18650 Battery Safety

RustyOldNail

RustyOldNail

SEARCH for the treasure...
Plastic & silicone cases and wraps are good for transportation, a fireproof case is meant for home STORAGE, hence my initial recommendation. Only you can determine your tolerance for safety. Always make sure you have FIRE INSURANCE for home or apartment, and hope your neighbors follow proper battery safety storage and usage guidelines.

There are many products that have evolved since I bought the “BatSafe” brand, so do your own research.
I keep my BatSafe box in my unused fireplace as added insurance, hopefully you’ll never experience a lithium battery fire, taking all safety precautions as you can might be worth more in the end, then yet another vape device you probably don’t need……
 
T

tswan

Active Member
I only have 1 18650 that came with my device. Now that I have an external charger with 4 ports. I am looking to get some extras. I have read that you should stay away from amazon, so can someone direct me to the best online seller for reliable 18650s? I am in the US if that matters.
 
tswan,
jbm

jbm

Well-Known Member
SwanTonSoup said:
I only have 1 18650 that came with my device. Now that I have an external charger with 4 ports. I am looking to get some extras. I have read that you should stay away from amazon, so can someone direct me to the best online seller for reliable 18650s? I am in the US if that matters.
Click to expand...
I have had good luck with Liion Wholesale
liionwholesale.com

Liion Wholesale Batteries | Li-ion battery/cell distributor

Liion Wholesale is a US-based wholesale distributor specializing in authentic high quality lithium ion batteries, fast shipping, and expert customer support.
liionwholesale.com liionwholesale.com
 
Grass Yes

Grass Yes

Yes
Staff member
SwanTonSoup said:
I only have 1 18650 that came with my device. Now that I have an external charger with 4 ports. I am looking to get some extras. I have read that you should stay away from amazon, so can someone direct me to the best online seller for reliable 18650s? I am in the US if that matters.
Click to expand...
Direct from Mooch's own site:
Some Good Vendors (in alphabetical order)
nubattery.co.uk
18650batterystore.com
akkuteile.de
ecoluxshopdirect.co.uk
fogstar.co.uk
illumn.com
imrbatteries.com
liionwholesale.com
orbtronic.com
Click to expand...
 
666Honeybadger

666Honeybadger

Unknown member
What's the best way to store new batteries?
I bought a fresh batch and don't want to bring them all in rotation at the same time. Was thinking to just keep them like they came (so no charging), in a battery box in a cool room.
Or are there better ways?
How long can they be stored before they start to degrade from not being used?
 
cx714

cx714

Unregulated Tendencies
From the horse’s mouth:
RustyOldNail said:
Lithium batteries have a supposed shelf life of approximately 10 years.
Best long term storage is to charge them to about 3.8 volts, and store in refrigerator.
Click to expand...
Alternatively, try Battery University, but that requires more reading, thinking, and general paying attention than most of us want to put in.

I mean what’s the worse that could happen? 🤷‍♂️
Fire Fail GIF
 
ChipNJ

ChipNJ

Well-Known Member
I have the Epoch X4 Touch - LCD Touch Screen 4 Bay Battery Charger (linked below) and want to test my batteries. I want to recycle the ones that are bad, but I am not 100% clear what am I looking for when I test them. The instructions that came with the charger are not clear on what makes a battery bad. Thanks.

www.18650batterystore.com

Epoch X4 Touch - LCD Touch Screen 4 Bay Battery Charger

ouch Screen LCD screen instantly shows charging progress, battery voltage, current, time, capacity, charge-discharge curve and display diagram of internal resistance testing. Functions include charging, discharging, capacity testing and battery internal resistance testing
www.18650batterystore.com www.18650batterystore.com
 
ChipNJ,
KeroZen

KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
You want to test their internal resistance mostly. It's unclear whether that should be done when the battery is full or depleted, but since it's easier to have them charged full to more or less the same voltage (minus the resting voltage drop) as the charger will stop, this is what I do. Otherwise you can't really ensure that they are discharged to the same point, making comparisons more difficult.

There are no absolute values telling you what IR is good or bad, since it depends on the cell model and how it was built. Also can vary depending if the charger does AC impedence or DC testing. But the lower the value the better. So if you have one cell say in the 20's it's probably good, but if another read in the high 80's or more, it's probably getting old.

Another test is to charge them full, and let them rest for a couple hours outside the charger and measure how much their resting voltage dropped. A cell that was charged to 4.20V that drops quickly to 3.90V for instance is very likely in a bad shape. Cells that seem to self-discharge heavily while sitting on your shelf are also suspicious. If for instance you dig one and it dropped below 3V, mark it and watch it closely. It might well be developing dendrites internally.
 
Hippie

Hippie

Well-Known Member
Do the capacity test
The capacity will reduce over time

The battery sag is another indicator you can keep an eye on.
Battery sag can be seen by checking the battery power level when you pick up the mod, the power level in and after use, and checking the power again after it's sat for a min or 2. As the batteries age the remaining power level will fluctuate more
 
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ChipNJ

ChipNJ

Well-Known Member
KeroZen said:
You want to test their internal resistance mostly. It's unclear whether that should be done when the battery is full or depleted, but since it's easier to have them charged full to more or less the same voltage (minus the resting voltage drop) as the charger will stop, this is what I do. Otherwise you can't really ensure that they are discharged to the same point, making comparisons more difficult.

There are no absolute values telling you what IR is good or bad, since it depends on the cell model and how it was built. Also can vary depending if the charger does AC impedence or DC testing. But the lower the value the better. So if you have one cell say in the 20's it's probably good, but if another read in the high 80's or more, it's probably getting old.

Another test is to charge them full, and let them rest for a couple hours outside the charger and measure how much their resting voltage dropped. A cell that was charged to 4.20V that drops quickly to 3.90V for instance is very likely in a bad shape. Cells that seem to self-discharge heavily while sitting on your shelf are also suspicious. If for instance you dig one and it dropped below 3V, mark it and watch it closely. It might well be developing dendrites internally.
Click to expand...
Thank you this is helpful.
 
ChipNJ,
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ChipNJ

ChipNJ

Well-Known Member
Hippie said:
Do the capacity test
The capacity will reduce over time

The battery sag is another indicator you can keep an eye on.
Battery sag can be seen by checking the battery power level when you pick up the mod, the power level in and after use, and checking the power again after it's sat for a min or 2. As the batteries age the remaining power level will fluctuate more
Click to expand...
Thanks. I will try both of these.
 
ChipNJ,
RustyOldNail

RustyOldNail

SEARCH for the treasure...
KenZero gave good advice!

Unfortunately, getting accurate results with most chargers that have an IR FUNCTION, is the chargers internals, even the battery sliders, all of which can add resistance, meaning they aren’t very accurate. The next issue is most of these chargers give you a DC result, which is okay, but most battery manufacturers use AC equipment tests, and then publish those numbers in their battery specifications sheets. There is no DC to AC conversions between these two types of measurements. So it’s very difficult to find DC battery specs., so as Ken suggests, you should read a “new” one, same brand and model, and write down your DC results, giving you something to compare to.

I have a MC3000 (a more expensive charger then most) which has the DC IR feature, but I have to play with the sliders, sometimes spin the batteries while in the sliders, and do 3-4 checks each time, and record the lowest number. I also have a separate meter, that directly reads AC IR, at least those results correspond to the battery spec sheets, so I know what range I’m in. I use that after waiting an hour after a full 4.2 volt charge. You don’t want to read a warm battery immediately after a charge, the IR needs to settle.

One simple way to deal with battery health, is to date your batteries, rotate them, and depending on your usage, figure 1-3 years of good life using top shelf batteries like Molicel. DON’T buy cheap “re-wraps”!
Most lithium cylinder batteries have an approximate 300 charge cycles, and 10 year shelf life if stored properly. You’ll probably notice a performance degradation slowly over time, and needing to charge more often, then when they were new. As a mostly inexpensive “fuel”, consider the batteries as a consumable item. I don’t spend much time testing batteries anymore, as I’ll just buy new ones when the date and performance dictates, it’s time. Learning testing is a worthy journey, but in the end, you want to ENJOY your battery device!

Below is a link that explains IR:

batteryuniversity.com

BU-902: How to Measure Internal Resistance

BU meta description needed...
batteryuniversity.com batteryuniversity.com
 
ChipNJ

ChipNJ

Well-Known Member
RustyOldNail said:
KenZero gave good advice!

Unfortunately, getting accurate results with most chargers that have an IR FUNCTION, is the chargers internals, even the battery sliders, all of which can add resistance, meaning they aren’t very accurate. The next issue is most of these chargers give you a DC result, which is okay, but most battery manufacturers use AC equipment tests, and then publish those numbers in their battery specifications sheets. There is no DC to AC conversions between these two types of measurements. So it’s very difficult to find DC battery specs., so as Ken suggests, you should read a “new” one, same brand and model, and write down your DC results, giving you something to compare to.

I have a MC3000 (a more expensive charger then most) which has the DC IR feature, but I have to play with the sliders, sometimes spin the batteries while in the sliders, and do 3-4 checks each time, and record the lowest number. I also have a separate meter, that directly reads AC IR, at least those results correspond to the battery spec sheets, so I know what range I’m in. I use that after waiting an hour after a full 4.2 volt charge. You don’t want to read a warm battery immediately after a charge, the IR needs to settle.

One simple way to deal with battery health, is to date your batteries, rotate them, and depending on your usage, figure 1-3 years of good life using top shelf batteries like Molicel. DON’T buy cheap “re-wraps”!
Most lithium cylinder batteries have an approximate 300 charge cycles, and 10 year shelf life if stored properly. You’ll probably notice a performance degradation slowly over time, and needing to charge more often, then when they were new. As a mostly inexpensive “fuel”, consider the batteries as a consumable item. I don’t spend much time testing batteries anymore, as I’ll just buy new ones when the date and performance dictates, it’s time. Learning testing is a worthy journey, but in the end, you want to ENJOY your battery device!

Below is a link that explains IR:

batteryuniversity.com

BU-902: How to Measure Internal Resistance

BU meta description needed...
batteryuniversity.com batteryuniversity.com
Click to expand...
Thanks for all of the info, I will probably adopt your battery management system once I figure out which of my batteries are beyond their useful life. Unfortunately, as a stoner, I mixed my batteries up. I am pretty careful with my batteries, so they all look the same. But, I am going to put a sharpie next to my charger and mark them going forward.
 
RustyOldNail

RustyOldNail

SEARCH for the treasure...
In case anyone is interested in an AC IR TESTER:

liionwholesale.com

Vapcell YR1030 Battery Internal Resistance Tester - Genuine

Vapcell YR1030 Tester with probes This is a highly accurate IR meter that tests AC impedance via a 4 wire mechanism and is on par with professional equipment. Much better way to test internal resistance than any charger. This does NOT include a battery holder or clamps. If you need those items...
liionwholesale.com liionwholesale.com

***I own the previous version, works great. You can also TRUST this vendor for name brand batteries!

VAPCELL YR1030 TESTER WITH PROBES​

“This is a highly accurate IR meter that tests AC impedance via a 4 wire mechanism and is on par with professional equipment. Much better way to test internal resistance than any charger.”
 
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