Bowl size... taken with a grain of salt...

[nigel]

A couple of us have been discussing a way to compare the size of a load in various vapes. We're thinking of having FC members measure how big the loads are in their favorite vapes by weighing and reporting how much table salt they will hold.



EDIT (partially moved from below to here): From now on, I'll "LIKE" the post to indicate that I got your info. If I have already "LIKE"d your post, please don't edit it to add new devices. I might not think to look backwards, and thus not see any additions. Make a new entry.

If your device is already listed by others, more data helps, as I will average it. [Up to a point. I don't need 3,000 entries for one device. ]


Also, please use a "level fill", NOT what you normally use. We are looking for TOTAL capacity here. So fill to brim, and level off with a straight-edge. Then measure.
If the bowl is difficult to fill, you are creative people...

THANKS ALL!

 

[OF]

This is, I think, a useful idea. It came from a lively discussion that happens a lot, 'how big is the load in this vape?'. In this case it's a brand new one that only a few testers have, but the rest of us are of course eager to compare it to ones we know (and hopefully love).

Since there's huge difference in weights of bud in a given bowl what with dryness, grind, packing and so on in addition to any differences in the buds themselves we decided to measure the volume of the bowls rather than the weight of bud they hold for each individual. We hope to make a table based on the weight of table salt each vape's bowl holds (a pretty standard density). Through some simple math a guy could then weigh how much weight of his favorite bud, cured ground and packed in his own vape (provided it's on the list) as a reference. If he vapes say .150 grams per trench in his MFLB, he could divide it by the 'grams of salt' for the MFLB (say .40 for a blind guess) then multiply it by the ..6 for the new wiz-bang wondervape and know he'd be loading .225 grams 'his way' in that vape.

I'm sure that makes almost no sense to most guys, but once we get some numbers to work with a few examples with real numbers should make it clear.

Hopefully very soon you'll be able to answer the 'how much weed in a load' question easily and in a very useful and accurate way. Right now, you can't get that answer since you and I load so very differently.

For now, it's time to remember to weigh, in grams, a normal filling level on your vape's bowl the next time you clean it. Keep the salt handy, even if you don't already use it with ISO (which you should....). A small piece of wax paper or similar can be used to keep the salt in the bowl if it wants to get away through a screen or something. If your scale only reads to .1 gram you might consider weighing several bowls at once and dividing to get a more accurate weight?

Thanks guys, together I think we can make ourselves a very useful little data base here that can aid in our selections from the increasing number of neat vapes coming to the market.

OF

 

[francis]

Pax : 2.4 g
HerbalAire : 5 g

my desk look like a cokehead wonderland

 

[nigel]

pax . 2.4 g

Damn, you are fast. Was it a clean oven?

I've already jotted down your reply, and will keep collecting until I have enough to publish.

Thanks!

EDIT: From now on, I'll "LIKE" the post to indicate that I got your info. No need to reply to everyone, but I wanted to acknowledge francis for his quick-out-of-the-gate-reply.

Oh, and if I have already "LIKE"d your post, please don't edit it to add new devices. I might not think to look backwards, and thus not see any additions.

Make a new entry if it is a latter addition. Perhaps we can ask for an exception to the "double-post" rule as this is mostly just a contribution thread, not a reading thread.

THANKS ALL!

 

[francis]

was cleaning it when i saw this thread .
both were clean.
classic Windsor table salt.

 

[OF]

Pax . 2.4 g
HerbalAire : 5 g

my desk look like a cokehead wonderland

This is cool already. So a guy loading say half a gram in his HA 'knows' he'll load a quarter gram if he gets a Pax! When we've got a couple dozen vapes cataloged here, collectively we'll know more about the vape business than anyone does now???

I gotta clean some vapes.....

Thanks very much for the first data!

OF

 

[francis]

hey np guys , if i can help.

 

[stickstones]

this is brilliant...do we need a salt standard? like table salt vs sea salt?

 

[nigel]

this is brilliant...do we need a salt standard? like table salt vs sea salt?

Yes. Table salt.

Obviously sea salt, has larger structures, so that adversely affects the evenness of the pack.

I don't know if there is a difference between commercial table salts themselves, and suspect that they are at least reasonably uniform across brands, but perhaps we should establish a brand preference (and note when it is not available for measurement?)?

For the sake of measurement, let's agree to Morton's as at least being universal in the US? (Whereas store brands might only be regional. And if Morton's costs a little more... suck it up in the name of science!) I do not know about the prevelance of this brand in other countries/economic-regions, but I am open to suggestions.



When we are done, we can house a fixed volume of our salt-metric under a bell-jar in France.

 

[Stu]

Cloud ELB 2.57g

 

[pakalolo]

For now, it's time to remember to weigh, in grams, a normal filling level on your vape's bowl the next time you clean it.

I suspect that varies a lot. The bowl for the FV is huge! I don't know what percentage of it I use, but it's not much. I weigh .07-.08 g and dump it in. That covers the screen but not too deeply. My normal fill level for the Pinnacle is about 75% full, but I'm sure some people fill it right up. Etc.

My point here is that you have to capture the percentage of fill as well as the weight of the salt.

 

[Stu]

I suspect that varies a lot. The bowl for the FV is huge! I don't know what percentage of it I use, but it's not much. I weigh .07-.08 g and dump it in. That covers the screen but not too deeply. My normal fill level for the Pinnacle is about 75% full, but I'm sure some people fill it right up. Etc.

My point here is that you have to capture the percentage of fill as well as the weight of the salt.

Good point, Pak. My ELB measurement was capacity, not my typical load size. I hope that was clear. I normally load about half the ELB's capacity FWIW.

 

[nigel]

I suspect that varies a lot. The bowl for the FV is huge! I don't know what percentage of it I use, but it's not much. I weigh .07-.08 g and dump it in. That covers the screen but not too deeply. My normal fill level for the Pinnacle is about 75% full, but I'm sure some people fill it right up. Etc.

My point here is that you have to capture the percentage of fill as well as the weight of the salt.

[EDIT: Pak -- Just noticed the underline. By "normal fill level" OF meant "level fill". I presumed that was clear, but thank you for catching this.]
---
We specify a "level fill". This means "to the brim, and leveled off with a straight-dege". We don't care what one's "normal fill" is, as, we all do it differently. Just "level fill".

Now, granted, some devices are irregular and there is no way around it.

But the people here are smart, and and find a reasonable way to try to at least get close.

PLUS the advantage in averaging and dropping erroneous measurements, mitigates this dramatically.


EDIT:

Good point, Pak. My ELB measurement was capacity, not my typical load size. I hope that was clear. I normally load about half the ELB's capacity FWIW.

Thanks Stu! That's EXACTLY what we wanted.

How YOU fill it is subjective taste. How much IT HOLDS is an objective, measurable quantity.

Thanks to both of you, as it is clear we didn't make this clear in the first couple of posts. I'll add statement now.

 

[Dreamerr]

I didn't read yet but scanned. It has to be to at the min two decimal places. If you only have a scale that does .1, .2 that won't work. That is why I didn't bother with weight when I did my pics and estimated. I think I need to get a cheapy scale to hundredths.

 

[OF]

I didn't read yet but scanned. It has to be to at the min two decimal places. If you only have a scale that does .1, .2 that won't work. That is why I didn't bother with weight when I did my pics and estimated. I think I need to get a cheapy scale to hundredths.

Or weigh several salt loads together and divide. Doing ten gives you another decimal point?

OF

 

[Dreamerr]

Now that is to hard why did you even type that come on now. It is way easier to buy a ten dollar scale and besides then I have to buy something else to make 25 bucks...now that is thinking like a woman not dividing . I wish ebay had one with free shipping so I didn't have to spend more money but you twisted my arm.

We will still have to average results as some may not pack and fill as tight as others.

 

[nigel]

Now that is to hard why did you even type that come on now.

I'll make you a deal: You fill it 10 times. Dump them all on the same tared scale, and measure them. Tell me the number. I'll do the math for you.

We will still have to average results as some may not pack and fill as tight as others.

One of the reasons we used common table salt, is that it has a (relatively) constant density and a (relatively) common pack. [Actually, the two are related.]

But, I'm also accepting more data for all, so I will average across all of the samples (within tolerances) for a particular device.

 

[SwiftGeneration]

Arizer Extreme Q Cyclone Bowl: 7.41g (filled to bottom of heat resistant rubber; filling any more didn't allow the whip to seal)

Arizer Extreme Q Elbow Pack: 1.13g

Da Vinci: 2.07g

 

[Seek]

I don't want to put salt ibto my bowls. Also I don't think salt or absolute measurements are needed.
If we take eough relative measurement then one absolute can unfold everything.
I can't take measurements right now, maybe later.
None of these are exact measurements, mostly just my guesses.
And everything is relative (except 0)

VAPE[Min] = Minimum load that vapes well enough
VAPE[Max] = Maximum load that vapes well enough
VAPE[Opt] = Interval where it vapes at/near its full potential

MFLB[Min] ~ 0
MFLB[Opt] ~ (0, MFLB[Max]/2)
IO[Min] ~ IO[Max]/8
IO[Opt] ~ (IO[Max]/2, IO[Max])
EQ[Min] ~ EQ[Max]/4
EQ[Opt] ~ (EQ[Max]/2, EQ[Max])
Cano[Min] ~ Cano[Max]/16
Cano[Opt] ~ (Cano[Max]/4, Cano[Max])
VXC[Min] ~ 0
VXC[Opt] ~ (0, VXC[Max])

EQ[Max] ~ Cano[Max]/4
VXC[Max] ~ EQ[Max]/2
IO[Max] ~ VXC[Max]
MFLB[Max] ~ VXC[Max]/2

 

[pakalolo]

I don't mind measuring with salt, My results this morning:

MFLB 2.10
Pax 2.48
FV (S1) 7.65
FV (S2) 6.97
Hammer (L) 1.59
Hammer (S) 0.98
Palm 2.0 1.44
Pinnacle 1.69
Volta 7.15
Solo PVHES 1.40

The Sublimator is difficult. The Atomizer has a huge bowl but when the Apollo is in place it occupies a lot of the volume and you can't see exactly how much, so you can't tell how much to fill.

 

[hoptimum]

I don't mind measuring with salt, My results this morning:

MFLB 2.10
Pax 2.48
FV (S1) 7.65
FV (S2) 6.97
Hammer (L) 1.59
Hammer (S) 0.98
Palm 2.0 1.44
Pinnacle 1.69
Volta 7.15
Solo PVHES 1.40

The Sublimator is difficult. The Atomizer has a huge bowl but when the Apollo is in place it occupies a lot of the volume and you can't see exactly how much, so you can't tell how much to fill.

Those amounts seem like a lot in your FVs

 

[clouded vision]

I don't think this is going to give an accurate representation of how much each unit is capable of holding while still functioning because the optimal packing for each unit is different. For example, my solo works best when I pack it tight all the way to the top, meanwhile if I tried to do the same with my LSV I doubt I would be able to hit it and definitely wouldn't be able to stir it without significant loss from spillage.

Basically I'm saying that yes my LSV can technically hold more than twice as much as my solo but I could never use my LSV with a fully packed bowl the way I could with my solo.

I do agree this is a useful topic and I have no better ideas for how to properly measure it but unfortunately I don't think this is an effective way either.

 

[Live-N-Learn]

Get all the data!!!! Like the NSA. Just collect it all and eventually you'll have what you need. LOL
1 Step at a time though. Get all the data on weight first and then worry about optimal bowl size, temperatures, etc. I think this is a great idea. I dont know what the use of this will be, but it is interesting.

 

[pakalolo]

Those amounts seem like a lot in your FVs

I'll stick my neck out and guess that you've never seen an FV.

That's the old S2 spacer. I measured using the new one, which is thicker.

 

[Dreamerr]

Paka with the PN did you fill to the brim or to the bend flashing or whatever it is called?

I think this is great even though there are differences in optimal fill. You can take the end values we come up with and if you need to compare vapes just use the values, weight out the salt, put it on paper and you can visually compare load size of the vapes you are trying to compare.

Great job nigel and OF for coming up with this and maybe me. A bigger thanks for those participating. I don't even have a tear function on my .1 scale so you lose on that to nigel. I really need to order the aws one on amazon and just get extra stuff to make up to 25 bucks. They are actually more money on ebay for some odd reason.