Athlete Vaporists?

[VapeEscapist]

 

[Cannabiker]

@EverythingsHazy nice insight. Sounds like you've been there done that?

Nice ride @Cannabiker ! Just missing a rear suspension What make is that?

It's now painfully obvious that I have to look into platform pedals. I may transition when my current clipless ones wear out. I'm out of touch with current tech. I've been in clipless ever since clip & strap pedals went away. These platform pedals may help avoid a spill or two, not sure (sometimes when you're going down, you're just going down). Can you wear any old shoe with them or do they assume the puchase of special shoe?

Thanks; it's custom, by a local frame builder. We based the geometry on a mix of my old bike, a Canfield Nimble Nine, and a Chromag Rootdown. The front end is long and slack, while the rear triangle is short and tight. I've owned full suspension, but I prefer hardtails. I love the instant response that you can't get with rear suspension. For instance, if I lean back on the bars, the front end lightens up, with no delay while the rear suspension compresses.

You can use platforms with any shoe. I use them on my commuters, usually wearing Vans. However, for mountain biking I use Five Tens, shoes with a sticky rubber sole. Combined with the pins on the pedal, they won't move unless you lift your foot. I don't necessarily think they'll help reduce crashes, unless you're wrecking because you have trouble releasing. I've ridden both extensively, and I don't find clipless any more dangerous. I just find platforms more versatile--I can change foot position for different effect.

I also don't believe there's any significant gain from clipless. There was a great study where riders were asked how much power they got on the backstroke. Predictably, most said, "I'm pulling up like a mofo. It's like having an extra leg." When tested, however, it turned out few were getting any power from the backstroke; many actually had weight on the back pedal. And the riders who were getting some backstroke power were usually giving up force on the more important downstroke.

Sure, there is some minor advantage, especially for highly-trained riders. If there weren't, you'd see a few riders on platforms in the Tour de France. But it is worth noting that in enduro racing, a pursuit that involves a good deal of pedaling and fitness, one of the most dominant riders (Sam Hill) won for years on platforms, against a field of racers on clipless.

If you don't believe me, this guy has assembled 70 pages of science and anecdote to back it up: https://pedalinginnovations.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Flat-Pedal-Revolution-Manifesto-v3.5.pdf. One of my favorite parts is where he describes how the hamstrings, which power the backstroke, are puny little muscles intended to do nothing more than lift your leg so you can swing your foot forward. It's your quads that really provide the power, so using them to their fullest is more efficient than trying to milk a little extra torque from your hamstrings.

Another great piece of evidence in the manifesto comes from Global Cycling Network, using laboratory conditions to demonstrate:

.

Giving up clipless does feel like you're leaving some power on the table, but it's illusory. I don't think you'll be disappointed if you switch to flat pedals.

 

[VapeEscapist]

Thanks; it's custom, by a local frame builder. We based the geometry on a mix of my old bike, a Canfield Nimble Nine, and a Chromag Rootdown.

One day I hope to have a custom titanium hybrid made, likely from my FXS4 geometry.

Thank you for the input RE: clipless. I hadn't researched it to that depth in a long time. Even what I read some 10 years ago had drawn similar conclusions. So, I quoted 10% gains, when it's actually less for most cyclists...

I find when I draft people it makes a huge difference in most conditions, and thankfully road cyclists don't seem to mind, maybe taking pity on the heavier guy on a heavier bike, with little aero. If I catch the draft of a roadie, I can usually pace them quite easily.

Out of curiousity.... what kind of bike is your commuter?

 

[Cannabiker]

Out of curiousity.... what kind of bike is your commuter?

I switch between two, depending on weather and load. If it's raining, or I have to carry much, I use my Surly Long Haul Trucker, with fenders and front and rear racks. For weekly trips to the Farmer's Market, I add a B.O.B. trailer to haul a week's worth of produce. That's the rig in my avatar photo, carrying a couple of starts on the first day it was legal to do so here in Oregon--I saw a lot of people snapping photos with their phones that day.

The other is an old Gunnar Roadie, for dry days when I don't need more than a messenger bag. I love using fast, racy bikes for commuting--not because I'm fast and racy, but because I'm lazy. That bike goes faster for less effort--it wants to pedal itself.

 

[vapirtoo]

Cannabiker,
Great info on pedals, I enjoy a seamless spin and clipless
add to that feeling. Bike racers need them for all of the accelerations
and the slight mental advantage. Ever see a pro crack in a race?
Mostly mental. IMHO And physical exhaustion.
My old full suspension MTB has flat pedals.
And yeah, hard tails rule with their precision.
I'm an old softy.

 

[GetLeft]

My first mtb was rigid. Great for riding where I was at the time (pre-suspension days). It's still in my basement. I could clean it up tomorrow and be out on it the next day. But where I ride now is significantly rocks-and-roots territory. Without a full suspension I'm bounced around and sacrifice control. I unclip too often. And it's rougher on the joints (what I mean by that mostly is the butt). I was twenty some years younger than I am now when I first started riding these trails on my rigid and I remember--with a background at the time of mostly milder riding grounds--wondering how on earth anyone enjoyed riding these trails. Not to mention those folks who love trails that are even rockier than where I ride. I can take 10-15 minute stretches of the rocks but when it gets longer I lose enthusiasm. I abandoned the rigid after I realized I wasn't riding as much becuase I wasn't enjoying as much. So I upgraded to a front suspension. Didn't add enough control. Riders with full suspensions were still zipping up and down and all around. I felt like I was not capitalizing on tech so I went full suspension and it made a great difference for me.

@vapirtoo I love watching the grand tours. I'd watch a stage every day of the week if there were one to watch. The Vuelta this year was a blast. Streamed it from some British service this year. Two commentators covered the last few hours of racing each day; on big race days they covered from start to finish. At first it was annoying listening to the nonstop verbage but after a few days of listening to the constant chat about the race and the riders (without all the typical US coverage with commercials and 'entertainment' pieces sliced into the race) viewers develop a good sense of what it's like to do a grand tour. All I can say is the cyclists are amazing creatures. Incomprehensible in my mind. Hundred miles a day for three weeks at break neck speeds almost the entire way. Freaking unhuman almost. (Better stop here before I start going off on all the doping.) Can't wait for the Giro!

EDIT to stay on topic. I've found Golden Goat to be a very effective pre-ride strain. Careful about stopping for breaks, though. You'll feel so good and enjoy looking around so much that it will be hard to get going again.

 

[kel]

I always liked my hard hard mtb too... something about having complete connection and control - the flex of steel, relying on strength of knees and elbows - the best suspension you can get (when you are young anyway haha).

I must admit though, since I picked up a hardtail Specialised Fuse, the size of the wheels, the gear ratios, the suspension and drop seat are all extreme luxury features that make riding over rocks a breeze... it's very impressive!

 

[CANtalk]

Nice to see people getting out and hope everyone can. I missed a few days but had family around and also needed some recovery. I did get out for another ~17 mile ride again after that, and it was great. I tackled the two most challenging trails in the area again.... very rewarding, and a lung buster. I hope to get out tomorrow for another good ride.

@VapeEscapist, ya those single chainring MTB setups have dinner plate sized cassettes .

@GetLeft, You can use many types of shoes with them though a wider cross trainer shoe is generally preferred... and there are many specialized MTB flat pedal shoes which work even better (w/ grippy soles, weather protection, specific flex points, etc). I'd buy dedicated shoes for either flat pedals or clipless, fwiw.

Hope you're feeling better @kel, I stepped on something and now an arch is sore ... we'll see how it affects my riding, but stiff clipless MTB riding shoes should help.



Hardtails are nice and I went for one as my first high end MTB over full sus back in the day. I love their efficiency. I still have that first really nice hardtail MTB I picked up ~25 years ago and it's a fun ride. It has an aluminum frame, which I prefer over steel... more lively (feedback). I hope to do a complete rebuild when I have money. Custom built bike frames are definitely into big enthusiast territory... sweet !

I'm surprised at the number of clipless bike riders here , cool ! Uggh, the clipless vs flat/platform pedal debate... I find it's not as simple as people may think. Flat/platform pedals aren't really equivalent to clipless. Nor are clipless pedals necessarily "better"/superior to platforms. As with every choice in life, clipless vs platform pedals each offers their own advantages and disadvantages. And there are fans of each. Being clipped in also offers some advantages in real-life riding beyond efficiency... and especially MTB riding. There are lots of good comparisons on both types of pedals which are worth checking out to those interested (both video and reads). E.g.,

Enjoy this video @Nina!

All these reads are less than a year old.

Pedal Prizefight: Flat vs. Clipless MTB Pedals

Nothing riles up mountain bikers like a good pedal debate. Every rider has different needs and preferences. Each MTB pedal system has pros and cons. We take a closer look so you can decide what's best for you.

www.theproscloset.com

Clipless vs flat pedals: which is better for mountain biking?

Clipless vs flat pedals, which is better for mountain biking? Learn the pros and cons for each and decide which is best for your riding.

twowheeledwanderer.com

Flat or clipless pedals: which is right for you?

We delve into the pros and cons of flat and clip-in pedals for the commuter, mountain biker, road and gravel cyclist

www.bikeradar.com

Fwiw, I find that earlier pdf link posted on platform pedals a good but somewhat misleading piece... it's put together by a major manufacturer of platform petals, so it pumps platforms hard. And earlier studies evaluating the efficiency of different pedal types have some significant limitations that do not translate well to real world riding. Nor are benefits of clipless pedals centered around the upstroke of pedaling, let alone just being about "efficiency". For those interested in the latest on pedal efficiency, here's a more recent evaluation and 2020 pedal study. Spoiler... clipless were more efficient and it was >15% under some conditions.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19424280.2020.1769201

From the Bike Radar article.

... [This recent] outdoor sprint test showed that clipped in cycling shoes increased maximum power in a sprint by an average of 16.6 per cent over the trainer/flat pedal combo, while toe clips and straps added 9.7 per cent, so if you’re riding harder you’ll probably find a benefit from using cycling shoes and clipless pedals.

Overall, the majority of riders in many cycling competitions are using clipless pedals (and chains) to ride, compete and win... not only on the road where everyone clips in, but XC MTB too, plus enduro and downhill racing where clipless pedals aren't necessarily used for their "efficiency". Yes, Sam Hill can win enduro and downhill MTB races on flats, but he's one of the biggest riding talents in the world. And that simply shows rider skills (and preferences) matter more than most anything, to which I say "of course"! Look at Aaron Gwin winning a MTB downhill race chainless... I wouldn't advise going chainless . Most all of my rides are long distance MTB trails, with single track, many many climbs (and sprint climbs, often to cardio exhaustion), descents, technical terrain, bumps/roots/rocks/drops/features/etc... and the benefit of being locked in to the bike really helps my trail riding (in a number of ways... bringing a whole package of benefits). This lines up with lots of the talk in the links I shared above.

With all that in mind and in general, my advice for people who like cycling and do much of it is to think about how they ride and what they want from their pedals. For many cycling disciplines, it's worth trying both clipless pedals as well as flats... see what YOU like as everyone is different . Lots of fans of each, lots of merit to each. Some riders even have both types of pedals and switch it up depending on the type of riding or trails they do. A couple bikes helps things too . My hardtail is on flat pedals.





Get out, exercise and enjoy the outdoors everyone! Have a great weekend.

 

[kel]

Thank you, I am okay, definitely improving, again haha! I have been out for a little run in the sunshine today!! It's just the never ending pain of running the way I do, and well, just my life in general. My hope is that one day the running will make me so strong that I might actually be able to experience what it is like to live pain free one day

 

[VapeEscapist]

Generally, my advice is, for people who like cycling and do much of it, to think about how they ride and what they want from their pedals. For most cycling disciplines, it's worth trying both clipless pedals as well as flats. See what YOU like, as everyone is different . Some riders even like to have both types of pedals and switch it up depending on the type of riding or trails they do.

For my purposes, in this city, I don't think clipless will ever make sense. I commute 2 hours 3-5 days a week, and I do 50+ mile rides for recreation, but we're talking dense urban areas where fatalities and major injuries are extremely high, and where you deal with many many stops and starts. If I ever move somewhere where it makes sense to have clipless, where I can ride for more than 15 minutes at a time without stopping, I'm sure I'll give it a try. In these conditions, I'm not giving up a nano second of response time for 15% more power to the pedals.

I just met someone who said everyone they know who cycles in NYC has been hit by a car... Except me. In 11 years I've hyper extended a shoulder, have scar tissue for knees and elbows, but no broken bones.

To save time/go faster, many guys also run red lights and stop signs, don't yield to pedestrians, ride against traffic, swerve between cars, and ride on sidewalks. The absolutely suicidal stuff I see on the roads here would blow your mind. There was a just a protest for safer streets partly spurred on by a guy running a light and killing a mother and newborn.

My personal finish line is 40 years away, not 40 miles away.

 

[Helios]

Good posts here, saw that video while ago @Cannabiker my city riding days are chapters gone, been rocking (egg beaters)Clipless on the rail trails up here in the HV, 7years now, love riding strapped in for long rides, feel more connected to the bike, I'm itching lately for a Mint bike getting bored of the flats.

 

[CANtalk]

More wild MTB.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

@EverythingsHazy nice insight. Sounds like you've been there done that?

Thanks! Yea, I've been training MMA for a long time & I'm currently an active BJJ competitor. I make sure to be aware of which techniques are most applicable on the street, and ones that are best suited for BJJ or MMA competition environments, and for the most part, the easiest divider is whether or not your back is on the ground.

I've spent a decent amount of time training on dirt, grass, and even turf, in parks, and my knees and elbows have gotten messed up, even when it didn't feel too bad at the time. Concrete would be nasty. I mean, you gotta do what you gotta do, but if I can avoid getting bloodied up, I'm going to try to do so.

There's also less limitation on the strikes that one can use against a "grounded opponent" in the street than there is in competition, where head kicks and knees are often illegal, so there's no need to go for a submission finish in the street. If the person is able to continue fighting after being thrown onto the floor, a kick or two should suffice to finish them off. That said, a standing guillotine would be pretty easy to land most of the time, so a submission isn't out of the question.

I'm not an athlete lol but i like to ride my bike for exercise, and i find that if i vape a bit of THC/CBD bud (1:6 ratio) before a bike ride it improves my endurance quite a bit. Ive also found that in the winter months it can help stop that dreaded 'sports effected asthma' and my airways do not end up inflamed. I wouldnt recommend consuming a lot before going though its about trial and error until you get the amount right

Have you ever hear dof the Buteyko breathing method? Combined with some other breathing exercises in the book "Oxygen Advantage", some people have supposedly helped alleviate exercised induce asthma. The author's main claim is that mouth breathing, and excessive breathing depletes CO2 stores, past the point where your body can effectively utilize the oxygen you are inhaling, which can cause loss of breath control. You might want to look into and ask your doctor about your BOLT score, and how that can affect your asthma.

 

[Vape_ninja]

Thanks! Yea, I've been training MMA for a long time & I'm currently an active BJJ competitor. I make sure to be aware of which techniques are most applicable on the street, and ones that are best suited for BJJ or MMA competition environments, and for the most part, the easiest divider is whether or not your back is on the ground.

I've spent a decent amount of time training on dirt, grass, and even turf, in parks, and my knees and elbows have gotten messed up, even when it didn't feel too bad at the time. Concrete would be nasty. I mean, you gotta do what you gotta do, but if I can avoid getting bloodied up, I'm going to try to do so.

There's also less limitation on the strikes that one can use against a "grounded opponent" in the street than there is in competition, where head kicks and knees are often illegal, so there's no need to go for a submission finish in the street. If the person is able to continue fighting after being thrown onto the floor, a kick or two should suffice to finish them off. That said, a standing guillotine would be pretty easy to land most of the time, so a submission isn't out of the question.


Have you ever hear dof the Buteyko breathing method? Combined with some other breathing exercises in the book "Oxygen Advantage", some people have supposedly helped alleviate exercised induce asthma. The author's main claim is that mouth breathing, and excessive breathing depletes CO2 stores, past the point where your body can effectively utilize the oxygen you are inhaling, which can cause loss of breath control. You might want to look into and ask your doctor about your BOLT score, and how that can affect your asthma.

Ill look into that thanks, when you say mouth breathing though, does this include in through nostrils out through the mouth (imagine you reach a big long hill for example)

Unfortunately i dont really have a regular doctor so cant ask them about anything

 

[macbill]

Why more professional athletes are depending on cannabis

Why an increasing number of pro athletes are using cannabis — and saying it helps raise their game.

nypost.com

 

[CANtalk]

Who else is out there exercising? The weather has been turning to fall significantly for a while around here and I see the writing on the wall for my MTB riding season. So it's time to double down and get out there when the weather cooperates! Today maybe the last 80F day of the season, so I made sure to get out on the MTB. I left around ~10:30 am and made sure to get onto the two most challenging trails in the area again, early as the start of a long ride. It was lots of fun, I rode them back to back for a change too, but it became apparent I didn't have much "gas in the tank". I climbed and sprint climbed to cardio exhaustion more than usual and pulled the plug on a big long ride (was hoping to go >40 miles), instead going for 22 miles in ~2 hrs. After the ride I was really bagged.... laid down for a while . I hit something hard with my left crank in a spot I wasn't expecting on trail, became unclipped and smacked my ankle pretty good. It was a notable stinger for a bit, going away as I continued the ride and feels fine at the moment.... hopefully it's fine tomorrow too. Now it's time for an energy drink and to vape some Maui Wowie (strong sativa), my favorite wake-n-bake strain .

Hope everyone is getting out there and enjoying themselves in good weather. Have a great weekend!

 

[kel]

Sounds great

I'm a year round literally all weather runner, the only time I won't go out is when the wind is strong enough to physically stop me or there's a thunderstorm right overhead - hopefully they are both obvious reasons

I especially love running in in the winter, ice and snow is fun with spikes!!

As it happens the weather is lovely here at the moment ~20°C cloudy, sunny with odd bits of rain

 

[kel]

Third short run in as many days today, feeling the power come back going uphill and the downhills aren't making my ass hurt so much any more, a few more days of this and I will be back to running longer distances perhaps... fingers crossed!!

Although I admit, I am enjoying the short fast runs at the moment... nice to be able to put as much energy as possible into running up one of the hills knowing it's the last one I will have to do on that run, getting to the top at the limit of my physical capabilities of my heart and lungs, timing it just right so the point at which I stop to open the gate at the top is the time I really need to slow down for a bit of active recovery before heading back along the track and down!

 

[vapirtoo]

Old coach says,
60 meter uphill x 6; 80 percent effort.
Skip the downhill for active recovery.
Should be short and fun, but brutal near
the last rep.
You hard core fuckers
try 10 reps at 90 percent effort.
I can do 6 at 40 percent LOL

 

[kel]

I have a choice of 7 or maybe 8 different and significant inclines to choose from within my regular routes, not including the gradual rises. One is almost steep enough to get hands on the ground, the others gradually less steep until one is quite long but definitely up! I can just about imagine doing the least steep one 6 times, but would be wary of going so far as skipping down it as it's too rocky and uneven.

Honestly, I feel like it's an achievement every time I manage to get up them once

 

[CANtalk]

Nice 72F temp today so I hauled my ass out on the MTB. It was an ~11 mile trail ride and I took it easy... no hardcore trails and the overall ride was excellent . Totally worth it & fun. End of season is coming here soon!

Hope everyone is enjoying the weekend with some exercise. Cheers and have a great Sunday

 

[EverythingsHazy]

Ill look into that thanks, when you say mouth breathing though, does this include in through nostrils out through the mouth (imagine you reach a big long hill for example)

Unfortunately i dont really have a regular doctor so cant ask them about anything

According to Patrick McKeown, the author of "The Oxygen Advantage", we shoudl be using nasal only breathing for both inhales and exhales, for most of the time. He even suggests lightly taping your mouth at night, so that you don't revert to mouth breathing, which is pretty common, and has a bunch of negative effects, including bad breath, tooth decay, and a potentially lower BOLT score, which can be associated with breathing issues including exercise induced asthmatic attacks. Note, I'm not advising anyone to do this, or anything else I am mentioning. I'm merely passing on what I've read and watched.

Your BOLT score is basically a measure of how long it takes after an exhale for your body to trigger the sensations of needing to breathe. It's NOT a measure of how long you can hold your breath, which is affected by a number of things, including one's will to keep going despite initial discomfort. There are a few videos on YouTube, where Patrick goes a bit more into depth about the BOLT measurement.

I have been a predominantly mouth breathing person for most of my life, due to chronic swelling of my nasal passages, which blowing my nose did NOT help. If anything, the harder I blew my nose, the worse it got, due to the strain. Now, I use Arm & Hammer nasal spray (saline w/ sodium bicarbonate) to rinse my nose when I blow it, and just forcing myself to use my nose has seemingly caused my body to adapt, and I can now breathe through my nose perfectly fine, almost all the time, and when I get stuffy, or if my nose gets dry, I use the spray and it's clear again, in a few minutes.

This part, I can't test myself, because I ndon't have exercise induced asthma, but he says that if you are only nose breathing during your training, you should be less likely to induce an attack, because you will be less likely to blow out too much CO2 which basically locks your oxygen in your blood and out of your muscles and other tissues. If you feel like you need to start breathing through your mouth, he suggests slowing down. He says that eventually, you will adapt and be able to push harder while using only nasal breathing. I'm not able to push pretty hard on my bike, and also in MMA training, using my mouth to breathe, only when I absolutely need to.

 

[His_Highness]

I gotta get back into running regularly. The only running I've been doing lately has been to run down to the dispensary.

I go through these bouts of "not today" or should I say "we" do. My wife is a power walker / speed walker and usually we keep each other motivated but there are those times, like now, where we both slacked at the same time. We agreed last night that today is the day we stop talking and start doing.....again. Maybe we'll break out the bicycle built for two.....fun is motivating.....

 

[kel]

I gotta get back into running regularly. The only running I've been doing lately has been to run down to the dispensary.

I go through these bouts of "not today" or should I say "we" do. My wife is a power walker / speed walker and usually we keep each other motivated but there are those times, like now, where we both slacked at the same time. We agreed last night that today is the day we stop talking and start doing.....again. Maybe we'll break out the bicycle built for two.....fun is motivating.....

Would you like a monitor? Like "I am going to challenge you to see if you have been out for your run today" kinda thing?

Talking of which, the minutes are ticking by... I need to keep an eye on the clock... or... seeing as it is a full moon, or very nearly and it has been very bright the last night or two... I might try a night run?

 

[His_Highness]

Would you like a monitor? Like "I am going to challenge you to see if you have been out for your run today" kinda thing?

Talking of which, the minutes are ticking by... I need to keep an eye on the clock... or... seeing as it is a full moon, or very nearly and it has been very bright the last night or two... I might try a night run?

No monitor needed...we are already shaming each other for tonight's run/walk

I prefer running at night. The darkness causes a focus of the senses for me....without the visual distractions breathing, music, overall physicality and thoughts are enhanced. Being from Florida it also helps avoid the heat. Another benefit is the high is also more "there" for some reason....kind of like getting high, sitting in the dark and listening to music.