Air Path Purity

[Egzoset]

That's a concept which attracted my attention very much since i started reading on this web site.

Many vaporizers come with an intimidating price tag and yet, as potential buyers, we've avtually seen few details relative to how one brand and/or model ensures that its air path remains relatively "pure" compared to others... If i were to put 500 $ on the table i'd insist to be convinced first - twice! Any hint where the thumbnail pictures compilation might be around here?

 

[charliedontsurf]

The volcano does run all of its heat through a medical grade hose directly up to the heating chamber (about the highest grade plastic you'll find outside of firearms and the like) and then into the food-grade bag.

Check out what she looks like with her skirt off : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmx_qoong84 You can really see what a simplistic, robust design it is.

The extreme apparently nukes its internal circuitry with hot air, I'm not smearing them, I just picked up that jist in a few posts and seen it with its top off as well - no hosing. I think Zephyr Ion using similar hosing to volcano, I'd really like to try one.

 

[pakalolo]

The extreme apparently nukes its internal circuitry with hot air...

This is not correct. The air is not heated until it is inside the glass air path and past all circuitry.

 

[Egzoset]

In any case, i may be mistaking but the air intake opening seems to be located under the unit - which means it's sucking dust if any was left on the working surface... The other point of interest i notice, but that doesn't have anything to do with air, would be the bi-metal thermostat's hystereris: i hate that in electric house heating already, one more would be too much! Luckily, there's the Volcano Digital.

As far as air "purity" goes i much prefer this to the Volcano's complex contraption:


Hippie Dickie's Bud Toaster

And it doesn't cost 500 $ to get it done that way...

 

[hemp;)goofy8cheerio]

so put 3m filtret its like a dryer sheet yet a filter?under so air is filtered b4 going thru air intake

 

[charliedontsurf]

All volcanos produced after a certain date very early in the production have a replaceable air filter in the bottom which the original alpha lacked. I replaced my filter after probably 2 or 4 years of service in mine and another's home, and it looked virtually identical to the new one. A non issue, then?

 

[Egzoset]

Hummm... I must confess i did capture a few pictures this week of the heating element in similar products anyway and it didn't seem to me like most manufacturers are proud enough of their designs to show them off themselves, generally speaking. I'm a lot more demanding than that when i reach the 500 $ range...



Are there other "oven" based devices around where the air path has been made absolutely the shortest possible?

In addition, why not have them all compared on this basis?...

At least there are some which have been relatively well documented graphically speaking, like this one:

...and this one:

Also, about high temperature blends such as salvia divinorum, what else is there other than a heat gun designed for paint stripping?

...

:/

 

[B.]

I believe the cloud will be great for this aspect.

 

[stinkmeaner]

I will put my two cents in and say to any hypochondriac thinking medical grade silicone or vinyl is bad, think about people hooked up to breathing machines, life support, oxygen, and any other device in the hospital with tubing. When I see these internet hypochondriacs coming on here down-talking medical grade silicone tubing I can't keep myself from laughing, the thought that these people think they know more than doctors is really funny.

Sure the all glass design is great if it works for your design, but you can't assume it is the only way to go.

As for filters, unless you are walking around all day with some kind of breathing mask you shouldn't really need them unless your house that your vaporizing in needs them and if that was the case, then you would be much better off getting yourself a couple air purifiers instead anyway.

 

[Egzoset]

In comparison to the Da Buddah Vaporizer or the more affordable Bud Toaster it's evident some products rely on materials while others don't. Past the 100 $ range i, as a consumer, want to know what these materials are and why they were thought to be necessary. Most certainly, any company which would answer my questions with terms like "hypocondriac" and expect me to give them 500 $ in a leap of faith has some major communication problem with me. If the design makes sense lets not keep it secret, let it plead in favor of the product in the eye of a potential client, on the contrary! In other words, teflon, vinyl, silicone, ceramic and many other materials in themselves can play an important role in quality but this depends on how they are being used. Any company pretending my questions are not legitimate before we've even started to talk is not going to retain my attention. In short, i think the winer attitude to have here is to inform & educate.

Additionally, i'm no doctor and yet i'm certain there are materials which don't behave the same as temperature rises from 23C to 300C or even beyond, especially when material interactions are possible... I'm not going to recommend a vaporizer to someone i love unless i'm reasonably reassured about health safety.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

I will put my two cents in and say to any hypochondriac thinking medical grade silicone or vinyl is bad, think about people hooked up to breathing machines, life support, oxygen, and any other device in the hospital with tubing. When I see these internet hypochondriacs coming on here down-talking medical grade silicone tubing I can't keep myself from laughing, the thought that these people think they know more than doctors is really funny.

and yet, there is a lot of literature like this:

Spallation and Migration of Silicone from Blood-Pump Tubing in Patients on Hemodialysis
Anthony S.-Y. Leong, M.B., B.S., M.R.C.Path., F.R.C.P.A., F.C.A.P., Alexander P. S. Disney, F.R.A.C.P., and David W. Gove

N Engl J Med 1982; 306:135-140January 21, 1982

Abstract
Spalled particles of silicone were observed in the livers of patients with chronic renal failure treated by hemodialysis. The refractile particles of silicone were associated with various degrees of hepatic inflammation and fibrosis, and granulomatous hepatitis was evident in nine cases. Retrospective examination revealed the material in 18 of 38 liver-biopsy samples from patients on hemodialysis who had clinical hepatic dysfunction. Of 31 autopsies of patients who had undergone hemodialysis, 22 revealed silicone in the liver, and silicone was also present in the spleen in all cases and in the marrow, lungs, and nodes in some. Giant cells containing silicone were also observed in these organs. Silicone was present in patients who had undergone hemodialysis for six weeks to 84 months (mean, 24 months). The identity of the material was confirmed by atomic absorption and by electron microprobe analysis. The silicone was traced to a segment of silicone tubing located in the roller pump of the dialysis machine. (N Engl J Med. 1982; 306:13540.)

So, my question is, what DO the doctors know? It appears there is a lot more to the suitability of a particular material for an application than its melting temperature.

 

[Egzoset]

It is widely accepted that water melts at 0C and evaporates at 100C, yet this doesn't mean it won't evaporate at room temperature at all... Perhaps i like this kind of air path much better than those with silicone, whatever:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqRf14hTnII

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToAgDpbA29c

The VripTech VripMaster Vaporization Heat Wand v3 still seems expensive to me considering it's not much more than a modified (glorified) soldering tool but i suppose that's because the customer base is relatively limited - not to mention the cost of glass crafting and possibly that of a high-quality heating element.

By the way, did i tell you i loved your Bud Toaster thread, Hippie Dickie?!

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Thank-you ... it's still a work in progress.

 

[stinkmeaner]

So, my question is, what DO the doctors know? It appears there is a lot more to the suitability of a particular material for an application than its melting temperature.

But the question is, what brand of Silicone did they use? I imagine that like anything, manufacturing will have a major role in quality, if the Silicone is a poorly made brand, it could be porous or worse yet easily degradable.

Another question, what is safe to use if Silicone is not? Surely they can not use glass for most of the applications that call for tubing.

I think it really comes down to the use, and I would go so far to say that air traveling through silicone probably would be safer than any liquid traveling though, liquid would create more friction on the inner tubing walls and air would.

 

[hemp;)goofy8cheerio]

if this air-intake with all glass is safe then silicone may not b, the bud toaster, vapexhale seem to b best all glass & then there's alcohol extract, is a little alc safe or is it better to evaporate it almost all out ?dunno

 

[DevoTheStrange]

another thing you also have consider when looking at tubing is its operating conditions. I know certain grades of the smaller tubes of tygon will degrade over time if they are not used in their proper environment.
So there are other factors that go into it other than melting points. Such as what was the tubing designed to deliver? will it degrade if anything but what it wad designed for goes through it?
Some tubing are designed to have nothing but food grade materials go through it, so what happens if a chemical makes its way in?
all kinds of variables to consider.

 

[stinkmeaner]

So people can focus all they want on the toxicity of all of these building materials, but that one point is never really mentioned and I am willing to bet that vapor is not doing your lungs any favors, it may be better than smoke making it the lesser of two evils. If your goal is 100 % safety then eating your herb might make more sense, all of that gunk in your whips, bowls, and wands is coating the inside of your lungs to an extent.

There are people who have been hooked up to breathing machines and oxygen tanks with silicone tubing for their whole lives 24 hours a day, so think about this: An average human being takes 21,600 breaths per day so if only 20-30 inhaled breaths are from vapor I can guarantee that it is not going to make any difference. The chances of us being in the hospital on oxygen is pretty high so I wonder what people will do if they don't want to use silicone, die? The national average hospital stay is 5 days, so that would be 108,000 breaths so if you were on oxygen that means 108,000 inhales through the tubing and let's assume the average vaporist takes an average of 30 inhales per day that would mean the 5 days on oxygen would equal to 3,600 days of vaporizing, almost 10 years worth.

Just like DevoTheStrange said, materials have to be used in the appropriate way and Storz & Bickel proved that their application is safe since they are one of the only companies that tested their air quality, the Volcano uses silicone tubing, even goes through aluminum and plastics, but the tests came back with no harmful substances. So that proof is good enough for me that in that case the silicone tubing does not contaminate the air quality. That doesn't mean I would use it inside the heating chamber but to use it as a inlet air path has been proven to be fine.

There are thousands of little articles like the one above which determine nearly everything in our lives is toxic in one form or another, I bet if you dig deep enough articles might exist where borosilicate glass has found to be bad for you in some way, there are even articles that state hazards of lamp working because the fumes from working with hot glass can be harmful health.

 

[toxicc]

I will put my two cents in and say to any hypochondriac thinking medical grade silicone or vinyl is bad, think about people hooked up to breathing machines, life support, oxygen, and any other device in the hospital with tubing. When I see these internet hypochondriacs coming on here down-talking medical grade silicone tubing I can't keep myself from laughing, the thought that these people think they know more than doctors is really funny.

We can compare that to baby bottles. It was "safe" for decades, but it is now well known that BPA leaches from the plastic to the milk, and creates hormone imbalances when injested. There is a lot of "food safe" products that are in fact toxic, like aspartame wich is proven to cause cancer. In a world where corruption and money reign, it is legitimate to question safety of some products and to research ourselves. The FDA is not there to protect us.

Neuroscientist, Dr. John Olney is the world expert on the neurological effects of aspartic and glutamic acids. His research shows that aspartic acid [one of the breakdown products of aspartame] caused holes in the brains of lab animals. Dr. Olney and ACSN co-founder,James Turner, Esq. were the original 'whistleblowers' on the toxicity of aspartame. He was featured at a Washington press conference to announce his findings of a ten percent increase in the rate of brain tumors since the advent of aspartame.

 

[OO]

for those that care to research the reactivities of the components of these the choice is simple.

nearly all of the vapes commonly mentioned on this site are fine, and i don't think i've ever come across one that would put a more harmful substance in your lungs than combusting.

some potheads just take it a little far.

quit being ignorant, if you're really worried start researching these things for your self on independent websites, not the sales pitch of a vaporizer seller.

 

[Egzoset]

As far as i'm concerned it's reasonable to keep some essential points in mind: potential consumers are justified to ask for details when one brand claims its air path is more "pure" than that of the concurence, for example. In fact, i'd like to see a compilation where one can compare warmup time, air/vapour ratio, glass joint compatibility and robustness, ease of maintenance (cleaning), etc. Having only the price tag is a little too vague for my taste.

 

[Revvy]

There are people who have been hooked up to breathing machines and oxygen tanks with silicone tubing for their whole lives 24 hours a day, so think about this: An average human being takes 21,600 breaths per day so if only 20-30 inhaled breaths are from vapor I can guarantee that it is not going to make any difference. The chances of us being in the hospital on oxygen is pretty high so I wonder what people will do if they don't want to use silicone, die? The national average hospital stay is 5 days, so that would be 108,000 breaths so if you were on oxygen that means 108,000 inhales through the tubing and let's assume the average vaporist takes an average of 30 inhales per day that would mean the 5 days on oxygen would equal to 3,600 days of vaporizing, almost 10 years worth.

Are you really asserting that the safety of a material at ~60-100F(Cold hospital to fevered body temp) is comparable to its safety at temperatures half an order of magnitude higher?

Just like DevoTheStrange said, materials have to be used in the appropriate way and Storz & Bickel proved that their application is safe since they are one of the only companies that tested their air quality, the Volcano uses silicone tubing, even goes through aluminum and plastics, but the tests came back with no harmful substances. So that proof is good enough for me that in that case the silicone tubing does not contaminate the air quality. That doesn't mean I would use it inside the heating chamber but to use it as a inlet air path has been proven to be fine.

I've not seen this test myself and am having trouble finding it online. Where was it published? Who preformed it? Storz & Bickel have a huge financial motivator for favorable results. Unless it was an independent test, I'd be inclined to toss out the results of their testing entirely. Methodology? What was used to test the air quality? You are aware that we do not have a singular test that can declare air to be safe.

Now, I'm not saying that silicone is safe or unsafe for use in vaporizers. Just that you should take a look at your arguments.

Neuroscientist, Dr. John Olney is the world expert on the neurological effects of aspartic and glutamic acids. His research shows that aspartic acid [one of the breakdown products of aspartame] caused holes in the brains of lab animals. Dr. Olney and ACSN co-founder,James Turner, Esq. were the original 'whistleblowers' on the toxicity of aspartame. He was featured at a Washington press conference to announce his findings of a ten percent increase in the rate of brain tumors since the advent of aspartame.

...Aspartic acid is an amino acid produced in many non-mammalian animals and plants. Humanity has been consuming it for centuries. No one has shown that Aspartic acid nor Aspartame itself causes brain damage or is even harmful.

Concern about possible carcinogenic properties of aspartame was originally raised and popularized in the mainstream media by John Olney in 1970s and again in 1996 by suggesting that aspartame may be related to brain tumors. Reviews have found that these concerns were flawed, due to reliance on the ecological fallacy and the purported mechanism of causing tumors being unlikely to actually cause cancer. Multiple independent agencies such as the FDA and National Cancer Institute have reanalyzed multiple studies based on these worries and found no association between aspartame and brain cancer.

 

[hemp;)goofy8cheerio]

aspartamekills.com msgtruth.org in the movie sweet misery on google video about 26-32 minutes into it, neurosurgeon russel blaylock shows holes in brain that msg causes, & says aspartame does the same. 10% brain tumor increase since aspartame may only co-incide with mor emf scatter frum wifi, sattelite, tv radio, dunno Interview with Dr. Russell Blaylock on devastating health effects of MSG, aspartame and excitotoxins."
www.naturalnews.com/020550.html

 

[OO]

i've already done enough research to satisfy myself, but if you're new to the vape world, it may be a good idea to do your own research.

as of now, i'm here to stir the pot.
http://www.adaevidencelibrary.com/topic.cfm?cat=4089

 

[hemp;)goofy8cheerio]

ha the ada receive lots money from jd serle monsanto monsantofilm.com makers of aspartame, the only way it got approved was rumsfeld got reagan to fire old fda chief, then nu fda chief went against his scientific advisory board, approved aspartame then later in the yr quit & went to werk for jd serle

 

[OO]

ha the ada receive lots money from jd serle monsanto monsantofilm.com makers of aspartame, the only way it got approved was rumsfeld got reagan to fire old fda chief, then nu fda chief went against his scientific advisory board, approved aspartame then later in the yr quit & went to werk for jd serle

please if you have credible sources, cite them.