Are some vaporizers more efficient than others...

Hippie Dickie

The Herbal Cube
Manufacturer
Polly said: Whether or not the vaporizer has an extra wire or two, or a thermometer, etc. is not going to effect the outcome. A vaporizer is heat + bowl + air.
imho, it's really "heat" as a function of time, that is, as the vape session is happening, there are various demands on the heat, and the vaporizer (if properly designed) can create a stable environment.

But, again imho, the efficiency" that i am most interested in is, how much of the trichomes are vaporized. That is, if the ABV still has potency then the vaporizer has failed in its mission.

(Sorry, that's the Everclear talking.)
 
Hippie Dickie,

lwien

Well-Known Member
Hippie Dickie said:
But, again imho, the efficiency" that i am most interested in is, how much of the trichomes are vaporized. That is, if the ABV still has potency then the vaporizer has failed in its mission.

(Sorry, that's the Everclear talking.)
Yeah, different meanings on efficiency. For me, it's a comparison of exactly how much weed it takes to get me to attain a certain level of "highness". With the PD, it takes me less weed to get to that level than with the other vapes that I have tried.
 
lwien,

stickstones

Vapor concierge
I'm with you, lwien. I don't think he'll be here long...I smell a ban a comin'. He better not post anything else without giving us a vape history first.
 
stickstones,

bluntfaced

I'm El Diablo Baby!!!
Why would he get banned though?

Who's all ban happy anyway??? I still don't know who banned me or why...
What happened to Hennessy?? It's like this forum has secret police ore some shit, the atmoshphere here is a tad Orwellian.

mod note: Let me refresh your memory as to why you were banned (again). The offending post was "And fuck all you other haters you guys can lick my digital nuts".That's flaming and should be be obvious to anyone with forum experience that it's not allowed. You only get so many chances here. If we were as strict as you seem to think, you'd have been banned permanently already.
 
bluntfaced,

lwien

Well-Known Member
This site is a helluva lot more lenient than just about any other site that I have been to. You can count on one hand how many people here have received permanent bans. It happens very, very seldom.

Ban happy? This site is FAR from that.

What this site DOES do though is to try and provide a vehicle in which people can come and learn the FACTS about vapes and other peoples personal experiences with a variety of vapes.................not someone's assumptions about vapes. Those assumptions should be in the questions, not the answers.
 
lwien,

pollykok

Well-Known Member
lwien said:
This site is a helluva lot more lenient than just about any other site that I have been to. You can count on one hand how many people here have received permanent bans. It happens very, very seldom.

Ban happy? This site is FAR from that.

What this site DOES do though is to try and provide a vehicle in which people can come and learn the FACTS about vapes and other peoples personal experiences with a variety of vapes.................not someone's assumptions about vapes. Those assumptions should be in the questions, not the answers.
Banning people for actively participating in a discussion that does not side with the PD is pretty BAN HAPPY if you ask me. Especially when they are not spamming, swearing, using derogatory remarks, or doing anything worthy of a ban on a regular forum.


We are discussing presumptions based on scientific principles and a knowledge of how vaporizers work.

No one is pulling random assumptions out of thin air.



Should this site not allow for discussion beyond the simple "I like my PD vaporizer and it makes me feel efficient"?



There are no clear-cut documented facts out there pertaining specifically to these vaporizers, and therefore the scientific presumptions and estimations would be the closest things to facts.


stickstones said:
I'm with you, lwien. I don't think he'll be here long...I smell a ban a comin'. He better not post anything else without giving us a vape history first.
Trying to force a member to post his vaporizing history or ban him? What does the vaporizing history even have to do with this discussion? We are talking about the principles of vaporizing, experience with a specific model of vaporizer doesn't mean that much.

And since when is it in the rule books to disclose your entire vaporizing history or face a ban?



Hippie Dickie said:
Polly said: Whether or not the vaporizer has an extra wire or two, or a thermometer, etc. is not going to effect the outcome. A vaporizer is heat + bowl + air.
imho, it's really "heat" as a function of time, that is, as the vape session is happening, there are various demands on the heat, and the vaporizer (if properly designed) can create a stable environment.

But, again imho, the efficiency" that i am most interested in is, how much of the trichomes are vaporized. That is, if the ABV still has potency then the vaporizer has failed in its mission.

(Sorry, that's the Everclear talking.)
I agree with you.

As you said efficiency is how much of the active chemical is released. And whether or not a vaporizer holds its temperature steady (which I'm assuming most high-end vapes do not have much trouble) they still have the capability of vaporizing all the trichomes, whether it might take a couple seconds longer (for the vaporizer to reach the right temperature again) or not.
 
pollykok,

lwien

Well-Known Member
pollykok said:
Banning people for actively participating in a discussion that does not side with the PD is pretty BAN HAPPY if you ask me.
THAT has never happened and you're a bit myopic to think that it has. Hell, Henny is the biggest pro PD user here and he was banned.

It's not necessarily WHAT you say that will get ya slapped around here, but how you say it and telling a mod that he is abusing his power is a sure fire way to get your butt handed to you on silver platter. It's their site, so, you either play by their rules..........or...........(lol, I should talk, huh?)

But we're now taking this thread off-topic as well, so............back on topic.
 
lwien,

MoeOnTheMoon

Medical Marijuana Activist
Company Rep
Rick said:
Maybe someone much smarter can elaborate on "efficiencies of scale".

A Sentra will get you from A to B more "efficiently" than a Cummins turbo diesel. But the big guy will get a cord of wood from A to B more efficiently.
They both convert energy to transportation.
Different tokes for different folks.
That's what I'm sayin', Rick!
Some people are going to prefer a PD, some a Volcano, some a MZ, and others an Extreme...
Whatever floats yer boat.
Just like some will prefer a speedboat, others maybe a canoe, and others a yacht. Depends on how you're using it...
 
MoeOnTheMoon,

MoeOnTheMoon

Medical Marijuana Activist
Company Rep
bluntfaced said:
MoeOnTheMoon said:
bluntfaced said:
You are completely high, yes. This is ridiculous and the last thing this place needs is another PD vs. MZ thread. Come on dude.....

The answer to your question is yes though, and it will become quite apparent when you actually get your hands on some of these vapes you're so knowledgeable about.
I don't recall asking your opinion about the thread itself, but go ahead and spout off. I suggest if you don't like the thread, don't participate in it. That's easy enough, right?

And I NEVER said anything like "I am knowledgeable about vapes"! Maybe you're confusing me with the guy who made the scooter analogy.

:peace:
Good thing you don't have to ask for my opinion then.

You really just have to use some of these vapes though.
It will become incredibly apparent that efficiency is all about how you use it. Comparing PD and MZ or SSV and DB for efficiency is a waste of time.

Being super duber efficient is also not very fun, sometimes I just want to get ripped.
Sorry if I got pissy, bluntfaced, I felt like the thread was being misunderstood and I was being attacked.

If you read carefully what I wrote in the first post, I did not write it to compare the MZ to the PD, specifically; I wrote it to invite people to compare various vapes for efficiency. I thought it would be an interesting discussion and I might learn something from it. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I totally agree that to really know about them, you have to try them, but I don't have a buncha money to spend and so all I can do is read, to try and figure out where to put my -limited- money.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you say that efficiency "is all about how you use it". As to whether comparing them for efficiency is a waste of time or not remains to be seen, but it seems to me that it can be educational to get people's informed opinions about "efficiency".

The problem with pollykok is that he seems to be making assumptions about things based on a theory but I'm not sure he has enough experience for his opinion to be worth a whole lot.

But anyway, I have made no pronouncements at all except that I was told by a professional bud-tender that the Volcano is not very efficient for using small doses. My experience in using it that day seemed to confirm what he said. Other than that, I have only Vapor Genie experience, and I think it can be efficient IF you really learn to use it expertly. But it's easy to burn the herb with the VG until you get it down. If you can learn to do it just right, then the VG can be very efficient for vaporizing small quantities.
:peace:
 
MoeOnTheMoon,

bluntfaced

I'm El Diablo Baby!!!
The volcano is perfectly efficient at small doses it is just unpleasant and rather unsatisfying. It will still get you there you will just realllyyyy want to load it up and rip that shit.
 
bluntfaced,

MoeOnTheMoon

Medical Marijuana Activist
Company Rep
bluntfaced said:
The volcano is perfectly efficient at small doses it is just unpleasant and rather unsatisfying. It will still get you there you will just realllyyyy want to load it up and rip that shit.
Can it be called "efficient" if a small dose is "just unpleasant and unsatisfying". I think part of the definition of "efficieny" for a vaporizer would mean that it could get you high and satisfied at small doses. At least, that would be part of my definition of "efficiency" as it pertains to a vaporizer.

Some people just want to conserve mj due to the price. That's a very good reason. But other people are looking for efficiency in the ability to get a good vape or two off a very small dose, because they are looking to get smaller doses, like maybe only one medium vape.

I'll give you an example: Tonight I was further experimenting with my Vapor Genie, and I COULD get a very small dose from it, with only loading like .020 g, something like that. So the Vapor Genie can be efficient by my definition of being able to get high enough - again, for ME - from a very small amount. I know from experience that I got less high loading twice that much into the Volcano. I did LIKE the Volcano high, myself. But it was very mellow, very weak, I would even say, for the amount I put in.

So, to me, the Vapor Genie can be very efficient. The problem with the Genie is that there is a relatively long learning curve inherent in it. I mean, yeah, you can make vapor pretty quickly. But making vapor to just the right strength and size is a bit of a challenge. Whereas, from what I hear of the PD, the MZ, the Launch Box, there is much less challenge to getting somewhere near a "perfect" vapor with a relatively small amount.

Someone mentioned the size of the bowl as being important. I think that is probably mostly true. If the bowl is designed for small hits, and the vape is designed for small hits, then that is probably going to be more efficient than a vape designed with a big bowl for big hits.

But if someone wants a big hit from a big bowl, then he's going to want one like that. Is it more efficient, no; but is it better for that person? Yes.

But I'm not talking about which is "better", here; I'm talking about which is more "efficient" for x amount of herb to cause x amount of stoned and being able to get a good high from a small hit. Again, that is part of my definition of "efficiency".

Ideas like "the bowl size matters" I think are valid points to be made about efficiency. Is it true? I don't know, but from what people are saying, it sounds like it might be true. And that's the point of this thread, to me: to speculate on these things and bring out working theories as to "what makes an efficient vaporizer". Sorry this was so long. It's late and I'm obsessing, I know. Believe me, none of this really matters that much. I just find it interesting.
 
MoeOnTheMoon,

pollykok

Well-Known Member
MoeOnTheMoon said:
bluntfaced said:
The volcano is perfectly efficient at small doses it is just unpleasant and rather unsatisfying. It will still get you there you will just realllyyyy want to load it up and rip that shit.
Can it be called "efficient" if a small dose is "just unpleasant and unsatisfying". I think part of the definition of "efficieny" for a vaporizer would mean that it could get you high and satisfied at small doses. At least, that would be part of my definition of "efficiency" as it pertains to a vaporizer.

Some people just want to conserve mj due to the price. That's a very good reason. But other people are looking for efficiency in the ability to get a good vape or two off a very small dose, because they are looking to get smaller doses, like maybe only one medium vape.

I'll give you an example: Tonight I was further experimenting with my Vapor Genie, and I COULD get a very small dose from it, with only loading like .020 g, something like that. So the Vapor Genie can be efficient by my definition of being able to get high enough - again, for ME - from a very small amount. I know from experience that I got less high loading twice that much into the Volcano. I did LIKE the Volcano high, myself. But it was very mellow, very weak, I would even say, for the amount I put in.

So, to me, the Vapor Genie can be very efficient. The problem with the Genie is that there is a relatively long learning curve inherent in it. I mean, yeah, you can make vapor pretty quickly. But making vapor to just the right strength and size is a bit of a challenge. Whereas, from what I hear of the PD, the MZ, the Launch Box, there is much less challenge to getting somewhere near a "perfect" vapor with a relatively small amount.

Someone mentioned the size of the bowl as being important. I think that is probably mostly true. If the bowl is designed for small hits, and the vape is designed for small hits, then that is probably going to be more efficient than a vape designed with a big bowl for big hits.

But if someone wants a big hit from a big bowl, then he's going to want one like that. Is it more efficient, no; but is it better for that person? Yes.

But I'm not talking about which is "better", here; I'm talking about which is more "efficient" for x amount of herb to cause x amount of stoned and being able to get a good high from a small hit. Again, that is part of my definition of "efficiency".

Ideas like "the bowl size matters" I think are valid points to be made about efficiency. Is it true? I don't know, but from what people are saying, it sounds like it might be true. And that's the point of this thread, to me: to speculate on these things and bring out working theories as to "what makes an efficient vaporizer". Sorry this was so long. It's late and I'm obsessing, I know. Believe me, none of this really matters that much. I just find it interesting.
By unpleasant and unsatisfying he did not mean that it would not get you as high, he means that the vapor will not be as thick and you will want to use more. Efficiency is still there....

Ideas like "the bowl size matters" have been rebutted against. Not only that but we've already talked about the other variables in a "small size vape" and how they can easily be emulated to achieve the same efficiency.

It sucks when threads come in that completely ignore what stage the argument is at in a thread, and it might be confusing to new readers.

MoeOnTheMoon said:
Rick said:
Maybe someone much smarter can elaborate on "efficiencies of scale".

A Sentra will get you from A to B more "efficiently" than a Cummins turbo diesel. But the big guy will get a cord of wood from A to B more efficiently.
They both convert energy to transportation.
Different tokes for different folks.
That's what I'm sayin', Rick!
Some people are going to prefer a PD, some a Volcano, some a MZ, and others an Extreme...
Whatever floats yer boat.
Just like some will prefer a speedboat, others maybe a canoe, and others a yacht. Depends on how you're using it...
Again, just completely jumping in without reading.

I hope that anyone who hasn't read the thread yet take the time and look back because these posts just come straight out of left field.
 
pollykok,

Rick

Zapman
Ya know Polly, I was doing my best to give you the benefit of the doubt until the "these posts come straight out of left field" comment. Everybody here is contributing in their own way with serious thought behind the comments they make.
Efficiency is not all science. Sorry but there is a human factor too. Yes, it can be subjective. One thing I notice here in the Pacific Northwest is a whole lotta people driving those big diesel pick-ups. Guys, girls, young and old and most have absolutely no "need" for the extra power and space but they drive them and love them. To those owners their rigs are very "efficient". Maybe not to others.

So what's this? We all supposed to be scientists in a lab somewhere?
Some vapes are more efficient with small loads and some are more efficient with big loads. Big Deal. And some apparently are not very efficient with big or small loads.
Try one Polly.
 
Rick,

DevoTheStrange

Ia! Ia! Vapor Fthagn!
my :2c: on the issue of efficiency. Yes it is pretty much exploiting the three variables of herb, air, and heat... but efficiency comes into play by how each one of the vapes manipulates these variables. A small amount in the PD is efficient in that the bowl size and vape design allows for a larger amount of THC too be pulled from the herb. Take the same amount of herb and put it into a much larger vape and you wont get the same results. I say this from experience. Too much air flowing over the herb, or rather not enough herb to restrict the airflow so it does not get the full benefit of the heated air.
you can put a tiny bowl inside something like a Vapor Cannon or something similar and still get high off of it. But you will find that your bowl is not vaped entirely when you are done. You can normally take that bowl out and put it another vape too get the remaining THC.
Would be like going from a SSV too a vaporgenie too finish off the bowl.
Now with the PD and MZ, IME, you more often than not finish off the whole bowl and have no need too put it in another vape too pull out any THC you left... it isnt worth it.
so for me at least, both the PD and the MZ are one of the few vapes I have run across that pulls the majority of active THC out of the product when compared too other vapes.
Yes other vapes can do it as well, just alot more work than one is used too...


another good example of making your vape work for you is the Elbow pack Method in the Extreme vaporizer... your taking a small amount of product and putting into a vape in such a way that all of the airflow is maximized by shoving a tiny amount of herb into the smallest space in the bowl set up. Doing this allows for more of the herb too receive good airflow and not be missed.
not all vapes are efficient right at the get go... Some take modifcations in either equipment or how the user approaches their vaping style
 
DevoTheStrange,

pollykok

Well-Known Member
Rick said:
Ya know Polly, I was doing my best to give you the benefit of the doubt until the "these posts come straight out of left field" comment. Everybody here is contributing in their own way with serious thought behind the comments they make.
Efficiency is not all science. Sorry but there is a human factor too. Yes, it can be subjective. One thing I notice here in the Pacific Northwest is a whole lotta people driving those big diesel pick-ups. Guys, girls, young and old and most have absolutely no "need" for the extra power and space but they drive them and love them. To those owners their rigs are very "efficient". Maybe not to others.

So what's this? We all supposed to be scientists in a lab somewhere?
Some vapes are more efficient with small loads and some are more efficient with big loads. Big Deal. And some apparently are not very efficient with big or small loads.
Try one Polly.
I was referring to Moe's posts, and it wasn't a flame.

Because ignoring or missing posts in the thread, skipping over them and responding to old rebutted ideas as though they weren't rebutted just creates a regression in the thread. This is counter-productive and doesn't really help contribute to the end goal of the thread, which would be to come up with an answer. This also may further lead to new users of the thread to believe that the ideas that he responded to are the latest ones in the debate, which again may cause them to post on them regressing the thread even further.

But anyway, the point is that the efficiency between two vaporizers is not comparable to the efficiency difference between a tiny sedan and a giant diesel truck. A giant diesel truck literally requires you to use more fuel, while no vaporizer requires you to use more "fuel" than any other. The only comparison you could make would be the surface area condensation of a vaporizer to the weight of the truck, but I've already talked about that and it's relatively simple work-around.


DevoTheStrange said:
my :2c: on the issue of efficiency. Yes it is pretty much exploiting the three variables of herb, air, and heat... but efficiency comes into play by how each one of the vapes manipulates these variables. A small amount in the PD is efficient in that the bowl size and vape design allows for a larger amount of THC too be pulled from the herb. Take the same amount of herb and put it into a much larger vape and you wont get the same results. I say this from experience. Too much air flowing over the herb, or rather not enough herb to restrict the airflow so it does not get the full benefit of the heated air.
you can put a tiny bowl inside something like a Vapor Cannon or something similar and still get high off of it. But you will find that your bowl is not vaped entirely when you are done. You can normally take that bowl out and put it another vape too get the remaining THC.
Would be like going from a SSV too a vaporgenie too finish off the bowl.
Now with the PD and MZ, IME, you more often than not finish off the whole bowl and have no need too put it in another vape too pull out any THC you left... it isnt worth it.
so for me at least, both the PD and the MZ are one of the few vapes I have run across that pulls the majority of active THC out of the product when compared too other vapes.
Yes other vapes can do it as well, just alot more work than one is used too...
This I can agree with.

It may take more time to get the THC out of a small bowl with a regular sized vaporizer, just due to the fact that the heated air isn't as concentrated, but other vaporizers are still going to get the same amount of THC.

The THC is still all in there and if you just stir it or wait a little bit longer you are going to get as much of the THC out as with any other vaporizer. There is no reason to transfer it to another vaporizer. Most vaporizers if used in an efficient manner will be able to have the out-of-the-box efficiency of the PD or MZ, and that's the point.

So no THC is wasted, and you are still getting it all. Efficiency.
 
pollykok,

Happycamper

Sweet Dreams Babycakes
Well i've given up trying to read the thread with polly quoting entire posts of everything that anyone else has ever said. It makes it difficult to follow in such long posts. Snip the quotes down to relevant points please.

pollykok said:
Again, just completely jumping in without reading.

I hope that anyone who hasn't read the thread yet take the time and look back because these posts just come straight out of left field.
:uhoh::uhoh:
 
Happycamper,

DevoTheStrange

Ia! Ia! Vapor Fthagn!
pollykok said:
This I can agree with.

It may take more time to get the THC out of a small bowl with a regular sized vaporizer, just due to the fact that the heated air isn't as concentrated, but other vaporizers are still going to get the same amount of THC.

The THC is still all in there and if you just stir it or wait a little bit longer you are going to get as much of the THC out as with any other vaporizer. There is no reason to transfer it to another vaporizer. Most vaporizers if used in an efficient manner will be able to have the out-of-the-box efficiency of the PD or MZ, and that's the point.

So no THC is wasted, and you are still getting it all. Efficiency.
The reason I have come too this conclusion was I noticed that amount of material i put into my Iolite would give a certain amount of hits, and if I used that same amount in my PD (albiet several tubes instead of one) I got the same amount of hits.
However if I try too use one PD bowl in my iolite it takes forever too vape because the chamber has reduced quality of airflow. too much air coming in and cooling everything down. The more herb in the chamber of the iolite the more effecient it becomes. The herb helps the iolite keep its heat.
Sure I can vape the same amount of herb in my IO, but I would rather not. Why? because it takes too damn long too fully vape the herb.
now if you are not willing too sit it out an vape it all the way too the end, it can feel like your getting cheated and the vape isnt doing what you want it too do.
 
DevoTheStrange,

tuttle

Well-Known Member
Ulgh, just try a few different vapes and see. What people are getting at but your are so reticent to believe or try is that with some vapes it is a lot easier to use small loads. That is it. That ease translates into a more effective session (because you don't have to sit for 45 minutes trying to get every last bit off your load). If you don't believe it then so be it, but don't tell people who have a LOT of experience with a lot of different vapes that their observations are moot because according to your theory every manufactured item reaches a 100% efficiency threshold.
 
tuttle,

lord

Well-Known Member
Efficient

1. performing or functioning in the best possible manner with the least waste of time and effort; having and using requisite knowledge, skill, and industry; competent; capable: a reliable, efficient secretary.
2. Exhibiting a high ratio of output to input.
3. satisfactory and economical to use: Our new air conditioner is more efficient than our old one.


polly, define efficient.
 
lord,

macbill

Oh No! Mr macbill!!
Staff member
Purple-Days said:
empiricism vs. rationalism :2c:
Succinct and true. Is it worth the effort to quantify extraction on a group of similarly efficient tools? Consumer Reports classifies in groupings and claims the ratings off between close contenders to be insignificant.

Additionally, I've been partaking regularly since 1967. Can my perceived level of stoniness be compared to a newbie, or even myself after a week-away from herb? I think: not so well.

The Sciences vs Liberal Arts
 
macbill,

reece

Well-Known Member
bluntfaced said:
The volcano is perfectly efficient at small doses it is just unpleasant and rather unsatisfying. It will still get you there you will just realllyyyy want to load it up and rip that shit.
I think pollykok is playing a semantics game to amuse himself. Most here understand that we can pack a larger bowl with less herbs. But, as you say, and others have said, it isn't as satisfying. And it may take longer. Still gets the job done, but it isn't the same experience.

I believe, as lord is pointing out, pollykok is speaking of efficiency strictly in terms of extraction of THC, while others are using a more complete definition. Semantics. And I believe he is perfectly aware of this.

Stop replying to him. Don't feed the troll.
 
reece,

lwien

Well-Known Member
reece said:
Stop replying to him. Don't feed the troll.
Totally agree. In his sig, he states that he has NEVER used a vape and yet, professes that he knows enough about them to offer expert opinion.

Gonna put my troll food away for awhile.
 
lwien,
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