A discussion regarding tolerance

[herbalist33]

hi all,

I hope I manage to explain what I mean here, so here goes:

Since I quit Combustion 16 months ago, I have often wondered exactly where my tolerance is now compared to when I was smoking. I can't work out whether my tolerance has decreased and I'm now a lightweight, or whether my tolerance has increased and my body/ blood is choc full on cannabinoids on a regular basis...

As many people are aware, Combustion can destroy much of the cannabinoids present on our herb before they even reach your lungs (I can't quite remember the figure, but it is quite a significant amount). Vaping is a lot more efficient in getting active cannabinoids into your body, up to 95% of vapour is cannabinoids.

Now since I quit Combustion, my consumption has reduced significantly in terms of amount of herb used per day/week. Generally I would say I went from smoking a g a day in joints with tobacco, to vaping a g every 3 days.

What I can't work out though is whether my tolerance has shot up despite using less material, due to receiving higher amounts of cannabinoids in my vapour. Or whether my tolerance is actually a lot lower now, and that if I went back to Combustion (not actually going to happen) I would be completely trashed.

Does anyone understand what I mean?

Following on from this thought, what I also wonder is how long would it take to pass a drug test when you strictly vape compared to strictly combusting. Because of the higher amount of cannabinoids contained in vapour, does vaping load up your system and make it take longer for your body to completely remove the metabolites?

Does anyone have any info on this?

Peace

 

[t-dub]

As many people are aware, Combustion can destroy much of the cannabinoids present on our herb before they even reach your lungs (I can't quite remember the figure, but it is quite a significant amount).

Its my understanding that it is roughly 50%.

With a gram lasting you 3 days now that sounds about right compared to your combustion days. I would say your tolerance is probably about the same as it was. Watch your consumption over time to get an idea if you are shifting.

Following on from this thought, what I also wonder is how long would it take to pass a drug test when you strictly vape compared to strictly combusting. Because of the higher amount of cannabinoids contained in vapour, does vaping load up your system and make it take longer for your body to completely remove the metabolites?

As far a metabolites in your system they should take the same amount of time to clear as before. Kinda depends on frequency of use and your % of body fat. Since our medicine is mainly non-polar (fat soluble) this is where they tend to hang out for the long term.

Passing drug tests can be tricky depending on the equipment being used. Many companies go on the cheap side so the results will vary.

 

[herbalist33]

Thanks for the reply @t-dub !

I don't get drug tested where I work, and I reckon the day they introduce testing is the day I quit/ get sacked. But my question on drug testing arises because I wonder whether considering vaping introduces more cannabinoids into your system this means that you end up with more metabolites stored in your fat cells, thus causing it to take longer to clear your body out and reset your tolerance.

Put it this way:

Imagine you are a complete lightweight, only vape once A week, and one draw on a vape Is all you need and gets you literally trashed. It would be safe to say that even though you subjectively feel much more stoned than a more regular vaper, your system will be clear of cannabinoids and their metabolites much much quicker than a regular vaper, and your tolerance will 'reset' or return to normal much quicker too.

Now imagine you are an every day wake and baker, vaping morning till night. It takes much more cannabinoids in your system to get to where you want to be, and most probably you won't even be able to get as trashed as the lightweight vaper described above. Your tolerance is high, there's more cannabinoids in your system despite you not feeling as stoned as the person above, and presumably it would take much much longer to rid your body of cannabinoids and their metabolites. And so it would take longer for your tolerance to return to normal too.

Now those two examples seem pretty straight forward (I'm more than willing to be corrected tho). However when you try to compare smoking to vaping it is much more difficult.

Person A smokes joints all day, and Person B vapes all day. Both get to the same level of high. But in terms of amounts of cannabinoids in their system, does the vaper end up with much more in his system? It doesn't seem right to just assume that because more cannabinoids are available in vapour that the vaper will use less herb to get to where he wants to be. What is to say that because the smoker is used to having half of their cannabinoids being destroyed through combustion, that they actually have a lower tolerance than the vaper, and so need less to get the same level of high?....

Aargh, I'm really struggling here to explain what I mean!!! And I'm rambling so il shut up! But if any of this makes any sense to anyone, please feel free to join this rambling thought process of mine lol!

I think essentially what I want to know is this:

Considering I used to smoke every day and now vape every day, on average are my cannabinoid levels in my body more now than when I was smoking. I seem to feel just as high etc....

God I'm still not making sense... hahahahahahahahaha

Peace

 

[ginolicious]

I use to rip a half Z in a bong weekly. Only shared with the wife who didn't blaze as much. I quit for 2 years do to a lung condition and then came back and started vaping. I'm now 2 grams a month.

Vaping gets everything from the bud more than combusting and therefore less gets you higher and for longer therefore cutting down usuage. Sorry I'm vaped

 

[chris 71]

i think i might understand what your getting at and have wondered similar my self .
i cant recall exactly were i read this , but it was a study on long term heavy cannabis users . and cb1 and cb2 receptors and they found that the cb1 and cb2 receptors reset them selves fairly quickly with abstinence , back to close to normal . seeing a good rebound speed with receptors coming back to near normal , after just a couple days . and almost fully back to non user functioning level after like a month . but still falling just short .

i know my self i have often thought i must be primed to the brim with stored cannabinoids , vaping multiple times daily for years . to the point i do not have the same effects as i used to have . some of which i miss . if i do smoke which sometimes i do just because i enjoy it .
i often notice that i can smoke way more then i did before vaping , this tells me that yes , even with using less overall product my tolerance is much higher from vaping then smoking .

im in the process of trying to lower my tolerance at the moment by lowering considerably the strength of the cannabis im using im using lower thc levels going from like in the 20 percent range down to the 10 percent range in a attempt to reset my receptors because its just not the same to me anymore .

i suppose even though im resetting my receptors , it could take a while longer to clear the stored stuff thats in my body

 

[t-dub]

But my question on drug testing arises because I wonder whether considering vaping introduces more cannabinoids into your system this means that you end up with more metabolites stored in your fat cells, thus causing it to take longer to clear your body out and reset your tolerance.

No. You are somehow under the misconception that just because vapor is more pure that it will have an effect on your tolerance or test. The fact is that with more pure inhalations you actually consume less. Only if you go on a binge and vape massive amounts of concentrates will you raise your tolerance or have a bigger problem, than normal, with a drug test.

Person A smokes joints all day, and Person B vapes all day. Both get to the same level of high. But in terms of amounts of cannabinoids in their system, does the vaper end up with much more in his system?

No in my humble opinion. Because either way you are smoking/vaping to satisfaction. The results are the same and for drug testing are the same. The only thing your are missing by vaping is the carbon monoxide, benzene, and all the other trash created by combustion. Now, will that effect your high? Yes it will because a lot of people associate the crappy feeling they get from the residues of combustion think that that is getting high when its not.

Considering I used to smoke every day and now vape every day, on average are my cannabinoid levels in my body more now than when I was smoking. I seem to feel just as high etc....

This is the key. You have found it on your own. Enjoy your vapor my friend . . .

if i do smoke which sometimes i do just because i enjoy it .

And this is the reason you will never know vaporizing's full potential. You MUST quit combusting, clean out your system, to know what vapor is really about. It takes longer than you think.

 

[chris 71]

And this is the reason you will never know vaporizing's full potential. You MUST quit combusting, clean out your system, to know what vapor is really about. It takes longer than you think.

sorry friend , but i have been vaping for just about 5 years now , i know it inside and out . long history of smoking too 30 years plus . there have been plenty of times were i have only vaped for long periods of time at least a year straight at time . in my IMO you down regulate your receptors more from vaping then smoking . and this is obviously because you take in more canabiniods . could you store more in your body fat as well because of this ? well i cant say for sure as i dont know , but it could be possible why not ? i know all about vaping thank you very much !!!

 

[Baron23]

I think one of the questions asked was whether infrequent vaping of very small amounts would result in less metabolites being present in your system. At one time I was facing some work related drug tests and looked into this and my understanding is yes....infrequent micros dosers will probably clear a drug test much faster that a chronic user....this is, I believe, a more a spectrum than a binary situation. I would suppose that there is a saturation point somewhere where it tops out.

I got some home MJ tests from Walgreen and it took me four full weeks to clear but these tests may/may not be as sensitive as ones run by commercial labs.

Cheers

 

[TboneToker]

I use to rip a half Z in a bong weekly. Only shared with the wife who didn't blaze as much. I quit for 2 years do to a lung condition and then came back and started vaping. I'm now 2 grams a month.

Vaping gets everything from the bud more than combusting and therefore less gets you higher and for longer therefore cutting down usuage. Sorry I'm vaped

Hmm I still rip a half z through the evo. I thought it might cut down my consumption once I finally switched to only vaping, but I still consume average 2g per day, which is equal to when I smoked.

I wonder if maybe I'm not vaping the material all the way through, but I don't think it's that...

 

[ginolicious]

@TboneToker i also took a 2 year break.

 

[MoltenTiger]

I find I have built a tolerance for vaping and have lost my tolerance to smoking and tobacco after making the change.
Now when I smoke (mixed, rarely) it's very noticeably different, it exacerbates the bad aspects of smoking and reduces the efficacy of the actives.
I can keep up with daily smokers easily enough, but I tap out at a lower level than I used to due to headaches.
I find smoking is better for sleeping, but it takes a massive toll on the body.

After longer breaks from smoking, smoking mixes induces vertigo and other oxygen starved sensation, but I don't get anything like that first time smoking feeling from the herb itself, only from nasty bullshit (the only foreign chemicals to my system).
Unfortunately a lot of people I know are addicted to that nasty bullshit, and it's that fog inducing crap that must be a good candidate for the general consensus of an extremely valuable plant.
The fog is slowly lifting, fuckcombustion

 

[OldOyler]

I wonder if maybe I'm not vaping the material all the way through, but I don't think it's that..

Peace tbone!

Wanted to mention real quick in your case - maybe jot down your list of conditions and head over to the FC medical forum, I found some great stuff there, at least some good interactive opinions.

I only mentioned it because you had your description listed as medical.

Doctors seem to prescribe / certify the need for cannabis. But sometimes we have to kind of help expound on that at home, you know? Like depending on time of day, where the pain is in my body, or if I am also experiencing ptsd, etc.

Experiment and find out what works best at what times, I hit wax for several days at 75% of total intake to knock out pain, for instance. Then I take a break for a few days.

I found that once I nailed down what worked when, and why, etc. then it wasn't just "throw a crapload of cannabis in OldOyler's direction and see what still hurts." No, I have found no *perfect* mix and match, but I am making progress as long as I don't see "cannabis, and at xx dosage" as the goal but "what strain, for what condition, in what form of use, at what time of day".

Otherwise we are just using the same old medical mafia formula of "Throw a shit-ton at it, if it stops working switch to something else". Cannabis has so much variety that a medical patient like myself has to see that the increased choices mean I can break free from that old medical-industry help big pharma way of prescribing single-ingredient medications.

Peace and good health to everyone!

 

[archangelz001]

Hmm I still rip a half z through the evo. I thought it might cut down my consumption once I finally switched to only vaping, but I still consume average 2g per day, which is equal to when I smoked.

I wonder if maybe I'm not vaping the material all the way through, but I don't think it's that...

You are the rare person who vapes as much as they once smoked. Most people find that they use about half as much and enjoy the clear high better. I'd say that if you are discarding your ABV while you are still getting vapor from it then you are not using it as efficiently as is possible. However I and many others stop vaping when the burnt popcorn taste develops, leaving a lot of cannabinoids unvaped. Realize that when you burned you got 100% ash leftover. So even though burning may only provide 25% extraction of cannabinoids, all the material is used up. Whereas when vaping it's possible to extract 40% or more of the cannabinoids but if the ABV isn't dark brown there are still goodies left. For maximum efficiency keep vaping as long is vapor is being produced. Or revape your ABV. Personally I don't do this because I have access to many dispensaries here in Cali and I grew in my backyard and harvested almost a pound of various strains this year. And my vaping consumption ranges from 0.05 to 0.2 grams per day.

check out these links if you haven't seen them before:
https://www.theweedblog.com/smoking-marijuana-vs-vaporizing-marijuana-infographic/

http://www.canorml.org/healthfacts/...-Drastically-Reduce-Toxins-in-Marijuana-Smoke

 

[Vaked420]

hi all,

I hope I manage to explain what I mean here, so here goes:

Since I quit Combustion 16 months ago, I have often wondered exactly where my tolerance is now compared to when I was smoking. I can't work out whether my tolerance has decreased and I'm now a lightweight, or whether my tolerance has increased and my body/ blood is choc full on cannabinoids on a regular basis...

As many people are aware, Combustion can destroy much of the cannabinoids present on our herb before they even reach your lungs (I can't quite remember the figure, but it is quite a significant amount). Vaping is a lot more efficient in getting active cannabinoids into your body, up to 95% of vapour is cannabinoids.

Now since I quit Combustion, my consumption has reduced significantly in terms of amount of herb used per day/week. Generally I would say I went from smoking a g a day in joints with tobacco, to vaping a g every 3 days.

What I can't work out though is whether my tolerance has shot up despite using less material, due to receiving higher amounts of cannabinoids in my vapour. Or whether my tolerance is actually a lot lower now, and that if I went back to Combustion (not actually going to happen) I would be completely trashed.

Does anyone understand what I mean?

Following on from this thought, what I also wonder is how long would it take to pass a drug test when you strictly vape compared to strictly combusting. Because of the higher amount of cannabinoids contained in vapour, does vaping load up your system and make it take longer for your body to completely remove the metabolites?

Does anyone have any info on this?

Peace

Lol I feel like you're getting a lot of responses that aren't really hitting what you were looking for, which is are you getting more cannabinoids actually in your system now vs when you combusted a greater amount and is your tolerance higher or lower, and are you just unaware of it because vaping is different. And the whole drug test metabolites thing came about as a measure to see how many were originally in the system, not to see if vaping actually has a difference, you're not looking for drug test advice.

What I would say is its a different tolerance. When combusting, a large part of the tolerance is to the head rush of combustion itself. And the cannabinoids are different and absorbed into the system at a different rate, all leading to a different experience. If you're looking for general "cannabinoid numbing" as far as does it take more actual cannabinoids to get you stoned, I'd say it's hard to know for sure, but you're probably in the same ball park going from gram a day in j's to 1/3rd gram vaped, again depending on your vape, depending on your temp blah blah blah. Ballpark estimate I'd say you get a small factor more cannabinoids to feel the same high to make up for the combustion high of oxygen deprevation, but the exact answer again depends on those factors. But since you now have no tolerance to the effects of combustion oxygen deprevation, different release of cannabinoids etc. I'd say your tolerance would seem lower if you combusted now. Whenever I hit a bong as of late I get a different kind of high that is very heavy and it doesn't take me much compared to my old days as long as I'm not combustion often anymore and sticking to vaping.

TLDR you're probably getting a bit more cannabinoids in your system now to make up for the fact that combustion gets you high on oxygen deprevation and kicks in quicker as well. Hope that helped?

 

[XiolaOne]

New to vaping and find im using more material now then smoking. On my second and more sessions in a day, it's very hard to get the same high I did from my first session.

Maybe I'm just still getting use to the FW4 as I find it hard to get vapor on a consistent basis

 

[Baron23]

However I and many others stop vaping when the burnt popcorn taste develops, leaving a lot of cannabinoids unvaped.

I'm not at all certain that this is true. I have rather moved away from squeezing that last draw out of a load and I personally have found that although there will be some degree of visible vapor, that does not mean that the contents of the vapor are worth the time/effort/heat on my lungs.

To me, its is very much last that last hit off of a bowl...yeah, you got some smoke but no, there really wasn't anything worthwhile in it.

I guess the phrase I take exception to is "a lot". I save my AVB as I do think there is some useful cannabinoids in there, but not much which is why people tend to collect a LOT of AVB before trying to extract or cook with it.

As far as color goes, I have found (and this is my opinion only) that the color of the AVB isn't a totally clear indicator of whether the load is properly vaped. I find conduction vapes typically yield darker brown AVB consistently compared to convection vapes. The convection vapes will often have small wisps of green which I think is probably ground up stems.

Anyway, we are all varied and different and like to do different things. If you don't view it as I do, that's perfectly understandable....and really a quite common occurrence over my lifetime! LOL

Cheers

 

[biohacker]

As far as color goes, I have found (and this is my opinion only) that the color of the AVB isn't a totally clear indicator of whether the load is properly vaped. I find conduction vapes typically yield darker brown AVB consistently compared to convection vapes. The convection vapes will often have small wisps of green which I think is probably ground up stems.

You are not alone, there is a thread(s) here that discusses the caramelization process, and ABV colour is not an accurate indication of actives remaining whatsoever. I believe @pakalolo may be of assistance here as I think he may be the resident expert on the topic.

Popcorn taste definitely cannot be close to an even somewhat accurate indication IMO.

With respect to tolerance, i've been combustion free for a decade, and when I did try combustion after switching to vaping, I couldn't even really get medicated properly. And I HATED the smoke! Never again.

 

[archangelz001]

Anyway, we are all varied and different and like to do different things. If you don't view it as I do, that's perfectly understandable....and really a quite common occurrence over my lifetime! LOL

Cheers

We all have our points of view. I rarely vape until there is no more vapor myself. I don't like the taste and I have plenty of herb. And I rarely vape at max temp, preferring the 340-380 range. My experience is that 3 good size draws burning a joint will get me as high as 6 ten-second hits on my vaporizers, but significantly less herb is used vaping. The OP says he uses more herb to vape and gets less psychoactivity. I find that hard to understand frankly, as it goes contrary to my experience, and all the vapers I know personally.

 

[strictly vapor]

I can say that after not combusting once for 3 years and taking part in a 3 way .7 joint recently I was definitely feelings the effects. It wasn't the same high level thc high I've come to expect from vaping but the best way to describe it is I was "tripping". This was after vaping and consuming edibles but still a very noticeable addition to my overall impairment.

I've always felt that the more ways we use our medicine the lower our tolerance stays and the more enjoyment we get. It used to be a bong, an EQ and joints/blunts but that has turned into multiple vapes for every occasion.

My personal theory is that more cannabinoids are present for longer in the bloodstream with vaporization. I base this on my personal experience with vapor, which has resulted in significantly more time between cravings, and I would take it a step further and say that perhaps gastric bypass oral ingestion would remain the longest?

Looking forward to official studies on all delivery methods!

 

[organicali]

I think portable vapes like the pax have the least effect on me, but ripping volcano bags is more potent than smoking a joint. Nothing beats bong hits.

In general vaporization seems to be less potent than combustion, at least for plant material.

 

[Shane McTerpy]

I had to have a break from cannabis for work related reasons. From only vaping and dabbing it took me 3 months to pass a drug test that I took every week. I vaped daily & quite heavily for anyone wondering.

 

[Sawyer]

Dabbing really increases the time it takes for the THC level in your urine to fall below the commonly used 50 ng/ml cutoff. Body fat, metabolism and your level of activity of course always play a role as well.
As for the difference between smoking and vaping, tough to say I guess... It all depends. Let's say smoking destroys 50% of the cannabinoids present. If you'd smoke a gram of weed which has 20% THC (so 0.2g or 200mg in total) you'd end up ingesting: 200mg * 0.5 = 100mg THC. Let's put vaping at 90% efficiency. The same gram of weed would give you 200 * 0.9 = 180mg THC. But seeing as smoking isn't as efficient as vaping, you'll probably smoke more than you vape.

 

[biohacker]

Dabbing really increases the time it takes for the THC level in your urine to fall below the commonly used 50 ng/ml cutoff.

Bit of a generalization no? Do you have a reference for this? I've cut my daily dabs from .5g/day in half, and it's been 10000000% easier than when i've done this with flower. I think it has to do with toxins in flower vapour.

 

[Sawyer]

Well, you got me there. No references aside from anecdotes... Of course if you take in the same amount of THC it would take the same time to excrete it again. Just associated dabbing with heavy use in my head. My bad.

 

[biohacker]

Just associated dabbing with heavy use in my head. My bad.

All good bro, most people do!! Micro dosing dabs is awesome!