Addiction theory

[Vaked420]

Addiction has always intrigued me. How can some do a variety cocktail of drugs daily and seem unphased by addiction, while others seem to not be able to keep video game use under control has always baffled me.

Through my years of observation and personal trials and tribulations of moderate addiction to originally video games, but then weed for a period, I think I have honed in on a view of addiction that seems to make sense to me for the most part.

Often we see addiction as driven by physical dependency on the substance. For example cocaine use floods the system with dopamine, leading to a euphoric state. But come the next day or following repeated use and the body has adapted to the stimulus and supplies less dopamine than necessary and here comes withdrawal symptoms.

But then this doesn't add up when we factor in addiction to non-drug based things like video games, money(this is a whole other topic for me...) and sugar. People will use these to the point where they damage their health, other relationships and hurt themselves. Now this doesn't mean any of these things are inherently bad. I enjoy the occasional video game, I like spending money and I like ice cream as much as the next person, but it is the personal effect that the use has that I deem addiction. My definition of addiction is using something to the point where you are personally no longer happy with your use, whether you are aware of the effect or not. As an example, my mom is always stressed about money, yet can't seem to control her spending when it is obvious to me what she needs to do.

And other more subtle things can be addicting. I have 2 friends specifically who still combust and smoke spliff bowls. And while they roll spliffs and get their nicotine and weed fill, one friend cannot stand being away from his bong at home without having noticeable effects on his mood, while the other seems completely unphased. If he was unhappy with his use he could stop cold turkey any day and that would be that.

My experience has shown that the source of addiction is mainly mental. We begin to perceive the thing we are addicted to in an unrealistic almost delusional view. When I was a high schooler I gamed maybe 3 or 4 hours a day. At the time my parents would tell me that I should play less and that if I did I would thank them later. I was truly convinced they were wrong. I thought that my gaming was a worthwhIle use of my time, that I would never regret it and mainly that I didn't know what else I would do with my time. Now looking back they were so right. The reason I couldn't find anything else to do was because I never invested time in finding other things to do. All that time I could have been advancing my education or pursuing biking further which is now one of my biggest hobbies. I literally don't play video games ay all anymore(not even Pokémon go haha).

But on the flip side of this argument is that things by themselves are not inherently mentally addicting. The best argument I've heard for this is imagine a group of people who are given heroin every day for 3 weeks, then immediately not given it. You would imagine a large portion of the group would have withdrawal symptoms and find themselves craving more. On the other hand if all of those same people were given morphine for the same 3 weeks in a hospital, we would more than likely expect them to be just fine, if anything just needing a couple days to recover. And therein lies the difference to me. It is the perception that leads to the addiction. The heroin is seen as a drug that makes you feel good, and when removed you are craving that high. But when given medicinally, it helps with pain and you must just recover from its effects. The idea that a substance makes you feel good and that the absence of it is no longer enough is what leads to addiction in my mind. That your body recovering from exposure to the substance is not a recovery, but it is your mind telling you that normalcy is no longer enough after experiencing what life is like with the substance.

I'd like to end my long rambling by saying that I in no way think that anyone in any way is addicted to anything unless they think they are. It doesn't matter if you vape 1 gram every year or if you shoot heroin every day for 10 years. The ability to step back from your use, logically and critically understand the effects it has on your life and be able to have the control you feel you need over the substance are what I believe are important to leading a healthy and happy life, which it seems we are all pursuing.

Sorry if this entire post makes very little sense. More than anything I wanted to start a discussion to see how others view addiction. I believe as a community of fairly well educated people who are mostly daily users of a psychoactive substance this is more than likely the community with the best personal experience of addiction and how it has effected our own lives and the lives of those around us.

 

[Joel W.]

I have read that addiction can be more related to ones environment.

" In the 1970s, a professor of Psychology in Vancouver called Bruce Alexander noticed something odd about this experiment. The rat is put in the cage all alone. It has nothing to do but take the drugs. What would happen, he wondered, if we tried this differently? So Professor Alexander built Rat Park. It is a lush cage where the rats would have colored balls and the best rat-food and tunnels to scamper down and plenty of friends: everything a rat about town could want. What, Alexander wanted to know, will happen then?

In Rat Park, all the rats obviously tried both water bottles, because they didn’t know what was in them. But what happened next was startling.

The rats with good lives didn’t like the drugged water. They mostly shunned it, consuming less than a quarter of the drugs the isolated rats used. None of them died. While all the rats who were alone and unhappy became heavy users, none of the rats who had a happy environment did."

Change your cage.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-real-cause-of-addicti_b_6506936.html

I was a meth head for most of the 90's, but now I am not.

 

[Vaked420]

I have read that addiction can be more related to ones environment.

" In the 1970s, a professor of Psychology in Vancouver called Bruce Alexander noticed something odd about this experiment. The rat is put in the cage all alone. It has nothing to do but take the drugs. What would happen, he wondered, if we tried this differently? So Professor Alexander built Rat Park. It is a lush cage where the rats would have colored balls and the best rat-food and tunnels to scamper down and plenty of friends: everything a rat about town could want. What, Alexander wanted to know, will happen then?

In Rat Park, all the rats obviously tried both water bottles, because they didn’t know what was in them. But what happened next was startling.

The rats with good lives didn’t like the drugged water. They mostly shunned it, consuming less than a quarter of the drugs the isolated rats used. None of them died. While all the rats who were alone and unhappy became heavy users, none of the rats who had a happy environment did."

Change your cage.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-real-cause-of-addicti_b_6506936.html

I was a meth head for most of the 90's, but now I am not.

I've heard of that study before. It was referenced in a Ted talk I was watching that made the heroin vs morphine in a hospital argument. I believe having nothing else to do plays a very large part in drug addiction. But in a world as complex as ours and with people who are very unique, complex, and independent how do we find what we enjoy doing and how do we help people find their own healthier hobbies?

Thanks for the response Joel w.

 

[1DMF]

Addiction is complicated and there is a definitely a difference between physical addiction and mental addiction.

As Joel points out, it is also environment based as well as education, social economic, peerage.. lots of outside influences as well as psychological.

before we ingest any substances, we are already addicted to chemicals in our bodies and without them we would die, I found that out the hard way messing about with steroids (cortico for eczema not anabolic for the gym!)

So is it simply a matter of good addiction vs bad addiction?

 

[Joel W.]

I've heard of that study before. It was referenced in a Ted talk I was watching that made the heroin vs morphine in a hospital argument. I believe having nothing else to do plays a very large part in drug addiction. But in a world as complex as ours and with people who are very unique, complex, and independent how do we find what we enjoy doing and how do we help people find their own healthier hobbies?

I think being happy is a tough one to master in this fast moving, low interaction, day and age. Everyone is glued to their phones, not really interacting with each other. Love is a needed thing, both giving and receiving.

The heroin epidemic here is something that I have no real experience with except watching addicted friends and relatives. I know it is something I can see myself struggling with under different conditions.

I caught my finger in a 10" grinder months back. My wife gave me some oxy pills from her surgery and I ended up finding and eating the entire bottle over that next week.

I was pretty ashamed to tell her what I had done, but I did warn her about my addictive tendencies when she gave me the pills. I will stick with the pain next time.

 

[Vaked420]

Addiction is complicated and there is a definitely a difference between physical addiction and mental addiction.

As Joel points out, it is also environment based as well as education, social economic, peerage.. lots of outside influences as well as psychological.

before we ingest any substances, we are already addicted to chemicals in our bodies and without them we would die, I found that out the hard way messing about with steroids (cortico for eczema not anabolic for the gym!)

So is it simply a matter of good addiction vs bad addiction?

I've had this thought before. One could say that the majority of us are addicted to being happy. This gets at the very deep philisophical question at what is happiness and what is true fulfillment in life. I believe this is all up to personal judgement. Who are we to say people should even want to be happy? I believe in the end my goal is to educate myself on all aspects of addiction, physical and mental, so as to educate others. I feel that it is something that is very misunderstood and often associated with only drugs when in reality it applies to everything. What is selfishness besides an addiction to happiness to the point where you disregard the effects of your decisions on those around you?

I think being happy is a tough one to master in this fast moving, low interaction, day and age. Everyone is glued to their phones, not really interacting with each other. Love is a needed thing, both giving and receiving.

The heroin epidemic here is something that I have no real experience with except watching addicted friends and relatives. I know it is something I can see myself struggling with under different conditions.

I caught my finger in a 10" grinder months back. My wife gave me some oxy pills from her surgery and I ended up finding and eating the entire bottle over that next week.

I was pretty ashamed to tell her what I had done, but I did warn her about addictive tendencies when she gave me the pills. I will stick with the pain next time.

Interesting. If you don't mind Id be interested in asking you a few questions about your mental state when you sought out the pill bottle, how it effected you to take them and how you think your previous drug addictions effected you. I know those are some pretty intense personal questions haha so if you don't feel comfortable talking about it feel free to just not respond. The mind can make us do crazy things...

By the way thank you for your responses and personal experiences. It helps me to understand further others mentalities towards addiction and relate it to my own way of thinking about things. Thanks

Mod note: posts merged

 

[1DMF]

It definitely doesn't have to be drugs, if we are talking mental addiction.

Some are sex addicts, some money, some pain (either giving or receiving), some it's simply social media, angry birds or is it now pokemon, gambling is another - it was on the breakfast news this morning about an online bingo addiction epidemic - really, how is that even possible.

so define 'addiction' and the context it is being used.

I'm sure the urge to go score some smack is not the same as wanting to chat to your friends while playing foxy bingo! - or is it for some?

I'm addicted to FC! - I can go without it, but I keep being drawn back to either create threads for no apparent reason, or to see if someone has posted something that interests me - like this thread.

But is that really an addiction?

 

[Joel W.]

Interesting. If you don't mind Id be interested in asking you a few questions about your mental state when you sought out the pill bottle, how it effected you to take them and how you think your previous drug addictions effected you. I know those are some pretty intense personal questions haha so if you don't feel comfortable talking about it feel free to just not respond. The mind can make us do crazy things...

By the way thank you for your responses and personal experiences. It helps me to understand further others mentalities towards addiction and relate it to my own way of thinking about things. Thanks

I don't mind. At the time, 90% of my finger nail and much of the meat about an inch past the nail was gone and I did not go to the docs. Soon after she gave me the first 2 pills, the pain was instantly gone and I felt like I was on a big warm fluffy pillow cloud. The next day, the pain was back and I was like, fuck it, she has a full bottle and she won't notice.

This happened over and over until the bottle was empty. I felt pretty fucking low by this time and I could tell I was quickly becoming addicted. I am so thankful the bottle was empty and I have no druggie friends around or it could have been bad for me.

 

[Vaked420]

It definitely doesn't have to be drugs, if we are talking mental addiction.

Some are sex addicts, some money, some pain (either giving or receiving), some it's simply social media, angry birds or is it now pokemon, gambling is another - it was on the breakfast news this morning about an online bingo addiction epidemic - really, how is that even possible.

so define 'addiction' and the context it is being used.

I'm sure the urge to go score some smack is not the same as wanting to chat to your friends while playing foxy bingo! - or is it for some?

I'm addicted to FC! - I can go without it, but I keep being drawn back to either create threads for no apparent reason, or to see if someone has posted something that interests me - like this thread.

But is that really an addiction?

I think there's a fine line between habit and addiction. They are the same in every aspect except that an addiction has a negative overall impact on your life, which can only be decided by the user themself.

The online bingo is an interesting example. My grandma watches tons of crappy Persian TV(were Persian) and plays slot machine games on her iPad that take literally 0 thought. They're both a waste of time, but on the other hand, what else is she going to do all day? She has hobbies and spends time with family, but not enough to fill all her days. I think she'd consider it a habit, where as I'd consider it an addiction because in my opinion if she filled that time with more walks(she lacks motivation and is afraid she would get too tired to walk home even though she has a cell phone and literally dozens of family members would pick her up within 15 minutes of a phone call) and other activities. But on the other hand on the scale of how negative the addiction is, I don't think it severely debilitates her ability to enjoy life, I think it's just a waste of time and she knows it too.

I don't mind. At the time, 90% of my finger nail and much of the meat about an inch past the nail was gone and I did not go to the docs. Soon after she gave me the first 2 pills, the pain was instantly gone and I felt like I was on a big warm fluffy pillow cloud. The next day, the pain was back and I was like, fuck it, she has a full bottle and she won't notice.

This happened over and over until the bottle was empty. I felt pretty fucking low by this time and I could tell I was quickly becoming addicted. I am so thankful the bottle was empty and I have no druggie friends around or it could have been bad for me.

Interesting. I know one thing I have noticed is we all have different ways of being effected by the pros and cons of activities. I've noticed this specifically with drugs where people who do drugs often feel good, while people who never do drugs often immediately feel the negatives. My example is that I think as a result of using cannabis and using meth previously in your life you were some how more set up to enjoy drugs and once you had the pills you felt like you were on a warm fluffy cloud. But on the other hand my mom has always felt opiates have made her nauceous and uncomfortable. If im right heroin and morphine are nearly identical in their effects and if you look at most drug forums, most people say when they first tried heroin it was one of the most amazing experiences and ended up either realizing the dangers of that or chasing that high and falling into addiction. On the other hand my mom was given morphine and said she felt loopy, awful and out of control. Now obviously this may be a result of her being hospitalized and going through intense medical procedures, but I bet the experience for her would have been the same had she been given heroin recreationally. Is this a result of her never having done any drugs before, and rarely ever even drinking, does it reflect her as a person, her negative view of drugs in general, or is it some combination of those three and maybe some other factors as well?

Mod note: posts merged

 

[CarolKing]

You can become addicted to anything like eating, sex, playing video games, shopping or gambling. It creates dopamine. It effects the reward system in your brain. It makes you feel good.

Your memory wants to get to that same state again that same feeling. You want to do that activity over and over again. Then you get a tolerance to that activity and you want to do it more. Eventually the activity starts to interfere with your whole life and becomes a problem.

This all happens deep within the brain. It's not a theory really, it's science. There's a lot of unknowns about the brain. Why some people can become addicted with a certain activity whereas someone else can quit at any time.

 

[Vaked420]

You can become addicted to anything like eating, sex, playing video games, shopping or gambling. It creates dopamine. It effects the reward system in your brain. It makes you feel good.

Your memory wants to get to that same state again that same feeling. You want to do that activity over and over again. Then you get a tolerance to that activity and you want to do it more. Eventually the activity starts to interfere with your whole life and becomes a problem.

Let his all happens deep within the brain.

I agree with that, but then how do you balance addiction with a healthy habit? How do you find the line between something that leads to an overall better life and something that is holding you back from a more fulfilling life? What even is a fulfilling life?

I agree that this all happens deep within the brain and ties in with the deepest workings of how we perceive the world and how we decide what kind of life we want to live.

I think in the end these are personal questions and there is no right answer. In the end I guess my goal is to have such a deep understanding of how addiction and habits effect people that I can help those who seemingly can't help themselves. If we could show people an outside view of themselves I think it would vastly help people with their problems since often times the biggest thing standing in our way is ourselves.

Sorry, im rambling a little haha. I thrive in random discussion that often seems cyclical, but every cycle of the same subject seems to help me understand better how our brains work. Thanks for the response

 

[Joel W.]

My example is that I think as a result of using cannabis and using meth previously in your life you were some how more set up to enjoy drugs and once you had the pills you felt like you were on a warm fluffy cloud.

I started using herbs in middle school. All of my friends were older kids mostly. In high school we picked mushrooms, took acid, played with coke and drank like fish.

I struggled with alcohol for years until meth hit town. I would open a beer and set it down and forget about it. It made coke look like a weak joke. It was cheap and it was everywhere in town. I loved the first 12 hours but hated the next week.

I tried to quit it, every time, but it always found me again through friends. The only way I could get off it was to leave everyone I knew or loved and relocate far away. It worked for me and I have been clean now for 15 years or more.

 

[CarolKing]

I guess you would need to stop the activity that is interfering with your life if it can't be moderated. That would mean a self imposed rehab or go to a doctor. You need to be motivated to change, it only comes from you.

My son us addicted to something, it's meth or heroin. He won't tell me what it is because he is too ashamed. He held down a wonderful job throughout most of his 20s. He was very responsible.

Then he kept needing extra money. I would give it to him. Eventually he lost his job. I realized he was addicted to something.

I tried getting him rehab help but he wouldn't go. I had to tell him to leave my house because he had become a thief. The addiction was costing him more and more. He's homeless and not my boy that I remember. He has lost that twinkle in his eye.

I give him bags of food or a food gift card. I meet him at the end of a dead end road. He doesn't want me to know where he is living. I assume a homeless encampment.

If you need addiction help search for people that can help you. Only you can do it. If I could I would have picked my son up and put him in the car and taken him to rehab but he's 32 years old.

 

[macbill]

I gave up alcohol 30 yrs ago this September by doing the same thing: I stopped hanging with my drinking friends. No one ever called asking why I wasn't around anymore - indicating that the friendships were illusory.

I moved away from the SF Bay Area before cocaine entered the scene: I'm so happy I missed that and Meth because I was one stupid fellow who would have embraced both.

 

[Vaked420]

I started using herbs in middle school. All of my friends were older kids mostly. In high school we picked mushrooms, took acid, played with coke and drank like fish.

I struggled with alcohol for years until meth hit town. I would open a beer and set it down and forget about it. It made coke look like a weak joke. It was cheap and it was everywhere in town. I loved the first 12 hours but hated the next week.

I tried to quit it, every time, but it always found me again through friends. The only way I could get off it was to leave everyone I knew or loved and relocate far away. It worked for me and I have been clean now for 15 years or more.

Wow that's some story. I think for me something that I know has effected me is using cannabis from too young of an age. I believe it has to do with mental stability, being able to know what's reality before altering it. I started smoking when I was 16 and have been pretty much using cannabis daily since I was 17. I have taken breaks and usually keep my tolerance down for long periods of time so I think I've regained most of my grounding in reality, but around when I was 18 or 19 my life began to revolve around weed. If it wasn't for my girlfriend I would have given up the things that were important to me for weed. The hardest part for me almost came from the fact that I know I truly love weed. It is amazing, I love the culture and I love how it effects me. But I still struggle with the reality that I have habits of vaping when I shouldn't, and I know I still haven't been in a period where I haven't vaped for more than 3 weeks since I was 17 and a half(now about to be 21). I think thats made me skew a little bit my view of how weed plays a part in my life. I'm lucky I knew to stay away from most other drugs, except for the occasional mushrooms haha, because I would be in a hell of a lot worse of a place now.

Wow, I think sometimes it takes just digging deep into your deepest thoughts and writing it out that you realize how you truly feel about things. I think it's time for a tbreak for me haha. Thanks for the story and it was truly eye opening for me. It must have been hard to leave everything behind, but I'm sure now that you've left your previous life you would never wish to return. Well you know as I say that I realize that's not true. I guess that's the hardest part of missing something. You never really miss the bad parts, only the good. And man oh man do drugs have lots of good times. It's remembering the reality that all the good times were accompanied by some really bad times too.

Anyways thanks again for the story

I guess you would need to stop the activity that is interfering with your life if it can't be moderated. That would mean a self imposed rehab or go to a doctor. You need to be motivated to change, it only comes from you.

My son us addicted to something, it's meth or heroin. He won't tell me what it is because he is too ashamed. He held down a wonderful job throughout most of his 20s. He was very responsible.

Then he kept needing extra money. I would give it to him. Eventually he lost his job. I realized he was addicted to something.

I tried getting him rehab help but he wouldn't go. I had to tell him to leave my house because he had become a thief. The addiction was costing him more and more. He's homeless and not my boy that I remember. He has lost that twinkle in his eye.

I give him bags of food or a food gift card. I meet him at the end of a dead end road. He doesn't want me to know where he is living. I assume a homeless encampment.

If you need addiction help search for people that can help you. Only you can do it. If I could I would have picked my son up and put him in the car and taken him to rehab but he's 32 years old.

Wow, that must be hard to watch happen from the outside. It gives me good perspective on how my family reacted when they found me smoking at 17. My mom took it the hardest and it basically destroyed my relationship with my mom and sister. It was just a constant cycle of my mom trying to shelter me and cut me off from any bad influences to me feeling more and more closed in until I couldn't take it anymore and essentially cut most contact with my mom. That was about 2 years ago and even now our relationship is slowly recovering, but I can see the toll it's taken on her. My mom also has had serious health problems in the last 2 years, lost her job around the same time, got divorced from her second husband about 5 years ago and I think has been going through some mental challenges. But honestly I think through all that it was hard for me to see how much her worry for me, whether real or not, was effecting her. I've never doubted that everything she ever did was to attempt to help me and protect me, but she pushed me and drove a wedge between our relationship in doing so.

I know my story doesn't quite relate to yours, and yours truly saddens me, it must be so hard missing your son, while he is essentially consumed by the life he has now. I believe it's most likely similar to Joel w.'s life before he left it. The hardest part for me to rdeuce my smoking was the fact that everyone I knew, everything I did, and the way I had organized my life revolved around weed. Your son sounds like he has done similar around whatever he is doing. The relationships he has built, the lies he has most likely convinced himself of that he is doing the right thing or that he can never change if he wants to are what is keeping him stagnant most likely. It's hard that he has gotten to the point of hurting others to feed his addiction that he would steal from you, but maybe you can try to rebuild your relationship by trying to buy him lunch and eat it with him to try and reconnect. Often times it takes someone who has a different view of the world to help and addict see what they are doing to themselves and humble them enough to accept help. My girlfriend was the one sane person in my life who I respected enough to listen to when she said I was becoming addicted and showed me how it effected my mood.

Thank you for the story. I truly hope your son finds a more stable life and you get your son back. I wish you and your son the best of luck.

I gave up alcohol 30 yrs ago this September by doing the same thing: I stopped hanging with my drinking friends. No one ever called asking why I wasn't around anymore - indicating that the friendships were illusory.

I moved away from the SF Bay Area before cocaine entered the scene: I'm so happy I missed that and Meth because I was one stupid fellow who would have embraced both.

One of the things I believe was most developmental in my life was being completely and totally socially awkward in all of grade school. I had basically 1 good friend and could barely communicate with anyone else. But my family was very close and it taught me what true relationships are about. What most people consider friendship is nothing more than acquintance that is usually better than silence. A true friend sticks around and truly cares and accepts the other person. It's hard too when friendships begin to revolve around something you no longer have interest in. I have lost many friends to this, whether it was gaming in high school or weed over the last few years. Most of my friends of the last 3 or 4 years of my now smoke stupid amounts of weed, which there's nothing wrong with that, but most do it for all the wrong reasons and are truly addicted.

Same as you I am truly glad I never tried harder drugs. The stakes go way up with some of those drugs.

Thanks again to everyone to all your responses. It definitely helped me realize things in my own life and I'll have to sit and ponder some of this and do some reflection. Happy toking

 

[Joel W.]

It must have been hard to leave everything behind, but I'm sure now that you've left your previous life you would never wish to return.

That is true, i never want to go back. but even to this day, if an old friend was to put some in front of me, I can not say I could turn it down. That specific urge never really goes away for me. That made the decision to leave, very easy.

Having a good friend put me up on his couch for a month, help me find work and start over was the key.

 

[macbill]

Actually, I've done cocaine, but more as a special "vacation-to-the-Bay-Area" visiting old friends kind of way. That's why I'm glad I didn't live there anymore: of course, I loved it!!! I did not seek it out in Washington State because I could see how my friends were so involved. The whole scene: calling drug dealers at 2 am looking for some more. Alcohol was my drug of choice: downers denied the "fun" of drinking. Uppers went the wrong way.

I believe firmly I'd be dead if I had continued to drink. Honestly.

 

[syrupy]

Internet addiction can be a very tricky one. So much of our lives these days are spent online, it's easy to miss how addictive the internet can be, until our smartphones/computers die and we're forced to go outside.

 

[Stevenski]

Over the years I have suffered from many forms of addiction from physical addiction like opiates & benzos to crippling psychological addictions like gambling. The main issue is it is manifestation of the same illness & that illness is me & the fact I cannot deal with life on life's terms so I seek to escape the way I feel about life through altering my brain chemistry.

I have been staring at this post with my mind racing, thinking about the dormant past & how I am as close to a relapse now as I have ever been. That realization is both uplifting & terrifying at the same time. Uplifting because I alone am in charge of making that conscious choice & terrifying because I know through hard experience that once I make that choice all bets are off & the cycle will start again.

I was running well & building a life with a wonderful woman when I developed a case of kidney stones. It was so bad I had to have surgery but while waiting for the surgery for four months I was given a lot of opiates & that awakened a dormant beast. It was like an instant switch to addiction mode & I started to visit a lot of doctors to get scripts. When you turn up in a nice suit they tend to script you what you like & it was only after the surgery I recognized how deep I was in.

One thing was for sure I was not prepared to subject the most loving woman I know to the shit storm that was coming. Addiction has a cycle & that cycle cannot be interrupted until it is complete. I came home from work one day & told her it was over & I was leaving. She thought I was having an affair because I was telling a lot of lies to her about what I was doing & it is easier for her to think of me as a cheater than a man who fell once again to the cycle of addiction.

Once she was gone I had no accountability so could accelerate the cycle & my days consisted of "client meetings" that were on my route of medical centers & chemists. I made sure to mix up where I shopped so no suspicions were raised. One smart doctor looked at some database & the game was up for opiates & I was put on a blacklist. Since I was adamant about not picking up the steel I started extracting huge amounts of codeine & making liters of poppy seed tea to keep well. I knew a number of good Arab grocers that sold unwashed seeds by the kg.

I am not proud of this but at the same time I was a high performing employee & was promoted to more senior roles. After one too many close calls with the tea & a 2 year addiction cycle I took a week off work & detoxed myself. I had a few slip ups on the way but if anyone has drank PST it is about a unpleasant as it gets & I was not about to buy heroin on the street. I was asked if I could come back to head office & jumped at the chance as being close to my family helps keep my head right & was the right move to make.

It has been over three years since I used opiates but opiate addiction was a walk in the park compared to Benzo withdrawals & nothing comes close to the levels of total fucking insanity I displayed as a compulsive gambler. Thinking about that leaves me feeling the most bleak depressed thoughts possible . Gambling led me a genuine suicide attempt & I was so fucking pathetic at the time I managed to fuck that up .

One thing I can attest to is most people who have suffered with addiction carry a sense of shame about it. Even as open as I can be about my failings & flaws as a human I carry a deep sense of shame & guilt with me.

 

[Farid]

I've had a friend get off roxicet and morphine using suboxine, others used it (semi-successfully) to get off heroin. It works wonders for some people. I think their accepting families also helped them quit.

Alcohol is another story, though. What helped my friend get off opiates was the fact that society was behind him, cheerleading him through his recovery. What I mean by this is that opiates are not socially acceptable. So people who hear you're quitting opiates are extremely supportive.

Since alcohol is legal I feel like people get very little support when they're trying to quit. My friends who quit opiates look at them as "never again" since they know the risk and stigma.

The alcoholics I know always relapse, because they are convinced they can still have just one drink, because society says that one drink is OK.

 

[macbill]

they are convinced they can still have just one drink

And that is the rub. I've seen folks with 17 yrs sobriety think they can start having a glass of wine, and end up where they were before. For that reason, I am deeply afraid of that "first one". I know too well the Voice of Folly in my head: hopefully, I'll never believe him.

 

[BadDog No]

Sweet group therapy session folks, and as wiseass as that may seem at first read; it's not meant to be. Lots of honesty here and love of life. I'm sure others find these stories as inspiring and comforting as I do. And of course as an alumni of some 15 to 20 psychiatric hospitalizations, I have my own sad self medicating to deal with manicdepression story, but who cares really. The past sucked but we all survived and in finding whatever nonhurtful coping mechanisms we have; that's a kind of thriving. More than one wise person has pointed out that there is really only one art: awareness.

 

[Vaked420]

Sweet group therapy session folks, and as wiseass as that may seem at first read; it's not meant to be. Lots of honesty here and love of life. I'm sure others find these stories as inspiring and comforting as I do. And of course as an alumni of some 15 to 20 psychiatric hospitalizations, I have my own sad self medicating to deal with manicdepression story, but who cares really. The past sucked but we all survived and in finding whatever nonhurtful coping mechanisms we have; that's a kind of thriving. More than one wise person has pointed out that there is really only one art: awareness.

This. I totally agree that just opening up and talking about things is so important in life. I think we become so socially trained to be afraid of our deepest secrets that we learn to try and figure it out on our own, which as everyone knows two heads is better than one. I've gone through huge personal development in the last 2 or 3 months by becoming comfortable with the fact that we all have problems, we all have crazy things going on that no one would believe are happening, but they are realities of life and they are what make us us. And if we ever hope to deal with them we need to be aware of all of the complexities and having a second opinion almost always helps to see the situation from a different point of view.

 

[RUDE BOY]

And that is the rub. I've seen folks with 17 yrs sobriety think they can start having a glass of wine, and end up where they were before. For that reason, I am deeply afraid of that "first one". I know too well the Voice of Folly in my head: hopefully, I'll never believe him.

Just wanted to say that This is where i am. I haven't had a drink for 28 years but am still pretty sure that If I give in when others think i should (and think I can) have that "glass" of wine with dinner or just "toast" someones good fortune with a glass of champagne or a "shot" I'll be back where I was in '87/'88 with my life going Quickly to shit in a matter of weeks. If I were to drink one drink today I'm certain it would just be a matter of time before that 'voice' convinces me that "look you got away with that one drink and you were fine, why not enjoy yourself and have a few Absolut gimlets while you watch this band", then soon after I'll be starting the day with a shot of vodka and Kahlua in my morning coffee and passing/blacking out by dinner time.

Had someone tell me long ago that the first drink was like the engine of a train and listening to the voice that says "you'll be fine Now, it's been years" is like standing on the tracks with that engine bearing down on ya, take that drink and the engine gets you and sucks ya under the train then after a little time the caboose(your Last drink) spits out and leaves your mangled and broken body on the tracks... The person who told me that drank after 25 years sober and soon died of alcohol poisoning.

Don't know if this really adds to the discussion here but was brought to mind while reading this thread.

 

[Stevenski]

I don't mind. At the time, 90% of my finger nail and much of the meat about an inch past the nail was gone and I did not go to the docs. Soon after she gave me the first 2 pills, the pain was instantly gone and I felt like I was on a big warm fluffy pillow cloud. The next day, the pain was back and I was like, fuck it, she has a full bottle and she won't notice.

This happened over and over until the bottle was empty. I felt pretty fucking low by this time and I could tell I was quickly becoming addicted. I am so thankful the bottle was empty and I have no druggie friends around or it could have been bad for me.

WOWEE talk about triggering (I am not having a dig either ). That is exactly how it all began again for me & lead to my previous post. Same illness, different manifestation, same results . The fear of a kidney stone attack was more like continual terror. I was hospitalized six times as the Oxy would not break through the pain & once the high dose IV morphine was supplied it was game over as far as my resistance to fight the demons.

Yet gambling was so much worse for me. I think that has a lot to do with the way Australian society views binge drinking & gambling. It is very socially acceptable & there is continual saturation coverage of gambling for every given situation & event. It is a very serious problem in Australia that has destroyed countless lives. I know too many people who killed themselves after another disastrous relapse on the punt.

Things get much worse when I use drugs to mask the disgust I feel at the compulsive gambling & so becomes a dual cycle of endless disasters & calamities. What is funny is how easy high pressure jobs are compared to hiding a full blown addict lifestyle. What really got me was the slot machines & I am far from a stupid person. I played arcade games as a child & pokies are a natural progression as a adult.

These machines are carefully created to appeal at a neurological level & designed to extract every last cent they can & they work incredibly well. I have seen & participated in the devastation first hand. I sailed down the river denial for many years & have seen people fight their way back from the edge & rebuild a healthy, fruitful life only to destroy it in months with a relapse. The really fucked up part is the gap between relapse & rock bottom gets shorter & shorter with each relapse. You can survive at rock bottom for a lengthy period if you are cunning & resourceful.

There was a period of time when I would speak at rehabs & was heavily involved with GA doing service work. I still remember chairing a meeting & confessing to a relapse earlier that day after over 2 years of recovery. I had to resign as group treasurer & could no longer do rehab service work. I found the whole 12 step process works but it can be very cult like with some real fucking zealots & that is across the NA, GA & AA spectrum.

Despite all the insanity I am lucky really. I "got it" at a relative young age & am highly aware of my tendencies & triggers. It is confronting when you see someone who has worked hard all their life lose everything they ever worked for at 70 after they retire comfortably yet lose millions down at the club. I abuse cannabis but it is the lesser of many more destructive behaviors I could engage in so fuck it life could be worse.

A friend once described the illness of addiction as "I'm in here struggling with sobriety & that fucker is doing pushups & situps, waiting for a single moment of weakness". Congratulations on your recovery time @macbill & @RUDE BOY, all those years can only be achieved by taking things a day at a time .