Cannabis and the treatment of depression in PTSD

[CANtalk]

https://globalnews.ca/news/6131802/cannabis-depression-ptsd/

Published article source
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0269881119882806

 

[MinnBobber]

Thanks for the link,
Although it is not a gold standard study, like a double blind placebo type, it did examine medical records for
24,000 Canadians so N is big and it certainly shows it is likely that cannabis helps with PTSD depression.

Since cannabis acts thru boosting your endocannabinoid systems, it shouldn't be a surprise that it helps the PTSD, including the depression element.

It does that for so many. I was just researching cannabis for macular degeneration and there was an interesting learning moment. Depression is a common element with macular degen patients. Cannabis helps the main mac degen physical elements AND the depression element.

...............................................................................................
Anxiously awaiting update from Israeli study on PTSD. Over a year ago, the study was under way and early reports were of
great results so far. I can't find any updates though.

It is amazing that cannabis can help with "remembering too much" / PTSD and "remembering too little"/ dementia.
It pumps up your ECS to do its job.

We pushed and got PTSD added to elig conditions for med cannabis. However, only a few can afford the MN pricing!

 

[biohacker]

I have used cannabis to treat PTSD for many, many years and can only offer my own personal experience. As many of you know I also have zero biases toward cannabis/THC and don't feel that it's completely a benign drug, and has pros/cons like many psychotropic substances that play with brain chemistry. Dosage is crucial. It can definitely help in many ways, but overdo it and it can make my symptoms MUCH worse. So much worse that it's actually better dealing with the PTSD symptoms, which is why I decided to stop using it nearly two months ago. I hope to use it once again in the far future at dosages that don't flare up my symptoms. I don't see any other way other than micro dosing in moderation.

 

[uncanni]

I don't think much of anything has a lasting impact on my ptsd/depression: when it hits, it hits, and I have to ride it out. I still enjoy getting high, but it's different. A lot of times when I'm in the valley I use it to help sleep. I make tincture from my home grown weed, and it's amazingly relaxing. Puts me to sleep on a magic carpet.

But it never alleviates a bout of ptsd which is, by definition, of a certain duration.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

I don't think much of anything has a lasting impact on my ptsd/depression: when it hits, it hits, and I have to ride it out. I still enjoy getting high, but it's different. A lot of times when I'm in the valley I use it to help sleep. I make tincture from my home grown weed, and it's amazingly relaxing. Puts me to sleep on a magic carpet.

But it never alleviates a bout of ptsd which is, by definition, of a certain duration.

Would you say it has any effect on the likelihood that a PTSD bout will occur? As in, do they occur as frequently when you are buzzed?

 

[uncanni]

Would you say it has any effect on the likelihood that a PTSD bout will occur? As in, do they occur as frequently when you are buzzed?

Occurrances that trigger lasting bouts of depression or ptsd come from what's going on in my world. Different things trigger these responses in different people, so I'd have to say that it has nothing to do with whether or not I'm vaping Cannabis.

 

[Tranquility]

Don't know if it helps, but a lot of people seem to use it to self-medicate.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/12/191209131956.htm

The prevalence of cannabis, or marijuana, use in the United States increased from 2005 to 2017 among persons with and without depression and was approximately twice as common among those with depression in 2017. The findings, which are published in Addiction, come from a survey-based study of 728,691 persons aged 12 years or older.

"Perception of great risk associated with regular cannabis use was significantly lower among those with depression in 2017, compared with those without depression, and from 2005 to 2017 the perception of risk declined more rapidly among those with depression. At the same time, the rate of increase in cannabis use has increased more rapidly among those with depression," said corresponding author Renee Goodwin, PhD, MPH, of Columbia University and The City University of New York.

The prevalence of past 30-day cannabis use among those with depression who perceived no risk associated with regular cannabis use was much higher than that among those who perceived significant risk associated with use (38.6% versus 1.6%, respectively).

Certain groups appeared more vulnerable to use. For instance, nearly one third of young adults (29.7%) aged 18-25 with depression reported past 30-day use.

In 2017, the prevalence of past month cannabis use was 18.9% among those with depression and 8.7% among those without depression. Daily cannabis use was common among 6.7% of those with depression and among 2.9% of those without.
​

 

[Madri-Gal]

I don't think I would have made it that first year after the trauma without cannabis and vaping. It helped me eat, sleep, deal with intrusive memories, flashbacks and nightmares. I don't know how to seperate out depression from everything else involved in PTSD. I just vaped and held on.

 

[uncanni]

I don't know how to seperate out depression from everything else involved in PTSD. I just vaped and held on.

I don't think there is a separation between PTSD, depression & anxiety. I mean, PTSD always involves the two other states or feelings. And I agree: Cannabis attenuates both of them. AND helps a lot w/ understanding dreams.

 

[Madri-Gal]

I don't think there is a separation between PTSD, depression & anxiety. I mean, PTSD always involves the two other states or feelings. And I agree: Cannabis attenuates both of them. AND helps a lot w/ understanding dreams.

Yes, exactly. I couldn't seperate it out. My dreams aren't particularly understandable ( though someone will try to argue against my word), but they are less vivid and bloody.

 

[uncanni]

Yes, exactly. My dreams aren't particularly understandable, but they are less vivid and bloody.

Yes, they are completely understandable, once you learn to understand the language of your dream. It amazes me how it translates and creates images for the poetry of my unconscious.

If the actual incident was not bloody, and the vividness is diminishing, it would suggest to me that you're entering into another phase of processing the trauma. I mean, to me this stuff is the work of a lifetime, but it's the most valid and rewarding work there is; it's what liberates us, frees us to live in the present moments. Keep processing, girl! ;-}

 

[Madri-Gal]

Yes, they are completely understandable, once you learn to understand the language of your dream. It amazes me how it translates and creates images for the poetry of my unconscious.

If the actual incident was not bloody, and the vividness is diminishing, it would suggest to me that you're entering into another phase of processing the trauma. I mean, to me this stuff is the work of a lifetime, but it's the most valid and rewarding work there is; it's what liberates us, frees us to live in the present moments. Keep processing, girl! ;-}

No. My dreams are mine, and it is for me to know if they are understandable or not. I've read books, taken classes, etc. so it is not a correct assumption that I am ignorant. They are less vivid because of the cannabis. When I went on a T- break, they were as vivid as ever, and every bit as bloody. No need to debate about my dreams, but I appreciate your support. If you want to talk about your dreams I fully support your being an expert.

 

[uncanni]

No. My dreams are mine, and it is for me to know if they are understandable or not. I've read books, taken classes, etc. so it is not a correct assumption that I am ignorant. They are less vivid because of the cannabis. When I went on a T- break, they were as vivid as ever, and every bit as bloody. No need to debate about my dreams, but I appreciate your support. If you want to talk about your dreams I fully support your being an expert.

I NEVER assumed that you were ignorant!!! I think I meant that, if the unconscious were easy to understand, we wouldn't need one!!

When you refer to the kinds of personal, intimate issues you have brought up on a public forum, it should not surprise you that someone enters the dialogue. I had a friend who went through a severe trauma 25 years ago, and as she processed it with her therapist, her nightmares transformed. The very essence of nightmare is severe and unresolved anxiety. The recurring nightmare is always transformed as the anxiety and the trauma are resolved.

 

[TheThriftDrifter]

@Madri-Gal I appreciate your sharing, it's an amazing herb that seems to help many of us as we journey through our lives. I get a real buzz seeing the relief cannabis can bring to others and myself(no pun intended) So yeah, keep on vaping and holding on.

 

[lauri melissa]

Hello everyone! I have PTSD and anxiety disorder. I have had to deal with it nearly fifty years, I am going to be sixty next month. I was abused as a child and later with the same people, my family. Needless to say, PTSD is not just a personality disorder. It is a physical disorder. I have problems with my Vagas nerve in my chest and at times, becoming unconscious. I have been using weed since I was thirteen years old back in 1973! I think it probably saved my life. For the last thirty years I have therapy and meds. But, remember back in the day they just didn't get. Cannabis is part of my therapy. I use it to focus when I am in pain so I can meditate. I also have a severe spinal disease. This way I will never have to use opioids. Thank goodness for Mother Earth and her wonderful gift. Vape on!!

 

[lauri melissa]

Hello everyone! I have PTSD and anxiety disorder. I have had to deal with it nearly fifty years, I am going to be sixty next month. I was abused as a child and later with the same people, my family. Needless to say, PTSD is not just a personality disorder. It is a physical disorder. I have problems with my Vagas nerve in my chest and at times, becoming unconscious. I have been using weed since I was thirteen years old back in 1973! I think it probably saved my life. For the last thirty years I have therapy and meds. But, remember back in the day they just didn't get it. Cannabis is part of my therapy. I use it to focus when I am in pain so I can meditate. I also have a severe spinal disease. This way I will never have to use opioids. Thank goodness for Mother Earth and her wonderful gift. Vape on!!

 

[Madri-Gal]

I NEVER assumed that you were ignorant!!! I think I meant that, if the unconscious were easy to understand, we wouldn't need one!!

When you refer to the kinds of personal, intimate issues you have brought up on a public forum, it should not surprise you that someone enters the dialogue. I had a friend who went through a severe trauma 25 years ago, and as she processed it with her therapist, her nightmares transformed. The very essence of nightmare is severe and unresolved anxiety. The recurring nightmare is always transformed as the anxiety and the trauma are resolved.

I don't care if someone enters the dialogue. I protest if someone tries to be an expert on my experience. My nightmares are something I know quite a bit about. I'm glad your friend had a positive transformation. So did I, when I started vaping. Nightmares can be brought on by physical pain, brain injury, etc. by the way, not just anxiety, and "always" isn't always. It's kind of like "Never. I love therapy as much as the next person, but it didn't reduce the nightmares. I also don't have 25 more years to devote to therapy before I get a good night's sleep.
I always enjoy your input, @uncanni . You have a wonderful brain, and a way with words.
@lauri melissa , welcome to FC. I hope you are as happy here as I have been.

 

[BestBuds]

@Madri-Gal I wish you all the comfort and peace possible for you. The things some people endure are truly heart breaking.

Hello everyone! I have PTSD and anxiety disorder. I have had to deal with it nearly fifty years, I am going to be sixty next month. I was abused as a child and later with the same people, my family. Needless to say, PTSD is not just a personality disorder. It is a physical disorder. I have problems with my Vagas nerve in my chest and at times, becoming unconscious. I have been using weed since I was thirteen years old back in 1973! I think it probably saved my life. For the last thirty years I have therapy and meds. But, remember back in the day they just didn't get it. Cannabis is part of my therapy. I use it to focus when I am in pain so I can meditate. I also have a severe spinal disease. This way I will never have to use opioids. Thank goodness for Mother Earth and her wonderful gift. Vape on!!

Same here. For a lot of the framework stuff anyway. I deal with PTSD, Depression, anxiety, and chronic pain issues (go figure ) Cannabis has been a game changing medicine for me.

 

[Madri-Gal]

@Madri-Gal I wish you all the comfort and peace possible for you. The things some people endure are truly heart breaking.

Same here. For a lot of the framework stuff anyway. I deal with PTSD, Depression, anxiety, and chronic pain issues (go figure ) Cannabis has been a game changing medicine for me.

Thank you, @BestBuds. It sounds like you are dealing with a lot.

 

[lauri melissa]

When the public has a better understanding of what PTSD is, Traumatic Brain Injury, they will see the disorder is not just mental. TBI transforms the brain, PTSD affects the Braca region of the brain. When I learned of this, I was blown away. So many questions were answered. I am grateful for all the tools I have to enable me the power to live with this. Knowledge is power!! I am feeling very comfortable in this space at FC. Namaste!!

 

[BestBuds]

When the public has a better understanding of what PTSD is, Traumatic Brain Injury, they will see the disorder is not just mental. TBI transforms the brain, PTSD affects the Braca region of the brain. When I learned of this, I was blown away. So many questions were answered. I am grateful for all the tools I have to enable me the power to live with this. Knowledge is power!! I am feeling very comfortable in this space at FC. Namaste!!

Let's be clear, you don't need a TBI to have PTSD. I understand PTSD over some time can start to impair the brain, therefore resembling a TBI. But I never took shots to the head, no one ever connected.
I just want it to be clear, I know you were not saying the only way to have PTSD is to also have a TBI.

I honestly can say Cannabis has been a helper. When I am getting those emotional signals, cannabis can bring me back to earth and let me still engage in life. Mushrooms however have given me a more long term effect of wellbeing. I don't advocate for people to go around tripping. I grew my own, had a guide, set up a room, picked out music, I planned planned planned. Then I took
all those plans and tossed them out the window. It was a one time trip also. Mushrooms are the ultimate placebo (imo), and the placebo can be influenced by set and setting. This is what I have found out for myself and it has changed my life.

 

[Madri-Gal]

Thank you, @BestBuds for clarifying that PTSD doesn't involve Traumatic Brain Injury as a diagnostic criterion.
I was diagnosed with PTSD when I was younger and had therapy for years for it. At that time there wasn't much help except for therapy, but the PTSD slowly improved. Another traumatic event happened, then it was right back, full blown, with new and improved features and flash backs. Still no help but therapy and time. This time I didn't think I'd make it. I already knew how bad it could be, how long it could last, and the flashbacks were brutal to the point that I was in agony. The event/s were past. This time cannabis helped with medical issues, and made it possible to eat, sleep, and see what happened without it blinding me. Therapy was fine this time, and I liked my therapist, but it didn't help me through it. It was just a big ball of awful I was stuck in. Cannabis allowed me to be in it, move through it, integrate it, imagine a future where what happened was in the past and not still feeling like a current event.
Any other repeat PTSD sufferers? That is, have you been diagnosed more than once? Did you use cannabis each time? If not, was there a difference when you did use it? I'm aware that it might not help help everyone, but I am thankful it helped me.

 

[lauri melissa]

What I was saying is that PTSD is a truama to the brain hence TBI. You do not have to have a physical blow to the head for a trauma to the brain! PTSD distorts the shape of the Braca region of the brain. Check out Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk, father of PTSD. I am grateful for the true explanation of this disorder. Knowledge is power!

 

[lauri melissa]

Please read "The Body Keeps the Score" by Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk. And remember that TBI is not caused only by a blow to the head!! And yes, PTSD is a trauma to the brain.

 

[Madri-Gal]

What I was saying is that PTSD is a truama to the brain hence TBI. You do not have to have a physical blow to the head for a trauma to the brain! PTSD distorts the shape of the Braca region of the brain. Check out Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk, father of PTSD. I am grateful for the true explanation of this disorder. Knowledge is power!

The very definition of Traumatic Brain Injury is brain dysfunction caused by an outside force, such as a blow to the head. It is a different sort of trauma. PTSD can change areas if the brain, but that isn't at all the same as traumatic brain injury, as it wasn't from a sudden blow. It requires different treatment. Both PTSD and TBI are diagnostic terms for use in medical settings. They are well defined. If you enter a medical facility with TBI you will get treatment for that condition that isn't appropriate or necessary for PTSD. TBI also isn't needed for a diagnosis of PTSD. It's not required at all. The brain changes from PTSD happen over time.
Say I get raped, horrible event, shouldn't happen to anyone, but I show signs of PTSD soon after. I don't have to wait until brain changes occur for a diagnosis of PTSD. We don't even know what percentage of PTSD sufferers have these changes, as we don't look at every brain of every sufferer. Can you have PTSD without brain injury? Yes.
Can and do brain changes often occur? Yes. Do we then take a term that means injury from an sudden outside force and change it to reflect the much slower process that might occur from PTSD in some cases? Then what term do we then use for say, a head injury from a car crash? A new term would have to be used for injury from a sudden blow to the head.
Obviously, if the trauma is a sudden blow to the head you have a double whammy, but that just gets you a dual diagnosis.
I understand PTSD can change the brain over time. So can poison, bad diet, chemicals from work environment, disease, etc. That's why we have diagnosis with specific definitions to differentiate conditions for treatment. Medical personnel can see a term and know what they are dealing with. Blow to the head? No. Not TBI. Traumatic event? Yes. Look for PTSD.