Arthritis and Cannabis

[Seasider]

I've been using medicinal cannabis for about a year, on prescription in UK. I've used it other than that for about 40 years. But now it really helps to get good quality, well cured and a variety that helps me.
I've severely arthritic knees and hands are v painful. Shoulder and back msk issues too.
I've found the best thing without a doubt, for me, has been cannabis oil. I take 0.7ml under my tongue in the evening. You titrate up v gradually to find the amount that works for you. I found 1ml was a little strong and left me a little sluggish.
Its a 20mg thc and 10mg cbd mix Adven by Rockshaw via curaleaf and sapphire clinics.
Really really helps with sleep and reduces inflammation generally.
I went to the US recently where I couldn't take my medication and really missed it, especially after about a week. Pain levels right up.
I also vape high thc flowers, during the day. I've gone through hundreds of pounds in mediocre various devices but have now bought a brand new volcano classic, with a reducer and capsules, it makes my med go much way further than anything I've found, no waste and works really well.
I find cbd increases my anxiety.
I prefer the 25% thc and under 1mg cbd ones, especially LA Kush Cake, a cross between girl scout cookies and something else.. and another one I find even better, its called T 16 with Curaleaf, can't remember the name, with a strawberry flavour, that's even better. I'll check and add it in here.
The oil is fast acting but lasts a long time, so do increase as per docs instructions. The flowers don't last too long but taste nice and do def. help.
You could use the oil in micro dosing or during the day in other amounts up to 1ml per day but I love having a bit more sleep, so have experimented and still use it in the evening.
Hope this helps, I used to take opiates for my pain, I may as well not be here on that crap, can't advocate hard enough for the Adven oil etc to be prescribed for chronic pain in the UK.

 

[Seasider]

P.s a friend with arthritis swears by curcumin and black pepper in their coffee in the morning.

 

[Curious Gorilla]

I've been using medicinal cannabis for about a year, on prescription in UK. I've used it other than that for about 40 years. But now it really helps to get good quality, well cured and a variety that helps me.
I've severely arthritic knees and hands are v painful. Shoulder and back msk issues too.
I've found the best thing without a doubt, for me, has been cannabis oil. I take 0.7ml under my tongue in the evening. You titrate up v gradually to find the amount that works for you. I found 1ml was a little strong and left me a little sluggish.
Its a 20mg thc and 10mg cbd mix Adven by Rockshaw via curaleaf and sapphire clinics.
Really really helps with sleep and reduces inflammation generally.
I went to the US recently where I couldn't take my medication and really missed it, especially after about a week. Pain levels right up.
I also vape high thc flowers, during the day. I've gone through hundreds of pounds in mediocre various devices but have now bought a brand new volcano classic, with a reducer and capsules, it makes my med go much way further than anything I've found, no waste and works really well.
I find cbd increases my anxiety.
I prefer the 25% thc and under 1mg cbd ones, especially LA Kush Cake, a cross between girl scout cookies and something else.. and another one I find even better, its called T 16 with Curaleaf, can't remember the name, with a strawberry flavour, that's even better. I'll check and add it in here.
The oil is fast acting but lasts a long time, so do increase as per docs instructions. The flowers don't last too long but taste nice and do def. help.
You could use the oil in micro dosing or during the day in other amounts up to 1ml per day but I love having a bit more sleep, so have experimented and still use it in the evening.
Hope this helps, I used to take opiates for my pain, I may as well not be here on that crap, can't advocate hard enough for the Adven oil etc to be prescribed for chronic pain in the UK.

Have not really tried edibles much, had some bad experiences in the past, find working out the dosing hard.
Tried a little full spectrum oil i was given more recently, but considering how i vape dont think i noticed it.
Its hard to tell with a slower acting medication,pain and inflamation can be variable for a lot of reasons.
When you say 20mg THC and 10mg CBD is that per 10ml bottle, 30ml bottle, per 100ml or per litre of oil?

To be honest it is actualy impossible to get well cured Flower legaly due to the variety of quick curing processes the industry uses, No-One supplying the UK legaly is properly curing Medicinal Flowers. It is not financialy viable. Yet.
Some techniques are better than others. Irradiation actualy ruins it as a medication somewhat.Then there are the reasons they do it.
The legal flower and the system isnt always perfect, some brands are better than others, but nearly half the people who signed up dont use the legal prescription service regularly (figures from around last autum). Good to see other people sticking with it too. I think its partly luck finding the right one and waiting for there to be stock of it , something that works and is resonable quality.

I Had an arizer eq, similar to the volcano but capable of higher temperatures and no aluminium heater core, and although a good intro to desktop vapes, almost any baller head will beat it hands down. It is well worth looking into baller head injectors for Flower, they seem more efficient at extraction and hit harder than many other systems
Also look into how to clean inside the aluminium heater core, particularly with regards to cleaning out loose oxides that form over time on the surface of aluminuim. The particles are an abrasive. Storz and Bickel appear to have very limited cleaning instructions.

Sapphire were really bad ,for me. Misinformation, lies, hard selling devices and product placement. ON the desk . Of volcanoes funnily enough, during doctors appointments. Not legal I believe. At the very least unethical.
Sapphire and Curaleaf, their Owners, nearly drove me back to the illicit market with their behaviour and their Flower, it was so bad.
Sapphire Clinic seem able to break laws other clinics must abide by. Advertising for one.

Curaleaf are responsible for damaging the market in the US block buying licenses and stopping small producers from even getting licenses, one of their ceo's even admitted to dumping poor quality sub standard flower due to be incinerated, onto the wholesale market, I belive to also to drive the price down.
Curaleaf represents the macdonalds of WeedWorld.
To back up some of my allegations..... 04.17 timestamp. Listen for the phrase ---- '' now our inventory is much higher quality inventory than what we had and we got cash on it instead of writing it off.'' Its later on he mentions wanting to sack as many low paid people as possible and replace them with automation to further increase profit. Wholething is interesting. To me anyrate.

So he is admitting they were selling rubbish.
If Curaleaf Flower is good quality why do they HAVE to irradiate their cannabis flower to import it into the UK due to it not otherwise being up to standard. They do not remove the mould,bacteria and bugs killed by the irradiation process. And it shortens the shelf life of the Cannabis Flower too. If you dont believe me check batch harvest vs expiry dates.

I swapped clinics, and found some nice NON-Irradiated Medicinal Cannabis Flower. And a clinic that admits terpenes exist.
Curaleaf banned Sapphire Clinic from discussing terpenes with patients. I left them last year in June.
The only thing that Curaleaf seems to have is fast delivery and plenty of stock in hand. Thats because it must be ordered in 3 month blocks for each patient, hence the 3 month doctors appointment, alot of Sapphire clinic patients leave, and Curaleaf/Sapphire have lots of stock.
I've been with Cantourage for a year. The staff are good, any issues have been because of the Wholesale Supplier.
It is easy to change clinic if you want. Have a look around, phone different clinics and chat to them.
It is not perfect, but If no one uses the legal system and people dont ask for better quality, nothing will change.

 

[Pantherburn]

Hello and welcome.
I have arthritis in my feet, ankles, hips rib cage, elbows, had adhesive capsulitis so my shoulders never realy unseized and worst now my hands. Playing guitar is agony sometimes, and working with my hands is getting harder. Cannabis really does help me. Its 4.am and im up again, need coffee. And Cannabis.
I find citrus type smells,lemonene and pinene, help with inflamation,and if it tastes sweet it seems to help more with mood too.
My personal favourite is sweet grapefruit/pinapple smelling/tasting stuff, would be using C-99 , or Cinderella-99 f i could get it anymore, not had any for a long while.
Not fond of diesel smell, but diesel varieties are good for antiimflamatory stuff too, and i find help with nausea(from meds?)
Reasearching terpenes can help give you an idea of where to start, maybe try some older style simpler genetics.
I would stay away from very high THC strains, as i have found that the more THC the less other compounds, to the point where most high THC flower i have tried tastes a little off. CBD is also needed for best annti-imflamatory effects, THC opertates on the CB1 receptor, CBD operates on the CB2 receptors, allowing the terpenes to have greater effect. (to my understanding).
Vapourising will give the most active compounds vs any other method, (upto 40% more i read somewhere) but if she is new to Cannabis she may prefer other methods.
Another difference between vaping vs edibles is that once edibles are in your system they are active for longer, the effects of vaping wear off slightly quicker but can feel more controllable for higher doses. Edibles can be harder to dose initialy.(I found)
As Cheebsy said, its a personal thing, so if you can smell the bud first, that can help decide. Also try go for something with a little higher CBD/THC ratio first, the CBD can help balance the phycoactive effects of THC. Good for morning and daytime use.
THCV can also do this, and has its own benefits. I believe THCV helps regulate my blood sugars(type 1 diabetic) but selecting for THCV takes some knowledge and trial and error. unless theres lab results on it.
When i wake up, several times a night, and can barley move because ny joints are siezed up, vapourising a big bowl through a water pipe and a fresh black coffee gets them mobile and in less pain. Means my rib cage can move enough for me to breath without too much pain.
Cannabis really does work, take time, start on low doses, try different types.
If she goes the route of vaporising, do not be afraid of higher temperatures. Combustion does not really happen till way past 220c, and there are alot of useful compounds released at higher temps. Sometimes increasing temperatures can reduce harshness from terpenes.
varieties i have found particularly good for arthitis, and would have again in a minute if i could get them--
C-99
Stardawg.
Candy Cream/Cream caramel
Mexican Airliner
White Rusian/Siberian
Jack Herer(or related strains)
Cookies strains.(currently French Cookies)
Blueberry strains are tasty too.
Enjoying it is an important part of the medicine too.
Also, she could try Tumeric capsules, i take them most days. seem to help me as an anti-imflamatory. And a kg + of magnesium sulphate (epsom salts) in a hot bath. I have at least a 5 kg a week magnesium habit.

Thank you Curious Gorilla!

This is very valuable information. I really appreciate your taking the time to post this - very kind of you! I am cutting and pasting your post to a folder I am starting for reference.

I am sorry to hear of your condition and suffering. I pray that you continue to find relief and healing.

Regards,

 

[Seasider]

Have not really tried edibles much, had some bad experiences in the past, find working out the dosing hard.
Tried a little full spectrum oil i was given more recently, but considering how i vape dont think i noticed it.
Its hard to tell with a slower acting medication,pain and inflamation can be variable for a lot of reasons.
When you say 20mg THC and 10mg CBD is that per 10ml bottle, 30ml bottle, per 100ml or per litre of oil?

To be honest it is actualy impossible to get well cured Flower legaly due to the variety of quick curing processes the industry uses, No-One supplying the UK legaly is properly curing Medicinal Flowers. It is not financialy viable. Yet.
Some techniques are better than others. Irradiation actualy ruins it as a medication somewhat.Then there are the reasons they do it.
The legal flower and the system isnt always perfect, some brands are better than others, but nearly half the people who signed up dont use the legal prescription service regularly (figures from around last autum). Good to see other people sticking with it too. I think its partly luck finding the right one and waiting for there to be stock of it , something that works and is resonable quality.

I Had an arizer eq, similar to the volcano but capable of higher temperatures and no aluminium heater core, and although a good intro to desktop vapes, almost any baller head will beat it hands down. It is well worth looking into baller head injectors for Flower, they seem more efficient at extraction and hit harder than many other systems
Also look into how to clean inside the aluminium heater core, particularly with regards to cleaning out loose oxides that form over time on the surface of aluminuim. The particles are an abrasive. Storz and Bickel appear to have very limited cleaning instructions.

Sapphire were really bad ,for me. Misinformation, lies, hard selling devices and product placement. ON the desk . Of volcanoes funnily enough, during doctors appointments. Not legal I believe. At the very least unethical.
Sapphire and Curaleaf, their Owners, nearly drove me back to the illicit market with their behaviour and their Flower, it was so bad.
Sapphire Clinic seem able to break laws other clinics must abide by. Advertising for one.

Curaleaf are responsible for damaging the market in the US block buying licenses and stopping small producers from even getting licenses, one of their ceo's even admitted to dumping poor quality sub standard flower due to be incinerated, onto the wholesale market, I belive to also to drive the price down.
Curaleaf represents the macdonalds of WeedWorld.
To back up some of my allegations..... 04.17 timestamp. Listen for the phrase ---- '' now our inventory is much higher quality inventory than what we had and we got cash on it instead of writing it off.'' Its later on he mentions wanting to sack as many low paid people as possible and replace them with automation to further increase profit. Wholething is interesting. To me anyrate.

So he is admitting they were selling rubbish.
If Curaleaf Flower is good quality why do they HAVE to irradiate their cannabis flower to import it into the UK due to it not otherwise being up to standard. They do not remove the mould,bacteria and bugs killed by the irradiation process. And it shortens the shelf life of the Cannabis Flower too. If you dont believe me check batch harvest vs expiry dates.

I swapped clinics, and found some nice NON-Irradiated Medicinal Cannabis Flower. And a clinic that admits terpenes exist.
Curaleaf banned Sapphire Clinic from discussing terpenes with patients. I left them last year in June.
The only thing that Curaleaf seems to have is fast delivery and plenty of stock in hand. Thats because it must be ordered in 3 month blocks for each patient, hence the 3 month doctors appointment, alot of Sapphire clinic patients leave, and Curaleaf/Sapphire have lots of stock.
I've been with Cantourage for a year. The staff are good, any issues have been because of the Wholesale Supplier.
It is easy to change clinic if you want. Have a look around, phone different clinics and chat to them.
It is not perfect, but If no one uses the legal system and people dont ask for better quality, nothing will change.

Wow, thank you for all that, I do like to be well informed. I must say the main reason I went with them was that they seem to the cheapest, with no repeat prescription charges.
For me, just getting it legally and the oil being so helpful...30ml bottle BTW, 100quid... was exciting enough.
However, I mainly came on here to get a wider view and more info.
I see what you're saying and sorry you've had such a trial on finding the right place.
How much do Cantourage charge, please? The cost is pivotal for me.
Some of the street weed round here was so poor, everything I've had from Sapphire is better than that. But of course it would be wonderful to get something better.
Thanks for your time in sharing.

 

[Seasider]

Have not really tried edibles much, had some bad experiences in the past, find working out the dosing hard.
Tried a little full spectrum oil i was given more recently, but considering how i vape dont think i noticed it.
Its hard to tell with a slower acting medication,pain and inflamation can be variable for a lot of reasons.
When you say 20mg THC and 10mg CBD is that per 10ml bottle, 30ml bottle, per 100ml or per litre of oil?

To be honest it is actualy impossible to get well cured Flower legaly due to the variety of quick curing processes the industry uses, No-One supplying the UK legaly is properly curing Medicinal Flowers. It is not financialy viable. Yet.
Some techniques are better than others. Irradiation actualy ruins it as a medication somewhat.Then there are the reasons they do it.
The legal flower and the system isnt always perfect, some brands are better than others, but nearly half the people who signed up dont use the legal prescription service regularly (figures from around last autum). Good to see other people sticking with it too. I think its partly luck finding the right one and waiting for there to be stock of it , something that works and is resonable quality.

I Had an arizer eq, similar to the volcano but capable of higher temperatures and no aluminium heater core, and although a good intro to desktop vapes, almost any baller head will beat it hands down. It is well worth looking into baller head injectors for Flower, they seem more efficient at extraction and hit harder than many other systems
Also look into how to clean inside the aluminium heater core, particularly with regards to cleaning out loose oxides that form over time on the surface of aluminuim. The particles are an abrasive. Storz and Bickel appear to have very limited cleaning instructions.

Sapphire were really bad ,for me. Misinformation, lies, hard selling devices and product placement. ON the desk . Of volcanoes funnily enough, during doctors appointments. Not legal I believe. At the very least unethical.
Sapphire and Curaleaf, their Owners, nearly drove me back to the illicit market with their behaviour and their Flower, it was so bad.
Sapphire Clinic seem able to break laws other clinics must abide by. Advertising for one.

Curaleaf are responsible for damaging the market in the US block buying licenses and stopping small producers from even getting licenses, one of their ceo's even admitted to dumping poor quality sub standard flower due to be incinerated, onto the wholesale market, I belive to also to drive the price down.
Curaleaf represents the macdonalds of WeedWorld.
To back up some of my allegations..... 04.17 timestamp. Listen for the phrase ---- '' now our inventory is much higher quality inventory than what we had and we got cash on it instead of writing it off.'' Its later on he mentions wanting to sack as many low paid people as possible and replace them with automation to further increase profit. Wholething is interesting. To me anyrate.

So he is admitting they were selling rubbish.
If Curaleaf Flower is good quality why do they HAVE to irradiate their cannabis flower to import it into the UK due to it not otherwise being up to standard. They do not remove the mould,bacteria and bugs killed by the irradiation process. And it shortens the shelf life of the Cannabis Flower too. If you dont believe me check batch harvest vs expiry dates.

I swapped clinics, and found some nice NON-Irradiated Medicinal Cannabis Flower. And a clinic that admits terpenes exist.
Curaleaf banned Sapphire Clinic from discussing terpenes with patients. I left them last year in June.
The only thing that Curaleaf seems to have is fast delivery and plenty of stock in hand. Thats because it must be ordered in 3 month blocks for each patient, hence the 3 month doctors appointment, alot of Sapphire clinic patients leave, and Curaleaf/Sapphire have lots of stock.
I've been with Cantourage for a year. The staff are good, any issues have been because of the Wholesale Supplier.
It is easy to change clinic if you want. Have a look around, phone different clinics and chat to them.
It is not perfect, but If no one uses the legal system and people dont ask for better quality, nothing will change.

I'm looking at the Cantourage website already... thank you so much for taking the time to do all this.
I have been lucky with sapphire in that there's been no hard sell but the flavours could be nicer.
Any other helpful tips before I contact them?
Don't think I've got the patience to ring around, I just went on a comparison site that detailed the costs of appointments, etc and went by that... blimey I'm lazy.
Any advice very much appreciated, you're a star.

 

[Seasider]

Have not really tried edibles much, had some bad experiences in the past, find working out the dosing hard.
Tried a little full spectrum oil i was given more recently, but considering how i vape dont think i noticed it.
Its hard to tell with a slower acting medication,pain and inflamation can be variable for a lot of reasons.
When you say 20mg THC and 10mg CBD is that per 10ml bottle, 30ml bottle, per 100ml or per litre of oil?

To be honest it is actualy impossible to get well cured Flower legaly due to the variety of quick curing processes the industry uses, No-One supplying the UK legaly is properly curing Medicinal Flowers. It is not financialy viable. Yet.
Some techniques are better than others. Irradiation actualy ruins it as a medication somewhat.Then there are the reasons they do it.
The legal flower and the system isnt always perfect, some brands are better than others, but nearly half the people who signed up dont use the legal prescription service regularly (figures from around last autum). Good to see other people sticking with it too. I think its partly luck finding the right one and waiting for there to be stock of it , something that works and is resonable quality.

I Had an arizer eq, similar to the volcano but capable of higher temperatures and no aluminium heater core, and although a good intro to desktop vapes, almost any baller head will beat it hands down. It is well worth looking into baller head injectors for Flower, they seem more efficient at extraction and hit harder than many other systems
Also look into how to clean inside the aluminium heater core, particularly with regards to cleaning out loose oxides that form over time on the surface of aluminuim. The particles are an abrasive. Storz and Bickel appear to have very limited cleaning instructions.

Sapphire were really bad ,for me. Misinformation, lies, hard selling devices and product placement. ON the desk . Of volcanoes funnily enough, during doctors appointments. Not legal I believe. At the very least unethical.
Sapphire and Curaleaf, their Owners, nearly drove me back to the illicit market with their behaviour and their Flower, it was so bad.
Sapphire Clinic seem able to break laws other clinics must abide by. Advertising for one.

Curaleaf are responsible for damaging the market in the US block buying licenses and stopping small producers from even getting licenses, one of their ceo's even admitted to dumping poor quality sub standard flower due to be incinerated, onto the wholesale market, I belive to also to drive the price down.
Curaleaf represents the macdonalds of WeedWorld.
To back up some of my allegations..... 04.17 timestamp. Listen for the phrase ---- '' now our inventory is much higher quality inventory than what we had and we got cash on it instead of writing it off.'' Its later on he mentions wanting to sack as many low paid people as possible and replace them with automation to further increase profit. Wholething is interesting. To me anyrate.

So he is admitting they were selling rubbish.
If Curaleaf Flower is good quality why do they HAVE to irradiate their cannabis flower to import it into the UK due to it not otherwise being up to standard. They do not remove the mould,bacteria and bugs killed by the irradiation process. And it shortens the shelf life of the Cannabis Flower too. If you dont believe me check batch harvest vs expiry dates.

I swapped clinics, and found some nice NON-Irradiated Medicinal Cannabis Flower. And a clinic that admits terpenes exist.
Curaleaf banned Sapphire Clinic from discussing terpenes with patients. I left them last year in June.
The only thing that Curaleaf seems to have is fast delivery and plenty of stock in hand. Thats because it must be ordered in 3 month blocks for each patient, hence the 3 month doctors appointment, alot of Sapphire clinic patients leave, and Curaleaf/Sapphire have lots of stock.
I've been with Cantourage for a year. The staff are good, any issues have been because of the Wholesale Supplier.
It is easy to change clinic if you want. Have a look around, phone different clinics and chat to them.
It is not perfect, but If no one uses the legal system and people dont ask for better quality, nothing will change.

Just wanted to add, that just a little bit of the full spectrum oil doesn't do much. And micro dosing does nothing for me, some people swear by it.
I was told by the consultant at Sapphire, to increase the dose very very slowly over a few weeks, to find your perfect point of effect.
I feel that the oil is really a very different medication and I use it in a very different way to the flowers.
It has, without question, kept my inflamation levels down, I have inflammatory osteoarthritis and the flowers help the smaller pains in my hands, calm my mood, energise me and give me something to do in those resting parts of the day, which are quite a few.
The oil calms all of my muscular skeletal issues and having had 3 weeks without my nightly 0.7ml I really felt the pain levels go back up to a place they haven't been since I started taking it a year ago.
I have no cartilage or of my knees so nothing will kill that pain but the oil keeps the knee less inflamed and sore.

 

[Pantherburn]

Good morning,

I am in the USA (Mississippi). Medical marijuana just became legal here within the last year. As it is in its infancy, there are probably less than 25 established dispensaries within the state at present. The selection is limited as well, but it appears to be ramping up. I see that there are more dispensaries scheduled to open, but as with anything under the purview of government oversight, inefficiency and red tape abound…

 

[Curious Gorilla]

My pleasure, Pantherburn and Seasider, glad its of help. Been using cannabis for pain for over 20 years, consider myself lucky. It is a fantastic medicine. Means i generaly dont need other pain killers, its the only safe one long term unless you want opiates.
Im delighted its now Legal in the UK (at least medicaly, it should be completely decriminilised for all)
Im upset it can be so bad that it pushes people back to the illicit market.
I also think the Illicit market needs to exist alongside the legal market.
Cantourage dont charge for repeats, following was cut/pasted from something else i wrote but the prices are still current.
Cost breakdown - prices all for flower.
initial consultancy - £99 . Follow up appointments every 3 months- £49 each.
Buying larger amounts is slightly less per gram due to the consultacy fees being more spead out.
10 g of lower priced non irradiated meds £65 for 10 g. £6.50 a g, £22.75 per eighth (3.5 g).
total minimum per week including initial consultation and all yearly appointments plus 10 g every 4 weeks works out at....
£20.99 for 2.5 g. per week all in, £8.39 per g , £27.49 per eighth per week all in.
£69.74 for 10 g per week all in, £6.98 per g , £24.43 per eight per week all in.
10 grams of mid priced non irradiated meds £80 for 10 g, £8.00 a g, £28.00 an eighth (3.5g).

Its worth phoning round, ask different clinics which brands they stock and prices, and which pharmacies they use, who they are tied to wholesaler/Importer wise.
Then research everything and make your mind up. The non-irradiated varieties tend to have better terpenes, but you get much less choice of different flowers. I like Grow pharma flowers, the Stratus Wappa is a little less cost , but very tasty. Orange Cake is very high THC, 28%, but not my cup of coffee, but its not far off what it claims. Overpriced for my pocket, too. £10 to £11 per gram.
Medbud is a good site for info on whats available med wise in the UK but its not always accurate.

Wherever you get it from, good Marijuana is good medicine.
While my fingers are up to it, this site has given me and many others good info, so its good to add to it.

 

[Curious Gorilla]

Dont know if its of relevance to anyone or anyone you know but Prasugrel, an anti platelet heart medication, and i believe Clopidogrel, and maybe other anti-platelet drugs,can and DO INCREASE Arthritic Pain and Cannabis use or maybe tolerance, at least in some patients.
Having increased them at the request of a Heart Specialist Doctor(I was taking half the recommended minimum amount) It became very clear how much worse it made things. They are usualy only given for 1 year, but i ,like some others, had reason to continue with anti-platelet medication. Reduced back down now.
It may not be relavant to all users of the drug ,but they have nasty hidden side effects , apart from increasing pain response to Arthritis , they haves a seriously detrimental effect on sleep and cause me sensationaly bad muscle spasms in my lower legs, and have given me perpetual pitting oedema in round my ankles for the past 8 years and some nerve damage and possibly possibly more.
Still have to take them tho...but looking at alternatives.
Still working out the mechanism,(will put info up on F.C. when/if i can figure anything out).
Funny but Cannabis affects some of the pathways that mediate blood clotting, in a beneficial fashion. I believe, but understanding stuff about protaglandins and cytokines makes my brain ache and i struggle to retain anything.Another side effect of heart Meds.
I think its all about Cox,Lox and Vaping barrels....

Fuck staying Medicated.
Stay High......!

I am not recommending Anyone stop their heart meds or any other medication, but be aware of side effects and also contra-indications , even with our favourite herb.
Medications can effect everyone a little differently, so what is the case for Me may not be for You.

 

[bhasma]

Dont know if its of relevance to anyone or anyone you know but Prasugrel, an anti platelet heart medication, and i believe Clopidogrel, and maybe other anti-platelet drugs,can and DO INCREASE Arthritic Pain and Cannabis use or maybe tolerance, at least in some patients.
Having increased them at the request of a Heart Specialist Doctor(I was taking half the recommended minimum amount) It became very clear how much worse it made things. They are usualy only given for 1 year, but i ,like some others, had reason to continue with anti-platelet medication. Reduced back down now.
It may not be relavant to all users of the drug ,but they have nasty hidden side effects , apart from increasing pain response to Arthritis , they haves a seriously detrimental effect on sleep and cause me sensationaly bad muscle spasms in my lower legs, and have given me perpetual pitting oedema in round my ankles for the past 8 years and some nerve damage and possibly possibly more.

Prasugrel is a thienopyridine, a platelet inhibitor and an irreversible antagonist of P2Y12 ADP receptors. Ticagrelor has similar indications for use but it differs from thienopyridines by reversibly (rather than irreversibly) inhibiting the P2Y12 receptor. Ticagrelor seems to have less side effects, so perhaps you could ask your doctor about its suitability as an alternative.

 

[Curious Gorilla]

Greeting Bhama !
I have looked into tricegralor ,and it looks like a viable alternative, but it seems patients in general prefer prasugrel citing less side effects. The heart meds i was on wrecked my life. Stopped 3 other concurrent medications I have been on as i realised each of their side effects.
Older people than I dismiss alot of the side effects as ....getting older(I was 40 the day after my first heart attack, living was ,i thought the best present ever, untill my children were born a while later.)
I am slowly trying to titrate down while looking to replace it with botanical alternatives. Till I find what works(still researching the most sensible safest options to start off with) i need to stick to the prasugrel as i recognise its... Feeling and Effects, So i would better recognise anyt effects from any herbal treatments I try.
Thats my theory at any rate, failing that then swap to tricegrelor and See if there is an improvement.
I am very wary of new drugs as the doctors and NHS have proved to me time and time agaian they largely dont know much about what they are prescribing. Beyond the Advertising they are given from Pharma and Co.
Conversations have been a pleasure with you by the way. Thankyou for your continued efforts, and evreywher you put good info!(CanYouSayCannaBreak)
I am quite serious about making an antiplatelet Rosin from botanicals if i can. Good for edible aplications and i feel the possibility of vapourising it(also botanicals as dry herbs) should be explored due to the increased concentration of active compounds in rosin and the increased efficacy of vapourisation over other methods of delivery?
The issue with it is (amongst others)that being unpatentable means things would realy have to change for it to be disseminated as a viable medicine if it worked. Reason I have been able to type such lengthy diatribes the last couple of weeks is that I have reduced the prasigrel so much that why arthriric fingers hurt less and work better, and i can walk without a stick. Still aches to tho...
And i have to use more Nitrous spray.

 

[bhasma]

There are herbal possiblities and I hope that a suitable remedy can be found, but antiplatelet drugs all have side effects (some potentially fatal). Changing prescriptions adds more complication, combining them can be dangerous, and not taking them when prescribed can also be fatal, so great care is required here.

 

[Curious Gorilla]

Hope this is useful to people, I am not suggesting people take My route. It has been necassary.

Changing prescriptions adds more complication, combining them can be dangerous, and not taking them when prescribed can also be fatal, so great care is required here.

No argument there. I couldnt Agree more.
Forgive the ridiculous length of the post.
Mods please forgive the double post, Its to help People Hate Me less for the LongArse read. Please merge them if you must.

To anyone Considering stopping Your Meds ....
Dont. Really.
You are literaly taking Your Own Life in Your Own Hands.
And out of the Doctors and Medical Profession.
It is complicated and somewhat terrifying.
Before looking into stopping My medications Against Doctors Advise.... I Considered the following
The side effects are so bad that it may be riskier to keep taking them.
I feel i Have done and am doing due dilligence on My medical situation, treatment and what to replacing it with.
The Doctors Have Repeatedly proved to Me they DO NOT know about the drugs they are prescribing, or the side effects.
The Doctors have repeatedly ignored My side effects and try to attribute them to something else because its easier. Ignoring medical papers and evidence presented to them, in favour of quoting highly flawed and proveably inaccurate studies.
And Once Again only just last Monday. Fucking Arseholes.
You Bhasma ,I suspect, have better medical knowledge through experience and learning than them, judging by your posts. And a mind without a huge steel door locking new thoughts and possibilities out.
I have lowered mY dose of the relavent medication and have seen an obvious improvement in the side effects, related to the dose, On Several different occasions, and seen the same result. I tried with multiple different Medications I am on ,to narrow down which was the cause.
Importantly, I only altered one thing at a time while doing this. Accept on the first occasion when I stopped all my heart meds for 3 days to study the effects of stopping, and to see if there was a reduction in side effects.
There was an incredible difference on many levels. Going back on them was harder than coming off Opiates for Me.

If You Dont know what You are doing it is Risky.
If You Do know what You are doing, it is Risky.
Yourself AND Your Loved ones take the risk.
You Must capable of understanding and assesing the Risk to Continuing Your medication vs Stopping any Medication.

I may be wrong. If i am I will have to pay the price.
I am already paying various Heavey prices because some Doctors have been so Inept in the past.
And most are incapable of listening to a patient properly.
After all, Doctors are the Best and The Brightest............ Occassionaly.

More to come.... I can hear the head slaps from the UK.............

 

[Curious Gorilla]

Part 2.........Clopidogrel has been proven to cause Polyarticular Arthritis over a short period of time.

NHS Doctors rely on N.I.C.E. Guidlines, and The N.I.C.E Organisation relies on the pharmacuitical Industry for the Information they base their discisions on.
For instance claiming a prophylactic Treatment is a Vaccine. Without doing safety studies but knowing the excipients have been added to prevent heart issues. I recognised this from the ingredients.
Why would You do that if it did'nt cause heart issues? Thankyou AstraZenica. and all the others.
Luckily, I am selective about the adjuvants i will accept in vaccines, and know what an actual vaccine is.
Always check the active ingredients and excipients of any medicine.

Unless You trust the pharmacuitical industry.
Another instance is asking the company that makes a medicine to do the report for the NHS funding body on how financialy viable a drug is.......
For example---Here! Use this One iTS EXPENSIVE ,INEFFECTIVE BUT WE MAKE LOTS OF CASH! tHATS THE RIGHT ONE FOR yOU.
This was done with Statins. Which in MANY cases could Largly be replaced with Evening Primrose oil for many people, but this has been ignored for the last 10 years.
I can increase my HDL levels ABOVE my LDL levels using Evening Primrose Oil. At will.
I have repeatedly PROVED this is possible to Dotors with blood tests.
HDL and LDL are NOT cholesterols, which is the non-sense we are all fed, but lipo-protiens that transport cholesterol to and from the site of damage in our blood vessels. Cholesterol is laid down by LDL, and scavenged back to the liver by HDL. They are neither good or bad but do a specific job.
There is no safe lowest level of cholesterol, but a japenese study showed that All Cause Mortality Rates were higher with Low cholesterol levels than High cholesterol levels.
Low cholesterol is dangerous, and ignored.
Problem I have with evening primrose oil is if I take too much, it increases my HDL too much and NO doctor has been able to tell me if that is Good or Bad.
Evening primrose oil also has cardioprotective properties, it could be an alternative anti-coagulant.
Clopidogrel has been proven to cause Polyarticular Arthritis over a short period of time.
I have been on a very similar drug for over 10 years, and have developed worsening Arthritis in many of my joints. That drasticly reduces in pain when i stop Prasugrel for over a few days ,but after 10 days there is a significant increase in unstable angina that worsens over time. But is possibly managable with GTN spray IF my blood pressure stabilises soon enough after stoppin.
Anti-platelet meds destabilise blood sugar and blood pressur for Me , personaly. I also take Blood pressure meds that interfere with the parasympathetic nervous system and cause Loew blood sugar episodes in specific circumstances.
I have had severe pitting eodems in my lower limbs almost perpetualy for 7 years, and chronic muscle spasms almost every night that wake me every couple of hours.Sometimes so bad both sides I cant get to the kettle to make a hot water bottle. Get stuck half way, Screaming gently in agony to not wake anyone.
It has been blamed on bad blood sugar control.
but yet it is well known most of the heart meds interfere with blood sugar control, and sleep which effects Blood sugar control more than almost anything else i have mapped.
It is , even for Doctors , a collection of Highly Complex Interactions.
I also have other possibly related health issues too.

I am not putting this up for sympathy.This , and any personal Info I have put up anywhere, is to share the information---
All medical Data comes from Patients, yet is dismissed by Doctors individualy as 'Anecdotal Evidence' They tend to ignore the Evidence part.
I invite anyone else with similar OR opposite experience to add to this body of Anecdotal Evidence to increase the available Data to us all..
If permtted by the MODS, I will start a post on it Soon, im still doing re-search.
And with my greatest of thanks to You, Bhasma. You have increased my reading list beyond my current understanding, it will take time to reverse that. And lots of reading.
I hope You will continue pull me up on anything I say or suggest that is dangerous, when you see it.
And appreciate the opportunity it gives to explain my thinking and actions.
If this is ,in yours, or any other sensible persons opinion not wise to put this up publicly (it will be a bad suggestion for many), I will request the MODS remove it ....!

List of Heart Meds i have already stopped, mostly using the above process.-
Proton Pump Inhibitors----(stopped within 3 weeks)
Statins---(Reduced by half within 2 weeks, stopped in 6 months after reducing in steps from 80mg initialy prescribed(the maximum dose for someone twice my weight.) down to 10mg per day within 2 months. The day after my heart attack my Split Cholesterol Levels were 3.4. The ldl and hdl were balanced.
That is lower than a chimpanzee. Uk average for males is /was around 5, with higher LDL vs HDL.
Beta Blockers. ---(Reduced over several years to minute amounts and finaly completely stopped 3 years ago.)
10 years after My first and major heart attack, My latest MRI Scan shows improvement. Both times the Doctors took me off anti-platelets, without letting me titrate down as i requested, I had a heart attack( minor ones) within a month. 1 year after the first, then another year after that.
No more since then, Despite reducing prasugrel to less than half the minimum daily dose for the most part of the last 5 years,
I have used Cannabis the entire time bar the first 3 months. and occasional brief breaks.

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