Cannabinoids and terpenes

[Quetzalcoatl]

Sticks is being a bit of a stickler (I'm kidding! ) and recommended we move discussion of cannabinoids and terpenes to a new thread.

Some interesting reads to get us situated.

http://www.cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/2001-03-04-7.pdf

You'll see acetylcholine mentioned in the above article, wikipedia here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylcholine

http://www.hightimes.com/read/talking-terpenes

http://terpenes.weebly.com/

Our own vaporpedia entry on vaporization temperatures with correlating effects:

http://www.vaporpedia.com/wiki/Vaporizing_Effects_by_Temperature

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3165946/

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

It's definitely not just the flavours. The nature of vapourization means that you are getting some of even the high temperature volatiles at low temperatures, just not much. The profile, as @lwien rightly points out, varies depending on your technique. I don't think there's much doubt that there's a synergistic effect at work when cannabis is vapourized. Studies such as Taming THC: potential cannabis synergy and phytocannabinoid-terpenoid entourage effects are trying to determine the workings of that synergy and not whether it exists at all. I'm not sure if this is the one you had in mind, but is along the same lines.

SliM had problems appreciating the Sublimator because it would vape off the terps before he could hit it and he noticed the effects he was chasing weren't as prevalent. It might be why that unit gives such clear head highs...maybe the terps interact strongly with the couchlock effects.

Another thing to consider is what I call a 'vape signature.' You know how you can use a vape for a while and then weeks later hit a new vape and it hits you really hard? I think that is related to each vape's unique combination of heating methods (conduction, convection, radiation) and the timing of the heat. I didn't really start to notice this until I amassed a lot of vapes, But each one gives a slightly different effect, some more so than others like the Sublimator. I like to have multiple vapes because I think it helps me keep my tolerance low with the ones I use the most.

Anyhow, I love this kind of discussion, but we should move it to a new thread if we want to continue it.

 

[honorface]

Damn. I'd love to get some terpene essential oil for my beard!

I think it would be neat to breed a strain that has the lowest concentration of sedative compounds, it would be perfect for vaping.

The nature of vapourization means that you are getting some of even the high temperature volatiles at low temperatures, just not much

It seems that heating from room temp to 137C yields the same amount of vaporization, so by just not much, he really means barely anything. This is because the most volatile of the compounds will have already broken down into gaseous form. I also found out that you cannot base this off of smell because our noses can detect even the slightest change in release of ppm of terpenoids. terpenoids and other smelly/flavor compounds also compound each other, meaning it takes a VERY HIGH ppm to reach a max smelliness.

Also a lot of the carcinogenic compounds fall into this category of 'need to reach volatilization temp' to produce an even nominal amount of the compound.

 

[pakalolo]

You raised some important points that support my claim that we aren't really looking at a study here (like lack of control groups, blind testing, quantitative measures and so on).

"Ten years after launching HortaPharm, Watson tested his hypothesis in an experiment that compared the subjective effects of 100 percent THC to lesser amounts in terpene-infused cannabis resin. The consensus among Watson and several associates: Terpene-infused resin with 50 percent THC was more potent by dry weight than an equivalent amount of pure THC."

IMO that's closer to an informal test between friends. It even says things like "subjective effects" and "consensus", neither of which will pass muster in a true scientific discussion. The very fact that there is a consensus suggests the data is compromised.

The physiological effects of THC and the various flavor inducing fractions (or lack thereof in their case) is established medical fact. No serious discussion I know of going on there? We know how THC effects the user at that level.

Reality is what folks believe, of course, but science is also science. I think this article speaks to subjective opinions not useful data. I'd be willing to bet under those conditions if you gave them THC free samples that still tasted like the real thing and told them that it had THC in it they'd get off. Like I said, in college we got a guys roomie stoned on Lipton Tea......

You get just as drunk on Bourbon as Vodka.

Fun topic.

OF

The article I linked isn't a study either, I should have looked at it more carefully. It's a summary and review of existing studies on the topic, and there's enough leads in there to keep someone busy for a long time.

I don't think anyone denies the potential of a placebo effect, but there's no reason to attribute their consensus solely to it. The review I linked cites several studies that show a synergy exists between THC and terpenoids. The experiment referred to isn't described so we don't know whether it was a double-blind, for example. The description of effects as subjective is no reason to jump to the placebo conclusion, since any measure of effects must be largely subjective.

 

[honorface]

purely opinion but I have personally seen friends say they get super high off of dank smelling middies while I'm just like da fuq. I'm not prone to the placebo effect at all.

 

[OF]

I don't think anyone denies the potential of a placebo effect, but there's no reason to attribute their consensus solely to it. The review I linked cites several studies that show a synergy exists between THC and terpenoids. The experiment referred to isn't described so we don't know whether it was a double-blind, for example. The description of effects as subjective is no reason to jump to the placebo conclusion, since any measure of effects must be largely subjective.

Understood. But the scientist in me knows that you have to prove it's not conditioned response or placebo effect, not the other way around. That's the way science works.

This can be done, but it needs to be done 'right' if it's to be taken seriously IMO. First step is it has to be a blind test......come on, a bunch of stoner buddies cook up the 'samples' then try them out in a group setting????? All they're going to find is what they expect to find..........that's not how science works.

OF

 

[Dafni]

Damn. I'd love to get some terpene essential oil for my beard!

couple years ago I built myself a steam distillation setup so I could get the essential oils out of my strains, kinda to conserve the flavors. What I got was mainly terps I guess. The stuff has all the flavor and zero psychedelics. I used it for cooking/flavoring. I still have some samples left, but you guys made me thinking about getting that setup going again, experiment with effects and such.

 

[honorface]

MMJ essential oil would that is primarily terpene would technically be legal if you could extract this list from it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Schedule_I_drugs_(US)#Cannabimimetic_agents