Butane purity in direct airpath butane vapes?

[ZC]

So, I use some direct butane vapes and I'm fairly comfortable with it, but I feel as if butane safety is a topic that is often brushed aside in regards to these vapes.

When the topic is brought up, we always get the same line "all the butane burns up you're just getting air and CO2" or some similar line. Which is fine regarding the butane itself, but we know these cans contane more than butane.

When we talk about buying butane, this chart always comes up:

Showing that some brands have more contaminants than others, but they all do have them.

This chart is usually brought up in regards to simple torch function, that you want less contaminates so your torch functions better. The less filtered brands like Ronson tend to clog up a torch.


But this is almost never referenced when we talk about health and safety. Certianly these contaminates are in small amounts, but if you're a heavy user we use a LOT of butane over time.

Does no one have concerns about what these contaminates are and how they may effect your health over a long period of time? Tube vaping, Vapor Genie, Sticky Brick, Daisy, etc all have you inhaling the results of the butane torch, including any contaminates escaping.

These vapes seem to work very well, but there are other butane lighters like the Vapcap, Lotus, Vapman, And supreme that do not have the flame directly enter the airpath.

Is there any sort of risk involved with this? Is that risk worth using these direct butane vapes when there are other options available?

 

[syrupy]

I feel those kind of vapes don't give as good of flavor as ones like vapman or vapcap. Besides contaminants, it seems less safe to have a torch flame that close to one's face.

 

[KeroZen]

Say no to combustion

 

[Andreaerdna]

So, I use some direct butane vapes and I'm fairly comfortable with it, but I feel as if butane safety is a topic that is often brushed aside in regards to these vapes.

When the topic is brought up, we always get the same line "all the butane burns up you're just getting air and CO2" or some similar line. Which is fine regarding the butane itself, but we know these cans contane more than butane.

When we talk about buying butane, this chart always comes up:

Showing that some brands have more contaminants than others, but they all do have them.

This chart is usually brought up in regards to simple torch function, that you want less contaminates so your torch functions better. The less filtered brands like Ronson tend to clog up a torch.


But this is almost never referenced when we talk about health and safety. Certianly these contaminates are in small amounts, but if you're a heavy user we use a LOT of butane over time.

Does no one have concerns about what these contaminates are and how they may effect your health over a long period of time? Tube vaping, Vapor Genie, Sticky Brick, Daisy, etc all have you inhaling the results of the butane torch, including any contaminates escaping.

These vapes seem to work very well, but there are other butane lighters like the Vapcap, Lotus, Vapman, And supreme that do not have the flame directly enter the airpath.

Is there any sort of risk involved with this? Is that risk worth using these direct butane vapes when there are other options available?

I am unsure what happens to those contaminants when treated with a 1300*C flame, and so I agree it is possibly harmfull (as everithing unknown)
you do forget a byproduct of butane clean combustion though, that being water vapor. This is not only harmless but healthier to inhale (than not inhaling) while vapeing (better hot moist vapor than hot dry air for your moist inside)

I for one cook with a butane stove everyday, with a butane that is nowhere as filtered as the worst one showed in your cart as milions of peaples do all around the world, flame is huge compared to the biggest torch and goes on for hours sometimes... so maybe it is not so dangerous?

Personally I am more concerned with sucking air straight from a red hot metal (like lotus to stay with butane or every covective vape that use red hot wires to heat air): not only dryness irritates but what about nano particules of metal bombarding your lungs? if nikel is proved to be released from lotus red hot plate what is released from milana heater (big red hot metal too) or from even smaller heaters like ESV or firewood?

One of the things I love of the often mistreated "conduction" vapes is that they need less heat to reach vaporizing temperature so they are way less hazardous from this POV

Edit: my point being: to vape is riskyer than not to vape, but i like to vape, so which is the less hazardous way to vape?

 

[jojo monkey]

These guys are saying a poison gas is released in the home just by using it.

http://www.thescipub.com/abstract/?doi=ajassp.2005.707.710

http://thescipub.com/PDF/ajassp.2005.707.710.pdf

http://www.greenfacts.org/en/nitrogen-dioxide-no2/

 

[MoltenTiger]

I personally don't like the idea of canned butane being injected into the airflow and will not purchase a device that does this.
However when I was smoking daily that's exactly what I was doing with a Bic lighter, which is a key factor I'm choosing to avoid by vaping.

Ultimately occasional use is probably a negligible health risk. However, IMO, if you're a daily user, it's worth doing what you can to minimise exposure to questionable chemicals irrelevant to the intended experience (arguably the whole purpose of vaping at all).

It's very much a personal preference, and I like @Andreaerdna's point - vaping is riskier than choosing not to. However, the 'healthiest' option of vaping, at this point, is too hard to consider as there is no real information exposing the dynamics of any option.
But I feel more comfortable avoiding butane injected vapes, knowing that it's reducing my exposure to irrelevant chemicals that could pose health risk.

 

[VegNVape]

Say no to combustion

Right on, brother! And I always do, where my herbs are concerned. But come on, using a lighter to produce heat to vaporize is not really the combustion that 'FC' refers to! And I very much doubt that any of us (o.k, maybe a teeny-tiny minority) could possibly rule combustion out of our lives completely - at least in this current day & age.

to vape is riskyer than not to vape

Personally, I feel the exact opposite of this statement is true. IMO, inhaling my choice of vapor is less risky than inhaling the polluted air that is right outside my house. In fact, I would go as far to say that I feel inhaling vapor helps to negate some of the risks inherent in everyday living in the world today.

I feel healthier and stronger when I can freely dose to my own requirements - when compared to multiple experiences of extended vape abstinence.

Amd as for potential nasties inadvertently inhaled when using direct draw butane vapes - I do use (and love) my Daisy & Lily, BUT, I do not personally feel 100% comfortable using them religiously, day in, day out - like I do with many of my other vaporizers. Instead, I bust them out on occasion & enjoy the variation that they bring to my overall vape experience.

So, I guess while there is no solid evidence either way, people just need to educate themselves as best as they can, and ultimately do what they feel comfortable with . . . . but most of all - enjoy life!

It's a vape thing.
OneLove.

 

[MoltenTiger]

Personally, I feel the exact opposite of this statement is true. IMO, inhaling my choice of vapor is less risky than inhaling the polluted air that is right outside my house.

The reality is that the chemical exposure from vapour adds additional compounds to an already widely diverse real world threshold.
I definitely agree that vaping is the better way to live, and I think that the additional risk is effectively null due to the crazy shit that is in the atmosphere in varying concentrations over the globe (of which should be more concerning to anyone).
But vaping is an added complexity that is for the most part not fully understood.
I hope it's safe, and from what I understand and have experienced it's seemingly so.
Compared to smoking it is provably safer, but by how much? How could that even be quantified? We can only be sure it is not 100% safer due to inherent similarities, but if it's 99% safer and smoking is already something people have successfully done for decades, it's damn well a safe enough gamble for me, and anyone who enjoys it.
Adding butane and further contaminants adds to the risk factor, but by how much? There's nothing to compare to, it's simply not the best idea in theory but still safer than smoking, which if done lightly is safer than breathing Beijing air

We can't live without risks but we can choose the ones worth tempting fate with

 

[VegNVape]

The reality is that the chemical exposure from vapour adds additional compounds to an already widely diverse real world threshold.

Additional and potentially beneficial compounds!

 

[MoltenTiger]

Additional and p̶o̶t̶e̶n̶t̶i̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ beneficial compounds!

*mostly

 

[btka]

funny as vas is gaining strength again over me... and I am deciding if Inwant to buy a sticky brick or a milaana a very interessting question howmsafe is butan...

also it would be reallyminteresstingnhow much safer /better vaping is then smoking.....
also I often heard the term popcorn lungs regarding vaping....

 

[Pyr0]

references to popcorn lung are in relation to ecig liquid vaping and the flavourings containing diketones.
I remember reading something about cases of popcorn factory workers developing bronchiolitis obliterans (scarring of the lungs) likely due to inhaling the vapours from the buttery flavouring (diacetyl)

 

[flotntoke]

The levels of these other contaminants (and honestly probably trace elements of butane - at least in some hits) is what keeps me away from the "flame draw" vapes like daisy & sticky brick. Think everyone needs to decide for themselves. But, with decades of weed smoking and cig smoking at the same time, I'm always going to err on the side of less contaminants is better.

On the other part that has evolved here.... I agree that for the lungs vaping is worse than not vaping. But, considering the other benefits I get from my meds (physical, mental and psychological) I think this is the best way to go other than ingestion - and that isn't always practical or what I'm looking for. Maybe someday in the not too distant future with full legalization we'll see other methods to administer our meds (a nasal spray? Who knows?), but until then - and maybe after - I'm happiest with vaping and sticking with it. My preferred devices are pure convection, which I prefer for many reasons, but are probably the "safest" in terms of this discussion also.

 

[btka]

The levels of these other contaminants (and honestly probably trace elements of butane - at least in some hits) is what keeps me away from the "flame draw" vapes like daisy & sticky brick. Think everyone needs to decide for themselves. But, with decades of weed smoking and cig smoking at the same time, I'm always going to err on the side of less contaminants is better.

On the other part that has evolved here.... I agree that for the lungs vaping is worse than not vaping. But, considering the other benefits I get from my meds (physical, mental and psychological) I think this is the best way to go other than ingestion - and that isn't always practical or what I'm looking for. Maybe someday in the not too distant future with full legalization we'll see other methods to administer our meds (a nasal spray? Who knows?), but until then - and maybe after - I'm happiest with vaping and sticking with it. My preferred devices are pure convection, which I prefer for many reasons, but are probably the "safest" in terms of this discussion also.

maybe for only medical reasons a nasal spary could be used... but somehow coming from combustion in need this ritual thing... grinding... filling vape... sucking on vape ... blowing out clouds... looking at clouds and so on... so edibles are not really a substitut for me either...

 

[flotntoke]

maybe for only medical reasons a nasal spary could be used... but somehow coming from combustion in need this ritual thing... grinding... filling vape... sucking on vape ... blowing out clouds... looking at clouds and so on... so edibles are not really a substitut for me either...

I hear you and agree to a certain extent. I enjoy the ritual as well, but thought we were talking about medicating and possible less than favorable contaminants/dangers/side effects. Sorry, but I don't see where ritual fits into the discussion.

 

[MoltenTiger]

references to popcorn lung are in relation to ecig liquid vaping and the flavourings containing diketones.
I remember reading something about cases of popcorn factory workers developing bronchiolitis obliterans (scarring of the lungs) likely due to inhaling the vapours from the buttery flavouring (diacetyl)

Great explanation. eCig vaping truly is a strange game. Remembering back, I recall hearing that some cinnamon flavoured liquids needed to be housed in glass tanks because it was corrosive in plastic...

When you consider the ludicrous behaviour that is inhaling glycerin mixed with complex hydrocarbons possibly derived from crude oil (colouring, flavourings), I really think any concern about butane and minuscule amounts of perfumes and contaminants is negligible comparatively. Any risk that does exist is very minor and at the end of the day, at least it's for an effect.

 

[Vapor_Eyes]

I feel like I should chime in since I'm usually the one posting that chart. I avoided butane vapes for a while simply because I combusted tobacco for well over a decade and wanted to avoid anything using a flame, just because of the association. I finally decided it didn't really matter, I guess I was afraid it would make me want to go back to combusting, but after a couple months of vaping exclusively I knew I would never be tempted to go back to combustion.

Back on topic, my first butane vape was a Sticky Brick. I am very concerned about safety, and I'm also a medical user. All of the research shows that the butane itself is consumed completely by the flame, with harmless byproducts.

Which brings us to contaminants. If you read the source for that chart, it says that the levels of contaminants present are tiny trace amounts well below harmful levels. As far as I can understand that chart was made more for reference when making concentrates, where contaminants can affect flavor. It is a lengthy article full of technical information so not an easy read for sure: https://skunkpharmresearch.com/bho-mystery-oil/

I understand that there is still some risk to using a direct draw butane vape, but to me the risks are minimal and well within reason. When I am cooking at my gas stove I am inhaling similar contaminants for 20 minutes at a time, sometimes multiple times a day. A walk down an urban street or sitting in traffic exposes you to many harmful substances from vehicle exhaust.

It's never a good argument to say that because other things aren't safe you shouldn't worry about safety. That's not what I'm trying to say. I'm just trying to say life is full of risks and you have to decide which ones are important to you. Honestly there's worse ways to die than taking too many hits from my beloved Sticky Brick.

I am OCD by nature and part of dealing with that is learning to let things go. If I wanted 100% safety I wouldn't be vaping at all and would be using edibles or tinctures. I've come to accept that there are inherent risks to vaping, and I try to have faith that the healing properties of cannabis will cancel out the minimal risks I've accepted.

I also want to say that electronic vapes can be very questionable in safety too, to a much larger degree in my opinion. Obviously well known vapes are generally accepted as safe, but generally with new ones you have no idea what's inside. It could have all sorts of nasty harmful stuff, not to mention the inherent risk of using any lithium ion battery powered vape. In my opinion li-ion batteries are magnitudes more risky than butane exhaust. And I have several li-ion powered vapes so I've accepted that risk too.

After all that rambling I want to say that safety and health are intensely personal and I respect anyone's decisions when it comes to that. I just wanted to share my thought process.

 

[btka]

I hear you and agree to a certain extent. I enjoy the ritual as well, but thought we were talking about medicating and possible less than favorable contaminants/dangers/side effects. Sorry, but I don't see where ritual fits into the discussion.

I was a bit offtopic I know..

 

[The Beagle]

if nikel is proved to be released from lotus red hot plate

I have never read anything about this, could you please give me a source?

 

[Andreaerdna]

I have never read anything about this, could you please give me a source?

Hello Beagle,

it is discussed in lotus thread and there was a paper on official lotus site;

IIRC air heated by lotus plate contains nickel three times more than before heating (nikel seems naturally present in ambient air);

 

[btka]

I have never read anything about this, could you please give me a source?

http://lotusvaporizer.com/will-i-be-breathing-metal-fumes/

 

[Andreaerdna]

Thank you @btka i had bad memory, it is not three times more, and there is no comparison between air before and after test.

That being said air heated by lotus plate is rich of nickel (while being in the range it is a lot: compared to the bottom of the range is ten times more), slighlty more than 1microgram over 24 hrs, so... Or the air being heated was already in the upper range of nickel content or some nickel is released from the plate, not much but some.

That is quite understandable to me as when heated to red hot a metal is in transition from solid to liquid phase therefore some part of the liquid can evaporate as bonds are wickers

We are talking of very little amounts, as in butane impurities they are not much