Can Synthetic Cannabinoids (JWH-018) Affect Cannabinoid Receptors?

[gettin lifted]

gettin lifted, have you tried regaining the high psychologically?
seems like in this whole topic you think it's tolerance(wch is a logical assumption), and as I mentioned in my earlier post I still don't understand tolerance
but I've got my problems wth it under control now I think, not by taking a tolerance break(I noticed that every time when I made serious plans for a tolerance break my tolerance was gone, my plans for tolerance weren't total abstinance tough but just quitting smoking by myself and only smoke with friends, since that's just a social ocassion, and every time I made serious plans I ended up in a nice sesh with friends that day and noticed I got really high quickly)
so that made me get the idea that since I can't understand tolerance from a physical point, I should try to look at it from a psychological point
I think my great trip on truffles also helped me a lot with it(altough the insights didn't came during the trip but the days after), and now I view weed different(well, I see it still the same eventually, but still my attitude has changed a bit)
I know enjoy it more and am less after a high but more undergo it, can't really explain it
side-effect is also I vape less now, but the more enjoyment out of the highs and toleranceproblems away happened before I started vaping less(reason I vaope less I'm now more caught up in the thing I'm doing/program I'm watching/game I'm playing and don't want to take a break)

when you were talking about truffles, did you mean like psychedelic truffles/philosopher stones? because taking a decent dose of truffles/mushrooms can actually lower your tolerance.

let me give you an easy break down on how tolerance works. when you smoke/vape you start to build up non psychoactive thc in your fat tissue. after a good build up of this your brain is signaled to down regulate the possible receptor sites. its basically a fail safe so you dont completely shut them all the way down.

as you work the thc out of your system your brain will be signaled to stop its defense mechanism and therefore will reopen sites.

hope that helped you.

 

[PoopMachine]

Sorry to hear about this. I bought about 6 bottles of the liquid JWH-018 before they outlawed it and we vape our herb with a drop or two on it when we really want to get vaked. At higher doses the stuff really will get you "too high" but at lower doses, its quite enjoyable.

Its too bad they outlawed it but just like everything else, if its fun, the government will find a way to get rid of it.

 

[TanzRemix]

let me give you an easy break down on how tolerance works. when you smoke/vape you start to build up non psychoactive thc in your fat tissue. after a good build up of this your brain is signaled to down regulate the possible receptor sites. its basically a fail safe so you dont completely shut them all the way down.

as you work the thc out of your system your brain will be signaled to stop its defense mechanism and therefore will reopen sites.

hope that helped you.

That is pretty useful and your thread is fascinating, but if the synthetic is water soluble how could it affect your tolerance through the above mechanism? That may be another can of worms altogether but to support some of your hypothesis the link should be established. Unless you're satisfied that the answer is the stronger synthetic molecules.D

 

[Koroz]

I wanted to apologize for a couple month necro but I felt it was important enough to mention. Hopefully the OP still reads this board.

I have experienced the same exact issue as stated above in the OP. I was a medical user in California and my wife had received the chance of a lifetime to work in NY at a hospital. Because part of my issues were related to OCD, and Paxil was causing me side effects (Making me pass the f' out every day at 4pm), I had always used Cannabis.

Now we get to NY and its illegal. The only thing I could find was brick @ insane prices so I heard about JWH-018 from a friend and gave it a go. I was hooked, but the tolerance build up was extreme. But this stuff wrecked me like budder wrecks me.. sitting on my couch wondering which way is reality. (no, not Cannabutter for cooking, the BC Budder from Budder King).

Fast forward a month. My starting dosage was the tip of a jewelers flathead (very tiny amount). With in a month I was up to almost 12 grams a day. My OCD reduction from using was gone, I started having extreme nose runs that would go on for 3-4 days and stop, then continue on again. It go so bad I would vomit at night from all the drainage going on into my stomach.

I only used it for the period of 5 months before I finally stopped because of the emotional break downs from it. My "mood" was more "drunk" then medicated when using it at that point also. I was VERY mad when I didn't have it in my system.

3 years later I move back to the West Coast and take a trip back home to Northern Cali. I buy a half oz of indoor super dank. I take the biggest rip of my life, thinking 3 years later man I am going to get ripped.


nothing. I tried mids with more indica/late flower harvest (Amber trichomes) and I get the muddy feeling stuck to my chair but nothing else. The OCD is still there, but my Crohns is gone. So I try something with a friend.

I take some meds he grew and sat down with an ounce. We sat until he couldn't smoke anymore and I wasn't even feeling a tingle. So I decided that I needed a tolerance break and quit for another week. I also self withdrew from Paxil (Don't do it!) thinking it might be part of the issue. It wasn't. Now my depression is back, OCD is back, Im draining from the nose constantly for the last 3 years, my mood swings hit overdrive and I can't get medicated with natural cannabis to boot.

Here is where it gets interesting kinda, so I finally give up and decide that its just the way it is and since a lot of my Cannabis use is related to Crohns and not the "recreational" effects I didn't mind much.. but I missed it. One day I go over to a friends house to watch a movie and help him medicate (he has extreme seizures and spams and can't hold his own smoking/vape device) and I take one hit of some honestly weak stuff and I got so high I couldn't frigging move.

I didn't want to talk to anyone, because the world was so contorted when people spoke I just had sensor overload. He noted I started sweating really bad and just got pale white with my mouth open for a few minutes. I was high like that for 3 hours and then it just stopped.

In the last 4 years that is the only time Ive gotten a reaction from Cannabis even after a 4 year total "break". I too this day still use Cannabis because it still stops the nausea and pain associated with my disease but the OCD protection, the overall "happiness" and "high" from Cannabis have all been long gone since I over did the JWH (Yes, I over did it which is probably what led to my issues but documenting for those reading regardless).

Just food for thought, OP, if you have found a way to reverse the effects please let me know, ive tried medibles, dried cannabis, oils, keif, hash... I haven't tried budder again since I can't seem to find it.. but nothing gets me back to where I was pre-jwh.

 

[wake n blake]

I hate this stuff with a passion... I've never enjoyed the high... and my dad is addicted to it. He's been on probation for almost 2 years now, and has overly medicated himself with it daily... DAILY.

He acts like a different person... some nights he cant' even talk... it's similar to someone who drank way too much.
He won't make sense half the time... My best friend's dad was diagnosed with schizophrenia, and my dad's odd behavior is very much similar to a schizophrenic's patient--at times.
The coughing... after a year of extensive use, he's began coughing so hard some mornings he vomits... and it's a bad, chokey-death kind of vomit. Prior, the coughing wasn't much of an issue as he quit smoking years ago and the cannabis didn't make him cough too horribly bad.
His motor skills get all screwey... I've seen him ripped and reaching for a pop and totally miss the can.
His emotions are confused... he doesn't respond in normal ways to normal scenarios... he forgets how to act.
I've had entire conversations with him where he stared at me, nodding as if in agreement, and then remembers NOTHING I've said not even a minute after I'm done talking.
The smell... what it does to his breath is ungodly... and he's unemployed, so I can just imagine him smoking this shit in between interviews and blowing the interview because he smalls like he ate rancid garbage.
He also has little to no attention span anymore... He cant' watch movies... he only flips through TV channels and stares at the TV in the garage while he smokes shit-tons of this trash... seriously, like he'll buy those 4g bags and be done with it in a day... or a day and a half... he's a heavy, heavy user of synthetics.
He used to read sometimes, and he won't do that anymore, either.
He doesn't do anything, really... he just sleeps all day, wakes up around 3-7pm and within minutes is lighting up his first bowl... he can't even eat food without taking a few hits prior.
The scariest part is, though, HE WON'T QUIT. I don't think he can.
I've literally had heart-felt talks with him where I drop the cliche line of "I just want my dad back... you dont act like you anymore" and he says "sorry" and turns right around and loads another bowl of this fucking poison trash... it's like a slap to the face.
The he had a stroke... he has diabetes, but the doctors could never exactly point out the cause of his stroke... the areas affected in the brain were too spread out to localize the cause, I guess...
HE'S STILL SMOKING THE SHIT.
And who knows how the synthetic stuff reacts with all the assortments of pills he takes for his heart, diabetes, and whatever else they gave him when he left the hospital in January.
We've had interventions... he's made empty promises of quitting... he can't even go one night... come 2,3am, he'll take off to 7-11 to buy another bag of it... there are some serious addictive properties that people aren't addressing.
And now I'm reading about cancer and comas... he's off probation in July, but I honestly think that he'll smoke weed and won't get off on it so great, like our friend who initiated this post, but I'm fairly certain he'll remain with synthetic when he realizes that nugs don't work for him anymore.

I know this is part venting, and I apologize for the emotional post, but I hope people read this and see what this stuff really does to individuals and their families... my mom almost left... it's been disgustingly dramatic... all the while, he refuses to take a break.

I hope this deters some people from using it... just because it's legal doesn't mean it's safe or safely regulated.

meanwhile, we have to vape in hidden corners with a substance that's been proven to help people...

it's so aggravating.

anyways, thanks for all the info you all posted... I've got some print outs from bluelight and other websites about synthetic testing and effects on the mind and body... I'm hoping I can wave some numbers around and get him to stop... he's got until July, then he can go back to smoking organic... maybe if he quits now, the couple months of downtime will allow his receptors to balance out or something.

 

[gettin lifted]

i sure appreciate reading other stories like mine. it was quite the battle to get back to where i am now. i took way too many breaks ranging from a few days to a few weeks and i am finally getting high on herbs again. please note im not 100% back to where i was pre-jwh. i also only used it for a month straight and that was enough to ruin my cannabis high for months.

im taking the next two weeks off however (until 4/20) and hoping to get that first time high again.

Koroz: all i can tell you is to try to abstain from marijuana for at least 2 weeks to a month. perhaps youre still not getting the highs you want because you still haven't allowed your receptors to rebuild. overloading your receptors with cannabinoid will turn them off, much like a lightswitch. however overloading on the monthly basis like you did SHUTS down your receptor sites, when this happens it takes much much longer to reopen them. hope that makes sense.

wake n blake: sorry to hear about your fathers issues. i did notice after my month of use i didn't want to stop as well, it was addictive to me also. keep pressing him and get him help. i know they made these jwh blends and etc illegal here in florida at the beginning of the year, didnt know it was still available in other states. maybe the kicker for your pops will be the illegalization of it. then he'll have to quit because it will be near impossible to get more and much easier to get the green we all know and love.

let me know if i can help you guys farther, i know how discouraging the whole situation can be. :/

 

[StickyShisha2]

a good friend of mine just got a few ounces of herb that i think may be sprayed with a synthetic.

to me, it smelled a bit "green" and lacked any trichomes. but boy oh boy did it mess us up. i vaped some and he smoked some. the high felt wrong though.

i wouldn't take any of it from him and now he doesn't want to use it either.

i understand that some of the synthetics are water soluble, so we are going to "water cure" some and then maybe make BHO from it.


do you think its possible that someone already extracted from this herb and then sprayed it with a synth??

 

[gettin lifted]

a good friend of mine just got a few ounces of herb that i think may be sprayed with a synthetic.

to me, it smelled a bit "green" and lacked any trichomes. but boy oh boy did it mess us up. i vaped some and he smoked some. the high felt wrong though.

i wouldn't take any of it from him and now he doesn't want to use it either.

i understand that some of the synthetics are water soluble, so we are going to "water cure" some and then maybe make BHO from it.


do you think its possible that someone already extracted from this herb and then sprayed it with a synth??

sounds more likely that its been laced with embalming fluid to me, id just throw that shit out. not worth it.

 

[FractaLSD]

Well, JWH is a full agonist, THC is just a partial agonist (you could say that makes JWH more "powerful" as far as affinity to cannabinoid receptors). Basically, the more JWH you use, the stronger the effect is, with weed, its limited by a ceiling effect. Its possible that you got your tolerance up high with JWH and need to give it a break.

Its literally kinda like this: you stopped using morphine, started using heroin, stopped using heroin and went back to morphine, and now it doesnt work as well. Sounds pretty normal to me. (analogy)

 

[GreenLeaf]

a good friend of mine just got a few ounces of herb that i think may be sprayed with a synthetic.

to me, it smelled a bit "green" and lacked any trichomes. but boy oh boy did it mess us up. i vaped some and he smoked some. the high felt wrong though.

i wouldn't take any of it from him and now he doesn't want to use it either.

i understand that some of the synthetics are water soluble, so we are going to "water cure" some and then maybe make BHO from it.


do you think its possible that someone already extracted from this herb and then sprayed it with a synth??

I've heard of people putting synthetics on herb.

It doesn't sound like it's got PCP-wet, dust, "embalming fluid" on it at all. I live in an area where PCP is common and easily available if you want it and they put that on very crappy herb, or even on mint and parsley, and sometimes they'll just have a vial of PCP and people will dip cigs into it and smoke it that way.

I would just get rid of it and not use any of it at all or try to extract anything from it.