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**Ball vape comparison megathread** Compare your balls.

Which ball vape do you prefer?

  • Flowerpot B0

    Votes: 44 18.2%
  • Flowerpot B1

    Votes: 67 27.7%
  • Flowerpot B2

    Votes: 43 17.8%
  • Old Head freight train

    Votes: 25 10.3%
  • Pinky

    Votes: 19 7.9%
  • Qaroma Ceroma \ Quartz

    Votes: 25 10.3%
  • Qaroma Taroma 2 \ XL

    Votes: 28 11.6%
  • DC ELEV8R with Rubies.

    Votes: 24 9.9%
  • Cloud connoisseur Halo \ Atlas

    Votes: 24 9.9%
  • DDave Extraction Contraption

    Votes: 3 1.2%

  • Total voters
    242

Oden

Well-Known Member
et essaie d'obtenir l'ensemble de la configuration avec pid/coil ruby et SS HEAD pour moins de 120 dollars, ou du moins c'est l'objectif tel que je le comprends de son message
Yes I know and it's a great gift for the community!
mais je pense que cela dépendra de vos goûts personnels. J'ai pré-commandé les deux parce que je pouvais les voir tous les deux remplir une niche dans ma routine.
I plan to get a Zeal because I really like the diffuser style of the TKO, and IDB is one of the people I want to support!
The Zeal will be different of course. It is close to B1-B2 style.
Ultimately I want to remove as much metal as possible from my vape
 

tinctorus

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
I finally got the Zirconia and sic I ordered, still waiting on another kilo of Zirconia
 
tinctorus,
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shroomi

Well-Known Member
I finally got the Zirconia and sic I ordered, still waiting on another kilo of Zirconia
I'm also thinking about ordering some Zirconia, plus some Silicon nitride (Si3N4). I found some deals on Ali, 4mm diameter 100 balls cost around 13-16 € shipped.
Have you run any tests already?
 

tinctorus

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
I'm also thinking about ordering some Zirconia, plus some Silicon nitride (Si3N4). I found some deals on Ali, 4mm diameter 100 balls cost around 13-16 € shipped.
Have you run any tests already?
I have Sin balls in one my units now as the base, I put some 6mm as the base and then Zirconia the rest of the way, i liked the way it made the airflow
I've got Sic and Zirconia/ZrO2 right now
 

Cheebsy

Microbe minion
Why would you use zirconia for the balls? They have very similar thermal properties to Boro and are more expensive, just use Boro, especially if you're just playing around with sizes for now.

Zirconia is a fantastic choice for the body. It's stronger than Boro, so it's not a crush risk with coil expansion, (can also be built to much finer tolerances) and it's not as conductive as metals so you don't lose energy to the bowl further improving convection bias. Shortening the joint improves the last point even further.
 

tinctorus

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
Why would you use zirconia for the balls? They have very similar thermal properties to Boro and are more expensive, just use Boro, especially if you're just playing around with sizes for now.

Zirconia is a fantastic choice for the body. It's stronger than Boro, so it's not a crush risk with coil expansion, (can also be built to much finer tolerances) and it's not as conductive as metals so you don't lose energy to the bowl further improving convection bias. Shortening the joint improves the last point even further.
I know on paper they look the same but that hasn't been my experience with them, they give a very snappy hit and I was able to drop Temps and still have the same effects without combustion
I'm also not charging people Zirconia or even Boro prices, I specifically bought these to give a good deal to people to try them out as a way of giving back since I'm trying to start my business and want to do it right, in not trying to get rich, just live
 

Cheebsy

Microbe minion
Ok, that's fair enough. I hope others like them too!

Good luck with the business. Maybe you should be displaying a retailer flair on your user name? Or a manufacturer's flair if you're producing vapes as well? Just so that the members are aware.
 
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felvapes

Well-Known Member
This is not really accurate though. The ZX is a zirconia (more expensive) version of the ss SX, not a more affordable version of the zirconia Z8.

Phase3 SX is also pretty competitively priced considering the fact it comes ruby filled, the TKO ss one is quite pricey in comparison. I believe the staroma, when you add the rubies, is in a similar price bracket as the SX, not sure how much their shipping is though. (Of course choice of material isn't the only differentiating aspect, but since the discussion started off comparing the prices of three zirconia ballheads it seems fair to take material as a starting point.)



This must be be directed at Phase3, as he's the one that announced the more affordable ZX after CC announced his affordable Zeal line. Phase3 put in a lot of r&d, his Z8 is a premium ball head and the affordability of his SX shows he's not trying to rip anybody off. He's also a small startup with limited products manufactured per batch, which makes it harder to get the profit margin up. It's quite the disservice to accuse a maker who's passionate about vaporizing and an active part of the community and trying to bring his innovative work to vapers of ripping his customers off.
Not directed at anyone
I know these places are full of people with alliegances and ties to things
I'm not
That was directed at the scene
In fact phase3 is one that is selling at lower prices as I mentioned - and I almost bought the zx before it sold out quickly

Mentioning things that will improve the community for everyone and pointing out issues within it does not need to be an attack on any one company
This shit needs to stop too
The staroma is SS
That has been sold for the same price as the Taroma for ages - titanium is more expensive
Let's stop pretending this is ethical

The Tiodw range is killing it for performance and price
And we can stop the big business spiel before it starts
The sellers on AliExpress are small business too - they probably struggle to make money like many small businesses and have to pay AliExpress to be on the platform - AliExpress is the big business there
And I always see this raised, but then people conveniently forget to mention the huge American companies that make all their stuff in china and sell it for extremely high prices and everyone supports them
But that seems acceptable, it's only when a Chinese company makes shit in China that people have an issue
There are a number of ballers about to enter the scene from a few new makers in US I've seen and spoken to
They are start ups not established and are small business - but are coming in saying they intend to price things affordably - we'll see when they release I guess

So no
I didn't single out anyone and wasn't trying to sneakily
You just did, I was mentioning as the post said about the whole scene and how it's been, and where it is heading in a positive manner

And I don't see why people always focus on the wrong part
As I mentioned - these new changes and the gatekeeping stopping due to diy aspect of ballers is improving things for everyone
Small business and customers - and that a win for everyone
Same with the improvements in design - that's being driven by the diy and manufacturers are refining those ideas to even better things
Less stalemate - more progress and more benefits for everyone, business and customers
 

Cheebsy

Microbe minion
Same with the improvements in design - that's being driven by the diy
That's an interesting perspective, what DIY project do you think has driven the latest trend in design, and what do you think that trend is?
 
Cheebsy,

felvapes

Well-Known Member
That's an interesting perspective, what DIY project do you think has driven the latest trend in design, and what do you think that trend is?
I'm not being roped into a conversation
There's multiple people with multiple different versions of diy ballers, they aren't all here either
And as much as I wrote that line and it does look conclusive when read back in that post

I didn't mean to say there has been no innovation or input from manufacturers
But the speed of the progress of ballers compared to other areas is because it's easy to make any number of things that are a baller and extract
So manufacturers, and diy people, are both feeding off each others ideas and inventions as we all see what things work and how they work being more open source, and the people who win from that is everyone (as it's hard to hide your tech in simple designs - but watch the over engineered ballers start up as some places feel the need to corner a market again)

So I'll cop the gotcha from my not quite descriptive enough line
But it is a combination of manufacturers and diyers pushing the progress and new releases, versions and cheaper prices
You don't see new releases so quickly from companies with any other other vapes as they release it like Microsoft and mobile phone companies do tech....
That's what I meant when I only said the diy aspect is driving it - because without that part the manufacturers slow down or take longer to come up with ideas - and charge what they want

It's happening so fast and the changes/progression/improvements and price drops is because of the diy aspect being present
But it's a combination of diy and manufacturers input and innovation bringing those things to the table
 

Abele Rizieri Ferrari

Well-Known Member
directed at anyone



single out anyone

If the allegation of price gouging wasn't directed at Phase3, then these quotes confuse me:

we are seeing American companies drop the price too proving you can run a profitable business without ripping the customer off

And:

as one American company dropped the price of its ballers - another followed almost immediately
Implying that a company that is able to release a more affordable ballhead after they had previously released a more expensive ballhead, was ripping customers off with their higher priced product. Phase3 followed their higher priced Z8 with their more affordable ZX. The ZX and its price got announced after CC had announced the Zeal and its price. To me it seems pretty obvious who you are talking about.

And you are overtly directing your words at Phase3 as well:

Then the z8 maker very soon after had the cheaper version of that head

(I won't continue this discussion, because by now it's only about interpretation of what's being said, and not at all about the actual topic.)
 

Sativapo

Well-Known Member
Can someone more aware than me sum up what are my right now or upcoming options for a 14mm injector setup ?
 
Sativapo,

felvapes

Well-Known Member




If the allegation of price gouging wasn't directed at Phase3, then these quotes confuse me:



And:


Implying that a company that is able to release a more affordable ballhead after they had previously released a more expensive ballhead, was ripping customers off with their higher priced product. Phase3 followed their higher priced Z8 with their more affordable ZX. The ZX and its price got announced after CC had announced the Zeal and its price. To me it seems pretty obvious who you are talking about.

And you are overtly directing your words at Phase3 as well:



(I won't continue this discussion, because by now it's only about interpretation of what's being said, and not at all about the actual topic.)
The z8 was manufactured elsewhere and costs more to do so, plus has a machined screen
At no point did I imply they were rorting
There's been a number of other people that mentioned the lower priced option is a response to the zeals price - even if it was a direction they planned themselves it's still a response to b2cvape type options available - and that's still a positive
That isn't saying they were rorting before, but that they now offer two options
A premium fully machined one out of Japan, or one with a mesh screen coming from a different factory that cost less to make with two different prices
This is a good thing - they win with two options for two audiences and the customers win - car brands have different but viable options for different budgets too
I didn't say they were bad once, the only reason they were used as an example (and it was meant in a positive way) was because those two manufacturers are the ones offering low priced options currently (besides b2cvape)
So it was a good mention not a bad one
But these entries to the market are a response to cheap options being available elsewhere - otherwise we would have seen them before b2cvape had a good range

It really weirds me out the way everything always gets directed to the business side and who's backing/attacking which company instead of coming from the consumer and weed enthusiasts side and pov, focusing on the points that relate to benefitting the consumer/stoner
My posts have not attacked or defended any company in particular but the way the scene is run, I did mention those two alongside b2cvape as the only ones offering more accessible options

I'm not part of any of the cliques that get around, at all
I've been focusing on the positives of what is currently happening within the scene and what things are improving the experience and accessibility for stoners accross the board

Tbh I was more critical of the staroma being the same price as the titanium version
But you pulled lines out of sentences/paragraphs to try and make out I accused a different manufacturer in order to defend them, but didn't mention the one I kinda did say something about
If we are making implications about allegiances ....

Mate most manufacturers don't want to be aligned with me
Because if something is shit I will say so and not hide it
I've had places try to buy me with gifts before and then they attack me with a group when I give honest feedback
I wasn't attacking the z8 manufacturer over the zeal at all

I was making commentary on the current progress of the scene
You're focusing on the wrong part of the story mate
They weren't the important parts
It was the open source/diy and quick progression of ballers has a been a win for us all, and so has price drops from companies following


Yay for stoners everywhere
 
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Grass Yes

Yes
Staff member
Phase3 uses 14mm. CouchLog uses 14mm. Might be others but none spring to mind.
Yeah, the only other 14mm injector that I know of is using the CH 14mm post to make a TiTi. I think @Improvaper made a 18/14 dual TiTi once. And I think @snackmaster made a 10mm one that worked with the enano GonG.

Anyway, I hope that the CL and Z8 are just the first of many 14mm injectors because I really dig them.
 

snackmaster

Well-Known Member
Yeah, the only other 14mm injector that I know of is using the CH 14mm post to make a TiTi. I think @Improvaper made a 18/14 dual TiTi once. And I think @snackmaster made a 10mm one that worked with the enano GonG.

Anyway, I hope that the CL and Z8 are just the first of many 14mm injectors because I really dig them.
I actually went the 10mm direction because I didn't have a great bowl for the 14mm titi and wasn't thrilled with how the screens fit that post. Preordered a ZX and am really looking forward to trying a proper 14mm setup.
 

Sativapo

Well-Known Member
The 14mm titi " creator" on reddit uses a female 18 to 14 adapter as a bowl. Would a 14/18 male to 14 female adapter work ?
 

Abele Rizieri Ferrari

Well-Known Member
The 14mm titi " creator" on reddit uses a female 18 to 14 adapter as a bowl. Would a 14/18 male to 14 female adapter work ?
This has been discussed before, maybe in the CL thread?

There's also dedicated threads about injector bowls:



If it works will depend on whether it fits a screen and how deep the injector enters the bowl.

Something like this might work:

 

Vaporware

Well-Known Member
@felvapes I think a lot of the concern for these small businesses comes from seeing a lot of them (and even some of the larger ones) go out of business.

Price competition is good for consumers in the sense that they can buy more for less, but it can also be bad for everyone involved if prices are too low to sustain those businesses.

I’m already concerned about the “baller” market. It does seem to be growing as people see how effective this type of setup is, but with so many more companies getting in on it I don’t believe there is enough of a market right now to support all of them.

Maybe that’s still good for consumers on some level - having a lot of choices and then less as people choose what they like best (or what others recommend), but I don’t like seeing small businesses struggle and fail, especially those run by fellow forum members I’ve known for years.

I hope that helps you get where some of us are coming from. :)
 

tinctorus

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
@felvapes I think a lot of the concern for these small businesses comes from seeing a lot of them (and even some of the larger ones) go out of business.

Price competition is good for consumers in the sense that they can buy more for less, but it can also be bad for everyone involved if prices are too low to sustain those businesses.

I’m already concerned about the “baller” market. It does seem to be growing as people see how effective this type of setup is, but with so many more companies getting in on it I don’t believe there is enough of a market right now to support all of them.

Maybe that’s still good for consumers on some level - having a lot of choices and then less as people choose what they like best (or what others recommend), but I don’t like seeing small businesses struggle and fail, especially those run by fellow forum members I’ve known for years.

I hope that helps you get where some of us are coming from. :)
While I agree there's alot of "baller" mods in not sure how many people only own 1 type 😂😂
I know I have 2 and 2 more on the way myself
 

BakedDiogenes

Well-Known Member
While I agree there's alot of "baller" mods in not sure how many people only own 1 type 😂😂
I know I have 2 and 2 more on the way myself
I own a Z8. What else could one require?

I'm kind of surprised so many people are buying like 3+ different ballers. Are they that different from eachother?
Not really. Metal versus non-metal. No such thing as a completely metal-free baller yet as machining costs would likely be fairly high to eliminate the metal screen holding balls in offered on some (one) version.
 

tinctorus

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
I'm kind of surprised so many people are buying like 3+ different ballers. Are they that different from eachother?
Yes very much so in my experience, my ceroma with Zirconia/ZrO2 hits much different than the tiodw filled with sic or even Zirconia

Also @BakedDiogenes the zeal will have Zirconia screens right after release so it will be a metal free baller
 
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