Auber Enail Discussion

[Riceandbeans]

I am the proud owner of an Auber RDK-300 and have experience with the RDK-200. IME the units perform differently with different nails and coil pairings. Im curious to see which temperatures people are running on what setups and maybe glean some knowledge to get that temp dial perfect.

Hardware: Auber RDK 300, Dnail 16mm coil, HE OG Enail w/sapphire insert
Temps: small dabs 720, big dabs 730

And now a question: When I first got my unit it would heat up quickly, stop for a while then creep up VERY slowly. I emailed auber and they promptly and politely told me that the problem is due to the combination of high heat loss of the nail design, lower power coil, and high setting temperature. They said I should reduce the P to 100 and increase IEg to 60 which solved the problem! However with Quartz halo coming in the mail any day will I need to adjust my PID again for a flat Dnail coil?

 

[reskey]

The quartz halo heats up pretty good with the stock setting. The SIC dabs fine at around 625 for me, but cranking up the temps to clean it has it stalling at around 740f when set to 800f. I haven't found how to fix this with any of the parameters, so I normally just crank it up to 865f and it idles around 800f.

 

[Riceandbeans]

SIC is definitely incredible if you're successfully dabbing at those temps! But what controller and coil are you using? Also the quartz halo arrived today and it pains me to say it but, for the record it is not compatible with an HE OG base or carb cap.

 

[reskey]

RDK-300 and flat coil

 

[MileHighLife]

The quartz halo heats up pretty good with the stock setting. The SIC dabs fine at around 625 for me, but cranking up the temps to clean it has it stalling at around 740f when set to 800f. I haven't found how to fix this with any of the parameters, so I normally just crank it up to 865f and it idles around 800f.

Under access code 177 change IEG to 100 and your unit should work properly at high temperatures.

I am the proud owner of an Auber RDK-300 and have experience with the RDK-200. IME the units perform differently with different nails and coil pairings. Im curious to see which temperatures people are running on what setups and maybe glean some knowledge to get that temp dial perfect.

Hardware: Auber RDK 300, Dnail 16mm coil, HE OG Enail w/sapphire insert
Temps: small dabs 720, big dabs 730

And now a question: When I first got my unit it would heat up quickly, stop for a while then creep up VERY slowly. I emailed auber and they promptly and politely told me that the problem is due to the combination of high heat loss of the nail design, lower power coil, and high setting temperature. They said I should reduce the P to 100 and increase IEg to 60 which solved the problem! However with Quartz halo coming in the mail any day will I need to adjust my PID again for a flat Dnail coil?

You'll also want to change your IEG to 100 if you're having problems reaching high temps for cleaning. Also, changing the I value from 60 to 30 while keeping the P value at 125 helps to get up to temp more quickly and keep the temp more stable. I find dropping P value tends to make the temps less stable during dabs but I'm sure that's different with barrel coils. Dropping I from 60 to 30 will make you over-shoot 15 - 20 degrees when heating up but it'll drop back down to the set temp very quickly due to the lower I value.

Edit: did you ever find a base for your dish?

 

[reskey]

What is the IEG value? Not sure if I know it by another name?

Edit: I didn't know there was an access code 177? If this is the rdk-300, what manual are you seeing that in?

 

[MileHighLife]

What is the IEG value? Not sure if I know it by another name?

Edit: I didn't know there was an access code 177? If this is the rdk-300, what manual are you seeing that in?

My unit wouldn't get to high temps either so I contacted Auber and they instructed me to follow those steps and it worked. A google search turns up nothing but Auber says it's the "integration band".

 

[reskey]

Good gawd, a secret code! This junx is just like Super Mario Bros, so heat up nail, beat boss in dungeon, rescue the princess.

 

[Riceandbeans]

@MileHighLife, I ended up biting the bullet and ordered a slim series set and a V2 cap. They came early and so the setup is now complete!

When I contacted Auber because my barrel coils were taking forever to heat up past 725º they told me to increase the IEg under code 177 and lower P under 166. I wanted to see if the old PID setting would work with my new flat coil and slim series washer so I turned on my controller but the right away the coil started glowing bright red. I turned off the enail and decided I was gonna have to change some settings, and after a little trial and error Iv found I like setting P to 125 and IEg to 45. It heats up in 5 minutes and 20 seconds which is kinda slow but theres no overshoot and Iv only ever experienced it fluctuate by 1º.

Also I know that most controllers show the coil temperature not the temperature of the nail which is usually lower. An RDK 200 or 300 can account for this and I saw this in the RDK-300 supplementary manual:

"The temperature difference is determined by the thermal conductivities, the surface/mass ratio, and the ambient temperature. This difference between the 3 sensor tip and ambient temperature is proportional to the coil temperature over the entire heating range. The correction is done by multiplying the measured temperature by a coefficient PSL. The default value is 1.00, which means no correction applied (see Table 2). For the 15.8 mm coil and nail that we offer, PSL should be set to 1.28 if you want the display to show the nail temperature." http://auberins.com/images/Manual/RDK-300_supplementary.pdf

I wonder what the PSL should be for a the quartz halo.

 

[Gonzo_da_wind]

Hey so ai own a Auber rdk200 with the stock 20mm coil. Using the CCA Liger V2 currently no insert. And my temp seems to have a hard time getting above 600 however once it does it will overshopt my set temp by like 8-12f then lower to about 5f above and stabalize (( except for normal small fluctataions)) whats gping on if used to run fine actually used tp have little a lil issue gettin above 700ish but but its now over heating which is worse

 

[MileHighLife]

@MileHighLife,
I wonder what the PSL should be for a the quartz halo.

It's easy to figure it out. K type thermometers are cheap and that's all you need to dial it in. Just divide the set temp of your box by the actual temp of your nail and you have your PSL.

 

[Riceandbeans]

Welcome @Gonzo_da_wind, try increasing the IEg to 60 or 100 and report back. My IEg is at 80 and although not perfect it seems like an improvement in terms of heat up time and not overshooting.

@MileHighLife I found this thermometer which apparently you plug a k type thermocouple into on the Auber website. However I suspect that it may be a bit overkill because the temperature difference between coil and nail cant be that drastic:
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17&products_id=199

The cheaper thermometers on amazon look different though so I have no clue:
http://www.amazon.com/AGPtek®-Digital-Channel-Thermometer-Thermocouple/dp/B0084JQL1Q

Im sure it varies between nails but on average how much cooler is the nail than the coil? because Im not yet convinced the temperature difference merits a special dabbing thermometer. This whole PSL thing makes me wonder if I should be adjusting the PID for different nail materials and designs tho.

 

[MileHighLife]

Welcome @Gonzo_da_wind, try increasing the IEg to 60 or 100 and report back. My IEg is at 80 and although not perfect it seems like an improvement in terms of heat up time and not overshooting.

@MileHighLife I found this thermometer which apparently you plug a k type thermocouple into on the Auber website. However I suspect that it may be a bit overkill because the temperature difference between coil and nail cant be that drastic:
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17&products_id=199

The cheaper thermometers on amazon look different though so I have no clue:
http://www.amazon.com/AGPtek®-Digital-Channel-Thermometer-Thermocouple/dp/B0084JQL1Q

Im sure it varies between nails but on average how much cooler is the nail than the coil? because Im not yet convinced the temperature difference merits a special dabbing thermometer. This whole PSL thing makes me wonder if I should be adjusting the PID for different nail materials and designs tho.

I use the Amazon one you linked to. Seems to work fine when comparing temps between it and 2 ir temp guns. The nail will be around about 100 F cooler than the set temp.

 

[Riceandbeans]

@MileHighLife, it sounds like you've done the math! Are the IR guns accuracte at all compared to the thermometer?

I figured that the titanium washer might not be helping with the 100º temperature difference so I took it out. I wish I had a thermometer to prove if it actually helped but it did seem like there were less vapor trails.

 

[Gonzo_da_wind]

IR temperature guns dont read metals temperature accurately...if you havent id try adjusting emission settings. Then testing again but over all thermocouple would be more accurate....

@MileHighLife, it sounds like you've done the math! Are the IR guns accuracte at all compared to the thermometer?

I figured that the titanium washer might not be helping with the 100º temperature difference so I took it out. I wish I had a thermometer to prove if it actually helped but it did seem like there were less vapor trails.

 

[MileHighLife]

@MileHighLife, it sounds like you've done the math! Are the IR guns accuracte at all compared to the thermometer?

I figured that the titanium washer might not be helping with the 100º temperature difference so I took it out. I wish I had a thermometer to prove if it actually helped but it did seem like there were less vapor trails.

IR temperature guns dont read metals temperature accurately...if you havent id try adjusting emission settings. Then testing again but over all thermocouple would be more accurate....

Yeah ir guns aren't that great for this purpose.

 

[Gonzo_da_wind]

Would this be sufficient for measuring the temp difference Between CO IL And NAIL http://www.coleparmer.com/Product.aspx?ProductID=UX-95001-02

 

[Riceandbeans]

DNail just delivered the answer to my problems! A Heater/Nail difference calculator, just put in what temp you like or what temp you want to try and it will tell you what to set your controller to for your nail design. I started working backwards from an average of the DNail SIC Halo numbers to find the PSL. A heater set to 725º will heat the dish to 644°F – 650°F. With my calculator I found mostly a PSL of 1.12 (That can overcompensate by almost 2º.) but occasionally PSL of 1.119 (which can undercompensate by nearly 2º). Does that PSL of approximately 1.12 sound right to anyone?

I have not calculated a PSL for my quartz halo yet but on the calculator its says for dabs at 650º to use a heater temp between 831°F – 886°F. I knew the quartz was gonna have a big temperature difference compared to the SIC but I was surprised by the 40º range in average temperatures. Anyway heres the link: http://www.d-nail.com/info/calculator/

 

[reskey]

I am using around 680f for the quartz halo, +-5. I am using the PSL for the flat coil and IEG @ 80. I initially considered getting a k-type thermometer, but I don't see it being very beneficial anymore. I have been within 5 or 10 degrees of what others are getting on a somewhat similar setup. I've made small adjustments when the glass, concentrates, or even the ambient temps change, dabbing outdoors. I am probably the odd ball, but knowing the approximate coil temp seems to give a better perspective on how the Auber unit and whatever glass nail setup I choose react, and how the setups relate to each other.

 

[Riceandbeans]

@reskey, Coil temp is definitely useful for its own reasons, in a perfect world there would be 3 readouts one for set temp, coil temp and nail temp. Personally I like nail temp. But what PSL value are you on the quartz halo? Based on the Dnail numbers I found a PSL of around 1.31 or 1.30. Does that sound right?

My PSL calculations based on the Dnail numbers seem to vary much more with the quartz halo which is frustrating because I bet there is one right PSL number. I think the variation is due to the 40º range of temperatures on the quartz dish. The SIC by comparison has a 6º range in temperatures across its dish.

To check my numbers just divide your coil temperature on the box by the nail temperature and you will have a PSL ratio. If like me you don't have a thermometer you can use a little more math and numbers from the Dnail temp calculator: http://www.d-nail.com/info/calculator/

 

[Riceandbeans]

Also when I said

occasionally PSL of 1.119

I meant 1.19

 

[reskey]

@Riceandbeans
I am using 1.13 PSL with flat coil for all my nails.

 

[Gonzo_da_wind]

Any idea setting for 20mm encased coil's from dnail 110 watts I think?

 

[Riceandbeans]

@Gonzo_da_wind, I think the PSL has more to do with the nail you are using because different materials move heat differently and some designs hold heat better than others. For instance a SIC Halo through which heat travels quickly would need less of an adjustment compared to a Quartz Halo which takes longer to heat up. (But stays hot longer)

If you coil still isn't heating up right you might contact Auber. I don't have any experience with a encased coil but they probably do.

 

[Kanna_Kult]

I picked up a rdk 300 with a flat coil and Dnail slimline/sic halo for my first email purchase a while back and I'm just curious if anyone else who has the same set up knows if it's normal to have the temp drop 18-28F when I take the dab, I don't usually take HUGE dabs or anything and I usually dab around 582-629F