Are clouds of vapor counterproductive?

S

sickmanfraud

Well-Known Member
Guys and Gals.

I have a question that I would like to ask as many folks as possible....

Has anyone done any studies on the cannabinoid content of exhaled vapor compared to inhaled vapor??

Is it possible that cloud chasing wastes more medicine than sipping??
 
KeroZen

KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
Are you asking for troubles young fellow? ^ ^

This is a long lasting debate... some say they feel more medicated if they can exhale a giant cloud... I'm not convinced.

One thing is sure: exhale your vapor into someone else's mouth, and that person will get high. That's a fact. Now you can draw the conclusion you like...
 
Delta3DStudios

Delta3DStudios

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
I'll admit it, I fucked combustion about 14 months ago with the Davinci Ascent. It was underpowered, but the flavor was spectacular. After that broke, I began my lust for clouds with a new vape.

I started to cloud chase like a crazy with my next vape (the Lotus) and on to my current cloud machine - the Nano. For months I've used my Nano almost exclusively.

Yet, I find myself getting more medicated on road trips with my portable vapes. Why? Because I'm sipping away, not blowing huge clouds at all. I'm getting more medicated using the same quantities of herbs from my underpowered vapes (Ascent, Indica, Pax1 currently), it just takes a little longer than ripping away on several loads with the Nano.

Do I still like my Nano? Sure, love it - won't ever get rid of it. But I think I need to find a better daily driver for a few weeks and see how I do.
 
stickstones

stickstones

Vapor concierge
No studies yet, but I guarantee it will get studied as we loosen the political grips!

Here's what I think so far:

- clouds might be wasteful. BUT, in contrast to @KeroZen 's experience, I once exhaled into a bag until it was full and then emptied that bag to finish the session. I got nothing good out of it...no taste and no effect. ever since I stopped thinking about clouds being wasteful.
- after using the herbalaire I am rethinking clouds. the HA tops out at 400F and does not need grinding. the clouds are not as thick, but the effect is there and the vapor is very smooth and comfortable. This is getting me to thing that the cloudier high temp hits with ground bud are thicker mostly due to more particulate being released into the vapor. I'm going to have to do some testing on other vapes at 400 max to see if it lines up.
- at this point in time we don't really know, so let's not act like we do!
 
Mulehead

Mulehead

Well-Known Member
Ratchett said:
Yet, I find myself getting more medicated on road trips with my portable vapes. Why? Because I'm sipping away, not blowing huge clouds at all. I'm getting more medicated using the same quantities of herbs from my underpowered vapes (Ascent, Indica, Pax1 currently), it just takes a little longer than ripping away on several loads with the Nano.
Click to expand...

I almost hate to :worms: but...
Ya reckon that has more to due with vape signature?
 
KeroZen

KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
Yes, hot topic, open to debate!

My only advice: enjoy vaping the way you like it more, that's the only important thing. Big or small clouds, holding vapor or not, as long as you get properly medicated and feel you got enough for your money in the end it doesn't matter.
 
KeroZen

KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
In the Ascent case I'm convinced there's something subtle at play, and 'vape signature' is the only term we are able to coin... but I think it has something to do with particulates size, as discussed in the "temperature dependent effects" thread.

It's really hard to explain but the Ascent vapor quality is clearly the best of all the portable vapes I've tested (it's more noticeable the lower the temperature you go, because at high temps whatever the vape the taste will cook away pretty fast)

Maybe it's a combination of gentle heating, the mostly glass vapor path and the rather long cooling surface (for a portable)... hm but I'm derailng the thread again, sorry! :x
 
Solomon

Solomon

Talk to the Beard
I've only been vaping for less than a year, but I think you get more medication from sipping medium vapor for over 10+ mins, than you would taking a few lung-busters of super thick vapor. The initial effect might seem like the lung-buster is better (you know, that dizzying-gonna-pass-out-coughing type of hit that feels like an old fashioned bong hit), but that bit of oxygen-deprivation followed by hyper-ventilating passes quickly.

A good example might be bags. I can fill a bag of thick vapor with my Rise, and some friends feel like they will get higher if they try to take the bag all at once. They cough and wheeze and then look like they are gonna pass out, while I slowly sip on my bag. 20 mins later, I seem to be more medicated than they are.

I think there is a limit to how much you can absorb in a single lung-full, and if you go past that limit, you're just throwing away vapor. So...I think that slowly taking in many hits over 5-10 mins assures that every hit can be fully absorbed every time giving you the highest quantity of meds.

As @stickstones says, eventually someone will study this and we will now for sure.

I did find this study (they used a Volcano):
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jps.20574/full

" It was found that an average of about 54% of loaded THC was delivered into the balloon of the vaporizer, in a reproducible manner. When the vaporizer was used for clinical administration of inhaled THC, it was found that on average 35% of inhaled THC was directly exhaled again."

I also recall a study (Hightimes I believe) indicating that 100% of lung absorption occurs in the first 3-5 seconds, and "holding it in" is not effective at increasing that absorption rate. If true, this also seems to indicate that there is a maximum absorption rate.
 
KeroZen

KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
Yes and this led to the "partial re-inhalation" technic, where you start exhaling a bit, then re-inhale and do that a few times in a row. By giving an extra pass you can absorb more molecules, or at least that's the impression it gives... But since you are diluting it more every time, it also sounds normal than there's less visible exhale in the end.

For me it's clear that the big rush you get by taking a giant rip, exactly like what you get with a bong, is due to oxygenation/ventilation, for the simple reason that there is not a single drug that takes less than 5 to 10 minutes to reach your brain and start acting once it entered your blood stream. This is the case for snorted hard drugs like C and K (well obviously in the C case you feel a numbing immediatly due to the local anaesthesic effect, whereas with K which is a global anaesthesic the time between the intake and the onset is even clearer)

When I vape, there's always a 5 to 10 minutes delay before the onset. Now if you compare that to combustion (and in fact most vape newbies seem to crave for that effect they feel is missing) where you get a very quick "punch in your face" effect... well, we know this effect is not part of the THC experience and is due to the "carcinogen campfire" and it's not "natural" at all...
 
lwien

lwien

Well-Known Member
stickstones said:
This is getting me to thing that the cloudier high temp hits with ground bud are thicker mostly due to more particulate being released into the vapor.
Click to expand...

What about very cloudy low to medium temp hits? Not all vapes can do this but some can like the LSV.

Also, are there particulates after being filtered through water?

You guys know my take on this. No need to repeat.
 
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GuyLeDuche

GuyLeDuche

^ "Eat a bag of Dick's!"
Solomon said:
I think there is a limit to how much you can absorb in a single lung-full, and if you go past that limit, you're just throwing away vapor. So...I think that slowly taking in many hits over 5-10 mins assures that every hit can be fully absorbed every time giving you the highest quantity of meds.
Click to expand...

Yea it's my understanding that the oxygen in your lungs is the carrier for the THC to absorb into your lung walls to be delivered to the bloodstream? So you are limited by both the amount of oxygen in your lungs, as well as the surface area available. This comes into play in the whole "cough to get off" debate, as the lung walls are stretched during coughs, exposing fresh surface area.
Following this logic, I like to take a medium size hit leaving room for a small fresh air inhale 5sec after hit.
 
lwien

lwien

Well-Known Member
GuyLeDuche said:
Yea it's my understanding that the oxygen in your lungs is the carrier for the THC to absorb into your lung walls to be delivered to the bloodstream? So you are limited by both the amount of oxygen in your lungs, as well as the surface area available. This comes into play in the whole "cough to get off" debate, as the lung walls are stretched during coughs, exposing fresh surface area.
Click to expand...

That's why I like to re-breath. Take a massive hit. Hold for 5 seconds. Exhale a bit of cloud. Inhale more air. Hold for a few seconds. Exhale a little bit. Inhale again. Rinse and repeat about 4 times.
 
RUDE BOY

RUDE BOY

Space is the Place
If i were so concerned about getting every active cannabinoid out of my herb i'd just make edibles. When I take a hit i just inhale hold it in a second or two or five then exhale ... spending time counting seconds kills the mellow time while getting medicated imo.

Clouds counterproductive? NO. not if I Feel like blowing clouds, in that case Not Blowing Clouds is counterproductive to enjoyment.

Trying to be stealth? then Yes clouds are counterproductive.

I say It Just all depends on the situation and it's all better then smoking so ... Vape up and Enjoy.

:2c: ... :peace:
 
stickstones

stickstones

Vapor concierge
lwien said:
What about very cloudy low to medium temp hits? Not all vapes can do this but some can like the LSV.

Also, are there particulates after being filtered through water?

You guys know my take on this. No need to repeat.
Click to expand...

I'm starting to think that any load with a grind is going to introduce more particulates into the vapor and therefore produce more clouds and irritation, regardless of the temp. I also think this happens automatically when you get to the higher temps, whether you grind or not. So for someone like me who likes the high temp effects, the load is already getting scorched and probably coming apart some and clouding up the hits. I assume you are grinding to get those low temp clouds, yes?

The water helps with the particulates, but doesn't eliminate them. You know I run everything through water and when I don't, I notice more coughing and phlegm the next day. But I still get some phlegm the next morning, so I think it is not eliminating everything.

I'm finally testing out the herbalaire, even though it has been out longer than I have been vaping, and it's challenging my perceptions about vaporizing. It doesn't go above 400F and doesn't need grinding, yet seems to get full extraction. I have never used a vape that works like this one does with the pump. I'm finding that not grinding and using lower temps is providing much smoother hits than I am used to, and the effect is still there. Next I'm going to have to use these limitations with other vapes and see how they perform.
 
DDave

DDave

Vape Wizard
Accessory Maker
lwien said:
Yes. I always grind.
Click to expand...
Substituting this picture for another, my day is now shot! Thanks @lwien :rockon:

Dancer12.gif


:cheers:

Edit: If I moved like this, I'd break something... ;)
 
ataxian

ataxian

PALE BLUE DOT
sickmanfraud said:
Guys and Gals.

I have a question that I would like to ask as many folks as possible....

Has anyone done any studies on the cannabinoid content of exhaled vapor compared to inhaled vapor??

Is it possible that cloud chasing wastes more medicine than sipping??
Click to expand...
There are two questions!
I'll have to do a goggle search on the first one?
The 2nd question: I'll answer by saying I'm a sipper!
I get very well medicated from a light blue vapor!
My SOLO is not the best vaporizer for cloud chasing however at level 4 my vapor is blue.
For a different kind of medication a LOTUS or HERB IRON does the trick!
The NANO I use like à high powered SOLO!
 
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