Anyone else study fortune telling techniques?

[Jeremy Driscoll]

I am studying it. And man is it complicating. I have done some research, and I was wondering if anyone had any expertise they could add to my notes. Or if anyone else here found it as interesting as I do, it could be a great way to let loose about it.

Personally speaking, I picked I-ching because I wanted a system that was specific in answering yes or no questions for any question, and a system that was not vague, and that could give specific dates right down to the hour, (four pillars), and I found a few resources that addresses such needs.

But just because I was unable to find a system besides I-ching for the non gifted that gets specific and even gives dates, does not mean that the system does not exist, so if anyone has any knowledge please correct me.

 

[pigfoot]

Hmm, well, we live in an interactive universe. Lots of ways to "get advice" from it.
As far as dates and times, my experience has been "not so much "
I also like the Runes, and Tarot, I find they all have a slightly different perspective,
but will lead you to the same thing.

 

[Jeremy Driscoll]

But nothing time based? It seems like after all my searching ICHING is the only one that gives time and dates, right down to the 120 minutes of a chinese hour.

 

[pigfoot]

Well, if that works for you, cool. I've never tried to get time predictions. My aim has been on getting information I can use. These oracles seem to have a focus on delivering advice to help one remember their connection to the divine. Following that path always makes my life better. Asking for "things" and how to get them has been of no help to me.

 

[Caligula]

http://m.xojane.com/it-happened-to-me/it-happened-to-me-i-was-a-telephone-psychic-for-miss-cleo

Seems legit?

Heh, anyone remember those commercials?

Guess she didn't see herself going to prison for fraud in those tarot readings. LOL.

 

[lwien]

Yup. One has to ask oneself, if you can truly read the future, what in the hell are you doing trying to make some coin in reading the futures of others. Hell, if I could do that and getting rich was one of my priorities, I sure as hell could find out enough just about my future and the future in general to keep myself busy making bazillions without having to fuck with anyone elses palms or the bumps on their heads.

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

If you get good.. than maybe you can predict when all the postponed vapor projects will be completed and shiped out ,.. Nice to have you on FC !

 

[Caligula]

Yup. One has to ask oneself, if you can truly read the future, what in the hell are you doing trying to make some coin in reading the futures of others. Hell, if I could do that and getting rich was one of my priorities, I sure as hell could find out enough just about my future and the future in general to keep myself busy making bazillions without having to fuck with anyone elses palms or the bumps on their heads.

Dude, Phrenology is a completely legitimate science!

Also this guy was able to ride that money train for quite a while.

 

[syrupy]

I've thrown my share of i-ching sticks. Can be a helpful tool, but it's up to a lot of interpretation. It basically describes dynamic change. So for any situation, it can map sticking points and paths through them. Not so good with yes or no questions as I recall. The ability to predict future dynamics of a situation is not so much the goal as understanding inter-relations.

 

[djonkoman]

I don't believe in supernatural stuff so fortunetelling falls under that umbrella too, but tarot was a fun game on a highschooltrip once. especially since one of my friends got 'damnation'(or something lkike that) as general/main theme, while I got something like 'prosperity'. all short-term predictions I got didn't come true though, as expected.

 

[grokit]

1. become a "psychic"
2. use new powers to find a crystal ball
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading

 

[pigfoot]

Hmmm, OP asked a reasonable question, not really cool to come in and post that you think this stuff is all crap IMHO.

 

[Caligula]

Hmmm, OP asked a reasonable question, not really cool to come in and post that you think this stuff is all crap IMHO.

...if anyone else here found it as interesting as I do, it could be a great way to let loose about it.

I find all sorts of stuff interesting, including this topic. Perhaps I'm reading too much into what hes saying (terrible pun intended)?

 

[pigfoot]

It's like if someone is asking for advice on getting thicker hits with vape "X" and someone posts "vape X sucks". It's not adding anything useful to the thread.

 

[herbivore21]

@grokit Is that a Mexican poncho or a Seers poncho? Hmmm, no fooling!?

Also cheers for the video, I love Frank Zappa!

Pigfoot, I get what you are saying, but this is a different context. In a vape thread, if someone just chimed in with vape x sucks, they would not be providing anything to the discussion. The statement is vacuous because it has no explanation of what is meant by sucks, or why it is considered to suck! It is literally empty talk.

Whereas, when a general discussion thread is made about topics which are not a stated theme of the message board (although perhaps one that might come up in general discussions anywhere), I think it is fair to respectfully submit that you do not consider the concept in discussion valid. Especially given the amount of poor trustworthy people who get swindled by the many charlatans involved in providing these kinds of services.

Please understand I have no problem with fortune telling techniques in and of themselves. I think it is as valid a human expression as plenty of other common forms of human expression. However, I do think it is reasonable to expect that in the context of a general discussion forum with a thread about fortune telling, it is fair to expect that people may reply to any aspect of the topic in question. That's what happens in a large, open forum like this

I do think we need to remain respectful if we disagree with one another here, but I would not go so far as to say we cannot disagree!

 

[grokit]

What I posted was the simplest path to becoming a pfp,
or a psychic-for-profit

While it was on the cynical side,
I sincerely think it could be useful to the op,
or anybody else with this type of aspiration,
perhaps a budding faith healer.

 

[Jeremy Driscoll]

Another reason I chose I-ching is because one of the things I hate about Ms. Cleo and what seems to be the main complaint about fortune telling is that it is to vague. If it is a vague form of telling then I want no part in it. If it does not give yes or no answers as the tosser wants then I want no part.

With Iching, I can get, yes or no, time, direction, boy or girl, good or bad, win or lose, live or die, exact hour year month and date that a stock should go, and when it goes up or down or if there is any change at all, And so on. So ms. cleo is not a legit concern, nor is that south park guy. If your going to say that fortune telling has no merit, at least use examples of fortune telling that are capable of having some merit such as specific details, if it is not a specific system like I am referring to then it has no place in fortune telling period imho, and it should not be used as a judgment for the types of fortunes telling that are not about just using some sales pitch,. I hate FTelling that use the sales pitch to replace specific answers that the question/tosser wanted. I am learning from a book, that the author posted online for free for the last decade or so, so there is no profit for the author as for as they are concerned. I don't expect agreement. If someone does not agree with a or any fortune telling technique then that is fine.

If Iching is a fraud then at least it is a system that lets itself get caught as a fraud from the VERY FIRST QUESTION by asking a question on time and seeing if it happened or not. Although it could not be the iching it could be argued that it was the reader or the tosser that messed up. But at the very VERY LEAST iching gives you specific ness that at least does not put it in the same league as ms. cleo and the other so obvious from the get go frauds.

I guess what I'm. Trying to say is that using such obvious frauds who use superstition powers and who do not give specific dates and specific answers, (Notice I said WHO do NOT) and at the same time to use them as a type of example is unfair and unworthy. Iching is not free from critique, and it can be called the biggest fraud system in the world and I will not be upset, but to make the connection of a system like iching that is based on true examples of cycles in nature and in the general basis of all life, with the type of people who make millions off of people without using any type of complicated and well thought out system like iching is and not to mention a system that gives such exact detailed answers is unfair, sure I can not prove that iching is in any way working, but I at least know that the author makes nothing from people going online and getting the book for free for over a decade and how he says that it is a system of math and that like that anyone can do it and therefore the superstition of what someone says that is being used is under investigation therefore by ANYONE WHO wants to do so. With superstition people can not individually investigate it and practice the system themselves unless they have some imaginative super power connection to the underworld that most people do not have. So theres no comparison.

 

[Caligula]

That may have been an unfair comparison earlier. Ill grant you that and i'm sorry.

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/whats_wrong_with_the_i_ching_ambiguity_obscurity_and_synchronicity/

 

[Jeremy Driscoll]

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/whats_wrong_with_the_i_ching_ambiguity_obscurity_and_synchronicity/

After clicking on the link I stopped reading after I saw the part about the commentary as the Iching they were talking about. Since the Iching I am talking about is different and has no commentary. If you have a link that has to do with a skeptics view of my kind of Iching then please do share that one however.

Also on the page you provided it says: "Moreover, there’s no known scientific mechanism (synchronicity included) by which the I Ching can divine our fortunes, give advice for the future, or explain our situations."

I thought that the connection of Iching to life or at least life as we understand and know it (blue print wise anyways) was already shown in the similarity of RNA and DNA or was I misinformed?

 

[Caligula]

So you stopped reading after the first sentence and completely dismissed everything in its entirety because your Iching is "different"?

You dont think that there might be some similarities there worth investigating since you're studying this practice?

Interesting.

Since I clearly do not know, would you care to enlighten me as to how none of this applies to your specific discipline?

 

[Jeremy Driscoll]

Well I went back after making my post and reread everything I had before and I even finished reading what I reread and then decided to continue reading and I even read all the way to the end of the page, so you are incorrect.

And I did all this before reading your post that was after mine. So even though I said I stopped reading it, I never said that I would not finish reading it later, that was an assumption you seem to be implying on your own behalf. Making your own conclusions, which are wrong. (I never completely dismissed anything ever).

So you stopped reading after the first sentence and completely dismissed everything in its entirety because your Iching is "different"?

You dont think that there might be some similarities there worth investigating since you're studying this practice?

Interesting.

Since I clearly do not know, would you care to enlighten me as to how none of this applies to your specific discipline?

Well I never said NONE of it applied just the part where there was any commentary. My practice has no commentary, it is wen wang gua so there it is just reading the hexagram after applying a set of laws, like bound and strike, or empty dates, or hiders, and empty ect. If there is commentary then I will not dismiss it I guess as long as it tells yes or no answers to any question, can tell me if someone is alive or dead, can tell me things down to the exact chinese hour and the year and the other details, and can even tell color or direction if I wanted like north east south and west or northeast and you get the idea. To compare one form of iching that is like a fortune cookie or a horoscope with generalized answers that are not exactly what the questioner wanted to know should not even be considered because it is not even a fortune telling system. People use fortune telling for answers to questions. What good is a system that does not give you exactly the type of answer that is to the exact question?

 

[Caligula]

I think thats getting a bit off track... so lets take presumptions out of the equation.

So you stopped reading after the first sentence and completely dismissed everything in its entirety because your Iching is "different"?

You dont think that there might be some similarities there worth investigating since you're studying this practice?

Interesting.

Since I clearly do not know, would you care to enlighten me as to how none of this applies to your specific discipline?

Maybe we can now focus on the topic at hand? A good start would be to educate me as to how your version of I-ching differs enough to make that article irrelevant.

Also, Im not ignoring the added text you edited in earlier... i'm just not sure what you're trying to get at.

 

[Jeremy Driscoll]

My version is Wen wang gua in the strictest sense, not generalized vague answers that don't really give you specific answers to the question you are asking. A lot of the articles complaint was based largely on the fact that a commentary is interpreted without specific ness. Mine no commentary what so ever.

 

[Caligula]

It would probably be easier to simply reply once rather than retroactively editing paragraphs of text into previous posts. IMO all of those edits muddy and confuse things for others, and it makes it very difficult for me to properly reply.

Anyway, it is interesting that your chosen discipline has no ambiguity in its answers what so ever. I'm assuming (given how old this form for fortune telling is) you have a litany of real world examples showing its accuracy?

Also:

I never said NONE of it applied...

Would you care to share what did apply to your form of I-ching, and your response to its criticisms?

 

[Jeremy Driscoll]

The book I'm reading has 750 real life examples. Or so author stated. If really real I have no way proving.

Only one thing I saw applied to my iching, the reasons that seem to be the articles points of criticism seem to be based around two things. One that the commentary can be applied to any situation and that without the type of specific ness that my iching gives that is bad. Not bad for me.

The second being that iching needs to be proven to be a working system that is based on a science that is accepted as truth. I haven't any way to prove the second thing. For all I know the iching I am studying is total and complete shit. But that is not enough to stop learning in my opinion. I don't know how a tv works but I know how to use it. Same with iching wen wang gua. Although I doubt that every reading is accurate, the only way I will truly know if this iching is my kind of system is by practice. If a year or two go by after practicing daily with majority of readings wrong, then I will stop using it. If all readings are right then I will use it. Just like with the tv, I need to turn it to see if it works. I need to learn and practice iching to see if it works.

But one thing I would never do, is allow cold reading as a practice, a practice that requires someone else interpreting it, a practice that is based completely on the superstition of spirits giving the answer.