Are some vaporizers more efficient than others...
- Thread starter MoeOnTheMoon
- Start date
Well, gawsshhh!!! You act like the analysis or response from someone with neither knowledge nor experience will be helpful or desired. It will be utterly worthless, I assure you.pollykok said:
Here's how I define knowledge:
acquaintance or familiarity gained by sight, experience, or report.
from dictionary.com.
You act like you're an expert on efficiency in vaporizers, yet you know only information, nothing more.
Why not try a vaporizer before making blanket statements about them? To do otherwise only states supreme ignorance.
My first post in this thread wasn't fully sarcasm, or even mostly sarcasm. You can get equal efficiency with that soldering iron as defined as: most psychoactive compounds vaporized per square inch, which is just a smarter way of putting your definition of efficiency.
I define efficiency as: most psychoactive compounds vaporized per square inch, and absorbed by the lungs, in the least amount of time possible. That is much harder to achieve.
I don't need to feel better about my PD purchase. The key feature is its safety. I don't want my mind to melt down to the level of yours, whether from perceived dangers or real toxins.
Bluntfaced, this is my last response to you. I don't want to get banned and I feel you are egging me on towards a personal argument which is not why I came here and I do not want to argue with you or defend my posts to you. In the future I will ignore you, but the least you can do is not come to MY thread and bad-mouth me from your very first post. Seems you could have just ignored my thread if you feel so strongly towards me.
The truth hurts? Maybe if I heard some I could find out.
Here's some truth for you:
*In your very first post in this thread you said the thread I started was ridiculous. Then proceeded to post 7 more times in it.
*In 3 of those posts you said variations of " You really just have to use some of these vapes though." Deep. That really carries the conversation forward.
*In another of your posts you attacked the moderators and wondered why you were banned before. (I could have guessed but the mods reminded us.) That added to the thread quite a bit, don't you think?
*Then you posted this which really added to the discussion:
I think kayaks are the most efficient we all better just use those."
*Then you attacked me again, saying my posts don't add to the discussion. Huh??? Look in the mirror.
Mods, please forgive me for engaging in this pettiness. I have felt I had to defend myself from bluntfaced ever since he came into this thread, so I've gotten a little bent out of shape. But I will just do my best to ignore him in the future, and that will be easy if he will stop complaining about me.
Even though I started this thread with the best of intentions I will unsubscribe to it and try to stop posting here. I don't want to get into it with anyone. I came here for knowledge and friendship.
And yeah, bluntfaced, you are right about one thing. I am long-winded and my posts are sometimes too long. So sue me.
The truth hurts? Maybe if I heard some I could find out.
Here's some truth for you:
*In your very first post in this thread you said the thread I started was ridiculous. Then proceeded to post 7 more times in it.
*In 3 of those posts you said variations of " You really just have to use some of these vapes though." Deep. That really carries the conversation forward.
*In another of your posts you attacked the moderators and wondered why you were banned before. (I could have guessed but the mods reminded us.) That added to the thread quite a bit, don't you think?
*Then you posted this which really added to the discussion:
I think kayaks are the most efficient we all better just use those."
*Then you attacked me again, saying my posts don't add to the discussion. Huh??? Look in the mirror.
Mods, please forgive me for engaging in this pettiness. I have felt I had to defend myself from bluntfaced ever since he came into this thread, so I've gotten a little bent out of shape. But I will just do my best to ignore him in the future, and that will be easy if he will stop complaining about me.
Even though I started this thread with the best of intentions I will unsubscribe to it and try to stop posting here. I don't want to get into it with anyone. I came here for knowledge and friendship.
And yeah, bluntfaced, you are right about one thing. I am long-winded and my posts are sometimes too long. So sue me.
Happycamper
Sweet Dreams Babycakes
Guys, Guys please don't get argue. Poly is around to cause friction imo. Thats what this is all about. Sad but that's what some people get off on. If you all fall out because of this thread they will get the greatest satisfaction.
She is still quoting everthing that everyone has ever said just to fuck me off. However i am empowered by seeing it for what it is. (and that is nothing other than shit)
She is still quoting everthing that everyone has ever said just to fuck me off. However i am empowered by seeing it for what it is. (and that is nothing other than shit)
stickstones
Vapor concierge
This is wierd and makes no sense to me, but it happens.
Some strains work better in my PD than my E as far as effect. One strain in particular will not get me going with a half packed E bowl, but do great with just one PD stem. Go figure.
Some strains work better in my PD than my E as far as effect. One strain in particular will not get me going with a half packed E bowl, but do great with just one PD stem. Go figure.
Lo
Combustion free since '09
Well I don't have an E but I have found that the PD can really pack a punch sometimes even making me cough a little 
Same herb in the IO or LB and not even close to the punch...and I use more in both of them than a PD stem. I have tried same thing with several kinds and it always kicks harder in the PD for me but I don't have any of the big boys to compare to... yet
Same herb in the IO or LB and not even close to the punch...and I use more in both of them than a PD stem. I have tried same thing with several kinds and it always kicks harder in the PD for me but I don't have any of the big boys to compare to... yet 
DevoTheStrange
Ia! Ia! Vapor Fthagn!
ive actually just ran across a strain that does not like too vape in my PD. Everything else will normally knock me on my ass. This stuff gets maybe one or two, but predominantly one, hits of vape. then nothing more than that. But in the Extreme this strain is a monster. You can get all right hits off the strain with a Vapor Cannon. odd mutant strain.
even went so far as too combust it too see if it was just the strain (put me out doing this, wicked stoned).
can't figure out for the life of me why it doesn't want too vape in the PD.
another thing I noticed, it will vape in my vaporstar with ease, but you gotta really work too get it too vape in the vaporgenie.
Now I went and tried other strains in my PD... works just fine, just not with this strain.
even went so far as too combust it too see if it was just the strain (put me out doing this, wicked stoned).
can't figure out for the life of me why it doesn't want too vape in the PD.
another thing I noticed, it will vape in my vaporstar with ease, but you gotta really work too get it too vape in the vaporgenie.
Now I went and tried other strains in my PD... works just fine, just not with this strain.
DevoTheStrange
Ia! Ia! Vapor Fthagn!
first few bowls of this strain and I was all "Oh Crap I broke my PD"Beezleb said:
sneezyjesus
Lightly Toasted
This thread has been seriously interesting to me.
Really though, reading this thread from the start has taught me quite a few things about what to consider when looking at vaporizer efficiency. Sadly it's also taught me a bit about how the snowball affect works.
It seems to me that Pk was just a little resentful that the PD was being treated in the way it was. That mixed with some VERY sound arguments came across in just the exact combination to appear as something more negative than I would imagine it was intended to be. Though he committed the cardinal sin of stating things that are not broken down into pure facts AS fact, I think he really did put a great deal of effort into his statements. I would agree with a large portion of what he posted, minus the points he made when the whole defending the argument-thing and about to be trolling on both "sides" started. It comes down to people posting statements that have some fact and some observation: when the observation is challenged the fact is often used in defense of the observation, and what is actually being argued for gets muddled.
Technically efficiency of what can be extracted from plant material is universal with any vape with an adjustable temperature, (REVISION, not sure if this is actually 100% true, as higher temps might destroy some thc.). An example of this is my VG and VS: i usually just burn the last bit of duff a LITTLE bit. I don't mind it, and still see it as healthier than smoking, (To a degree). I vape till I'm pretty confident I've gotten everything the vape can offer out of it, then slightly scorch it to make sure. If I put a PD bowl in the VG, could I get as much out of it, PHYSICALLY? Yes. But it would take longer, and I would lose the high during that time.
This is what vape efficiency really comes down to. How much can be extracted physically, which is technically all with any adjustable temp vape, and how quickly it does this. The first determines the amount, (Think of the analogy of a=x*v, acceleration equals distance times velocity.) The more taken out in a quicker manner results in a faster onset and intensity of the herb.
The issue of large hits vs small ones definitely comes into play though, but as a secondary thing: efficiency is efficiency, with how it affects humans coming into play as the second part of what to consider with a vape. Obviously smaller, purer hits get more absorbed at the end of the day, but the time it takes and how much the high will wear off should be taken into account as well.
Too Long didn't read:
"The perfectly efficient vape", of which there is none see the FC logo, would instantly vape exactly the amount a persons lungs could absorb, and nothing else. Calculating how much air needs to be moved to do this, how much a hit in a bowl will use, and how much the actual lungs could absorb though is virtually impossible though. The factors of even heating, speed of heating, airflow and subsequently lung absorption creates an exponential level of room for error in calculation a good vape style. One factors tweak could fuck the hell out of another's "efficiency". And guess what, this is where the buzzword comes into play: experience. Statements about facts are great, but unless you can break down, to almost a mathematical level, what each fact contributes to the whole picture, experience is the only way to boost such knowledge of facts into an accurate observation.
Oh jesus that turned into a much longer post than intended.......but hey, when in Rome...
And since I've already beaten the dead horse into a pulpy mess;
Devo, that has to be the coolest thing I've heard today on this forum. Imagine that, that a strain could have that much affect on vaping
Really though, reading this thread from the start has taught me quite a few things about what to consider when looking at vaporizer efficiency. Sadly it's also taught me a bit about how the snowball affect works.
It seems to me that Pk was just a little resentful that the PD was being treated in the way it was. That mixed with some VERY sound arguments came across in just the exact combination to appear as something more negative than I would imagine it was intended to be. Though he committed the cardinal sin of stating things that are not broken down into pure facts AS fact, I think he really did put a great deal of effort into his statements. I would agree with a large portion of what he posted, minus the points he made when the whole defending the argument-thing and about to be trolling on both "sides" started. It comes down to people posting statements that have some fact and some observation: when the observation is challenged the fact is often used in defense of the observation, and what is actually being argued for gets muddled.
Technically efficiency of what can be extracted from plant material is universal with any vape with an adjustable temperature, (REVISION, not sure if this is actually 100% true, as higher temps might destroy some thc.). An example of this is my VG and VS: i usually just burn the last bit of duff a LITTLE bit. I don't mind it, and still see it as healthier than smoking, (To a degree). I vape till I'm pretty confident I've gotten everything the vape can offer out of it, then slightly scorch it to make sure. If I put a PD bowl in the VG, could I get as much out of it, PHYSICALLY? Yes. But it would take longer, and I would lose the high during that time.
This is what vape efficiency really comes down to. How much can be extracted physically, which is technically all with any adjustable temp vape, and how quickly it does this. The first determines the amount, (Think of the analogy of a=x*v, acceleration equals distance times velocity.) The more taken out in a quicker manner results in a faster onset and intensity of the herb.
The issue of large hits vs small ones definitely comes into play though, but as a secondary thing: efficiency is efficiency, with how it affects humans coming into play as the second part of what to consider with a vape. Obviously smaller, purer hits get more absorbed at the end of the day, but the time it takes and how much the high will wear off should be taken into account as well.
Too Long didn't read:
"The perfectly efficient vape", of which there is none see the FC logo, would instantly vape exactly the amount a persons lungs could absorb, and nothing else. Calculating how much air needs to be moved to do this, how much a hit in a bowl will use, and how much the actual lungs could absorb though is virtually impossible though. The factors of even heating, speed of heating, airflow and subsequently lung absorption creates an exponential level of room for error in calculation a good vape style. One factors tweak could fuck the hell out of another's "efficiency". And guess what, this is where the buzzword comes into play: experience. Statements about facts are great, but unless you can break down, to almost a mathematical level, what each fact contributes to the whole picture, experience is the only way to boost such knowledge of facts into an accurate observation.
Oh jesus that turned into a much longer post than intended.......but hey, when in Rome...
And since I've already beaten the dead horse into a pulpy mess;
Devo, that has to be the coolest thing I've heard today on this forum. Imagine that, that a strain could have that much affect on vaping
niall
Well-Known Member
Depends on your definition of efficiency, and to be honest I've skimmed the rest of the thread to catch up - not interested in all the bickering so just wanted to add my 2c on this.pollykok said:
Vaporizers don't have a special heat source, agreed, but you can definitly extract mostly flavinoids and terpenoids, and then mostly THC, and then mostly CBD/CBN (or whatever gives me a heavy stone vs. a cerebral high). You do this by choosing your temperature and the rate that you change it:
Exactly - heat as a function of time. For some efficiency seems to be getting all of the actives, for others it's getting them all at once, for others it's the ability to get some of them now and others later.Hippie Dickie said:
If you start at low temps you can get the lower boiling point volatiles, if that's your thing. A bit higher and you're getting those volatiles and (imo - we need testing to prove this but Dr Hornby seems to be coming to the same conclusion) mostly THC. A bit higher still and you'll get those plus other cannabinoids.
I guess high efficiency could be summarised as the ability to get what you want, when you want it. If we assume your vape can get everything in the one hit i.e. an accurate representation of your herb's actives, a full spectrum hit - then it's just a question of dosage and bowl size as to how many hits it takes to exhaust the herb. A vape that satisfies Hippy Dickie's criteria for efficiency should also be capable of extracting atypical hits - not all actives at once, depending on the temperature that you're using.
Totally agree, it's all about accuracy and being able to control the variables (or influence them e.g. by controlling airflow rate you're playing with the element and/or electronics ability to maintain steady temps; length of whip hoses, water, ice etc. will be influencing condensation of actives in a minor way; the rate of change of temps will be affecting decarboxylation in terms of mis-representing the full spectrum of actives according to what you are looking for.Hippie Dickie said:
All vapes should approach a similar level of efficiency eventually, the real differences between these products is the ability to influence the many variables involved. If you're looking for a particular high: extracting all of the actives at once; an accurate representation of the actives but in smaller hits; or an inaccurate representation of the actives to take advantage of their synergistic qualities - then different models may be better suited for you than others.
Use what works for you. Just my thoughts, hope I've clarified my earlier comment a bit pollykok.
sneezyjesus
Lightly Toasted
I like what you said there niall, and how you rambled a lot less than me 
As soon as I get back from some lunch I'm going to write up some other ramblings. I really like this particular topic; it gives you so much of a more personal view on what vaporization actually is. Minus the bickering, this is probably my favorite non-vape-specific topic on FC
As soon as I get back from some lunch I'm going to write up some other ramblings. I really like this particular topic; it gives you so much of a more personal view on what vaporization actually is. Minus the bickering, this is probably my favorite non-vape-specific topic on FC
niall
Well-Known Member
Hehe reading my post again I am rambling a bit, but I do that
Yeah it's an interesting topic, I've done far too much thinking and experimenting on this. I guess with all of the different models we use we're all glimpsing a bit of the chemistry behind these volatiles from a slightly different perspective - each tool having its own characteristics or allowing you to play with some of the variables.
I think we should all go do a bit of personal study now
Yeah it's an interesting topic, I've done far too much thinking and experimenting on this. I guess with all of the different models we use we're all glimpsing a bit of the chemistry behind these volatiles from a slightly different perspective - each tool having its own characteristics or allowing you to play with some of the variables.
I think we should all go do a bit of personal study now
DevoTheStrange
Ia! Ia! Vapor Fthagn!
The more I think about it, the more I think Efficiency and Satisfying Experience must go hand in hand.
Over the past few months I have tried, and vaped, PD sized bowls in all the vapes I own. I have also tried my friends vapes using the same size. My conclusion... All will vape the desired amount. However the experience seems too get less and less satisfying the bigger the bowl gets.
Each vape has an optimal bowl size for which it will give its own Utmost Satisfying effect. Which normally means more herb.
Now, by saying Satisfying esperience, I mean taste, size of hits, effects on the body. The bigger ones just don't give you that effect with tiny amounts. IME to get the full effect you need a full bowl. But after you achieve the level of satisfying vaping, you could potentially have unvaped herb left in the bowl. Which is a hard temptation not too finish for me.
For me it is for most satisfying effect using the smallest amount of product I can. The PD does this for me. Anything beyond this is a waste in my eyes, herb that could be used later.. I am using the small size of the bowl too dial in desired effects I want.
So I wonder, are people going for efficiency in using the least amount of herb? or going after the most satisfying effect using the tiniest amount of herb?
which sound the same... but are two slightly different things too me. One just happens too be a side effect of the other. Bowl size too me isn't important in that it saves weed too me. It is important too me because I can dial in the exact experience I wish too have. the added benefit too me in this case would be that I save weed.
Over the past few months I have tried, and vaped, PD sized bowls in all the vapes I own. I have also tried my friends vapes using the same size. My conclusion... All will vape the desired amount. However the experience seems too get less and less satisfying the bigger the bowl gets.
Each vape has an optimal bowl size for which it will give its own Utmost Satisfying effect. Which normally means more herb.
Now, by saying Satisfying esperience, I mean taste, size of hits, effects on the body. The bigger ones just don't give you that effect with tiny amounts. IME to get the full effect you need a full bowl. But after you achieve the level of satisfying vaping, you could potentially have unvaped herb left in the bowl. Which is a hard temptation not too finish for me.
For me it is for most satisfying effect using the smallest amount of product I can. The PD does this for me. Anything beyond this is a waste in my eyes, herb that could be used later.. I am using the small size of the bowl too dial in desired effects I want.
So I wonder, are people going for efficiency in using the least amount of herb? or going after the most satisfying effect using the tiniest amount of herb?
which sound the same... but are two slightly different things too me. One just happens too be a side effect of the other. Bowl size too me isn't important in that it saves weed too me. It is important too me because I can dial in the exact experience I wish too have. the added benefit too me in this case would be that I save weed.
Burger Boss
Well-Known Member
Hello all, this will be my first FC.C post. I expect my 1st vaporizor by UPS probably tomorrow. It's one the the "cheap chinese" jobs, 6th Element. I've read a lot of pro & con, (mostly con, lol) regarding this unit. However, i'm hopeful that it will allow me to decide if vaping is for me. What drew me to this thread was all the concern over "efficiency". I have a nice little patio grow every summer and this supplies me with as much bowl material as I could possibly use. For me, getting every last trichrome "boiled off" is pretty low priority. So I guess my parameters for efficiency would be how well it handles max loads while maintaining constant vape temp. I wish all Good luck & happy vaping.......BB
Beezleb
Well-Known Member
Heres a thread that is dedicated to efficiency in vaporizing rather than just focusing on the vaporizer itself.
http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?id=1577
As pointed out by others in essence personal vaporizing efficiency is typically subjective to the user and their style. There is some discussion on ways to maximize overall efficiency in vaporizing and would be good too see more people take an active role in the discussion rather than just focusing one aspect.
http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?id=1577
As pointed out by others in essence personal vaporizing efficiency is typically subjective to the user and their style. There is some discussion on ways to maximize overall efficiency in vaporizing and would be good too see more people take an active role in the discussion rather than just focusing one aspect.