Best Value Vacs

[donkitrk99]

Anyone use their products? Considering purchasing a pump and chamber from them. I'm in Canada and can order the same products from www.ledab.ca. with free shipping within canada (and no border crossing/customs).

 

[DieHard]

I have a BVV set up. I have the Pyrex chamber. I recommend one of their chambers that has the replaceable silicone gasket. Not the stuck on gasket. Their products are top notch. In fact they are having a giveaway for a complete closed loop system on Instagram now. You will not be dissapointed. I have made many DIY batches.

 

[donkitrk99]

Pyrex is exactly what I was looking at. Cheapest and can't see it being a lesser product? Do you use something to heat it?

 

[DieHard]

Pyrex is exactly what I was looking at. Cheapest and can't see it being a lesser product? Do you use something to heat it?

They sell a heat mat to heat it. I use an electric skillet (water bath) connected to a BBQ Guru to maintain precise temperature.

 

[donkitrk99]

Thanks for the reply. I was hoping for a cheaper solutiin than the mat they offer. Heat isn't actually neccesary right, just speeds up the process?
Also I had someone tell me elsewhere that that the "railing on the lid sucks" and you need to "constantly rewrap it". I'll admit, I don't know exactly what he means - I still don't have the product and I've never seen or used anything like it before. But is this a problem you've experienced?

 

[DieHard]

Thanks for the reply. I was hoping for a cheaper solutiin than the mat they offer. Heat isn't actually neccesary right, just speeds up the process?
Also I had someone tell me elsewhere that that the "railing on the lid sucks" and you need to "constantly rewrap it". I'll admit, I don't know exactly what he means - I still don't have the product and I've never seen or used anything like it before. But is this a problem you've experienced?

You will need some temp control. The oil needs to be pliable enough to let the bubbles form and solvent to escape. Too much heat combined with vacuum and you can boil off all of the desirable goodies. Water can boil at room temperature in a total vacuum.

 

[donkitrk99]

I see people using digital induction heaters and pads set to 120F. Does the temperature need to be perfect or consistent or just keeping the oil pliable. As it stands now I hot water purge and have found my tap water gets to 120-125 and I use a temperature gun and replace it at 100-110. Could something similar work with the pyrex chamber? Maybe a heating pad to lessen the amount of times the water needs replacing.

 

[DieHard]

I see people using digital induction heaters and pads set to 120F. Does the temperature need to be perfect or consistent or just keeping the oil pliable. As it stands now I hot water purge and have found my tap water gets to 120-125 and I use a temperature gun and replace it at 100-110. Could something similar work with the pyrex chamber? Maybe a heating pad to lessen the amount of times the water needs replacing.

I purge from 85f to 97f so I need more precise control. Cold boil= preserve terps.

 

[Monsoon]

Anyone use their products? Considering purchasing a pump and chamber from them. I'm in Canada and can order the same products from www.ledab.ca. with free shipping within canada (and no border crossing/customs).

Price it out first on the main site first, I found LeDab to be more expensive even after the exchange rate and taxes. You could also see if they can match it, worth a try. I ended up ordering directly from BestValueVacs, it arrived quickly via FedEx and they undervalued it at $100 so the customs weren't that bad.

I got mine with their heatpad, I guess the only downside with it is it's permanent but I don't have any reason to remove it. You're going to want some sort of stable heat source, ideally you're going to be purging for at least 2 days so you need some kind of heater going. Personally I don't usually go much higher than ~108F on the heater to keep the slab around 100F, usually purge for 3 days with flips every 6-12 hours.

 

[herbivore21]

A chamber is a chamber so long as it will hold together (not implode!), accept the right connections and made of safe materials etc. However, I do not recommend buying vacuum pumps unless they are purpose made for use with solvents like butane, ethanol, iso or whatever you are using.

These 2 stroke oil based pumps with non ptfe internals are generally not safe for use with the solvents we use, which will cause leaching and/or offgassing of the internals with cumulative exposure to the recovered solvent.

Oilless pumps that have PTFE internals are a must for this purpose. There are a lot of good reasons that only these kinds of pumps are used in the lab for these kinds of applications. The only pump on that website which is suitable that I can see for our purposes is the Welch 2052B PTFE diaphragm pump, which costs 3.5k or so.

 

[donkitrk99]

I did think le dab was a little pricey but I figured part of it was that the pump and chamber didn't come as a package.

Also free shipping on ledab and no need to worry about border crossing.

I see the heating pads sold separately on there - I never would have thought they were attached.

Herbivore - they sell a filter separately. Would this combat/help combat any/all of these problems?

 

[herbivore21]

I did think le dab was a little pricey but I figured part of it was that the pump and chamber didn't come as a package.

Also free shipping on ledab and no need to worry about border crossing.

I see the heating pads sold separately on there - I never would have thought they were attached.

Herbivore - they sell a filter separately. Would this combat/help combat any/all of these problems?

Greetings sir, a good question.

The exhaust filters that BVV sells are not especially clear in the description on this one. They indicate recovering 'certain hydrocarbon gases' (we use hydrocarbons for our extraction solvents) but are not clear as to whether this refers to gas phase organic hydrocarbon (terpene) compounds that have been boiled off of the extract or whether this includes some or all of the solvents we use.

I do not recommend the use of vacuum pumps that are not rated by their manufacturer to be used with the solvent/s you intend to use. This information should be readily available from retailers. I have never been in contact with a vacuum pump specialist that does not first ask if there is a specific chemical application and what the chemical is to ensure compatibility/safety.

 

[Monsoon]

These 2 stroke oil based pumps with non ptfe internals are generally not safe for use with the solvents we use, which will cause leaching and/or offgassing of the internals with cumulative exposure to the recovered solvent.

Oilless pumps that have PTFE internals are a must for this purpose. There are a lot of good reasons that only these kinds of pumps are used in the lab for these kinds of applications. The only pump on that website which is suitable that I can see for our purposes is the Welch 2052B PTFE diaphragm pump, which costs 3.5k or so.

When you refer to safety here, do you mean to the user or the pump itself? I expect there would be some damage to the pump over the long term even with frequent oil changes but I think you'll still get your money's worth at ~$100. A cold trap with dry-ice should reduce or eliminate the solvents from getting into the pump too and is still much cheaper than an oil-less pump. I just try not to run the pump more than a few minutes at a time and it still seems fine almost a year later. I wanted to get an oil-less one but they're way too much starting out.

I've got the filter canister on the pump exhaust, it's just filled with activated charcoal. The oil-level drops slowly over time so should be whatever's in the oil that exhausts out.

 

[herbivore21]

When you refer to safety here, do you mean to the user or the pump itself? I expect there would be some damage to the pump over the long term even with frequent oil changes but I think you'll still get your money's worth at ~$100. A cold trap with dry-ice should reduce or eliminate the solvents from getting into the pump too and is still much cheaper than an oil-less pump. I just try not to run the pump more than a few minutes at a time and it still seems fine almost a year later. I wanted to get an oil-less one but they're way too much starting out.

I've got the filter canister on the pump exhaust, it's just filled with activated charcoal. The oil-level drops slowly over time so should be whatever's in the oil that exhausts out.

Sorry my friend, should have been clearer

It depends on how the pump is used as to whether this is a personal safety or device safety matter and whether quickly or only over a very long time with extended use.

A cold trap could indeed stop the bulk or even all of the solvent from getting through - cumulative exposure of solvent to the internals of the pump in small amounts may still be possible but this can be avoided if the cold trap setup is adequate.

With regard to your specific scenario; I know activated charcoal can be used to purify alcohols, water and air for that matter (I used to work in the air purification industry building and repairing such devices). However, I worked with solvents in said industry around many such air purification systems (which provided air filtration down to the finest sub-micron levels) and I can tell you that cellulose and activated charcoal filters in combination did not remove solvent fumes from the air in any great measure, and I was working around considerably lesser concentrations of solvent gases (including methanol, sodium hydroxide and isopropanol) in the atmosphere, rather than higher concentrations of such fumes being pulled out of a chamber full of boiling solvent as in your scenario. I do not believe that a charcoal filter is likely to do the job on it's own for stopping solvents getting through, although it is certainly useful to keep various other nasties out of your pump

Do you use a cold trap? As you mention, this could give you some added longevity for your pump and extra peace of mind

By the way, I recently have found much cheaper yet still good (like around 1k usd) diaphragm pumps with ptfe internals. Not from an online vendor and not in the US unfortunately. It really depends on which features you are looking for in the pump as to what it will cost (within lower and upper limits of course). I have seen good ptfe diaphgragm pumps for under 500USD brand new at the vendor I refer to above, albeit too low of a flow rate for our purposes really.

 

[Monsoon]

I do not believe that a charcoal filter is likely to do the job on it's own for stopping solvents getting through, although it is certainly useful to keep various other nasties out of your pump

Not sure if you're understanding it right, the charcoal filter is attached to an exit hole at the top of the pump, it's the big blue thing:

The most it can do is filter any nasty fumes coming out of the pump and into the room, there's no filter between the pump and the chamber besides a ball valve to prevent oil being sucked into the chamber by accident.

I don't use a cold trap since I don't have easy access to dry ice unfortunately. No idea why, I live in a major metropolitan city and the only two places that sell it are in an industrial park that takes forever to get to. Super jealous of people who can get it at their corner store.

If I stick with QWET I'll consider an oil-less one when this one breaks down if I can find one cheap enough.

 

[herbivore21]

Not sure if you're understanding it right, the charcoal filter is attached to an exit hole at the top of the pump, it's the big blue thing:

The most it can do is filter any nasty fumes coming out of the pump and into the room, there's no filter between the pump and the chamber besides a ball valve to prevent oil being sucked into the chamber by accident.

I don't use a cold trap since I don't have easy access to dry ice unfortunately. No idea why, I live in a major metropolitan city and the only two places that sell it are in an industrial park that takes forever to get to. Super jealous of people who can get it at their corner store.

If I stick with QWET I'll consider an oil-less one when this one breaks down if I can find one cheap enough.

Lol no sorry, I was not understanding properly! I thought you were using activated charcoal between chamber and pump.

Yes the filter on the outside of the pump should be good for keeping most possible nasties that could exhaust out into your room. However, any recovered solvent will first end up end up going through the pump. This was the concern I was outlining originally due to reactivity between solvent and pump internal components - this is why it is important to use pumps designed for use with the solvents you intend to use.

I actually have the same situation as you man, no store that I can just wander into to get dry ice either! Some industrial type companies sell it though. I too am jealous of those who can get it from the mall etc!

 

[donkitrk99]

For just a little more than a quarter of the price of the vacuum oven I can get the pump, chamber, and heatpad. What is the big difference between the two set ups?

 

[Monsoon]

For just a little more than a quarter of the price of the vacuum oven I can get the pump, chamber, and heatpad. What is the big difference between the two set ups?

The oven has bigger capacity and is heated on more sides than just the bottom.

 

[donkitrk99]

Thank you. What kind of capacity would a 1.75 quart chamber have?

 

[Monsoon]

Thank you. What kind of capacity would a 1.75 quart chamber have?

Hard to say but you'll want to get as much surface area as possible. I went with the 3 quart flat chamber and I figure I can get up to 20-30g if I maximize the surface area. You need to watch the muffin a bit more with the flat chamber but I personally haven't had any issues.

 

[donkitrk99]

So safe to say the 1.75 qt pyrex should handle 10-12 g?

 

[psychonaut]

I have their shatter vac, heating pad, and a 45gr open blasting tube. I bought a pump off of ebay to save a little money. The quality of their products is great IMO, everything very durable and solid, the electronics are very nice as well.

They will be the first company I recommend for folks on a budget looking into making concentrates, just remember safety first! =)

 

[killick]

Hey! I found an old thread that has exactly what I'm looking for in it! I've got the 3 qt flat pyrex chamber and a 3 CFM 2 stage pump in my cart, as well as an additional piece of 5' hose. The additional hose is for either a spare, or in case I build a cold chamber and plumb it in. Mine might be a bit ghetto (juice can with ice, below the level of the vessel and pump), unless I get keen...

I'm not so worried about the fume issue as my Bubble Buddy @herbivore21 is, mainly because I'm assuming that the chamber will hold a vacuum, and not need the vac running for extended periods of time. A minute or two to get to pressure, and the valves should handle maintaining vacuum, no? And if not that might mean another pump in a couple of years.


Heck, I've been looking around the 'free' websites looking for an old refrigerator that someone is tossing, as it's already got a compressor in it.


http://www.instructables.com/id/Making-A-Fridge-Compressor-Into-A-Vacuum-Pump/

 

[herbivore21]

Hey! I found an old thread that has exactly what I'm looking for in it! I've got the 3 qt flat pyrex chamber and a 3 CFM 2 stage pump in my cart, as well as an additional piece of 5' hose. The additional hose is for either a spare, or in case I build a cold chamber and plumb it in. Mine might be a bit ghetto (juice can with ice, below the level of the vessel and pump), unless I get keen...

I'm not so worried about the fume issue as my Bubble Buddy @herbivore21 is, mainly because I'm assuming that the chamber will hold a vacuum, and not need the vac running for extended periods of time. A minute or two to get to pressure, and the valves should handle maintaining vacuum, no? And if not that might mean another pump in a couple of years.


Heck, I've been looking around the 'free' websites looking for an old refrigerator that someone is tossing, as it's already got a compressor in it.


http://www.instructables.com/id/Making-A-Fridge-Compressor-Into-A-Vacuum-Pump/

Brother you really need to explore the literature on backflow contamination in processing of food/pharma products under vacuum to understand the various ways that oil-based pumps can fuck up your meds. There are ways to protect your medicine from this contamination, but there is a lot of know-how involved!

I'll attempt to get some sources across to you when I get a moment, but googling will help you to begin with

 

[killick]

Thanks brother - you always have the right info I've been working off this so far. https://skunkpharmresearch.com/vacuum-purging-and-processing-tips/