**Ball vape comparison megathread** Compare your balls.

[coolbreeze]

I'm kind of surprised so many people are buying like 3+ different ballers. Are they that different from eachother?

The B0 and the Z8 are pretty different, like a hammer and a scalpel, kind of. Glad to have both, but I'd definitely recommend looking at the 14mm Zs because they make the ball vape a bit more scalable in terms of hit size. Even more so in terms of temps. I haven't turned up a lot to test that but the lower temp ranges are so nice to float around in for coolness and flavor. I do think the Zirconia is a fantastic material for these, as well.

Lower temps and modest hits are not going to sell ball vapes to everyone, but the experience is exquisite and for many, I think it will be a welcome option.

 

[GratefulDread]

The B0 and the Z8 are pretty different, like a hammer and a scalpel, kind of. Glad to have both, but I'd definitely recommend looking at the 14mm Zs because they make the ball vape a bit more scalable in terms of hit size. Even more so in terms of temps. I haven't turned up a lot to test that but the lower temp ranges are so nice to float around in for coolness and flavor. I do think the Zirconia is a fantastic material for these, as well.

Lower temps and modest hits are not going to sell ball vapes to everyone, but the experience is exquisite and for many, I think it will be a welcome option.

Good to know
Sounds like I have more experimenting to do...

 

[Grass Yes]

I'm kind of surprised so many people are buying like 3+ different ballers. Are they that different from eachother?

Just to pile on here, I find mine to all be pretty different. Despite a similar form factor, the ballers that I have produce different flavors and vapor. I also find they can utilize pretty different draws from each other. My Atlas is very tasty and productive at just about all temps and draw speeds. My B1 works best at higher temps and faster inhales. My SX excels at lower temps and a nice even slow draw. Couchlog and Zenith are another couple of unique signatures too.

I don't think everyone needs multiple ballers, but I already collect vapes and they are different enough to make it worth the cost.

 

[tinctorus]

Just to pile on here, I find mine to all be pretty different. Despite a similar form factor, the ballers that I have produce different flavors and vapor. I also find they can utilize pretty different draws from each other. My Atlas is very tasty and productive at just about all temps and draw speeds. My B1 works best at higher temps and faster inhales. My SX excels at lower temps and a nice even slow draw. Couchlog and Zenith are another couple of unique signatures too.

I don't think everyone needs multiple ballers, but I already collect vapes and they are different enough to make it worth the cost.

I see you consider the atlas a ball vape as well, I find it interesting that people will argue that it's not

 

[Grass Yes]

I see you consider the atlas a ball vape as well, I find it interesting that people will argue that it's not

Haven't heard that. Definitely not a coil vape. This thread seems to like it.

 

[Cheebsy]

Any vape that uses balls as a heat exchanger is a ball vape surely!?

 

[tinctorus]

Any vape that uses balls as a heat exchanger is a ball vape surely!?

I agree but the first few pages of this thread say otherwise

 

[LesPlenty]

Is the Angus considered a ball vape then?
The Atlas ticks more of the ball vape boxes, balls, injector...only missing the dangerous exposed coil that lots have.

 

[Grass Yes]

I agree but the first few pages of this thread say otherwise

I saw there was a compelling case for excluding the Halo and HLT. I missed the Atlas being excluded.

I don't care what gets included although in my mind the TA counts but not the Angus.

 

[Cheebsy]

I consider the Angus, hlt and halo ball vapes fwiw! I don't think it needs to be an injector to qualify personally, I also think that the heat source is irrelevant.

The balls are the magic. Obviously, they don't just add mass they add surface area, but on top of that, there is the aerodynamics. Curved surfaces create pressure differences within the airstream further helping heat exchange and creating a turbulent air flow to help with an even bake at close enough distances. The turbulence is quickly fixed by flowing through a smooth walled tube so proximity to the heater is key.

 

[felvapes]

@felvapes I think a lot of the concern for these small businesses comes from seeing a lot of them (and even some of the larger ones) go out of business.

Price competition is good for consumers in the sense that they can buy more for less, but it can also be bad for everyone involved if prices are too low to sustain those businesses.

I’m already concerned about the “baller” market. It does seem to be growing as people see how effective this type of setup is, but with so many more companies getting in on it I don’t believe there is enough of a market right now to support all of them.

Maybe that’s still good for consumers on some level - having a lot of choices and then less as people choose what they like best (or what others recommend), but I don’t like seeing small businesses struggle and fail, especially those run by fellow forum members I’ve known for years.

I hope that helps you get where some of us are coming from.

Small business wins by the points I mentioned earlier
This is not a reason to price gouge

More businessess operating helps everyone
Fug the oligarchys

This is the attitude we need from all manufacturers

Zeal and Ω

Finally starting a thread for Zeal, with the next week or so I should have pictures of completed units. Possibly in the next couple days for SS version. The Zirconia version is in production also but I think it has a little more process to it. Zeal will require the coil to be stretched to 22mm...

fuckcombustion.com

 

[tinctorus]

Is the Angus considered a ball vape then?
The Atlas ticks more of the ball vape boxes, balls, injector...only missing the dangerous exposed coil that lots have.

Why would the Angus be a ball vape?

@Grass Yes why would the Anus be a ball vape? I don't have one myself but the only place I've seen people put balls is the cooling unit

 

[Grass Yes]

Why would the Angus be a ball vape?

@Grass Yes why would the Angus be a ball vape? I don't have one myself but the only place I've seen people put balls is the cooling unit

There are boro balls in the Angus around the bulb. I think they are there to even out the heat, rather than as the heat source but that is probably not a meaningful distinction.

 

[tinctorus]

There are boro balls in the Angus around the bulb. I think they are there to even out the heat, rather than as the heat source but that is probably not a meaningful distinction.

Ahh, I don't think I ever realized it had balls in it, I'll be honest I was initially excited about it but just happened to not get one at launch and it ended up being a good thing apparently

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

why would the Anus be a ball vape?

Giggity

 

[tinctorus]

Giggity

I never even caught that

 

[whatitdew]

The balls on these vapes these days, I tell yeah

 

[Vaporware]

Small business wins by the points I mentioned earlier
This is not a reason to price gouge

More businessess operating helps everyone
Fug the oligarchys

This is the attitude we need from all manufacturers

Zeal and Ω

Finally starting a thread for Zeal, with the next week or so I should have pictures of completed units. Possibly in the next couple days for SS version. The Zirconia version is in production also but I think it has a little more process to it. Zeal will require the coil to be stretched to 22mm...

fuckcombustion.com

I’m not saying anyone should price gouge, but let’s say someone is selling these at $180 each and $60 is profit and they have 2,000 potential sales this year (which I doubt any of these will reach). The maximum they could make is $120,000 which is enough to support about 1-3 people in the US.

Now let’s say 9 other devices are released, and in addition to taking equal shares of the customers (200 each), a couple of them are made by people in countries with a lower cost of living and maybe lower manufacturing costs and they somehow price theirs at $120 (it only gets worse for other sellers if that number is even lower).

The first company lowers their prices to $135 to compete and still make something, but they still look like the expensive option and their profits are down to $15. Now their maximum profit for the year is $3,000. That’s enough for one person in most of the US to live on for a month or maybe two if they really stretch it.

Most of those businesses will fail, and the ones that survive will probably still struggle.

I’m no fan of corporations; I despise walmart, amazon, etc. and I believe every business should be owned by the people who do the work (not just one of them), but in the system we’re working with right now small businesses are about the best we’re going to get.

When too many small businesses produce similar products for what is still a niche market though, few if any of them will survive.

“More businessess operating helps everyone” sounds nice and if you look at specific aspects such as potential overall market growth or driving innovation it may have some truth to it, but overall I think it’s simply not the reality in cases like this.

Also, for anyone questioning my example, I know those numbers are pulled out of my ass and they’re probably not quite what’s going on in this market, but it’s probably not crazy far off and the general dynamics of the situation still hold.

If it is the niche market I see it as, and if margins are driven down on most of the products, even if the market grows to 5x its size this year it won’t sustain most of those businesses unless they are just someone’s side projects.

 

[tinctorus]

I’m not saying anyone should price gouge, but let’s say someone is selling these at $180 each and $60 is profit and they have 2,000 potential sales this year (which I doubt any of these will reach). The maximum they could make is $120,000 which is enough to support about 1-3 people in the US.

Now let’s say 9 other devices are released, and in addition to taking equal shares of the customers (200 each), a couple of them are made by people in countries with a lower cost of living and maybe lower manufacturing costs and they somehow price theirs at $120 (it only gets worse for other sellers if that number is even lower).

The first company lowers their prices to $135 to compete and still make something, but they still look like the expensive option and their profits are down to $15. Now their maximum profit for the year is $3,000. That’s enough for one person in most of the US to live on for a month or maybe two if they really stretch it.

Most of those businesses will fail, and the ones that survive will probably still struggle.

I’m no fan of corporations; I despise walmart, amazon, etc. and I believe every business should be owned by the people who do the work (not just one of them), but in the system we’re working with right now small businesses are about the best we’re going to get.

When too many small businesses produce similar products for what is still a niche market though, few if any of them will survive.

“More businessess operating helps everyone” sounds nice and if you look at specific aspects such as potential overall market growth or driving innovation it may have some truth to it, but overall I think it’s simply not the reality in cases like this.

Also, for anyone questioning my example, I know those numbers are pulled out of my ass and they’re probably not quite what’s going on in this market, but it’s probably not crazy far off and the general dynamics of the situation still hold.

If it is the niche market I see it as, and if margins are driven down on most of the products, even if the market grows to 5x its size this year it won’t sustain most of those businesses unless they are just someone’s side projects.

Don't forget the people who only ever wanted to make 1 thing

 

[Vaporware]

Don't forget the people who only ever wanted to make 1 thing

If you’re talking about DIY stuff they’re only relevant in the fact that people can make things for themselves instead of buying any pre-build devices…is that what you mean?

 

[letter never sent]

I’m not saying anyone should price gouge, but let’s say someone is selling these at $180 each and $60 is profit and they have 2,000 potential sales this year (which I doubt any of these will reach). The maximum they could make is $120,000 which is enough to support about 1-3 people in the US.

Now let’s say 9 other devices are released, and in addition to taking equal shares of the customers (200 each), a couple of them are made by people in countries with a lower cost of living and maybe lower manufacturing costs and they somehow price theirs at $120 (it only gets worse for other sellers if that number is even lower).

The first company lowers their prices to $135 to compete and still make something, but they still look like the expensive option and their profits are down to $15. Now their maximum profit for the year is $3,000. That’s enough for one person in most of the US to live on for a month or maybe two if they really stretch it.

Most of those businesses will fail, and the ones that survive will probably still struggle.

I’m no fan of corporations; I despise walmart, amazon, etc. and I believe every business should be owned by the people who do the work (not just one of them), but in the system we’re working with right now small businesses are about the best we’re going to get.

When too many small businesses produce similar products for what is still a niche market though, few if any of them will survive.

“More businessess operating helps everyone” sounds nice and if you look at specific aspects such as potential overall market growth or driving innovation it may have some truth to it, but overall I think it’s simply not the reality in cases like this.

Also, for anyone questioning my example, I know those numbers are pulled out of my ass and they’re probably not quite what’s going on in this market, but it’s probably not crazy far off and the general dynamics of the situation still hold.

If it is the niche market I see it as, and if margins are driven down on most of the products, even if the market grows to 5x its size this year it won’t sustain most of those businesses unless they are just someone’s side projects.

Great perspective here.

 

[tinctorus]

If you’re talking about DIY stuff they’re only relevant in the fact that people can make things for themselves instead of buying any pre-build devices…is that what you mean?

No I mean I feel like some companies have only had 1 device and then nothing
The herborizer, the sublimator etc
Although apparently the sublimator is coming back

 

[babunja]

I use this one:

€ 53,82 20％ Off | Draagbare Elektrische Dab Nail Enail 20Mm Pid Temperatuurregelaar Doos Met 10Mm/16Mm/20Mm/25Mm Coil Heater Wax Droog Hery Vaporizer

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtgNLoq

But the link somehow doesn't work, I don't know what that's about. If you search in the app for "Draagbare Elektrische Dab Nail Enail" it should show up. Or search for "enail coil" and it should show up.

This is the what the listing looks like:

i bought the same pid, how does it look to you, does it work well?

 

[tinctorus]

i bought the same pid, how does it look to you, does it work well?

They're fine, it's the same as the qaroma one or mini nail, they're all pretty much the same

 

[Oden]

The important thing for me is the effectiveness and the non-dangerousness for health.
Overall for the price, a quality vaporizer shouldn't exceed $200.