Interesting News, Articles & Stuff

[Rodney]

Ok guys since we are talking about China "somewhat" I wanted to tell you guys about something that happens in church on Sunday and at prayer meetings.

We have a lot of Chinese people who attend the service at our church now these people need to be very careful and stand to the side behind the big pillars because the service is streamed live on YouTube every Sunday and at prayer meetings and the Chinese government use AI to scan and see who is there. They can then have relatives living in china of the people they see at the service thrown out of their position and even imprisoned as in china being a christian (while not illegal) is frowned upon and seen as some western thing.

The Chinese and Iranian people at the service are always careful and have spoke to a few about this and this is why they stay to the side and behind the pillars.

For most people it will not be an issue but for the people who came over here who have family in government positions or other high up positions is an easy way for rivals to have them canceled and lose their social level.

I just thought I would mention it as this is news to some people while i am sure most are well aware of the tactics used by some.

 

[Bazinga]

You can call me thick headed. I need you folks who support the redistribution of wealth that Florduh and others have attempted to us. He has has, I believe good faith, portrayed the details of how this would work. I’m not joking I really to see how this would play out if we went this route. So, please share your thoughts on how this would work.

My friend Florduh decides at a young age to be a Radiologist. He attends a 4 year college to obtain his bachelor's degree. After completion he now attends medical school. Medical school is 4 years, followed by a 1 year internship. So with undergrad and medical school we are up to 9 years of education However, studies have shown that at least 90% of radiology students complete a 4 year fellowship. Florduh, wanting to be thar best radiologist he can takes the fellowship. Now Florduh has spent 13 years of his life obtaining his education.

Let’s omit the cost of undergraduate costs for purposes of this discussion. The average cost of public medical school in field is about $207,000 with the average amount borrowed being about $215,900. Uncertain as to how the average debt is greater than the actual cost but is doesn’t matter for this exercise.

Florduh is now ready to begin his practice. Congratulations to now Dr. Florduh. The good Doc needs equipment. He is an excellent shopper. Costs are as follows:

These are all averages and we will focus on the low end of these averages because as I said the Doc is a savvy shopper.

MRI machine(Used) is somewhere around $500,00. New machines can easily reach 1 million or more. He goes cheap and spends $500,000.

CAT scanner machines can be as cheap $80,000 and purchasing new could set him back $1,000,000. Doc doesn’t want the cheapest (much less features) nor is willing to buy the most expensive. Told you he is smart. He spends $300,000.

XRAY machine costs somewhere form $35,000 to $200,000. Doc gets a great deal and spends $50,000.

Let’s do some math. Where the hell is my calculator. Okay the total sum is about $345,000 lets make it $350,000 for simplicity. In the real world this number would be higher but we can work with these figures. Again, we are omitting any and all costs relating to his undergraduate degree.

Doc Fluduh now has an outstanding loan of $350,000. He finds an office to rent. The office will need least 3 rooms for the equipment and he will need clerical space, locker room, and of course rest rooms. He did not borrow funds for this because all these modifications will be performed by the landlord due to the long term lease agreement.

I finished my required 2 year Associates Degree to be a radiology technician. Dr. Florduh is impressed with me ultimately hires me. I position the patients in the appropriate machine and commence the scan. Of course, I am not a doctor and so I am unable to adequately evaluate the results.

The average annual earnings of a practicing Radiologist is around $400,000 and since the Doc is very talented he generates the $400,000 in his first year.

Here is the big question. How much do I get paid under your share the wealth plan? Kindly ELI5.

 

[florduh]

in china being a christian (while not illegal) is frowned upon and seen as some western thing.

I don't know all the details, but that isn't the only reason. For decades the CIA has used Christian Churches and missionary groups in China as fronts to try and overthrow the government.

Also, your country is currently locking people up for hurting the Most Moral Genocidal Apartheid State's fee-fee's.

27 Arrested for Defying UK Ban on Nonviolent Pro-Palestine Group | Common Dreams

"We oppose genocide—I didn't think that was that controversial—and we support the people who resist genocide," said one arrested protester.

www.commondreams.org

The average cost of public medical school in field is about $207,000

Well let me stop your right there. Under a socialist organization of the economy, Med School would be free. It's free in Cuba. In return, newly minted Cuban doctors are expected to give back to their country and the world.

Cuba Sends Doctors, the US Sends Sanctions

The United States calls Cuba’s medical internationalism

jacobin.com

Hey Bazinga. Since you've been haranguing me about socialism for what feels like a month, can you please defend your Evil Capitalist Government punishing Cuba for offering free healthcare to struggling people around the world?

My friend Florduh decides at a young age to be a Radiologist

A radiologist is a worker. They don't make their money from owning capital. They make their money from working. How are you still not getting this?

How much do I get paid under your share the wealth plan?

I never said a radiologist should make the same exact amount as a radiology tech. I said workers should receive as close to 100% of the additional value they are adding to the enterprise. How many extra patients can the doctor serve by adding an assistant?

This question also lacks any sense because under a socialist organization of the economy, healthcare would be free at the point of service. Same way police, fire, roads etc are.

And I'm honestly less concerned with what a two person "business" does than I am with large multinational corporations. Funny enough, they already act like centrally planned socialist economies.

The People's Republic of Walmart

For the left and the right, major multinational companies are held up as the ultimate expressions of free-market capitalism. Their remarkable success appears to vindicate the old idea that modern society is too complex to be subjected to a plan. And yet, as Leigh Phillips and Michal Rozworski...

www.versobooks.com

I need you folks who support the redistribution of wealth that Florduh and others have attempted to us.

YOU also support redistribution of wealth, Capitalist.

Sanders: 1 Percent Has Sapped $79T in Wealth From Bottom 90 Percent Since 1975

In 2023 alone, $3.9 trillion was sapped from the bottom 90 percent — enough to give every worker a $32,000 raise.

truthout.org

Trump’s “Big Beautiful Bill” Redistributes Wealth From the Poor to the Rich

The CBO has estimated at least 15 million people would lose health care coverage due to the bill’s cuts to Medicaid.

truthout.org

Hey, Capitalist: defend your government murdering thousands of extra people per year to give the wealthy another tax cut. Be brief please.

House Bill Seen Causing 51,000 Preventable Deaths Annually

Health care scientists warm the “One Big Beautiful Bill” will strip health insurance from millions and cause thousands of preventable deaths annually

ldi.upenn.edu

@Bazinga out of curiosity, have you ever posted an interesting article to the Interesting Article thread

 

[vapviking]

You can call me thick headed. I need you folks who support the redistribution of wealth that Florduh and others have attempted to us. He has has, I believe good faith, portrayed the details of how this would work. I’m not joking I really to see how this would play out if we went this route. So, please share your thoughts on how this would work.

Okay, you are thick-headed. You asked for that.
Because you have not responded at all to 2 posts I directed to you yesterday, I will link them here, below.
Respectfully, I think I did, in part, try to explain why you are missing the point.

One highlight was, "You keep trying to see Socialism thrugh a Capitalist lens, like, why Socialism won't work under Capitalism or something."

Link to first

Link to 2nd post

You don't seem to make any allowance for a system other than the Radiologist being an entrepreneur Capitalist confronted with some unfair new parameter (sharing profit?). Maybe he should form a partnership of sorts....hmmm...a collective of radiologists and other medical professionals who all share the burden...maybe they eventually form their own not-for-profit hospital. Hey, baby steps, utopia won't be built in a day.
Please try to see a world that is not just the rugged individual challenged with a survival task, maybe it's people working toward common goals.

Come to recall, the small family owned business I worked for had a profit-sharing plan. Or at least it was called such.

 

[Radwin Bodnic]

@florduh @vapviking

@Bazinga has the impression capitalism served him well.

Didn't need a sociaistic hand out because capitalism and personal drive allowed me secure the American dream.

He can't see that the system is broken from conception because he can't question something that brought him so much wealth. If it is good to him it's necessarily good to everyone.
He can't see that the system benefited him at the expense of others.

Moreover having the illusion of success in the competition gives him a high esteem of himself and a feeling of great personal achievement. Criticizing capitalism equals criticizing his self esteem, which only spiritually elevated individuals are able to.

He absolutely doesn't care that capitalism is destroying our environment and killing peoples, because he had success at it.

Moreover, being a self made man, he can't understand a system based on cooperation.

He is not hard headed, he is brainwashed.

 

[florduh]

"You keep trying to see Socialism thrugh a Capitalist lens, like, why Socialism won't work under Capitalism or something."

This is the chief confusion. I feel like a medieval peasant trying to explain the concept of democracy to a minor baron.

Here is Wolff discussing the concept of democracy in the workplace:

He absolutely doesn't care that capitalism is destroying our environment

Yeah, I didn't even get to that. Even if capitalism was perfectly moral, it is also destroying the planet.

Texas flood highlights deadly climate risk from extreme weather

As climate change increases the frequency of environmental disasters, experts say federal cuts could leave California and other states vulnerable in the years ahead.

www.latimes.com

Another thing I never got to... capitalism, including Woke Nordic Social Democracy, requires the total domination and immiseration of the Global South to survive.

 

[Radwin Bodnic]

capitalism, including Woke Nordic Social Democracy, requires the total domination and immiseration of the Global South environment, animals, children, women and non white, to survive.

Fixed that for you.

 

[florduh]

Fixed that for you.

I agree. But even "kinder" forms of capitalism like they have in Norway, where there's generous social services and high taxes on capitalists... still requires domination of the Global South. This is something the Social Democrats never have an answer for.

And as far as white men go...you're largely right. But I would bet real money that a big percentage of the 50,000+ Americans who will be murdered every year so Elon can get another tax cut will be poor, rural, white men. The very people Trump promised to help in 2016.

 

[Bazinga]

Floriduh said:
Well let me stop your right there. Under a socialist organization of the economy, Med School would be free. It's free in Cuba. In return, newly minted Cuban doctors are expected to give back to their country and the world.

I've stopped. I looked at Cuba's issues many years ago. Then, I don't think it's changed, medical school was not free. Although, it is affordable enough that one may conclude it is essentially free. Doctors don't flock to Cuba to practice medicine. Cuba had to find a way to obtain practicing physicians. They accomplished this by offering pretty much free tuition. Want to move to Cuba?

Floriduh said:
Hey Bazinga. Since you've been haranguing me about socialism for what feels like a month, can you please defend your Evil Capitalist Government punishing Cuba for offering free healthcare to struggling people around the world?

Don't know enough about the issue to properly address it. I'll try to take a look at it.

Floriduh said:
A radiologist is a worker. They don't make their money from owning capital. They make their money from working. How are you still not getting this?

Wait, the owner of the pencil factory doesn't work but the Radiologist does? Look up the meaning of the word "work." Also, go to a manufacturing company and imply to owner or manager that they don't work.

Floriduh said:
YOU also support redistribution of wealth, Capitalist.

I do? Kindly explain. Thanks for appropriately referring to me capitalist. You make it sound like a bad thing.

Floriduh said:
Hey, Capitalist: defend your government murdering thousands of extra people per year to give the wealthy another tax cut. Be brief please.

Brief. I think I'm unable to be brief. Remember I'm nerdy and wordy. I can't answer without additional details. How exactly is this murder of thousands taking place?

Floriduh said:
his question also lacks any sense because under a socialist organization of the economy, healthcare would be free at the point of service. Same way police, fire, roads etc are.

On a tangent here. I like the concept of health care for all. I've been on business to Sweden, Norway, and Denmark. Never made it to the Netherlands. There redistribution of wealth comes from higher taxes. My opinion is that we should try to do something like that here. Remember, the Nordic countries are much smaller and posses a different type of culture.
Back to the subject. How does my question not make sense? I want to know how much should they earn. They have to be paid. You have avoided this question on several occasions by belittling my query and answering "socialism".

Floriduh said:
I never said a radiologist should make the same exact amount as a radiology tech. I said workers should receive as close to 100% of the additional value they are adding to the enterprise

And you still haven't helped me to understand what is 100% of the additional value represents. I'm not asking for an exact number. Your vague statement needs to be less vague.

Floriduh said:
@Bazinga out of curiosity, have you ever posted an interesting article to the Interesting Article thread?

Now you are being blatantly nasty. The answer is yes I have. If I had your temperament I could respond by saying your just to dumb to understand what I am providing. I'm in not inferring this. I do NOT think you are dumb. But personal attacks can lead to ugly exchanges. I refuse to lower myself to your standards.

You have not responded to many of my questions. One being what makes you think I'm white. I understand your answer might upset some people so I withdraw the question.

I'm really surprised at your comment. After all I made you doctor making $400,000 a year !! And I'm also working for you !!

Are we okay?

Vapviking and Bodnic- I have not been avoiding you. I value and appreciate your posts and will share my thoughts soon

 

[florduh]

On a tangent here. I like the concept of health care for all. I've been on business to Sweden, Norway, and Denmark. Never made it to the Netherlands. There redistribution of wealth comes from higher taxes. My opinion is that we should try to do something like that here.

Then what are you arguing with me about? No "Democratic Socialist" politician in America is asking for anything other than expanding the social safety net. Not Bernie, AOC, Zohran any of them. The biggest bit of "socialism" they're asking for is Medicare for All.

I hate to break it to you, Bazinga, but in the context of America in 2025, you're a Democratic Socialist. See you at the meetings, comrade 🫡

Join DSA. Become a member today.

Democratic socialists have an historic opportunity and responsibility to play a central role in continuing the political revolution for the long term. As a democratic, grassroots organization, DSA is prepared to meet this challenge. Become a member today.

act.dsausa.org

We're not anywhere close to moving from a capitalist organization of society to a socialist one (honestly, at this point human civilization is likely to collapse before we get that far). So don't worry about it.

All of your specific questions make about as much sense as me trying to explain Capitalism to a minor Feudal Lord only for him to respond, "how can the serfs seek out 'wage labor', you fool!?! They are tied to the LAND!!!" You're asking about a more advanced mode of production from the perspective of a more primitive mode.

Communism is defined in this context as a stateless, moneyless, classless society. In other words:

 

[Rodney]

I am not as articulate as you guys and do not know the ins and outs of all this but am interested in the discussion and wanted to ask.

Is the problem with capitalism and socialism not the systems themselves but the governments in charge who abuse these systems?

I feel like socialism maybe gets a bad name and seems like a negative thing because the governments like Russia China and north Korea implement these systems in a tyrannical fashion.

@Bazinga when @florduh said ""out of curiosity, have you ever posted an interesting article to the Interesting Article thread?"" He does not mean anything nasty, honestly he is only trying to point out that this thread is for posting interesting articles (links) to interesting news like this

Jury shown CCTV of alleged assault on police at Manchester Airport

The trial of two brothers accused of attacking police hears of a "high level of violence".

www.bbc.co.uk

This is hat this thread is primarily for, then these links generate the conversation

 

[budski]

there are 2 kinds of democrats, people power, you know who they are. and corporate power. we know which side the military brass are on.

 

[florduh]

Russia China and north Korea implement these systems in a tyrannical fashion.

Those countries were all tyrannical pre-socialism too. China and Russia both became less tyrannical post-revolution.

The big problem with every existing/former "communist"/socialist state is... they didn't follow the manual. Russia, China, Korea were all agrarian feudal states. Marx never thought a society could jump from Feudalism to Socialism without a period of Capitalism in between.

Marx believed the Revolution would begin in capitalist Germany, not feudal Russia. Unfortunately, the Germans fucked over the global working class.

Forward without forgetting – 90 years after the German Revolution

In 1918-19 the German workers could have taken power. Had they done so world history would have been very different, as it would have a huge impact on the workers of Europe, thereby breaking the isolation of Soviet Russia and thus stopping the Stalinist degeneration. A genuine international...

marxist.com

After the German Socialists betrayed their Russian brethren, Lenin and the Bolsheviks had a decision. Do they go capitalist for a while, like Marx recommended...or do they attempt "socialism in one state"?

Hindsight is 20/20. But you have to sympathize with Lenin, after overthrowing the brutal feudal tsarist regime, not wanting to subject his people to the boot of Western Capital.

 

[chillAtGVC]

@Rodney The one thing that socialism never addresses, and seems to not understand/consider, is human motivation. Without people being motivated to go to work and then give away the products of their human capital it cannot work. And does not, at least not in any form I'd be willing to live under. The only way forward is then tyranny: work or else! They also fail to understand that capital is not only cash money. We all have what I term human capital: the ability to make something of value from our brains and muscles. Obviously the amount of varies between people. The capitalist system allows people to benefit from the deployment of that capital. Under socialism, the state benefits and reallocates as it sees fit. Your life is not your own.

@Bazinga Don't get too keen on socialized medicine. I am in Canada and I see the result. I'd be interested in what Rodney has to say about the NHS. On the surface, it is wonderful -- need medical treatment and you get it for "free" (you pay for it in taxes if you use it or not). In theory this is basically co-insurance and is good. In practice it results in medical care being rationed because we can't afford the level of taxes that a better level of service would require. This cost pressure also leads to under paying doctors. Shockingly, this leads to not enough doctors. Just try and find a family doctor.

The wait times for many procedures are in years. To even see a specialist is at least months, if not next year or they just drop you from the list until you complain again (speaking from experience). I once waited eight months for an MRI requested by my neurologist. Eight months I was in agony, literally screaming in pain at the nightly peaks, and on strong pain killers. They found a large tumour on my spinal cord and I had emergency surgery two weeks later. I found out later that I could have driven an hour to the USA and had the MRI for a mere $800. An MRI outside of the sanctioned medical system is illegal here. I feel confident that what ever utopia is, this is not it.

This is not to say that the US system is perfect, certainly it is not. But socialized medicine is not either.

 

[florduh]

another guy I've never seen post an interesting article/stuff. Just regurgitated Fox News talking points.

This is not to say that the US system is perfect, certainly it is not. But socialized medicine is not either.

oh, cool if it's all the same I'll go with the one that abolishes medical bankruptcies and doesn't murder tens of thousands of people every year due to being uninsured or underinsured!

Over half a million Americans go bankrupt every year due to medical debt.

Healthcare Insights: How Medical Debt Is Crushing 100 Million Americans

Scheinman Institute Director of Healthcare and Partner Programs John August examines the causes and affects of medical debt on American families.

www.ilr.cornell.edu

Do people in Snow Mexico really think Americans never have to wait for a specialist and can always find a primary care physician

 

[JBone65]

I hate to break it to you, Bazinga, but in the context of America in 2025, you're a Democratic Socialist. See you at the meetings, comrade 🫡

IMO this country was moving toward healthy Democratic socialism. No one should be ashamed of wanting a social safety net or caring for the disadvantaged. A social safety net is nothing like socialism, that's propaganda for the masses so they will vote against their own interests (and give up representation for all of us).

We all see selfish people that justify a total lack of empathy with political theory. IMO the EU did a much better job of it than we did, and they're not going bankrupt like we are.

On a side note, my old buddy of 49 years passed away at the end of May. He was worth an estimated $400-500M and he never gave away a nickel unless he had to. I listened to him complain when his tax rate went up and his ~10 employees got slightly better insurance. He eventually fired all of his remaining original employees because they cost too much. Being important, racking up the highest possible NPV, and getting the latest Gulfstream was all he cared about. His lifestyle wouldn't have changed with a slightly higher tax rate.

The only people that benefit from our predatory economy, relaxed labor laws, and low tax rates are the super wealthy. They effectively bought the governmental representation we lost.

 

[florduh]

Americans like what Democratic Socialists are proposing (though many are still scared of the "socialism" word).

Poll: Zohran Mamdani's policies are popular with Americans outside New York — even if Mamdani is not

A new Yahoo/YouGov survey finds that about twice as many U.S. adults say they would vote for a candidate with Mamdani’s platform (50%) than say they would not (26%). Could it be a blueprint for Democrats elsewhere?

www.yahoo.com

Nationally - Net Support For Mamdani's Policies:

Raises Taxes On Corporations/Millionaires: +43%
Free Child Care For Children Under 5 Years: +38%
Freezing Rent For Lower-Income Tenants: +38%
Government-Owned Grocery Stores: +20%
Eliminating Fares On Public Buses: +10%
Raise minimum wage to $30 by 2030: +15%

His lifestyle wouldn't have changed with a slightly higher tax rate.

No offense to your late buddy, but the top tax rate should return to what it was in the 1950's. The days MAGA pines for. 90% on every dollar earned after ~$3-4 million

 

[Radwin Bodnic]

The one thing that socialism never addresses, and seems to not understand/consider, is human motivation. Without people being motivated to go to work and then give away the products of their human capital it cannot work.

In a capitalist system, what motivates an industry worker to do 50hrs a week in a scorching hot factory ?
His 7$ per hour wage barely allow him to survive but he needs it not to fall into poverty, unemployment and homelessness. And when health issue kicks in (fairly early amongst industry workers), he won't be able to cover the medical expense and fall into poverty, unemployment and homelessness anyway.

Now tell him in a socialist system he'd do less hours and get profit sharing, free healthcare, affordable car and housing, free studies for his children, what do your think he choose ?

I guess die hard capitalists never really sweated at work.

Is the problem with capitalism and socialism not the systems themselves but the governments in charge who abuse these systems?

The problem is oligarchy and domination. Capitalism is a system of domination (profit hoarding) so it will always be inequitable. Socialism is a system of cooperation. Its good operation depends on the elimination of any system of elites beforehand. (And not replacing it with other elites).

Communism is defined in this context as a stateless, moneyless, classless society. In other words:

 

[vapviking]

We now know -- thanks to University research -- what is happening to the honeybees.
“It was only a matter of time before widespread resistance to amitraz, the only remaining effective synthetic chemical, would develop,”

Due to government staffing cuts, the USDA team were unable to analyse pesticides in the hives and asked bee experts at Cornell University to carry out the research
(Okay, so what will happen when the gov't grinds the educational and research facilities to a pulp?)

‘Could become a death spiral’: scientists discover what’s driving record die-offs of US honeybees

Experts scrambling to understand losses in hives across the country are finally identifying the culprits. And the damage to farmed bees is a sign of trouble for wild bees too

www.theguardian.com

 

[macbill]

MAGA Meltdown Gets Worse as Trump Flips on Ukraine Aid

First Jeffrey Epstein, and now Ukraine—Trump is infuriating some of his biggest supporters.

newrepublic.com

 

[florduh]

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, and steps like a goose....

Defense minister: Israel to concentrate all Gaza population in Rafah 'humanitarian' zone

***

www.haaretz.com

 

[Bazinga]

Also, you're wrong. Worker's cooperatives have existed for centuries.

‘In the US they think we’re communists!’ The 70,000 workers showing the world another way to earn a living

The Basque Country’s Mondragón Corporation is the globe’s largest industrial co-operative, with workers paying for the right to share in its profits – and its losses. In return for giving more to their employer, they expect more back

www.theguardian.com

LOL "Son of a millionaire becomes a millionaire, details at 11"

You are so out of touch it's incredible. I would've given my left nut to have my daddy write a check for my college, lol. Holy shit.



LOL all of that automation is taking place UNDER CAPITALISM. YOU ARE MAKING MY POINT FOR ME. McDonalds doesn't have to "share the profits" but they're still finding ways to dick over workers.

Don't get me wrong, I love automation!

I was aware of the cooperatives that exist. What I wasn't aware of is the number of them. More than I thought. Thank you providing that link. I was looking at the issue from the Macro point of view. I've stated that having food co-ops in food desert may work. Something has to be done to need to be done to help those folks. I've already said that some of the socialistic concepts in the Nordic countries work well. Do some research (you're really good at that) and you'll find (not my words I copied them) that "Nordic countries are capitalist, but they operate under a mixed-market system known as the Nordic model, which combines free-market capitalism with robust social welfare programs. They are not socialist economies in the traditional sense." Socialism on the macro level has failed everywhere and would destroy this county as it has destroyed others.

Florduh said:
I just want to say, I meant no offense to your son. As a Millennial Supremacist, I like it when one of us gets their bread! (Unless he's like a weapons dealer or something

No offense taken. I should mention my other son as well. Graduated with a degree in International Business from McGill University In Montreal. (Wouldn't attend graduate school stating that it's a scam and unnecessary). Was published at the early age of 19. Lived in Prague for a short time. Lived in the Soviet Union while studying at the University of St. Petersb urg. Speaks fluent Russian. Been to Turkey at least a dozen times. Has been on MSNBC, written for the Wall Street Journal. Conducted and researched business and economies of various countries. He consults for Microsoft, Coca Cola and others companies as well. Some of his consulting fees are more than I ever expected. He is not in favor of communism or total socialism so now I will await the deluge of negative comments about his success.

Florduh said:
You are so out of touch it's incredible. I would've given my left nut to have my daddy write a check for my college, lol. Holy shit.

I'm out of touch? You apparently have no clue. I'm sorry that your Dad was unable to help you. I mean that. Most parents would help if they could. So was I wrong that I didn't want my kids to suffer like I did? I'm glad I could help and overly thrilled with the results.

 

[florduh]

The biggest teachers' union in the country cuts all ties with the Apartheid Defense League over the organization's dishonest conflation of antisemitism with criticism of Israel.

Educators Union Rejects Anti-Defamation League, Cuts Ties

The Anti-Defamation League has been a ubiquitous presence in U.S. schools for forty years, pushing curriculum, direct programming, and teacher training into K-12 schools and increasingly into universities, often over the objections of students, parents, and educators. Now, the three...

labornotes.org

I think this was the ADL's death knell:

ADL defends Elon Musk over ‘awkward gesture’ at Trump inauguration: ‘Not a Nazi salute’

“It seems that [Musk] made an awkward gesture in a moment of enthusiasm, not a Nazi salute,” the antisemitism watchdog wrote on X.

nypost.com

 

[Bazinga]

No, I think he suggested that people involved are neither employee nor employer. All are owners, kinda like a co-op apartment building.

Okay, no problem.

You keep trying to see Socialism thrugh a Capitalist lens, like, why Socialism won't work under Capitalism or something.

You allow that this American Dream thing has worked great for you, and I guess your son, and that business people at some "small business" level are justified in having the world by the balls; hey, they earned it! You say.

But you also think anything those BIG Coporations do to dehumanize their labor is unfair (you add a disclaimer, 'that's not me, that's a whole other level I'm not as familiar with.". Who draws the line between theses two, between the upper middle class and the elite weathy class?

You ask for examples of a functional Socialiist country. It is not hard to see some flaw in any one of the choices.
But ask the same question about functional Capitalist country, and I predict your answer would be to just look how successful the US is, to which I would ask, "by what measure?" And by what means?

Well, I am a capitalist so I cannot look at the issue as if I were a socialist. However, I do my best to look at it objectively. I do this by compiling data. Compiling is simply gathering, organizing, and arranging information from various sources to create a unified, usable frame of reference. Then, tying my best to be unbiased, I should be capable of reaching a conclusion based on facts and not the feelings expressed by those who are attempting to take a position without really devoting the effort to look at the facts. Here's an example (maybe not the best one) that will hopefully help. A while ago Israel was accused of bombing a hospital in Gaza where 500 or so civilians perished. If I said (and I'm not) that the reason it was bombed was because the hospital was hiding Hamas and weapons. You might respond well tell that to the victims and their families. Look at it from their point of view. I'd say I'd rather look at the facts. While I'd agree you and have sympathy for those affected I'd have to compile the data before I can comment. And you know what, at the end of the day, it was in fact Hamas who bombed the hospital.

Who draws the line between theses two, between the upper middle class and the elite weathy class?

I have no idea. Does a line need to be drawn and for what reason?

You ask for examples of a functional Socialiist country. It is not hard to see some flaw in any one of the choices.
But ask the same question about functional Capitalist country, and I predict your answer would be to just look how successful the US is, to which I would ask, "by what measure?" And by what means?

We agree no form of governance is perfect. The US has, in fact, been successful. I agree that some of the ways this has been achieved is unconscionable. I propose that we (our fellow citizens) make our current system better rather then discarding it and moving to a system that would destroy our country as it has destroyed others. Success shouldn't be expected to came from the government forcing us to share wealth or giving handouts. At the end of the day show me what fully socialistic wealth distribution country that is better. There are some people who are unable to work (that are ill, handicapped, etc) . There is a safety net for them (and it arguably it could be better) . The able body people should perhaps get some training and get a job. Again, I'm just asking to provide the name of a socialist wealth sharing country that is more successful than a capitalistic one. I haven't seen one.

My son who lived and studied in the Soviet Union provided information that is readily available:
1. It's estimated that around 40% of the entire population (Soviet Union)was classified as poor.
2. Even with the official figures, millions of families lived below the poverty line, and a large percentage of the population struggled to make ends meet.
3. While the Soviet system aimed for egalitarianism, there was still a significant gap between the living standards of the elite and the average citizen.
4. Even with the official figures, millions of families lived below the poverty line, and a large percentage of the population struggled to make ends meet.

You are free to dispute these facts. At the same time ask yourself why do so many Russians come here while we don't see a an exodus of USA folks moving to Russia.

And don't even think of looking at Venezuela.

Can't we just improve on capitalism? Isn't this a better approach?

As always, one last thing. The offer is open to anyone to provide the name of country that has implemented full socialism and where citizens are better off. As I said, I haven't seen one. Doesn't mean there aren't any. This would certainly enhance your position and give us a change to explore the situation further.

I know - nerdy and wordy. Guilty !!

 

[sedentree]

Okay, no problem.

Well, I am a capitalist so I cannot look at the issue as if I were a socialist. However, I do my best to look at it objectively. I do this by compiling data. Compiling is simply gathering, organizing, and arranging information from various sources to create a unified, usable frame of reference. Then, tying my best to be unbiased, I should be capable of reaching a conclusion based on facts and not the feelings expressed by those who are attempting to take a position without really devoting the effort to look at the facts. Here's an example (maybe not the best one) that will hopefully help. A while ago Israel was accused of bombing a hospital in Gaza where 500 or so civilians perished. If I said (and I'm not) that the reason it was bombed was because the hospital was hiding Hamas and weapons. You might respond well tell that to the victims and their families. Look at it from their point of view. I'd say I'd rather look at the facts. While I'd agree you and have sympathy for those affected I'd have to compile the data before I can comment. And you know what, at the end of the day, it was in fact Hamas who bombed the hospital.

Who draws the line between theses two, between the upper middle class and the elite weathy class?

I have no idea. Does a line need to be drawn and for what reason?

You ask for examples of a functional Socialiist country. It is not hard to see some flaw in any one of the choices.
But ask the same question about functional Capitalist country, and I predict your answer would be to just look how successful the US is, to which I would ask, "by what measure?" And by what means?

We agree no form of governance is perfect. The US has, in fact, been successful. I agree that some of the ways this has been achieved is unconscionable. I propose that we (our fellow citizens) make our current system better rather then discarding it and moving to a system that would destroy our country as it has destroyed others. Success shouldn't be expected to came from the government forcing us to share wealth or giving handouts. At the end of the day show me what fully socialistic wealth distribution country that is better. There are some people who are unable to work (that are ill, handicapped, etc) . There is a safety net for them (and it arguably it could be better) . The able body people should perhaps get some training and get a job. Again, I'm just asking to provide the name of a socialist wealth sharing country that is more successful than a capitalistic one. I haven't seen one.

My son who lived and studied in the Soviet Union provided information that is readily available:
1. It's estimated that around 40% of the entire population (Soviet Union)was classified as poor.
2. Even with the official figures, millions of families lived below the poverty line, and a large percentage of the population struggled to make ends meet.
3. While the Soviet system aimed for egalitarianism, there was still a significant gap between the living standards of the elite and the average citizen.
4. Even with the official figures, millions of families lived below the poverty line, and a large percentage of the population struggled to make ends meet.

You are free to dispute these facts. At the same time ask yourself why do so many Russians come here while we don't see a an exodus of USA folks moving to Russia.

And don't even think of looking at Venezuela.

Can't we just improve on capitalism? Isn't this a better approach?

As always, one last thing. The offer is open to anyone to provide the name of country that has implemented full socialism and where citizens are better off. As I said, I haven't seen one. Doesn't mean there aren't any. This would certainly enhance your position and give us a change to explore the situation further.

I know - nerdy and wordy. Guilty !!

I presume you are still yet to look objectively at the article I shared previously?

Original post in this thread:

https://fuckcombustion.com/threads/interesting-news-articles-stuff.49189/post-1854142

The article again:

3 Arguments Against Socialism And Why They Fail

Why common talking points about socialism are silly…

www.currentaffairs.org

This article a) posits USSR was not a socialist country (and neither was Venezuela) much like the Democratic Republic of North Korea is not a democratic country and b) presents an example of socialist success in Bolivia and also includes examples within the USA