Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome

[C No Ego]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/merryjane.com/amp/the-curious-case-of-cannnabis-hyperemesis-syndrome

Azadirachtin seems to be the culprit. I've been dealing with some issues I never dealt with still since I came to a legal state. I'm very aware of this poison now. I picked up some herb today and that was the first ingredient, now I'm not sure if I use it or just get rid of it. This stuff worries me for sure

apperently neem oil and cannabis do not go together... and as the poster above mentioned- start smoking those combos and see what type of alchemical reaction occurs in your tummy...

IMO- vaping is different with pesticides than with smoking... in all honestly just like with the cannabinoids vaping delivers pesticides more cleanly too

 

[Zow237]

apperently neem oil and cannabis do not go together... and as the poster above mentioned- start smoking those combos and see what type of alchemical reaction occurs in your tummy...

IMO- vaping is different with pesticides than with smoking... in all honestly just like with the cannabinoids vaping delivers pesticides more cleanly too

yeah the problems got worse vaping. This is scary cuz this is everywhere. But I have the mthfr mutation so I don't filter toxins well or if at all. I luckily have a place that doesn't use any organic or non organic pesticides, 20 mins away

 

[invertedisdead]

apperently neem oil and cannabis do not go together... and as the poster above mentioned- start smoking those combos and see what type of alchemical reaction occurs in your tummy...

IMO- vaping is different with pesticides than with smoking... in all honestly just like with the cannabinoids vaping delivers pesticides more cleanly too

Because vaporizing causes less thermal degradation on the pesticides.

 

[olivianewtonjohn]

yeah the problems got worse vaping. This is scary cuz this is everywhere. But I have the mthfr mutation so I don't filter toxins well or if at all. I luckily have a place that doesn't use any organic or non organic pesticides, 20 mins away

I hope it works well for you. I really like that shop, alittle pricy but well worth it ("L'eagle" is their house strain that I have tried and love). Their edibles are top notch as well, I like the Love's oven Baklava.

 

[C No Ego]

Look into strains too maybe for this condition ?? Or, certain terp profiles mingling then adding Neem pesticide to that.......

We are mixing/grafting/cloning hybrid unknown/untested type combinations into cannabis strains and some terpenes do not get along well together etc...

Too, an effect on hunger example is THCv... thcv can be a hunger reducer and that shows its effects are different than say, delta 11-hydroxy or THC that cause a hunger response...

certain combos of all above with certain people and an allergic reaction maybe

 

[Alexis]

yeah the problems got worse vaping. This is scary cuz this is everywhere. But I have the mthfr mutation so I don't filter toxins well or if at all. I luckily have a place that doesn't use any organic or non organic pesticides, 20 mins away

Zow do you know about gelatin for detox support fir the liver? There is a specific type made by "Great Lakes- Collagen hydrolysate" or something. They do 2 types, this one is the green one.

Im allergic to them both, like nearly all supplements. But it is meant to be astonishing for liver and detox support and function, as well as muscular, cartillage tissue repair, performance, stamina etc. Good for recovery.
I know you are super knowlegable on these things anyway, and prob know all about this supplement and maybe have reasons to avoid it.

On topic (ish?) @C No Ego last summer we had a Think Different auto that had a rusty yellow leaf issue before flower. We brewed up Neem tea from wild leaves, and sprayed the whole plant.

It made it anyway, flowered great- 2 OZ of some anazing stuff. BUT- it had the most incredible distinctive scent throughout, standing out above the others. Really delightfully lemony and earthy. I just had an Elev8r bowl of it by chance.

I dont know if this phenotype (we had 3 diff phenos of Think Different, out of 3), or if the neem tea did some magic?

 

[C No Ego]

Zow do you know about gelatin for detox support fir the liver? There is a specific type made by "Great Lakes- Collagen hydrolysate" or something. They do 2 types, this one is the green one.

Im allergic to them both, like nearly all supplements. But it is meant to be astonishing for liver and detox support and function, as well as muscular, cartillage tissue repair, performance, stamina etc. Good for recovery.
I know you are super knowlegable on these things anyway, and prob know all about this supplement and maybe have reasons to avoid it.

On topic (ish?) @C No Ego last summer we had a Think Different auto that had a rusty yellow leaf issue before flower. We brewed up Neem tea from wild leaves, and sprayed the whole plant.

It made it anyway, flowered great- 2 OZ of some anazing stuff. BUT- it had the most incredible distinctive scent throughout, standing out above the others. Really delightfully lemony and earthy. I just had an Elev8r bowl of it by chance.

I dont know if this phenotype (we had 3 diff phenos of Think Different, out of 3), or if the neem tea did some magic?

the way you used it would be different than the pesticide made from it IMO... so many combos and variables to pin point for sure... nothing like handling your own plant to harvest later.

 

[Alexis]

the way you used it would be different than the pesticide made from it IMO... so many combos and variables to pin point for sure... nothing like handling your own plant to harvest later.

Yes of course I understand that entirely. I would not have used either neem oil, or tea, on the buds because I am personally bound to be allergic to it. I just thought it was a funnt coincidence how the plant turned into such a gorgeous intoxicating lemon cologne factory.

I do believe the neem tea played some part.

 

[just_the_flu]

Out of desperation, I visited a natropathic doctor (I use that term loosely - I've been to the "woo-woo" natropaths before and this doctor is not like that) who performed a few simple tests on my blood and stool to identify what is going on in my body. The results were both extremely informative and rather shocking. I've gone almost half a decade with an undiagnosed bacterial infection in my gut. In my case, this is an overgrowth of yeast, which is interacting with the sugars and carbohydrates that I eat to produce alcohol within my gut. The symptoms that this caused, coupled with my admitted use of pot, led my traditional doctors to take the path of least resistance and throw their hands up, saying I was just suffering from CHS.

...a common problem in the medical field... most doctors make quick assessments just to see more patients... mostly only addressing symptoms, not the causing issue...


...you seen a top notch doctor whom took the time to do some test and actually understand whats going on within your body and not come to quick conclusions based on your recreational life...




...my buddies brother went into emerge one day with a headache, the doctor looked at him and said "your hungover"... my buddys bro answered "i know what a hangover fees like and this is not one"... the doctor brushed him off sending him home (yes he looks like a drunk, and is, but not the point)... 2 days later his mother took him to the city (london ontario) and actual doctors looked at him and found out he had swelling in his brain and if they did not go to london that day he would have died that evening due to this swelling...



...moral of the story is Doctors don't know everything and some dont care to take the time to actually understand whats wrong with you, they are in the business of treating symptoms, not curing you... there is no repeat business with cures....

 

[Tranquility]

...moral of the story is Doctors don't know everything and some dont care to take the time to actually understand whats wrong with you, they are in the business of treating symptoms, not curing you... there is no repeat business with cures....

I think the problem is not so much the focus, but the knowledge. They have much more knowledge about the science of medicine in general. Patients have much more knowledge about themselves. This carries over into the clinical setting--especially when the patient is putting out effort.

For instance, during my wife's dying struggles from breast cancer, each doctor we'd see was an expert in cancer, breast cancer, radiomedicine etc. There is no way I could ever match them on their breadth of knowledge. But, I COULD match them on the depth.

How?

I didn't look into the studies on all cancer, I'd look into studies about the HER2+ receptor in patients with a Nottingham score of 9 with a Hispanic background and exposure to volatile chemicals at an earlier job and who recently had a miscarriage and, and, and, and and ALL the things I knew of her specifically.

You don't need to be a super-expert to look things up that apply to you. It is a lot harder when you are studying in general to gain knowledge that can apply to everyone.

Of course, the reason why a person can be better than an expert in a specific instance gets to the time issue. If the doctor had as much time to focus on my problems as I do, he'd be better both in breadth AND depth.

 

[Zow237]

I'll look into that supplement. I have a long journey now to detox this crap out. It's difficult to do this cuz I have a genetic mutation that prevents me from detoxing these harmful things out

 

[Gr8danger]

Hello! I mentioned this in a previous thread, about another subject although I want to get more info so I made this thread. Basically I just want to know what your thoughts are on CHS (cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome) And do you think we will ever even figure out what exactly is causing it in some people? I have really only heard of 1 not so educated study about it and they arent even sure if it is the cannabis. I think it is the pesticides used on cannabis that is causing it like neem or azadirachtin poisoning. Although I want to hear your opinion on it and I would love to hear if any of you guys have done any basic testing or experimentation on yourself for CHS! I hope we figure this out soon I keep worrying this is going to happen to me cannabis has helped me out so much I would hate having to give it up at some point:/

 

[Silver420Surfer]

Stop worrying. Why worry about something that hasn't affected you, and may not even exist? The amount of folks I have medicated with in my life versus those who think or claim CHS.....honestly, like several thousand to none ratio. Medicating going on 30+ yrs(Gotdammit that hurts to type that lol...OLD) and NEVER experienced that myself(even before shopping at a dispensary), nor anyone I know of. Nor anyone in the industry that I worked with nor any patients who shopped where I have worked.

How would you test or experiment on yourself? Better yet, WHY??!!

I assume ur not shopping at a dispensary, which leaves you at the mercy of who the hell knows whats in your meds unfortunately.

Call me stupid, but I don't believe that syndrome even exists.(yes I have read the lame anecdotes here or there from(more than likely, uninformed) doctors.

 

[pakalolo]

Call me stupid, but I don't believe that syndrome even exists.(yes I have read the lame anecdotes here or there from(more than likely, uninformed) doctors.

Calling you stupid would be against our rules, but I do question your compassion. Whether or not CHS exists, it's insensitive to use the term "lame" to label the stories of genuinely sick people seeking answers. I have one acquaintance who suffered from something that certainly seemed to be CHS. You might benefit from reading Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome: Diagnosis, Pathophysiology, and Treatment—a Systematic Review (Sorensen CJ, DeSanto K, Borgelt L, et al. J Med Toxicol. 2017;13(1):71–87).

 

[macbill]

A Perplexing Marijuana Side Effect Relieved by Hot Showers

Until recently the syndrome was thought to be uncommon or even rare. But as marijuana use has increased, emergency room physicians say they have been seeing a steady flow of patients with the telltale symptoms, especially in states where marijuana has been decriminalized and patients are more likely to divulge their drug use to physicians.

 

[chris 71]

i have a problem with calling it Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome . this would mean that it is caused by cannabinoids , as you point out steama it could be caused by something eles possibly pesticides or other products used to produce it . or who knows ?

which i think is wrong to do un till they can really show that it is caused by the cannabinoids .

 

[hibeam]

I think I have reacted very badly to neem oil twice now.

We bought some recommended to rid our dog of ear mites, and my husband tried it on a rash on his arm he thought might be the beginning of scabies. His rash cleared right up without incident.

I was the one who put a couple drops on our dog's withers and rubbed it in with my fingers. Within hours I felt flu-like symptoms and attributed it to the neem but my husband did not believe me. I had not carefully washed my hands because this stuff was sold as a topical to apply directly. This first time I got headache and mild stomach cramps later.

The second time about a month later our dog was scratching a lot so I put some more neem on her. I washed my hands but still felt sick. That night I had a dose, (20mg) of dispensary 9lb Hammer concentrate, vaped, which I use for occasional insomnia. I woke up with horrendous stomach cramps and dry heaves. I vaped some dispensary OG flower the next morning out of desperation and it relieved all my symptoms so I could eat a bit. Could the concentrate have had just enough neem residue to mix with my other exposure? Was it all from the dog remedy? I too have the mthfr toxin filtering problems. I know all the medicinal growers here in FL use neem. I want to try the concentrate again to see what will happen but the dog gets a shampoo first! I have not bathed her since that last application. (We are now using coconut oil and anise oil in the dog's ears for the mites and it works.)

 

[Alexis]

I think I have reacted very badly to neem oil twice now.

We bought some recommended to rid our dog of ear mites, and my husband tried it on a rash on his arm he thought might be the beginning of scabies. His rash cleared right up without incident.

I was the one who put a couple drops on our dog's withers and rubbed it in with my fingers. Within hours I felt flu-like symptoms and attributed it to the neem but my husband did not believe me. I had not carefully washed my hands because this stuff was sold as a topical to apply directly. This first time I got headache and mild stomach cramps later.

The second time about a month later our dog was scratching a lot so I put some more neem on her. I washed my hands but still felt sick. That night I had a dose, (20mg) of dispensary 9lb Hammer concentrate, vaped, which I use for occasional insomnia. I woke up with horrendous stomach cramps and dry heaves. I vaped some dispensary OG flower the next morning out of desperation and it relieved all my symptoms so I could eat a bit. Could the concentrate have had just enough neem residue to mix with my other exposure? Was it all from the dog remedy? I too have the mthfr toxin filtering problems. I know all the medicinal growers here in FL use neem. I want to try the concentrate again to see what will happen but the dog gets a shampoo first! I have not bathed her since that last application. (We are now using coconut oil and anise oil in the dog's ears for the mites and it works.)

Also look into diatomaceous earth for mites. Sorry to hear about your reactions I have serious allergies myself so I can empathize, and I sincerely hope you get to the bottom of it good luck.

 

[C No Ego]

I think I have reacted very badly to neem oil twice now.

We bought some recommended to rid our dog of ear mites, and my husband tried it on a rash on his arm he thought might be the beginning of scabies. His rash cleared right up without incident.

I was the one who put a couple drops on our dog's withers and rubbed it in with my fingers. Within hours I felt flu-like symptoms and attributed it to the neem but my husband did not believe me. I had not carefully washed my hands because this stuff was sold as a topical to apply directly. This first time I got headache and mild stomach cramps later.

The second time about a month later our dog was scratching a lot so I put some more neem on her. I washed my hands but still felt sick. That night I had a dose, (20mg) of dispensary 9lb Hammer concentrate, vaped, which I use for occasional insomnia. I woke up with horrendous stomach cramps and dry heaves. I vaped some dispensary OG flower the next morning out of desperation and it relieved all my symptoms so I could eat a bit. Could the concentrate have had just enough neem residue to mix with my other exposure? Was it all from the dog remedy? I too have the mthfr toxin filtering problems. I know all the medicinal growers here in FL use neem. I want to try the concentrate again to see what will happen but the dog gets a shampoo first! I have not bathed her since that last application. (We are now using coconut oil and anise oil in the dog's ears for the mites and it works.)

I've seen really good reports of neem oil getting rid of dry skin problems... some people are allergic though. I've always wondered about any interactions with cannabis cannabinoids and maybe neem interacts somehow effecting the stomach ( just guessing here??) .

 

[hibeam]

I've seen really good reports of neem oil getting rid of dry skin problems... some people are allergic though. I've always wondered about any interactions with cannabis cannabinoids and maybe neem interacts somehow effecting the stomach ( just guessing here??) .

My theory is neem kills off beneficial bacteria in the gut.

 

[shredder]

I've seen really good reports of neem oil getting rid of dry skin problems... some people are allergic though. I've always wondered about any interactions with cannabis cannabinoids and maybe neem interacts somehow effecting the stomach ( just guessing here??) .

Neem oil is used in both toothpaste and cosmetics. I doubt it's a culprit, and have yet to see anything but conjecture.

Having said that, there are some growers that spray neem or neem derived products on flowers. A big no no in my book, but it happens, along with other even more dangerous pesticides on flowers. I would not recommend anyone to spray anything on flowers to be consumed. And if flowers have that funky neem oil smell, don't use them.

As mj usage becomes more main stream I'm sure we will get answers, but until then choose your sources of mj very carefully. And stick to organic if at all possible. Even though neem oil can be organic, and afaik spraying it on flowers is not illegal, so it's up to us as consumers to demand safe products, and for growers to make it so. I really doubt our federal govt. will protect us, and state laws vary wildly from solid law based on science to almost nothing and zero enforcement.

 

[olivianewtonjohn]

Reading this thread it would seem like the cause of CHS is unclear. I heard an interesting discussion on the topic and after googling I am not so sure you guys are correct.

I unfortunately cannot find the exact spot of the podcast but he talks about CHS and how users of synthetic cannabinoids also can have CHS symptoms. This points to cannabinoids being the culprit.

Podcast (not sure how helpful it is without a time marker):

Papers on the topic:
https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(14)00566-7/pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23890687
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/criem/2014/167098/

 

[analytika]

I know this sounds kinda hair of the dog. But I'll ask anyway.

Anyone tried Delta-8 THC isolate -- the cannibus antiemetic powerhouse -- to stop an attack in progress?

 

[hibeam]

Reading this thread it would seem like the cause of CHS is unclear. I heard an interesting discussion on the topic and after googling I am not so sure you guys are correct.

I unfortunately cannot find the exact spot of the podcast but he talks about CHS and how users of synthetic cannabinoids also can have CHS symptoms. This points to cannabinoids being the culprit.

Podcast (not sure how helpful it is without a time marker):

Papers on the topic:
https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(14)00566-7/pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23890687
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/criem/2014/167098/

Thanks for the links! I found a readable discussion of the "landmark" spice case that features some lateral thinking about CHS in the comments:
https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/07/think-like-a-doctor-sweating-it-solved/

 

[shredder]

Thanks for the links! I found a readable discussion of the "landmark" spice case that features some lateral thinking about CHS in the comments:
https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/07/think-like-a-doctor-sweating-it-solved/

10 subjects, one using spice does not seem like an in depth study.