Sour Dream
Blue Dream enthusiast
I guess the dyna wasn’t the anvils inspiration, the irony
BFG Castle ‘unofficial thread’
- Thread starter endof3d
- Start date
Farid
Well-Known Member
AFAIK trihouse never patented their design. That's the key difference.
leanpubpackage
Well-Known Member
I think at this point, it’s a matter of opinion. The market will decide how well the devices sell, based on individual interest and needs.
Objectively, BFG wouldn’t spend the time and effort if they didn’t think there was a market need for their products.
Farid
Well-Known Member
That same argument could be made for 100% knockoffs. Most consumers don't have the interest of an inventor in mind. That's why we have patent law, because the free market encourages immitation and stifles innovation without this protection. Unfortunately enforcing patents is difficult for small companies, especially when the violator is overseas.
Whether these products are in violation of patents or Trademarks is another matter...
Whether these products are in violation of patents or Trademarks is another matter...
BingsBuddery
Derelict Meatsack
Patent law has strayed far from it's noble intent, and become little more than a stage for bullying. Baseless and dubious infringement claims keep competition from gaining marketshare, it drains their resources, and it damages their reputation. Unless a legitimate infringement claim can be made by a patent owner, the rest of the speculation is essentially tantamount to defamation, imo.
I agree that the US patent system is broken. However I still think that what BFG is doing here is kind of fucked. As far as I can tell this is an attempt to ripoff the lotus but poorly.
Sativapo
Well-Known Member
I think there's a difference between a complete knockoff and using the main idea and putting someone's own feeling, touch and innovation. And I think BFG has it's own patina, style and above average innovation.
You can see there's passion and feeling there and not just business or cheating. There's obviously other ways for easy money.I am personnaly not a patent cop or lawyer and prefer to support this type of newcomer than buy 3 times the same vape with different anodised colors and tones of marketing.
If the Lotus creator was selling this right now or directly hurt I would maybe not support it.
The law generally protects the more powerful. Did you know big pharma is trying to appropriate every natural plant medecine in the amazon with patents ? Sorry for the off topic
You can see there's passion and feeling there and not just business or cheating. There's obviously other ways for easy money.I am personnaly not a patent cop or lawyer and prefer to support this type of newcomer than buy 3 times the same vape with different anodised colors and tones of marketing.
If the Lotus creator was selling this right now or directly hurt I would maybe not support it.
The law generally protects the more powerful. Did you know big pharma is trying to appropriate every natural plant medecine in the amazon with patents ? Sorry for the off topic
BingsBuddery
Derelict Meatsack
Read Grover's assessment, man.. Like, that dude is truly the most hardcore Lotus fan there is, and he finds the Castle is not a close approximation of the Lotus experience. It's quite different. So, just going by logic, does it not make more sense that "inspired by" is more likely the case, when the experience is such a far cry from a Lotus? It would have been nothing for him to copy it exactly, but that is not what has happened here. Yes they both use a heat exchanger in a wood body, but I'm not sure that is enough to call it a ripoff or a clone. The changes that were made to the design were intentional. Vu didn't like how easy it was to combust in a Lotus, and that was intentionally altered to make it more forgiving to the average user. I'd say that's innovation, not imitation.
That was what convinced me it was a poor knock off.
Farid
Well-Known Member
In a vacuum that could be true, however other actions of this manufacturer indicate a lack of respect for Trademarks let alone patents with their "Danivape" name. A lot of us spoke up about this being a bad buisness move and were ignored. If you can't even think of an original name...
Sour Dream
Blue Dream enthusiast
Wasnt the name based off of their local language and market and not the dyna? Yal reaching
Farid
Well-Known Member
If you believe that I've got a bridge to sell ya.
And that wasn't even what he claimed, he claimed it had something to do with the cookie tin they held weed in.
BingsBuddery
Derelict Meatsack
The name was chosen after the Danisa cookie tins they use in Vietnam to store weed in. You can choose to accept that or not, but regardless, they also stopped calling it "Danivape" in marketing a long time ago; it's simply called Dani. DV George and Vu have spoken personally, and there has never been any infringement claim made against BFG. So I guess your point is a little moot. Seems they are different enough that the company who owns the trademark and patent hasn't filed suit.
ImTrynaVape
Member
There is an interesting conversation here about intellectual property that I feel is moot in practical terms in this case because the original maker closed up shop over a year ago after distributing these on a relatively limited basis for 10 years. Buying a knockoff while the original patent is in limbo doesn’t really bother me on its own personally but people calling out this manufacturer have a point though.
BFG’s Danivape is a pretty shameless concept itself and a more visceral example of patent/trademark shadiness I feel (since dynavaps are still being made at scale) but you’ll see the Dani’s praises sung on the internet (including here) in comparison to the Dyna so I think Battery Free Ganz is picking up on the fact that vape enthusiasts on places like here will stuff their morals and open their wallet for whatever manufacturer gets them as high as they need to be, patents be damned.
A precedent has been set and it’s not a good one tbh. We can’t rip off BFG’s designs in the way that BFG can potentially rip off ours since they are located in Vietnam, one of the best spots in the world for the combo of cheap labor and good manufacturing. That’s not a new argument at all I know but the vape space is great for small businesses started by regular joes and janes like you and me so it’s especially concerning.
I wanted an original Lotus so I could look like Gandalf while vaping so as far as I’m concerned whoever currently owns the right to make Lotus vapes has 4 days and counting to tell us about the future of their product before this BFG Castle releases. Otherwise, I will be picking up a Castle and shortly after asking this forum where to get a Gandalf-like pipe attachment for it. This thread is making me think twice about picking up a Dani fusion at the same time though.
BFG’s Danivape is a pretty shameless concept itself and a more visceral example of patent/trademark shadiness I feel (since dynavaps are still being made at scale) but you’ll see the Dani’s praises sung on the internet (including here) in comparison to the Dyna so I think Battery Free Ganz is picking up on the fact that vape enthusiasts on places like here will stuff their morals and open their wallet for whatever manufacturer gets them as high as they need to be, patents be damned.
A precedent has been set and it’s not a good one tbh. We can’t rip off BFG’s designs in the way that BFG can potentially rip off ours since they are located in Vietnam, one of the best spots in the world for the combo of cheap labor and good manufacturing. That’s not a new argument at all I know but the vape space is great for small businesses started by regular joes and janes like you and me so it’s especially concerning.
I wanted an original Lotus so I could look like Gandalf while vaping so as far as I’m concerned whoever currently owns the right to make Lotus vapes has 4 days and counting to tell us about the future of their product before this BFG Castle releases. Otherwise, I will be picking up a Castle and shortly after asking this forum where to get a Gandalf-like pipe attachment for it. This thread is making me think twice about picking up a Dani fusion at the same time though.
Sour Dream
Blue Dream enthusiast
I missed the uproar and morals over the freight train and the 1000 other ball vape/flowerpot copies over the last year.
Interesting that when this company takes inspiration and makes new products it’s a problem.
People defending for profit companies like they are on retainer still doesn’t make sense to me but I’ll exit this convo.
Interesting that when this company takes inspiration and makes new products it’s a problem.
People defending for profit companies like they are on retainer still doesn’t make sense to me but I’ll exit this convo.
Timps27
Feel like I’m winnin’ when I’m losin’ again
As many have already hashed out IP enriches lawyers and corporations, it does nothing for actual inventors. The market mechanism that is of use here is selective consumption; and on that note I stand firm. The devices and marketing used by BFG clearly “borrow heavily” where they don’t outright clone; these are not business practices I choose to associate with so I abstain from doing business with the company.
Let’s be transparent and honest in our assessments and let individuals make their choice. BFG is not the devil running around stealing everything that isn‘t bolted down willy nilly, nor are they saints who do 100% of their own R&D. You decide whether their business practices are acceptable for you, leave the stones at home.
Let’s be transparent and honest in our assessments and let individuals make their choice. BFG is not the devil running around stealing everything that isn‘t bolted down willy nilly, nor are they saints who do 100% of their own R&D. You decide whether their business practices are acceptable for you, leave the stones at home.
darkstar72
Well-Known Member
I don't know much about patent law but I get that products evolve. Log vapes have evolved, the mousetrap and wheel have evolved. If there's some infringement than I hope the legal system works. I like that new vapes are showing up and I like the lotus design so if this one approximates it than I plan to watch this thread closely.
Glorg
Well-Known Member
I just want someone to make replacement heat plates for the lotus and I will be happy. Having the heater further away seems counter intuitive to what the lotus does so well but we’ll see when this one’s release. Also not a fan of staged metal adaptors. I’m also confused by anyone thinking this isn’t just a blatant knockoff , what are you even talking about it’s just a chunkier uglier version what isn’t a knockoff here. it’s a heat plate with air channels that run beneath it, it’s not exactly complicated in design adding a adjustable air flow doesn’t change the fact it’s just a blatant knockoff, but with lotus not following up on heat plates and seemingly not trying very hard to sell I’m not exactly surprised someone is doing this or even that mad but let’s not pretend it isn’t what it is.
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seriousTone
Well-Known Member
I mean....every single vape is basically a ripoff of every other vape out there.
Yes this one looks very similar (same) but so does every log vape.
So does tinymight, tetra, Nomad.
It goes on and on.
Yes this one looks very similar (same) but so does every log vape.
So does tinymight, tetra, Nomad.
It goes on and on.
Glorg
Well-Known Member
The tinymight tetra and nomad all look significantly different and have entirely different heaters, that’s a willfully ignorant example compared to this and the lotus unless your saying a sort of rectangular shape is “all the same” Again lotus isn’t trying to sell anymore from what I can see, he put it up on Craigslist at one point for like 100k for a pdf file, I’m surprised it wasn’t knocked off sooner but this here is a knock off.
maremaresing
Well-Known Member
People see a vape like the dani or castle from across a field during a rainstorm, then go on the warpath. I see this universally, where an instant reaction and some strange defensiveness keeps people from any further thought.
Anyone who gives more than 2 seconds to the BFG devices can see they are obviously unique and innovative in this industry. I get brand loyalty, but those brands simply didn't invent and market those devices. If they had, I'd probably buy them. In fact, I screamed for years for these improvements and was just sold the same thing different color.
In the case of castle, I never bought a lotus because I was put off by it's operation. This appears to be better in that respect, plus actually being available for purchase. I'll probably get one of these day one, especially if they can do a cool long stem.
Anyone who gives more than 2 seconds to the BFG devices can see they are obviously unique and innovative in this industry. I get brand loyalty, but those brands simply didn't invent and market those devices. If they had, I'd probably buy them. In fact, I screamed for years for these improvements and was just sold the same thing different color.
In the case of castle, I never bought a lotus because I was put off by it's operation. This appears to be better in that respect, plus actually being available for purchase. I'll probably get one of these day one, especially if they can do a cool long stem.
Arawfish
How many vaps could a Vapman vap…
What a tired out and lame thing to say. Or maybe when I hear “knockoff” I tend to apply a negative aspect to the thing in question, and I don’t think BFG deserves that kind of negativity because that’s the kind of thing people like to pickup and run with. It’s very obviously inspired and Vu has also said exactly that, but does that make this a knockoff? A company which is now dissolved cannot possibly lose anything to BFG.
Should this not be viewed as the spiritual successor and embraced with open arms? I know some of those here which are against this have great love for the lotus, and I can understand that - to a point. I would not call a brick a knockoff triihouse. Nor would I call a Nova a knockoff brick.
To me this Vape immediately makes me think of a Vapman faster than I think about a lotus.
There’s plenty of inspiration and plenty of room for everyone and more here.
Anyways, very interested to watch this vape evolve.
PS. I do think it would have been cool for someone to continue the legacy for Lotus like René found for Vapman. Maybe there’s still hope? I think we all know they would have a waitlist a mile long if it did happen.
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kokolokokolokon
Well-Known Member
Imagine this: Someone created a grasshopper-like heater! omg! it can´t be! oh no! i know the company is dead but i feel angry! aaaah! im gonna punch my face! aaah!
Now this: Someone created something called "car"! omg! it can´t be! plagiarism! oh no! My carriage is more beautiful and better! totally natural! i feel angry! aaaah! im gonna punch my face! aaah!
And now this: Someone created something called "carriage"! omg! it can´t be! plagiarism! oh no! My lovely wheel is more beautiful and simple! revolutionary! i feel angry! aaaah! im gonna punch my face! aaah!
Just joking people
Don´t be so serious, Laughing is life, Pear is life
The great Pear will enjoy the Castle
Now this: Someone created something called "car"! omg! it can´t be! plagiarism! oh no! My carriage is more beautiful and better! totally natural! i feel angry! aaaah! im gonna punch my face! aaah!
And now this: Someone created something called "carriage"! omg! it can´t be! plagiarism! oh no! My lovely wheel is more beautiful and simple! revolutionary! i feel angry! aaaah! im gonna punch my face! aaah!
Just joking people
Don´t be so serious, Laughing is life, Pear is lifeThe great Pear will enjoy the Castle
BingsBuddery
Derelict Meatsack
This. Folks may not realize exactly how limited the Castle will be; VERY limited. Lotus could resume business tomorrow and start cashing checks the next day. I'd be a buyer, for sure. The market-share of Levin et. al. is not in jeopardy here, which seems like a funny thing to say about a company with shutters on it's doors.