Are IH powered E-rigs the future?

[Photonic]

I was checking out the Dablamp and Ispire Wand again recently, and was wondering if Puffco Peak style e-rigs would start to switch over to IH. It seems like the technology would be easier to maintain and are effective.

I use IHs for Dynavaps and love it. It would be nice to have a semi-portable IH e-rig in a simple, convenient form factor.

Do you think that's the way things could be headed? I kind of don't want to deal with coils and replacing heaters TBH. Maybe I'm just lazy....

Seems like you could have several metal bowls and cups you could swap out and clean easier? Dunno.

 

[invertedisdead]

I can’t think of a single benefit to induction heating a dab.

Much more reliable temperature control is available through other heating methods. And there’s plenty of ways to do swappable bowls without using induction.

 

[Texus]

I can’t think of a single benefit to induction heating a dab.

Much more reliable temperature control is available through other heating methods. And there’s plenty of ways to do swappable bowls without using induction.

I mean, have you actually used IH? My favorite way to dab, whether via a Switch or the amazing iSpire Wand. Both have very usable temp adjustments, making for easy high quality, repeatable hits. And no more need to fuss with atomizers compared to e-rigs.

Not sure what you are mentally comparing IHs to, but haven't used my Source attty e-rig or DItanium since getting Switch and iSpire, and also prefer those to my B-Rod from Cannabis hardware. Only dabbing tool I used more is the RIo, where there is little reliable temp control if you are thinking about repeatability and knowing temp of your dab.

 

[invertedisdead]

I mean, have you actually used IH? My favorite way to dab, whether via a Switch or the amazing iSpire Wand. Both have very usable temp adjustments, making for easy high quality, repeatable hits. And no more need to fuss with atomizers compared to e-rigs.

Not sure what you are mentally comparing IHs to, but haven't used my Source attty e-rig or DItanium since getting Switch and iSpire, and also prefer those to my B-Rod from Cannabis hardware. Only dabbing tool I used more is the RIo, where there is little reliable temp control if you are thinking about repeatability and knowing temp of your dab.

Do explain with science how induction heating provides more accurate temperature control than Temperature Coefficient of Resistance or a thermocouple probe.

Also explain how electromagnetically generated conduction heating is superior to “regular” conduction heating. I see no benefits.

 

[arb]

Ain't all dabs conduction............not talking about porous stones?

 

[invertedisdead]

Ain't all dabs conduction............not talking about porous stones?

Even those porous wicks largely work on the conduction principal. Hot air heats the ceramic (or stainless) which conducts heat over a massive surface area to vaporize the concentrate.

 

[arb]

Even those porous wicks largely work on the conduction principal. Hot air heats the ceramic (or stainless) which conducts heat over a massive surface area to vaporize the concentrate.

Well sheeeeeit............ I stand by my original statement then.

 

[Texus]

Do explain with science how induction heating provides more accurate temperature control than Temperature Coefficient of Resistance or a thermocouple probe.

Also explain how electromagnetically generated conduction heating is superior to “regular” conduction heating. I see no benefits.

Sorry if I can't fulfill your science needs. IH in actual experience are a pleasure to use, whether the Switch or wand. If I know the temp or setting that gives me the type of hit in am looking for, then I am all good. If really curious about temps then I pull out my Terpometer. But that's has sat in a drawer for a long time now. Generally not needed.

And lack of exposed hot components that could give nasty burns is another nice aspect.

UX counts for a lot too.

 

[BabyFacedFinster]

I just watched Troy and Jerry's review of the dablamp with IH heating.

The IH portion looks like it has some promise. IDK if you really get anything better than with a temp controlled heater. Looks like you can get a good hit.
But the interface, the method for loading and cleaning, and the likelihood that the glass joints will break on a regular basis makes it a big no-go for me. Looks like a big pain in the ass for $260.

 

[Photonic]

Appreciate the dialogue. I think there are likely valid opinions for and against different designs.

That said, my "gut" says IH will be much more prevalent over the next few years. We'll see I guess.

 

[someTooL]

Dusted off the DCup/Sapphire today for some memories. Don’t get me wrong, it is more efficient and tastes great…but the Wand has been a total game changer for me. I’m not a torch god so it’s makes those quick dabs so convenient. Maybe too convenient.

 

[Texus]

Dusted off the DCup/Sapphire today for some memories. Don’t get me wrong, it is more efficient and tastes great…but the Wand has been a total game changer for me. I’m not a torch god so it’s makes those quick dabs so convenient. Maybe too convenient.

Yeah, Wand is a dreamy device. Such ease of heating without a torch or a cord.

 

[LesPlenty]

Seems like you could have several metal bowls and cups you could swap out and clean easier?

I purchased 2 extra sets of dab bowls for a total of 5 for the Wand, I was going to drip rosin directly from the press into them for easy loading like the old Space Invaders game... the problem is all my rosin is now buddering/crystalizing as I press and am not getting drips anymore.
I love IH...witchcraft I tell ya! Notice how high-end cooktops are now IH...I do think it is the way of the future but there will be a place for other heat styles...the Puffco Peak Pro has a dab counter and some users are getting 6000-10,000 dabs per atty so not frail like some others in the past.

 

[invertedisdead]

IH in actual experience are a pleasure to use, whether the Switch or wand. If I know the temp or setting that gives me the type of hit in am looking for, then I am all good.

Would you say that being able to choose a temperature setting is an induction specific feature?

I thought this thread was about highlighting the benefits of induction e-rigs over other methods. I agree with everything you said, I just don’t see any of it being induction specific.

And lack of exposed hot components that could give nasty burns is another nice aspect.

Totally agree! But again - not induction specific. There are dozens of dab devices which feature no exposed hot components, that don’t use induction heating.

UX counts for a lot too.

Absolutely agree! This is why oil cartridges outsell dabs in jars by ~40:1 here. It turns out that loading dabs, cleaning dabs, cleaning buckets, and waiting for gear to heat up, all negatively impact the user experience.

I predict we will see much more induction charging - the Peak Pro uses this (Optionally) and it automatically starts heating to your last set temp just by picking the device up off the charger.

 

[BabyFacedFinster]

I also think we will be seeing IH heaters in more stuff down the road. With dynavap IH's they are just starting to come out with devices that have temp stepping technology so they can be fine tuned.

In the meantime, my next purchase will probably be Divine Tribe's new V5. We just found out that Matt is designing a new version of the Core erig which will have faster heating and use his buckets that heat from the bottom and sides. Not IH, but promising new technology for that erig.

 

[florduh]

Absolutely agree! This is why oil cartridges outsell dabs in jars by ~40:1 here. It turns out that loading dabs, cleaning dabs, cleaning buckets, and waiting for gear to heat up, all negatively impact the user experience.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... you don't know how OCD and weird q-tipping a banger looks to non-dabbers. This comes from years of trying to convert cartridge users to dabbing. I gave up.

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

@invertedisdead technically all temp measurement happens based on Seebeck effect. If you can measure shift in voltage/resistance ,you can measure temp .
So it is possible with induction also. The sole benefit i see of induction ,is to have a true all glass air path. It would require some design work of course,but you can avoid having a hot metal in the airpath ). Having the heater/plate embedded in the glass is pretty cool.
Of course all glass air path can happen with conduction setup too, but you have to use some kind of carb cap that draw air away from the heated coil.

Resistance thermometer - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thermocouple - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[invertedisdead]

@invertedisdead technically all temp measurement happens based on Seebeck effect. If you can measure shift in voltage/resistance ,you can measure temp .
So it is possible with induction also. The sole benefit i see of induction ,is to have a true all glass air path. It would require some design work of course,but you can avoid having a hot metal in the airpath ). Having the heater/plate embedded in the glass is pretty cool.
Of course all glass air path can happen with conduction setup too, but you have to use some kind of carb cap that draw air away from the heated coil.

I'm aware of how resistance works, but I don't see how the Ispire Wand would measure a change in resistance? Any ideas?

IMO I don't see induction as being ideal for a glass air path at all as induction specifically requires a susceptor for the electromagnetism to conduct. Where induction would truly excel is heating a magnetically coupled stainless steel bowl, just like induction cooktops.

If you look at the wand for example, it has a metal ring embedded in the glass which heats the sidealls directly. But there's nothing in the floor to generate heat. It reminds me of when enails switched from barrel coils which only heated the sidealls, to the axial coils.

IMHO there are some other methods for achieving a true all glass pathway that are preferable for a number of reasons. If I can build one for less than $1000 maybe I'll post more about it

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

I cannot talk about the wand,but if you know the coefficient of the Metal strip inside the heater, you can measure a temp of the strip via TCR, just like with ecig mods. The wand looks like a modbox with a wired induction coil to it. We are talking about the future here. It is not hard do design a cup with metal at the bottom too. Probably the wand is not very accurate in providing the temp of the dabbing surface cause there is feedback between the metal and the glass,but maybe they measured it and did offsets in the calibration.

 

[invertedisdead]

I cannot talk about the wand,but if you know the coefficient of the Metal strip inside the heater, you can measure via TCR,just like with ecig mods ,the wand looks like a modbox with a wired induction coil to it.

How do you measure TCR wirelessly?

It is not hard do design a cup with metal at the bottom too.

You think that would be easy? I'm still amazed they were actually able to embed metal in the sidewalls without splitting from thermal expansion. I have no idea how they make that part, but in my expereince working with glass manufacturers, it doesn't seem that simple to me.

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

How do you measure TCR wirelessly?



You think that would be easy? I'm still amazed they were actually able to embed metal in the sidewalls without splitting from thermal expansion. I have no idea how they make that part, but in my expereince working with glass manufacturers, it doesn't seem that simple to me.

The same way you do with wired coils. For example with e-cig coils if you know the Material and the Gauge and Lengths you can calculate resistance . Then with simply measuring the drain (volts and amps) you can calculate temperature .
Well i said designing would be easy,but producing it maybe not so, maybe in the future it will be easier .
Here is an example for 316L 19 AWG ... 1.15 Ω/m

Inner diameter
2mm
Wraps
10
Leg length
5mm
Wrap spacing
0.05mm

Single wire
Results
Resistance 0.144 Ω
... per unit length 1.15 Ω/m
TCR in vaping range 879 ×10-6
TC precision 127
Heat flux per Watt 2.78 mW/mm²
Heat capacity 327.98 mJ/K
Current per Volt 6.94 A
Power dissipated 100.00 %
Diameter 0.91 mm
Length 125.52 mm
Surface area 359.63 mm²
Cross section area 0.65 mm²
Volume 82.00 mm³
Mass 655.96 mg
Density 8.00 g/ccm

Sorry for the multiple edits but i am stoned out of my mind ! Cheers !

 

[invertedisdead]

Well i said designing would be easy,but producing it maybe not so, maybe in the future it will be easier .

I'm familiar with that problem!

 

[Cheebsy]

Surely you can only measure the resistance of the coil in the IH though? Does that change with applied load? Wouldn't the temp of the coil have an effect too with successive uses? I'm unfamiliar with IH electronics but I wouldn't have thought you could measure resistance indirectly. I'd love to find out I'm wrong though!

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

Surely you can only measure the resistance of the coil in the IH though? Does that change with applied load? Wouldn't the temp of the coil have an effect too with successive uses? I'm unfamiliar with IH electronics but I wouldn't have thought you could measure resistance indirectly. I'd love to find out I'm wrong though!

Please take a look at Ohms law. If you know how many amps and volts you have you can measure the resistance.. It is measured at the Gate. My knowledge on the subject is pretty limited as my English .
Either you transmit the electricity via wire or via magnetic wave ,you still receive data of the drain...
You dont measure the resistance of the coil. It is copper it almost has no resistance. It is a super conductor, you measure the resistance of the heated material.
Take a look at any ecig coil calculator and you will get all the explanations you need. Just by knowing the material type and the amount you can know the resistance.
As in the example above. 316L 19 AWG ... 1.15 Ω/m . If you have 1 meter SS316L 19 awg coil heated by induction ,resistance will be 1.15. When heated it will rise, therefore it will be noticed by the drain and if a curve is dialed temperature can be calculated. Amps ,volts and resistance are correlated and if change any of them it is reflected on the others.(or at least one of the values)

Ohms Law Calculator

Simple to use Ohm's Law Calculator. Calculate Power, Current, Voltage or Resistance. Just enter 2 known values and the calculator will solve for the others.

ohmslawcalculator.com

 

[Cheebsy]

Thanks man, I'm quite familiar with ohms law, the heating element you are trying to manage is electrically isolated, so there are no volts or amps. It has a resistance that could change if it were connected, but it isn't!

If it was trivial, wouldn't most DV IH be temp regulated?