Are some vaporizers more efficient than others...

[nicelytoasted]

so for me at least, both the PD and the MZ are one of the few vapes I have run across that pulls the majority of active THC out of the product when compared too other vapes.

Fair enough Devo, but if you are talking extraction efficiency, the herbalaire may be the best due to its unique flow design and temperature compensation, imo.

 

[max]

Banning people for actively participating in a discussion that does not side with the PD is pretty BAN HAPPY if you ask me.

And that has not happened. If we were "ban happy" we would have pulled the trigger on your account by now.

the herbalaire may be the best due to its unique flow design and temperature compensation, imo.

I'm a long time herbalAire owner, and it is indeed efficient, especially considering you're supposed to load pieces/chunks, instead of ground. It penetrates even compressed herb. BUT, just as with other vapes that'll hold a lot of herb, you tend to load a good amount. I found myself using quite a bit more herb with the herbalAire than I do with the PD. Same with my SSV, and even the iolite. Aside from condensation loss, I think my SSV is very efficient, using the proper temp. But like I do with the herbalAire, I tend to load more and use more. That's fine when I want to get wrecked in a hurry, but most of the time I'm perfectly OK with using quite a bit less in the PD. With the PD's small bowl, I have time to 'wait for it', and instead of loading another bowl right away, I often decide I'm good for a while. To me that's the efficiency edge for this type of vape. It encourages efficient use of your herb, while vapes with larger bowls encourage you to load big and therefore go through more herb quicker.

If you wanted to look at efficiency a different way, a vape with a temp control is more efficient at extracting all the cannabinoids than a fixed temp vape like a PD or iolite, since it'll go higher and get those last few high temp compounds that need a higher temp.

 

[Happycamper]

Look Polly, see what Max did. He managed to cut down the quoted posts to the relevent bits. It's a lot easier on the eyes.

 

[DevoTheStrange]

so for me at least, both the PD and the MZ are one of the few vapes I have run across that pulls the majority of active THC out of the product when compared too other vapes.

Fair enough Devo, but if you are talking extraction efficiency, the herbalaire may be the best due to its unique flow design and temperature compensation, imo.

I have yet too try the herbalaire, it is on my list of must try. If non of my friends get it anytime soon I will get one, had my eye on it for a while.

 

[reece]

Look Polly, see what Max did. He managed to cut down the quoted posts to the relevent bits. It's a lot easier on the eyes.

Whether the post is long or short should have no effect on how "easy" on the eyes it is. Long and short posts have the same font, same background color, same text color. Sound familiar?

Semantics. I understand exactly what you mean, yet I can respond to what you literally said instead. Then we go 'round and 'round about discussing it but we are both talking two different meanings of "easy on the eyes," or in the case of this thread, "efficiency."

 

[nicelytoasted]

Max:

I understand what you are saying, I was referring to extraction efficiency only with my comment on the HA.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the bowl on the HA is relatively small (~ thimble sized) compared to my E, and possibly to many other vapes, (with the exception of the PD or zap), isn't it? As I utilize my HA for my solo sessions, I find that using smallish amounts (~0.05 - 0.07g) meets my requirements nicely. This is where the flow design/extraction efficiency, no grinding and minimal condensation losses comes in. The HA seems to get all of the trichomes/actives every time (I've checked the micropics of before/after).

I guess it can be considered a personal preference combined with my low tolerance. Experience has shown me that I use much less herb with my HA than I do with my E, in general. Although I could raise the temp in the HA to get even more actives, I prefer the lower range to avoid the nasties that release with the higher boiling actives.

 

[MoeOnTheMoon]

I'm sorry I started this thread, now!

I didn't know pollykok had no experience with vapes and therefore not a leg to stand on in comparing their efficiency.

As far as I'm concerned we can call this thread "Case closed".

I think it is clear that all vapes can "get the job done" and extract the active ingredients; it's just that they do it in different ways; some are more oriented towards smaller doses and some are more oriented towards larger doses.

Some seem to be more "efficient" with lower doses, and in spite of poppykok's "pronouncements" about all being equally efficient, he can't know anything about the practical aspect of it because he doesn't vape. He may not even smoke, for all I know!

So I have to wonder, pollykok, why are you even here on this forum? What is your purpose here? I'm not being a dick, I'd really like to know what you are getting out of this since you seem to "have all the answers" already formulated in your mind. Are you trying to convince everyone that there is no efficiency issue? I think many of us here who have tried at least a couple vapes, disagree with that.

 

[The_Other_Shoe]

I would just like to throw in my two cents and sit back. I am not truly one for debate, but I feel that Pollykok's argument is flawed and others obviously do as well.

I am not here to argue the previously set up points, but would like to possibly try to clarify other people's view points, or at least how I see them in my mind.

First, going with Pollykok's theory (heat + bowl + air), (I also would like to state this as an opinion ). If I took a big hitting vape (ie: volcano, SSV, so on) and loaded it with the same amount of herb as a perceived efficient vape (ie: MZ, PD, so on) and tested it, I think that you may get the same amount of THC and other compounds, (while heat is in the same range), but you will get it in very low vapor to air ratios because it isn't coming all at once. It is my opinion that vapor to air ratio is one of the biggest factors in getting high.

If I took a big hitter and loaded it with a full bowl, not trying to be efficient, I could get ripped easily. I attribute this to the fact that if loaded properly, the amount vapor in comparison to the amount of air in my lungs is tremendous. Since my lungs would be absorbing THC or other psychoactives more than air, it would be an easier and stronger high. On the flip side, your argument for loading a small amount into the big hitter to be efficient, would not work well in my opinion. Because there is not enough herb in the air stream, even if all the THC and psychoactives were released, the vapor to air ratio would be very small. With a small vapor to air ratio, there is more air in my lungs than vapor, therefor my lungs would absorb a high percentage of air in comparison to when the vapor to air ratio is large and I am absorbing a high percentage of THC/psychoactive compounds.

If I took the small hitter with the amount of herb it was designed for I would get a high vapor to air ratio. Each vape is designed differently and for different purposes.

When placing the appropriate amount of herb into the vaporizer, it is going to produce the best effects that the company designed it to create. (typically) The big hitters are for people who are looking to get hit hard and fast, usually seen as a party vape, not necessarily for "perceived efficiency". While the smaller vapes provide high vapor to air ratio as well as a small amount of herb.
I understand your point of view, but, each vape is going to take a certain amount of herb to get you where you want. With each vape you are going to have to use that much herb regardless.
(with hypothetical control of how potent the herb is, which Pollykok has used in previous posts) If I regularly load a big hitter with .1 grams (hypothetical and easy numbers for math) before it gets me where I want, I am going to have to use one gram regardless. If I regularly take a small hitter and load .025 grams, and it takes me 2-3 bowls to get high, that is going to be how much I will use. If I took the .1 grams and tried to use a .05 gram bowl, I would have to use 2 bowls to get what I want, even though it is the same amount of herb used in the smaller bowl to get me where I want, the vapor to air ratio will not allow me to "magically" get high off the same amount of herb in a different vaporizer.

If there is anything wrong with my logic please let me know, but that is how I perceive efficiency.

One last thing, you need to get a vape that fits your needs and then you won't have to worry about efficiency. As to Rick's analogy, I believe it is spot on. The person with the Sentra is efficiently doing what they need to do, while if a person needed to haul something (or in this case provide a powerhouse vape for a party) they would have the bigger option, allowing them to be efficient in what they need to get done.

This is the only edit- Sorry for tailing into an already "closed conversation/topic". I still believe my point of view is valid though.

 

[MoeOnTheMoon]

Exactly! Everything The_Other_Shoe said, and it came down just in time!

_Shoe wrote: "On the flip side, your argument for loading a small amount into the big hitter to be efficient, would not work well in my opinion. Because there is not enough herb in the air stream, even if all the THC and psychoactives were released, the vapor to air ratio would be very small. With a small vapor to air ratio, there is more air in my lungs than vapor, therefor my lungs would absorb a high percentage of air in comparison to when the vapor to air ratio is large and I am absorbing a high percentage of THC/psychoactive compounds."

I'll only add that what you wrote here was exactly my experience with the Volcano at a dispensary. Even though I put a much bigger amount into it than I normally use, it was still a small amount compared to what is suggested to load into the Volcano. Therefore I got a nice mellow high, but not nearly as high as I would have gotten with that same amount in my Vapor Genie, or even combusting it, because it had too much air mixed in with it.

The funny thing is, it seems that almost all if not ALL of us agree on what efficiency means and why the PD and MZ are considered "efficient" - except for Pollykok, who has some theory he's trying to prove right, that seems to mean nothing in practical terms of vaping. I think efficiency doesn't matter that much because some people like the high performance model and some like the economy model. Personally if I took the kind of hit it sounds like you get with a Silver Surfer, I'd be unable to function, I'd just have to sit down and veg out for an hour or more... So it's all about what you want in a vape, and what you want in terms of a medicinal dose - or a high.

 

[pollykok]

I would just like to throw in my two cents and sit back. I am not truly one for debate, but I feel that Pollykok's argument is flawed and others obviously do as well.

I am not here to argue the previously set up points, but would like to possibly try to clarify other people's view points, or at least how I see them in my mind.

First, going with Pollykok's theory (heat + bowl + air), (I also would like to state this as an opinion ). If I took a big hitting vape (ie: volcano, SSV, so on) and loaded it with the same amount of herb as a perceived efficient vape (ie: MZ, PD, so on) and tested it, I think that you may get the same amount of THC and other compounds, (while heat is in the same range), but you will get it in very low vapor to air ratios because it isn't coming all at once. It is my opinion that vapor to air ratio is one of the biggest factors in getting high.

If I took a big hitter and loaded it with a full bowl, not trying to be efficient, I could get ripped easily. I attribute this to the fact that if loaded properly, the amount vapor in comparison to the amount of air in my lungs is tremendous. Since my lungs would be absorbing THC or other psychoactives more than air, it would be an easier and stronger high. On the flip side, your argument for loading a small amount into the big hitter to be efficient, would not work well in my opinion. Because there is not enough herb in the air stream, even if all the THC and psychoactives were released, the vapor to air ratio would be very small. With a small vapor to air ratio, there is more air in my lungs than vapor, therefor my lungs would absorb a high percentage of air in comparison to when the vapor to air ratio is large and I am absorbing a high percentage of THC/psychoactive compounds.

If I took the small hitter with the amount of herb it was designed for I would get a high vapor to air ratio. Each vape is designed differently and for different purposes.

When placing the appropriate amount of herb into the vaporizer, it is going to produce the best effects that the company designed it to create. (typically) The big hitters are for people who are looking to get hit hard and fast, usually seen as a party vape, not necessarily for "perceived efficiency". While the smaller vapes provide high vapor to air ratio as well as a small amount of herb.
I understand your point of view, but, each vape is going to take a certain amount of herb to get you where you want. With each vape you are going to have to use that much herb regardless.
(with hypothetical control of how potent the herb is, which Pollykok has used in previous posts) If I regularly load a big hitter with .1 grams (hypothetical and easy numbers for math) before it gets me where I want, I am going to have to use one gram regardless. If I regularly take a small hitter and load .025 grams, and it takes me 2-3 bowls to get high, that is going to be how much I will use. If I took the .1 grams and tried to use a .05 gram bowl, I would have to use 2 bowls to get what I want, even though it is the same amount of herb used in the smaller bowl to get me where I want, the vapor to air ratio will not allow me to "magically" get high off the same amount of herb in a different vaporizer.

If there is anything wrong with my logic please let me know, but that is how I perceive efficiency.

One last thing, you need to get a vape that fits your needs and then you won't have to worry about efficiency. As to Rick's analogy, I believe it is spot on. The person with the Sentra is efficiently doing what they need to do, while if a person needed to haul something (or in this case provide a powerhouse vape for a party) they would have the bigger option, allowing them to be efficient in what they need to get done.

This is the only edit- Sorry for tailing into an already "closed conversation/topic". I still believe my point of view is valid though.

If your theory is that PD's are efficient by giving you a load of THC at once from a small amount, then it would be comparable to bongs vs. bowls.

Bongs definitely do hit you harder at first, no doubt, but you can still get just as high off of a bowl, it just takes longer and is a slightly different experience because it doesn't hit as hard.

Therefore, you may think you are getting more THC from a PD, but it just seems like that merely because it hits you all at once.

So the efficiency still stands.

But if you want to get a bong-type hit from a tiny amount of weed, then a PD would work.
Keeping in mind that you would still easily get a bowl type hit with the same amount of weed from any other vaporizer.

Then again if you are really into bong-type hits a PD will not satisfy you due to the extreme limitation on how much you can vaporize at once.


Also, a volcano vaporizer with a bag will have a HORRIBLE vapor-to-air ratio compared to any other vape. And the volcano may be the exception to my theory of efficiency.

I believe you can still easily reach PD levels of efficiency with other vaporizers as long as they are not using a bag or forced-air intake.

 

[Orange Hairy Mist]

IF the high is based on the vapor to air ratio, and the amount of vapor generated is based solely on heat as a function of time, then I should be able to get just as high off the same amount of weed from this:
http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-937-Dig...ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1255996080&sr=1-7
soldering station, as I would get from the Purple-Days. Thank you all for making me realize this, especially you pollykok, for being a troll.

I'm cancelling my PD order so that people who really want it can get it quicker. I do understand that the bowl size and distance from vapor-producing heat source to mouth matter in terms of condensation and psychological efficiency, and these will be addressed in my new ghetto village soldering iron vaporizer. In case you're wondering, my vaporizer will also be convection-based through fancy pyrex work, which is going to be done later.


Also:

Someday, when cannabis is no longer stigmatized, there will be vaporization studies for people like us to refer to.

 

[pollykok]

IF the high is based on the vapor to air ratio, and the amount of vapor generated is based solely on heat as a function of time, then I should be able to get just as high off the same amount of weed from this:
http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-937-Dig...ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1255996080&sr=1-7
soldering station, as I would get from the Purple-Days. Thank you all for making me realize this, especially you pollykok, for being a troll.

I'm cancelling my PD order so that people who really want it can get it quicker. I do understand that the bowl size and distance from vapor-producing heat source to mouth matter in terms of condensation and psychological efficiency, and these will be addressed in my new ghetto village soldering iron vaporizer. In case you're wondering, my vaporizer will also be convection-based through fancy pyrex work, which is going to be done later.


Also:

Someday, when cannabis is no longer stigmatized, there will be vaporization studies for people like us to refer to.

I'm not going to grace this dumb post with an analysis or helpful response.

Ignorant sarcasm, while it may make you feel better about your purchase, just makes you look retarded.

Great accomplishment, buddy!

 

[The_Other_Shoe]

If your theory is that PD's are efficient by giving you a load of THC at once from a small amount, then it would be comparable to bongs vs. bowls.

Bongs definitely do hit you harder at first, no doubt, but you can still get just as high off of a bowl, it just takes longer and is a slightly different experience because it doesn't hit as hard.

Therefore, you may think you are getting more THC from a PD, but it just seems like that merely because it hits you all at once.

If you get all/most of the THC out at once from a small amount, isn't that considered efficient in comparison to sitting around waiting to get high while loading small amounts into a big hitter and having to repeatedly wait for the small amounts to be in the air stream?

Bongs and bowls are completely different in my opinion from comparing vapes. Bongs and bowls, you are still getting all of the compounds at once. I understand that you can get high from small amounts of herb hit repeatedly in a big hitter but it is unsatisfying, and not time friendly making it inefficient in my mind.

I also don't believe I ever said that you were getting more THC from a small hitting vape, I just tried to state that they are more suited for a situation of efficiency and satisfaction.

I believe that your definition of efficiency may vary from others, skewing everyone's perception of why we are all arguing. From what I have read, your definition of efficiency is just being able to get effects from the same amount of herb in larger vapes. In my opinion and experience it just seems that it doesn't hold true for one reason or another and I can't put my finger on it scientifically but I have tried to explain my thought process logically.

Until we all have agreed on what the exact terms of effiency will be and how it will be discussed, the argument will range back and forth and lead to uncharacterized posts from either view point and possibly accounts being put on some sort of probation, please just keep it orderly. (I know I am not a mod but I am just trying to keep this from flaring.)

 

[bluntfaced]

Even if you have a high vapor to air ratio you will still get just as high it will just take longer.

I've gotten milkier vapor from a volcano than extreme, vapolution or an herbalaire. I wish I could speak for others but I'm not going to pretend I know how well they work based on others people's word and vague scientific knowledge. Sorry Moe on the Moon but you just really don't know what you're talking about. All your posts make it really obvious. I recomebd typing 1/4 as much and vaping 4 times more.

 

[lwien]

But if you want to get a bong-type hit from a tiny amount of weed, then a PD would work.
Keeping in mind that you would still easily get a bowl type hit with the same amount of weed from any other vaporizer.

From much experience comparing different vapes, I can tell you this. The second sentence above is flat out..............WRONG !!!

I can get 5 good hits from a PD bowl. If I want to fill my lungs till I cough, I can get 3 very, very thick hits.
There is no way in hell that you're gonna load up a bowl on any other vape, other than possibly a Zap, that will allow you to do this.

You can try to analyze this all you want, polly, but it doesn't mean shit. What means shit is what actually happens.

(I promise that that was my last troll feeding. I'm plum outta food.)

 

[pollykok]

But if you want to get a bong-type hit from a tiny amount of weed, then a PD would work.
Keeping in mind that you would still easily get a bowl type hit with the same amount of weed from any other vaporizer.

From much experience comparing different vapes, I can tell you this. The second sentence above is flat out..............WRONG !!!

I can get 5 good hits from a PD bowl. If I want to fill my lungs till I cough, I can get 3 very, very thick hits.
There is no way in hell that you're gonna load up a bowl on any other vape, other than possibly a Zap, that will allow you to do this.

You can try to analyze this all you want, polly, but it doesn't mean shit. What means shit is what actually happens.

(I promise that that was my last troll feeding. I'm plum outta food.)

I realize that you won't be able to get thick bong type hits from a big vape with a small amount of herb, I said that.

Also you can still get bowl type hits from a small amount of herb but they will be more air-diluted than with the PD.

Still the same amount of active ingredients regardless (surface condensation aside).

 

[Happycamper]

Will someone please pipe gas into this thread and put us all out of our misery.

(no offence to Moe)

 

[MoeOnTheMoon]

Even if you have a high vapor to air ratio you will still get just as high it will just take longer.

I've gotten milkier vapor from a volcano than extreme, vapolution or an herbalaire. I wish I could speak for others but I'm not going to pretend I know how well they work based on others people's word and vague scientific knowledge. Sorry Moe on the Moon but you just really don't know what you're talking about. All your posts make it really obvious. I recomebd typing 1/4 as much and vaping 4 times more.

Bluntfaced, What exactly did I say that you are referring to? It would help if you'd quote the post you are referring to. I have said very little in this thread. Are you sure you're referring to me?

If so, please clarify? the statement "Sorry Moe on the Moon but you just really don't know what you're talking about. All your posts make it really obvious. I recomebd typing 1/4 as much and vaping 4 times more."

#1, I certainly have not set myself up as being anything other than a newbie coming here to learn.
#2, I have only shared my limited experience with the Volcano and Vapor Genie, as those are the only 2 I have used.
#3, I wrote a few posts back that as far as I'm concerned this thread can be closed, as pollykok is just blowing out hot air and getting people frustrated about his statements not backed by any experience.

 

[pollykok]

Even if you have a high vapor to air ratio you will still get just as high it will just take longer.

I've gotten milkier vapor from a volcano than extreme, vapolution or an herbalaire. I wish I could speak for others but I'm not going to pretend I know how well they work based on others people's word and vague scientific knowledge. Sorry Moe on the Moon but you just really don't know what you're talking about. All your posts make it really obvious. I recomebd typing 1/4 as much and vaping 4 times more.

Bluntfaced, What exactly did I say that you are referring to? It would help if you'd quote the post you are referring to. I have said very little in this thread. Are you sure you're referring to me?

If so, please clarify? the statement "Sorry Moe on the Moon but you just really don't know what you're talking about. All your posts make it really obvious. I recomebd typing 1/4 as much and vaping 4 times more."

#1, I certainly have not set myself up as being anything other than a newbie coming here to learn.
#2, I have only shared my limited experience with the Volcano and Vapor Genie, as those are the only 2 I have used.
#3, I wrote a few posts back that as far as I'm concerned this thread can be closed, as pollykok is just blowing out hot air and getting people frustrated about his statements not backed by any experience.
http://www.timfanelli.com/images/no_idea.jpg

Moe you're a peon.

 

[MoeOnTheMoon]

Moe you're a peon.

Thanks. Coming from you, I'll take that as a compliment.
And I have no idea what you mean by it, but I've already used my Bunny so I'll let it go bunny-less.

 

[MoeOnTheMoon]

Will someone please pipe gas into this thread and put us all out of our misery.

(no offence to Moe)

Thanks for the no offense, Happy. And I totally agree. This thread is going nowhere, and as I already posted, before, it can be closed as far as I'm concerned. Meanwhile I'm just going to try not to post any more. But when I am attacked or misunderstood, I do feel compelled to respond.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Hang in there, Moe ...

How about this? How many hits per load (bowl, trench, vial, etc)? And!!! how long does it take to do that many hits?

For example, i've been loading the vial in my Bud Toaster very lightly -- that is, i don't tamp the crumbled bud down, like i used to do, instead, i let the bud just fill the volume (1/2" dia by 1 3/8" depth) -- and i get about 6 satisfying hits (i.e. visible vapor) and it takes about 5 minutes. The BT countdown timer is set for 7 minutes, but the typical session lasts only 5 to 6 minutes.

Of course, of course --- it ALL depends on the quality of the bud, and this bud is kind of mediocre compared to history.

 

[bluntfaced]

And you keep sharing and sharing and sharing and sharing.

How exactly can you type soooo much with soo little experience. You're just regurgitating everything you've read here over and over and contorting it along the way.

It wouldn't be a big deal you just make sooo many post and they are sooo long and wordy with no new info, new perspectives or new experiences.

 

[stickstones]

That was soooooooo nice, bluntfaced! You vaping some of that ornery weed? Every now and then I get some of that stuff.

 

[bluntfaced]

truth hurts