuana use on daily behavior may suggest otherwise. According to researchers from Yale University of Medicine and the Pennsylvania State University, the study found a positive short-term correlation between marijuana use and hostile and impulsive behavior.

"Marijuana use is associated with changes in impulse control and hostility in daily life," according to the study, published in March. Researchers found that participants were more aggressive on days they used marijuana, and the following day, than on days they didn't get high.

The study analyzed 43 participants' marijuana, alcohol, tobacco use and hostile and impulsive behavior daily for 14 days using random effects models. Scientists found that marijuana use alone, without the alcohol and tobacco combination, increased impulsive and hostile behavior on the day participants used the drug and the day after.

The study was brief, but due to the results and increased recreational marijuana use, researchers believe the topic warrants further research.

A 2012 study in Biological Psychiatry found that weed can cause anxiety for regular users during periods of withdrawal and puts those with genetic tendencies at risk for developing schizophrenia, Cosmopolitan reported. Some of the alleged negative side effects of marijuana can be reduced if it's legal, regulated and tested by health officials, according to marijuana advocates. "People are used to buying weed on the black market with no idea about quality," deputy director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws Paul Armentano told Cosmopolitan. "As consumers get more sophisticated, they'll demand higher quality and better testing."

Another study on the effects of marijuana use published in the Psychology of Addictive Behaviors in September showed that the drug had an indirect negative relationship with grades among a cohort of college students. The study showed students who smoked more went to class less and therefore received relatively lower grade point averages than those who didn't engage in marijuana use.

In November, a survey of police officers across the United States conducted by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration showed that 6% of the 1,000 officers surveyed reported marijuana use as the biggest drug threat. However, as of 2014, no one had died from marijuana use alone.

 

[lwien]

...the study found a positive short-term correlation between marijuana use and hostile and impulsive behavior.

Putting all prejudices aside for a moment, has anyone here EVER seen anyone that has been high on cannabis being hostile because they were high? I realize that anecdotal evidence doesn't mean much but in the 40 years that I have consumed bud and been around thousands of others who have as well, I have never seen anyone become hostile because they consumed cannabis.

 

[cybrguy]

Putting all prejudices aside for a moment, has anyone here EVER seen anyone that has been high on cannabis being hostile because they were high? I realize that anecdotal evidence doesn't mean much but in the 40 years that I have consumed bud and been around thousands of others who have as well, I have never seen anyone become hostile because they consumed cannabis.

I'm with ya 100% on that. I have seen lots of stupid things, but NEVER hostile things I could attribute to the MJ. AAMOF, I have used MJ to chill angry friends quite often. And if I am pissed off I will often get high SPECIFICALLY to treat my own anger.

I kinda hate to have my name on that quote above as I don't buy it one bit.

 

[rayski]

You talk about luck. I guess I'm lucky I got out of Woodstock with only a few scratches.
Maybe it's the new high potency stuff that's causing the hostility. Or maybe the newer, higher potency stuff wasn't so potent. That would make me hostile.