Adjustable power supply for PD/WDZ/ARZ vapes

[Rico420]

Hey whats up FC! I found something really cheap on ebay the other day and decided to take the plunge. I've been looking for something that had an adjustable voltage between 12v and about 18v to be able to find my sweet spot as far as voltage goes. Voltage on these vapes determines the temp.

So i found this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/12-6-VDC-16-VDC-5-AMP-Switching-power-supply-/280429344063

$16 bucks shipped.

Its basically a small 12v power supply that you can adjust between 12.6 and 16v. This is the perfect range in my opinion and i have settled in around 14v. Bear in mind that ambient temp changes can cause variations outside of voltage. there's a small screw potentiometer under the cover.

WARNING: This may/will void your warranty, is not recommended by the Manufacturer for the PD, and could potentially cause a fire if you are not intelligent enough to know not to let experiments, (which this is) go unattended. It is recommended to leave the vaporizer on the 12v 10081 jameco adapter when not vaping, and use the higher voltage ONLY when in use. That way, if anything goes wrong, at least you're home to take care of it before it possibly burns anything. That's how i minimize the risk for this EXPERIMENTAL project. If that's still too much risk for you, you could always not try it.






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[lwien]

Two things.

One, what is an ARZ? Secondly, the PD/MZ's are designed to work within a defined voltage spec. You may be voiding the warranties when operating these vapes at 14v along with possibly shortening the overall life of the vape.

While you may be recommending this Rico, I don't.

 

[Rico420]

I meant the myrtlezap, i just thought it was aromazap for some odd reason.

If i remember correctly, i got the idea hearing about someone else doing so on the forum. I would not just overvolt something unless i knew the implications, and yes, this may void your warranty. But a simple adjustment to get slightly more vapor while not going above 13v is still an improvement. I have no idea as to how this could affect the led with the PD as well, possibly shorten the lifespan.

Bear in mind that other factors affect the temperature besides voltage, and that shows you why this is useful. I live in a highly seasonal place where the ambient temp inside my room is 20 degrees Fahrenheit warmer in the summer, this gives you different final temps from a fixed temp vape at different times of year. Also, like the launch box, you have to hit at a certain speed to get clouds, with a bong this can be tedious, and a hotter vape will allow more air without dropping temps too low. Basically its a convenience thing for me, but as well i never really felt my woodeez got hot enough for a good cbd cbn buzz.

All in all, i appreciate the warning, as i should have made a note about it, but just wasn't thinking. But i still think anyone who is interested in this idea shouldn't be instantly putoff by a fear of ruining your vape. I usually leave my WDZ on the stock adapter when not in a session, and use the extra power when vaping. But have left it on with a higher voltage for days at a time to no detriment.

If i wasn't so lazy i would probably send out an email to the manufacturer of my woodeez, to determine what if any possible affects there could be to the vape. I prob will eventually, and if you're really concerned about it i would find out before i tried it.

If you've used a bong with your log style vape you can appreciate what has been done here, since i know i had trouble getting good hits from a bong with my WDZ without overvolting the device. Now im flying in cloud city.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Danger Will Robinson! Danger Will Robinson!

dude, when you run a vaporizer, you are running an appliance that gets hotter than an oven cooking a thanksgiving dinner. And when you run it out of spec, who knows how hot it is getting.

Or, rather, do you know how hot it is getting? You might think about getting a $10 BBQ thermometer so you can check the temp to be sure you don't burn down your crib.

 

[Purple-Days]

Absolutely not for a Purple-Days. Other manufacturers can make any suggestions they want, we only supply one power supply, it is a Jameco #10081, 12 Volt power supply.

 

[Alan]

Rico420 - What is the measured output voltage of the power supply provided with the woodeez?

 

[WatTyler]

dude, when you run a vaporizer, you are running an appliance that gets hotter than an oven cooking a thanksgiving dinner. And when you run it out of spec, who knows how hot it is getting.

I'll add to that- I've said so before on here, but when I first powered up my self assembled log I used a dodgy 12v wall transformer that accepted the car lighter plug- it melted the solder inside my vape, which then dripped out when I tipped the log upside down. It didn't make the vapor taste nice. I tested with a meter and got about 16v out of it, I think. It was a stiff learning experience for me.

Based upon this I personally don't think you've got to over power it that much before the wires around the resistor start getting hot enough to melt the solder (although I might of had messy soldering, although this wouldn't affect the melting point of the solder it might have been slightly further up nearer the resistor possibly, but certainly not by a significant margin).

 

[Rico420]

Warnings have already been made, and in all fairness i should have listed them in the original post, but like i said just wasn't thinking. I will edit my first post to make this more apparent/visible. If you do not wish to try then don't.

Thank you to Tom for providing useful information as to the PD,

I have considered investing in an ir thermometer for other projects, and i could use it to fine tune the vape, but bear in mind that when you hit it it cools down like a launchbox. Well not exactly, but i get reduced vapor after a few drags. Basically i feel that my WDZ IS TOO COLD. It produces vapor, but you really have to sip it like a launch box. I landed on 13.5v, and now my abv is actually brown how i like it.

I would like to hear from and of the manufacturers of the log style vape as to how they calibrate the temp. I know that different woods provide slightly hotter or cooler units, when assembled, is there any calibration as to temp? If they all use the same power supplies then you have a range of temps depending on wood type, the individual characteristics of that wood vs another piece of the same wood, and atmospheric and temp variations by region.

As far as i know, my wdz adapter was 12v. Same jameco adapter 10081 as the PD. It broke, and that's what led to the power supply quest.

I understand that this is technically dangerous, and you can possibly burn your house down if you leave it on a high voltage UNATTENDED. I don't advise doing that, and really i have settled in at 13.5v. I'm not talking about a huge temp difference, just making it MORE USABLE FOR MY PREFERENCES. That is the purpose of this project in my opinion, allowing one to CHOOSE the temp and voltage that works best for them, i don't recommend and won't go over 15v.

If you have any NEW useful info to add, cool and thanks in advance. IF you decide to post to try to scare people off from doing this, then go ahead, but its not really helpful and safety issues have already been noted. If you have something new to say about safety, that's most welcome as well, but know that i NEVER advocated or recommended trying this yourself. I just posted it so other people could chime in about it (thanks), and possibly try it themselves if they accept the "possible" risks. Just because no-one has ever posted about overvolting their log vape, dosent mean its never happened or that its too dangerous/risky to attempt.

Once again, thanks to TOM and WatTyler for the most useful replys yet.

 

[Purple-Days]

Thanks for adding the warnings Rico.

Several factors control temperature in a typical log vape (all) using the same 25J20RE resistor.

First is resistor tolerance... These are rated at +/- 5%. In PD Land we have a <2% tolerance limit. Any resistor testing at 2% or greater (+/-) from the 20 Ohm resistance goes in the garbage, and a few do, this has been our standard since day one and is mentioned very early in the PD thread.

Second would be Voltage, again we have a tolerance and test every power supply. They (Jameco #10081) can vary a bit but are very consistent.

So, there are two variables to start. Both of which the PD tries to minimize with bench testing every item. We always have.

Next is wood density. The wood acts as an insulator to hold heat in the vicinity of the heat exchanger. Denser woods have lower R-value and do not insulate as well and well have a lower operating temperature. Obviously body diameter is another R-value factor.

Wood can vary from piece to piece within a species. So the following is a generalization. Cherry and Walnut are pretty similar in density and operating temps. Myrtle a bit denser wood will run a couple of degrees cooler and denser woods will run cooler than that.

Between the three log vapes there is also a difference in heat exchanger construction. Of course I looked at the concept (Eterra/ circa 1978) and thought a heat exchanger should be complex like a radiator (since that's what it is), so we have 5 heat sinks and 72 black radiating fins, rather than a single (simple) cylindrical heat sink. So performance (heat transferred to the moving air) is going to be a bit different.

An often overlooked variable is altitude (atmospheric pressure), which affects boiling points (since you mention regional variables).

 

[Rico420]

WOW! Thats a lot of good into tom, thanks.

I live at 4500 elevation, so that part about atmospheric pressure is helpful. Would living at a higher elevation cause higher boiling points due to less pressure?

So as far as the electronics go inside the units, its basically just a 25j20re and thats it? I've seem pics of a toasty top heat element that supposedly is almost the same as the other log types, and its just a ceramic resistor. Would be cool to confirm, bec if i do end up burning up the resistor, it could be replaced for a few bucks.

I looked up the Data sheet for the 25j20re, and it looks like the max voltage for that resistor is 720v
Since its a 10w resistor, i assume that means the current would be very low.

Also, it mentions derating of the resistor starting at 0% @ 0C and going to 100% at 350C. I did not understand this at first, but then found this:

Excerpt from: http://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedia/resistormath.cfm

"Power derating

Power rating of a resistor specifies the most power that a resistor can dissipate up to a maximum temperature, which will not damage the resistor. Power rating usually implies that a maximum hot-spot temperature must not be reached, surpassing the limit may result in permanent damage

Power rating specifies two temperatures; the first is the temperature up to which the maximum power rating applies, the second temperature is where the rating must be derated to zero dissipation, in between the rating derated linearly with temperature. Two things can be inferred from these ratings: the maximum storage temperature is equal to the derated temperature. Also, the slope of the derating can be used to calculate an equivalent thermal resistance in degrees C per watt. The difference between the no-load and maximum full load temperature is less than or equal to the temperature rise at full load."

Does this mean that there's a point where the 25j20re will be damaged by heat/wattage dissipation? IE, a certain wattage of power running through the resistor heating it up to a certain temp and damaging it as what is described above?

If so how would you go about calculating that?

any help is appreciated.

 

[Purple-Days]

Yes, the Ohmite 25J20R has been at the core of this style vape since 1978. When we came along we wanted 100% RoHS compliant parts, in our product, so we choose the 25J20RE.

This is a 5 Watt resistor. And it is being driven at about 7.2 Watts by a 12 Volt source. So it is already being a bit overloaded, to produce heat, though not drastically so.

From Wikipedia: "Water boils at approximately 100 C (212 F) at standard atmospheric pressure. The boiling point is the temperature at which the vapor pressure is equal to the atmospheric pressure around the water.[10] Because of this, the boiling point of water is decreased in lower pressure and raised at higher pressure. This is why baking at elevations more than 3,500 ft (1,100 m) above sea level requires adjustments to recipes.[11] A rough approximation of elevation can be obtained by measuring the temperature at which water boils; in the mid-19th century, this method was used by explorers."

 

[Rico420]

Cool, so it looks like i have not put too much stress on the resistor by overvolting it slightly more than stock.

Question, would using a higher amperage power supply affect anything? I know that I'm putting 6a 13.5v through it now, does that really mean I'm putting 80w through my WDZ?!

Thanks for all the help-

 

[Purple-Days]

No the device (any device) uses what it uses. The power supply you are using can supply up to 6 Amps. You can sorta think of this like a fuse or breaker (though it is not). A 20 amp circuit will power a tiny night light or a big honking power saw. It will supply up to 20 Amps.

 

[vap999]

I've never understood all the problems users and even manufacturers have with making log-style (~12 volt, hand-held, convection) vaporizers temperature adjustable. Perhaps, there is a middle ground that everyone, even manufacturers, can accept. What I propose is useful for those wanting slightly higher temperatures; any lower temperatures; or just wanting the option of being able to set their temperature wherever they want (within the acceptable operating range of their unit).

Why not use a slightly higher voltage power source, but still less than car voltage (<14 volts; which seems to be acceptable with most or even all of the log vaporizers), say 13 or 13.5 volts, combined with a low-voltage (12-14 volts, e.g., car/truck/RV/boat) solid-state dimmer switch, costing as little as $10, which allows you to adjust the power downwards. You can use such dimmers with 1) your current 12 volt power supply if you want to run cooler than normal (surely, acceptable to all manufacturers) or 2) with a slightly higher, e.g., 13-14 volt, power supply which you can modulate down with the dimmer switch to your own desired hotter than 12 volt-supply temperature. If nothing else, a dimmer should be useful for those having a problem with their vaporizer running too hot in their car/RV/boat -- just use this to adjust down the power.

For example, see the "12 Volt Universal LED Dimmers" at http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/index.cgi?action=DispPage&Page2Disp=/hobby.htm see the "12 Volt Universal LED Dimmers." Check out the model for $9.95 at http://www.superbrightleds.com/pdfs/LDP-2A.pdf. You just plug this in between your power supply and vaporizer (presuming that both have the fairly standard 2.5 mm/type M connectors). I have been using the LDP-2A, costing only $9.95, continuously (24 x 7) for well over a year with a DIY log-style vaporizer. It works with excellent reproducibility (measured with a digital thermometer and multimeter).

For ~$15 with postage and presuming you use a ?12 volt power supply that without any down-modulation is ACCEPTABLE BY THE MANUFACTURER for your model vaporizer, this option appears to deserve further consideration and testing by FC members. Perhaps, manufacturers can comment about this for their units. If nothing else, those manufacturers themselves selling >12 volt, e.g., 13.5 volt, adapters might consider bundling-in dimmer switches.

For those familiar with electricity: These dimmers linearly limit from 0%-100% the current (amps) flowing while the voltage remains constant, e.g,. if a vaporizer supplied 13 volts naturally draws .55 amp, with a multimeter you can watch the dimmer linearly vary amps from 0-.55 while voltage remains constant. This is unlike most variable power supplies, which vary voltage while current/amps remains constant. Note, the specs for these dimmers state 12 volts DC, but I spoke with a knowledgeable person with the company who stated that of course what really matters is the power [remember Ohm's Law; power (watts) = volts x amps] in the circuit, and of course these dimmers are made to be used with ~14 volt car/truck/RV/boat electrical systems. Even running with a 14 volt power supply, none of the log-style vaporizers draw enough current (amps) to be a concern for stressing these dimmer switches (with the <$10 model having a 24 watt capacity, e.g., upper limits of 12V x 2A or 14V x 1.7A).

 

[lwien]

^^ On the other hand, if one wants to vary the temp on a vape, why not just get a variable temp vape to begin with?

 

[vap999]

^^ On the other hand, if one wants to vary the temp on a vape, why not just get a variable temp vape to begin with?

On the other hand, why buy another vaporizer when you can vey simply and inexpensively make the vaporizer you have better? Shouldn't log vape owners who want to be able to fully adjust their temperatures (i.e., power supply) throughout the full range allowed by their manufacturers? And remember, we are probably only talking about at perhaps at most 5-10?F variations in temperatures.

Otherwise, I presume that variable temperature low-power (12-14 volt) vaporizers use much these same dimmer switches.

 

[Rico420]

vap999-

cool to see others interested in adding more utility to their log style vapes. I can see how people like them how they are though. they're pretty indestructible physically, and the only real weakness i see with a volt mod is that like previously mentioned by wattyler. Thats that the solder could melt at hotter temps, also it could have an affect on the wood. The resistor im not too worried about, we seem to have a saftey zone, as long as we don't push it too far. And if it does go, im confident i could replace it myself, and possibly do an upgrade to prevent future issues if need be.

thats a really good idea using a dimmer switch and a higher voltage power supply. I thought about it too, while looking for the power supply i found. The only issue i see is that, LED's, dim by reducing current. So basically a dimmer for a LED would not be suitable in this case. I wonder how and why a led dimmer works for you, it puzzles me. I believe you though. However, i'm sure there's some good potentiometers out there you could use. Assuming you get one that has the range of resistance you need, it would be a good solution.

Hell, if you wanted to get crafty, you could mod a small dimmer/potentiometer into the body of your log vape and wire it directly into the circuit. Would require some wood work, but would be well worth the time and effort imo. Just plug a suitable power supply in, and choose your temp via a knob or dial directly on the body of your MZ/PD/WDZ. That would be that beez mofo kneez as far as vap mods go.

Definitely something i will think about in the future, as the small screw potentiometer one on the board of my variable supply is far from elegant. And it offers no visible indication of temp/voltage due to its tight spread and it being so damn small. Would love a knob with notches of my fav temps.

 

[Rico420]

What about a rheostat such as this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/25-OHM-25W-Rheo...409?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb7d401e9

Lots of other options available if this is unsuitable, just don't have the math/basic electronic theory skills to know how to calculate needed ohm/wattage values for this circuit.

Would also be VERY cool to find one that is ROHS.

Anyone have suggestions comments?

Idea is to either wire this in between the supply / heating element. either internally via wood modding or externally, prob in a small proj. box.

 

[los]

interesting! is your log vape still as efficient or close to how efficient it was at 12v?

please keep updated

 

[Rico420]

My WDZ worked at 12v, it just did not get cloudy hits, and my abv was not brown enough for me. I feel like if you add a little heat, you get all the cbd's + higher boiling cannabinoids out. Also, you can take quicker larger hits since the air does not cool as much with large rips, causing you to have to wait a few secs. for it to heat up to perfect temp.

efficiency? Well, i would say its more efficient, but thats just me and i usually try to get all there is out of my abv so i dont have to qwiso or qwacetone later. I don't think it gets hot enought to destroy any active chemicals, but i also have not measured the temps i achieve with more voltage.

 

[cisco]

I just happened upon this thread after seeing a power adapter question on the UD thread. Log powering has intrigued me as well, first looking to go portable with a battery pack and also interested in goosing the heat a bit for a better experience with various water tools.

The Jameco 10081 12v AC 1000ma unregulated power adapter actually delivers 13.2v to the Ohmite 25J20RE resistor.

After a bit of disappointment with the PD performance using a 13.2v battery pack, which should have provided more oomph than the "12v" power adapter, I ran a semi-destructive test on the Jameco while actually powering my PD. Using a Fluke meter with nice pointy probes, poked thru the wire insulation and got a 13.25v reading. With no load the Jameco puts out 15v and with a 1a load, it will put out 12v. The issue with the battery pack was that it actually rapidly drops to 12.5-12.7v output. So the batts were delivering about 0.5v less than the Jameco and, based on a temperature study done by Alan at TT, that 0.5v translates to about 10 F lower operating temp.

 

[Puget]

Thanks for the info, cisco. Now I don't feel like I'm abusing my PD by running it on a fixed 13.8 VDC regulated bench power supply. My favorite setup is with a 40cm bong; completely consumes the stem load in one hit. There is no burnt popcorn taste.

I tried the Jameco (nominal) 13.5 VAC 5000 mA unregulated transformer and it's too much--charred about 12% of the herb in a stem.

 

[cisco]

Thanks for sharing your experience Puget. That 13.5 VAC 5000mA unit was likely delivering close to 15VAC to the PD and yielding about a 40F higher operating temp.

Do you leave your PD on the 13.8 VDC ps 24/7?

 

[Puget]

Yeah, when I have herb the PD is always plugged into the power supply (which conveniently has an automotive outlet). I miss the sweet smelling amber resin but I no longer have any reason to save the ABV.

 

[cisco]

Directionally, I'm sure you are hurting the life of the Ohmite resistor, just not sure if it is significant. With a 13.8 voltage, the resistor is putting out about 9.5 watts (V^2/R with R=20) versus the resistor rating of 5 watts. Of course, PD's and Zap's have been running for years in overload at 8.8 watts. Even the logs shipping with 12 vdc regulated power are overloaded at 7.2 watts. The resistor overload rating is 5 seconds at 25 watts; presumably at 5.1 seconds, it fails and bursts into flames. In any event, clearly a highly non-linear voltage/wattage/failure time relationship. Actually, running in overload is apparently required for these resistors to work for vaporizing. I asked one of the log manufacturers why they did not use a resistor rated for a higher wattage and was advised they really needed to be in overload to work at all.

A whole 'nother issue is actually causing the log wood to combust. I've seen comments regarding disassembled logs showing wood charring.

I'm a bit fired up to acquire a variable power supply so I can park the log at 12-13 volts and just juice the voltage to your 13.8 v before ripping a stem or two through the BW triple d inline. I gotta think that since some of the logs ship with car adapters, the "safe" temporary operating voltage is 14-14.5v. Apparently, tattoo PS's are readily available in the sub-$50 range. Anyone have recommendations for a variable PS? UD was reselling them for awhile but no more.