FROLIC by Limelight Herb

MHL

Try hard noob
I just love the wood and steel look. Can't say why. Probably something cheesy about getting back to nature, or being "classy".

Personally, I like the flavour of the Firewood, but I can see why people prefer the purity of a glass airpath. It's objectively better... I mean, the TM2 is a flavour machine. The TM2 and the Firewood are my 2 favourite devices, hands down. But their finish does look pretty rustic compared to limelight's stuff, which is more refined and polished.
 

Dejan LimelightHerb

Member
Manufacturer
I just wanted to get something out of the way.

I am here to argue, but in a positive way, others have some arguments, I have some, then something good comes out of it hopefully, if not, still all good. I have no personal agenda against anyone. I am not here so push or sell anything, that’s not my job.

Second, I am not deliberately withholding information on the Frolic, I simply don’t want to share anything until production is well on the way next week and I can 100% stand behind everything said.

And finally, I apologize in advance but my short period with some free time is over so as much as I enjoy chatting with likeminded people, I might not be as active here.

Again, thank you for the engagement and the support!
 

Dejan LimelightHerb

Member
Manufacturer
I agree with you and I love seeing new devices in the market. What you've shared all sounds great. My point was only that at full price it's a lot of money (for me personally) to be an early adopter without seeing real user feedback first. You're not discounting the first batch, correct?
All guinea pigs 🤣 will get a discount for sure mate!
 

Dejan LimelightHerb

Member
Manufacturer
I would definitely like something like this. If I can have a glass accessory that connects directly to the oven that would allow me to attach a J-Hook, or use it with a water piece. If possible, I think including that as standard would help sales at the premium price level this is at.

I hope all other DHV manufacturers take note at how Dejan is interacting with this forum. So many others have come in here spewing a line a meaningless hype for their products and get an instant cold reaction from folks here, then just disappear having not answered any meaningful questions. Dejan is actually asking for useful feedback, and isn't hiding the things we want to know about the vape. This is the smart move to make.

It also implies, to me, that this is a company that actually cares about what the potential customers really want. I think I may need to start saving up for this vape. It would be about twice the money I've ever spent on a vape before, but if this is the right choice for me, I'd really love to have a high end vape!


I love this idea. Though I actually like how it looks currently, and don't know that I would feel the need for a wooden body. It's still always a good thing to have options!
Thanks 2Tiki!

But no, no accessories will be included in the package, this has been decided already because we would receive backlash about pushing more stuff not everyone needs to gauge the price, but all accessories will be affordable and accessible and bundable with the Frolic, so one will always be able to tailor the package to one’s needs and get a good deal on it.
 

Dejan LimelightHerb

Member
Manufacturer
FYI since you are new to FC (welcome!) and looks like still pending approval for the commercial account as manufacturer, just wanted to let you know that you probably should be careful with comments like this:




Manufacturers here are not really supposed to be talking about competitor products, especially with a negative lens, especially in this thread of yours... (one of the reasons not to mention it is because it invites responses that venture off topic defending the other product back and forth, like this:

Just for the record, I consider my TM2 extremely polished compared to the originals, I think the latest is even better... Great fit and finish now. Also I enjoy perfect flavor from mine, using simple glass pathways, there's actually no wood in the vapor path (possibly slightly in the air path? Certainly don't taste it, only possibly with other woods like the previous oak but not the current walnut and certainly not after broken in...) so I'm just saying TM is still considered top tier in all categories by most, though it's not for everyone, and individual unit differs depending when it was bought, but still entitled to your opinion of course.

Anyway good luck finalizing the product and launching! Always good to see new stuff :tup:
Ha, I commented before I received a manufacturer status, so guess that comment counts as my personal 😆

In all seriousness though, this came out wrong, I simply stated I was appalled because as I have later learned, standards in the vape industry and the dry herb industry vastly differ.

Something that would be considered sub standard or better yet a reject with vape mods, here is considered high end. But you also said there is basically no standard or QC involved here so that might have had something to do with my opinion.

Anyway. Note taken and I will zip it, you made a good point.

P.S. roughly 40% of the vapor path is wood.

Also thanks a lot. Hope I give you something to look forward to!
 

Dejan LimelightHerb

Member
Manufacturer
Find this project really interesting, thanks for more infos @Dejan LimelightHerb
A discount (code) for the first badge, next to the 2week period would make this really intrigueing (:
Am not sure I've read anything about dimensions and weight.
Wonder if its standard cooling capability is anything close to, let's say the Venty's. I totally don't mind the maze-cooling - isobath, shake, qtip and good to go, in my experience.

However, looking forward to the announced video and more info on this interesting development!
Yes I have mentioned this, there will be a discount involved. Although we haven’t formed the precise price just yet because I always do this at the very last moment but we are almost there.

Glad to hear you agree, as long as the cooler is easy to disassemble, there are no custom seals involved, it’s robust enough and made from the right materials, I don’t see an issue here.

Not going to compare, but I will say you will be more than happy with the cooling.
 

Dejan LimelightHerb

Member
Manufacturer
@Dejan LimelightHerb Thanks for all the great info on this device.

I believe the S&B Venty is around 80/20, as is the Arizer Solo 3. The Angus Enhanced probably is too (just judging from using it).

The Venty is PEEK not Polycarbonate.
Welcome!

May I know where this information comes from? Venty is around 50/50 actually. Solo with the MCH heater roughly the same and the Angus actually makes sense to be around 80/20 this is correct.

Again, may I know where this information is from? The body and the cooler parts are PC or PETG. This is actually embossed in the molding process on some units. Hence the taste…
 
Dejan LimelightHerb,
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Dejan LimelightHerb

Member
Manufacturer
That is how I feel any of those percentage metrics are actually weighed, there isn't much science in my mind that indicates any of them are actually accurate % and it can depend how you use them (it's marketing)
This is actually the main science behind a herb vaporizer mate. But you are absolutely correct this isn’t a precise ratio, because there are many variables but this defines the subjective feel you get from a draw.

With that said, thank you for the eye opening comment, I will actually change this claim to “1/4 to 3/4 conduction to convection ratio”

This is exactly why I am here, thank you again, appreciate it!
 

SolidAirrr

Well-Known Member
Thanks for all your replies and the interaction in general. What I'd also hope to be comparable is the MPs size, as I think s+b kinda nailed it there (for me at least).

But surprised you still didn't mention dimensions yet. If it's that close to finish (as it sounds) I guess those are fixed by now...
Anyway, looking more forward to a video and start of sale especially.


P.S. roughly 40% of the vapor path is wood
I think here might be a wording problem. I guess you're talking about the whole path air takes through the unit (air- and vaporpath). In that way it'd make sense to me as the air passes through the top holes, along the wooden body, reaches the heater (no more wood from here on) and travels up again.


With that said, thank you for the eye opening comment, I will actually change this claim to “1/4 to 3/4 conduction to convection ratio”
I've always found discussion on 'pure convection' funny. If that'd be the case on any device its parts, let's say the chamber, would have to be wayyy below the set temperature right after a pull. It's super obvious that they're always kinda hot. So, I think it's ridiculous to call any device 'pure' or even 'mostly convection' that gets used for multiple draws (especially).
 
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Dejan LimelightHerb

Member
Manufacturer
Thanks for all your replies and the interaction in general. What I'd also hope to be comparable is the MPs size, as I think s+b kinda nailed it there (for me at least).

But surprised you still didn't mention dimensions yet. If it's that close to finish (as it sounds) I guess those are fixed by now...
Anyway, looking more forward to a video and start of sale especially.



I think here might be a wording problem. I guess you're talking about the whole path air takes through the unit (air- and vaporpath). In that way it'd make sense to me as the air passes through the top holes, along the wooden body, reaches the heater (no more wood from here on) and travels up again.



I've always found discussion on 'pure convection' funny. If that'd be the case on any device its parts, let's say the chamber, would have to be wayyy below the set temperature right after a pull. It's super obvious that they're always kinda hot. So, I think it's ridiculous to call any device 'pure' or even 'mostly convection' that gets used for multiple draws (especially).
I didn’t disclose any specs for the reason I mentioned. It’s 105x63x24mm.

Yes, got you now, we are on the same page.

And yes exactly what you said!
 

NightMoonWolf

The Vaped One
George-the-amazing-guinea-pig-1.jpg
 

chillAtGVC

Well-Known Member
Welcome!
May I know where this information comes from? Venty is around 50/50 actually. Solo with the MCH heater roughly the same and the Angus actually makes sense to be around 80/20 this is correct.
Just one of them, "Equipped with cutting-edge Instant Heating Ceramic Convection Technology, the Solo III heats up in 5-15 seconds and heats botanicals more evenly with a finely-tuned hybrid heat ratio of 80% Convection, 20% Conduction."

Again, may I know where this information is from? The body and the cooler parts are PC or PETG. This is actually embossed in the molding process on some units. Hence the taste…
According to the S&B website, the Mighty is made of PEEK. I believe the Venty is made of the same material. Buzz does too:
"The outer shell is made from medical-grade PEEK plastic and does a good job of cooling the unit down while in use."
 
chillAtGVC,
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Radwin Bodnic

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
@Dejan LimelightHerb
I think you broke a few rules here, specifically the manufacturers rules, and our moderators are rather strict about enforcing these.

That said, I think your input can be very valuable to our community, so I hope you'll stick around !

To be fair, I exclusively use low tech vaporizers, so I'm not really into your kind of devices. But I try to stay updated about the high tech sphere and to read the related threads. IMHO your background and approach are very different from what we usually see in this space and I think this is great to enrich our debates and experiences. Welcome on FC !

I'm really looking forward for our members reviewing your device as I value their reports thousands time more than any vape reviewer influencer.
 

666Honeybadger

Unknown member
Yes there is a labyrinth I will show it. How would you usually clean these? I dip them in hot water or alcohol then wipe and rinse off. The only thing I found to be negative on such styles are custom seals which we avoided and used only Viton standard orings

For me the negative on that style is the form factor i guess?
I find it hard to clean (and keep clean), they usually imply some disassembling (maybe yours doesn't?) for cleaning and tend to have fiddly parts with nooks and crannies that are hard to clean and clog easily (again, maybe the Frolick mp is different in that regard?).
I much prefer the style where the cooling is optional and happens in the stem (in various ways, balls, spirals, bolts,...) because that offers more custom choices (which can affect draw resistance, taste, level of cooling,...)
Another benefit is that it allows to skip all cooling aids when hitting it on a bong/bubbler/J-hook.

Thats what i love in stem-loaded devices: they are very modular (bowl-size, choice of stem, custom cooling), loading/unloading is a breeze and they are very easy to keep clean.

If i'm honest i have to admit that i passed on a couple of devices just because of the used mp-style: i really hate disassembling fiddly plastic parts to clean and ime the reclaim gets everywhere in such labyrinths, affecting taste and draw and making it hard (to impossible) to get completely clean.

The mouthpieces are Ultem which we have used for years on vaping products with 0 issues. But again, thanks for the feedback, what would be your preferred material of choice?

Personally i would always opt for glass and/or titanium/SS for vapor path and mp.
For the mouthfeel, the purity of taste, the easy cleaning.
I prefer a system where i can have a couple of stems/mouthpieces (preferably with build in bowl) that are easily interchangeable, easy to disassemble/clean and don't clog with reclaim after a couple of bowls...


There is also a possibility to make an accessory which connects the oven directly without the cooler. Would this be something interesting to look into?

Yes, definitely very interesting! That would add a lot of versatility to the device for sure! Make it available for use on a hook or a waterpiece.

As said by others: i too would prefer a design that involves some wood, especially when i see some of the nicotine vapes in your line-up. A couple of gorgeous looking devices there!
So yeah: very interested in seeing the breakdown of the device and learning more about it in general.
Very curious to see the production model and its performance!
I love the fact that you are here, listening to our input and being open to suggestions!
That can only benefit the end-result!
Good luck!!
 

Dejan LimelightHerb

Member
Manufacturer
@Dejan LimelightHerb
I think you broke a few rules here, specifically the manufacturers rules, and our moderators are rather strict about enforcing these.

That said, I think your input can be very valuable to our community, so I hope you'll stick around !

To be fair, I exclusively use low tech vaporizers, so I'm not really into your kind of devices. But I try to stay updated about the high tech sphere and to read the related threads. IMHO your background and approach are very different from what we usually see in this space and I think this is great to enrich our debates and experiences. Welcome on FC !

I'm really looking forward for our members reviewing your device as I value their reports thousands time more than any vape reviewer influencer.
I understand and will agree to anything the moderators decide, after all this is their house in which I am a mere guest.

I hope I was clear to why I said what I said, that matters more.

Also thank you!

For me the negative on that style is the form factor i guess?
I find it hard to clean (and keep clean), they usually imply some disassembling (maybe yours doesn't?) for cleaning and tend to have fiddly parts with nooks and crannies that are hard to clean and clog easily (again, maybe the Frolick mp is different in that regard?).
I much prefer the style where the cooling is optional and happens in the stem (in various ways, balls, spirals, bolts,...) because that offers more custom choices (which can affect draw resistance, taste, level of cooling,...)
Another benefit is that it allows to skip all cooling aids when hitting it on a bong/bubbler/J-hook.

Thats what i love in stem-loaded devices: they are very modular (bowl-size, choice of stem, custom cooling), loading/unloading is a breeze and they are very easy to keep clean.

If i'm honest i have to admit that i passed on a couple of devices just because of the used mp-style: i really hate disassembling fiddly plastic parts to clean and ime the reclaim gets everywhere in such labyrinths, affecting taste and draw and making it hard (to impossible) to get completely clean.



Personally i would always opt for glass and/or titanium/SS for vapor path and mp.
For the mouthfeel, the purity of taste, the easy cleaning.
I prefer a system where i can have a couple of stems/mouthpieces (preferably with build in bowl) that are easily interchangeable, easy to disassemble/clean and don't clog with reclaim after a couple of bowls...




Yes, definitely very interesting! That would add a lot of versatility to the device for sure! Make it available for use on a hook or a waterpiece.

As said by others: i too would prefer a design that involves some wood, especially when i see some of the nicotine vapes in your line-up. A couple of gorgeous looking devices there!
So yeah: very interested in seeing the breakdown of the device and learning more about it in general.
Very curious to see the production model and its performance!
I love the fact that you are here, listening to our input and being open to suggestions!
That can only benefit the end-result!
Good luck!!
Thanks for taking the time to explain this in detail. As I said. The device itself is pretty much set and in manufacturing. The only reason I am not disclosing the full specs is as I mentioned before, that there are like 2 small details which will be determined in the following days and I didn’t want to post anything before everything is confirmed.

What you said makes perfect sense and you have a very good point here. Stems are interchangeable as is and water attachments available in standard sizes which easily pop into the cooler.

I had the idea of providing the direct oven to output attachment before so exactly what you said, without the cooler, but was advised it’s unnecessary. You also confirm this is a good idea as well as a few other members, so consider this added to the list of accessories, I have already CADded it and it will be produced.

Btw, we have made the attachments in 14mm and 18mm sizes, would you advise of broadening the list?

Again, appreciate your time and help!
 

SolidAirrr

Well-Known Member
Even though I'm not really into water attachments, I think the versatility of being able to attach without the MP is really great and has those mentioned cleaning advantages.
Not sure whether you meant that/if it's already done but being able to attach 12mm od stems would surely be a huge thing for many.

As I imagine the round disc on top being for different airflows, I noticed it doesn't have any groves in the pictures, which would probably make handling easier. But maybe that's just due to prototype status...
Thinking of that made me wonder how the MP is held in place. Magnetically?
 
SolidAirrr,

KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
I believe the need for high surface area to achieve true convection is a myth. The Imp and Impcognito are proof of that: they just use two tiny e-cig-style clapton coils in parallel in a small confined space with careful intake airflow control. I built dozens of equivalent 510 custom attys, all convection, it's not rocket science. And if you say oven conduction heaters are like the wheel, then convection heaters are just mere hair driers...

Log vapes of old times (as well as some present ones) used simple ceramic cartridge heaters similar to soldering irons and were already convection. You could argue that there might be some radiation heating involved, but if @OF was still around he would surely tell its contribution is negligible at best.

Now we can debate about regulation schemes and dynamics under heavy loads, where there's a real topic. But to put it simply: the Zion then Milaana were amongst the first high surface area heater vapes on the market, but their beefy heaters had a lot of inertia and slow reaction times. This was perfect to cope with their unregulated nature, making them much more forgiving. But Ryan shrank their size in the Splinter, which was more likely to be used regulated on a proper mod and it still worked like a charm.

I would not dare using the Impcognito in power mode, as it would be a nightmare to regulate by hand and prevent scorching, but having a very small yet super reactive heating element works like wonder in temperature control mode. It adapts near instantly to your draw speed and you can watch the amps draw climb and dip in real-time, as there's close to no lag.

That being said, if the intent is to pair the vape with a large water piece and the user is more into lung-busting elephant rips, then yes having a larger mass acting as a heat reservoir is interesting (cf. the ball vapes trend), as smaller heaters can be overwhelmed in that case, despite the regulation. But I'm personally more interested in stealth and easy to carry when it comes to my portable vapes. And at home, where your glass pieces usually reside... well you can always use a plug-in "desktop" vape, instead of messing around with batteries and constant charging / swapping...
 

Dejan LimelightHerb

Member
Manufacturer
Thanks.
Even though I'm not really into water attachments, I think the versatility of being able to attach without the MP is really great and has those mentioned cleaning advantages.
Not sure whether you meant that/if it's already done but being able to attach 12mm od stems would surely be a huge thing for many.

As I imagine the round disc on top being for different airflows, I noticed it doesn't have any groves in the pictures, which would probably make handling easier. But maybe that's just due to prototype status...
Thinking of that made me wonder how the MP is held in place. Magnetically?
12mm noted, we will make a final decision on this!

Prototype and render mate not the final design no worries about this.

MP, oring. Same as on vape mods.
 
Dejan LimelightHerb,

Dejan LimelightHerb

Member
Manufacturer
I believe the need for high surface area to achieve true convection is a myth. The Imp and Impcognito are proof of that: they just use two tiny e-cig-style clapton coils in parallel in a small confined space with careful intake airflow control. I built dozens of equivalent 510 custom attys, all convection, it's not rocket science. And if you say oven conduction heaters are like the wheel, then convection heaters are just mere hair driers...

Log vapes of old times (as well as some present ones) used simple ceramic cartridge heaters similar to soldering irons and were already convection. You could argue that there might be some radiation heating involved, but if @OF was still around he would surely tell its contribution is negligible at best.

Now we can debate about regulation schemes and dynamics under heavy loads, where there's a real topic. But to put it simply: the Zion then Milaana were amongst the first high surface area heater vapes on the market, but their beefy heaters had a lot of inertia and slow reaction times. This was perfect to cope with their unregulated nature, making them much more forgiving. But Ryan shrank their size in the Splinter, which was more likely to be used regulated on a proper mod and it still worked like a charm.

I would not dare using the Impcognito in power mode, as it would be a nightmare to regulate by hand and prevent scorching, but having a very small yet super reactive heating element works like wonder in temperature control mode. It adapts near instantly to your draw speed and you can watch the amps draw climb and dip in real-time, as there's close to no lag.

That being said, if the intent is to pair the vape with a large water piece and the user is more into lung-busting elephant rips, then yes having a larger mass acting as a heat reservoir is interesting (cf. the ball vapes trend), as smaller heaters can be overwhelmed in that case, despite the regulation. But I'm personally more interested in stealth and easy to carry when it comes to my portable vapes. And at home, where your glass pieces usually reside... well you can always use a plug-in "desktop" vape, instead of messing around with batteries and constant charging / swapping...
I tend not to go into people’s personal beliefs and to respect them, each to their own.

I am an engineer and believe in science, but respect if others don’t.

I thank you for insight into using a ball vape at home and stealth out and about that makes sense for many.

Also since I come from 510 mods and atties and am set on making a 510 herb atomizer at one point, I will dig deeper into the devices you mentioned, I only had a glance.

Ah, meant the CU.
Any estimate on when the aforementioned video can be expected? :popcorn:
I need to detail that bit in the mentioned video. I will do my best to have it posted next week. 🙂
 
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Andreaerdna

If God is the answer, then the question is wrong
I'm also an engineer. And what you dismiss as personal beliefs is actually hands-on real experience.

But good luck with your endeavour!

I too have an IMP. It works well if you are very slow at inhaling, pulsing the inhalation while keeping the coil running was my way to use it.
if I try to rip it, it is overwhelmed by too much cold air and I get hot air instead of vapor (dna battery, regulated). I recon it is not my preferred vape, I prefer Iheat in that kind of form factor (which has a larger surface heater), even if it is less stealth

Besides my own experience, which is not so relevant, i think we can all agree that a large surface area gives the heater the capacity to heat the air better than a smaller one, without the need for sipping in order to get vapor or the need for the heater to be red hot and glowing (which for me is a concern) to deliver, it is basic physics…

I am intrigued by frolick, even more if it is cheaper than TM
 
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marduk

daydreamer
I am intrigued by frolick, even more if it is cheaper than TM

If the Frolic works well and is priced correctly, IMHO the sales of that other vape are going to plummet when word gets out. Unless it gets a significant price cut.

As an aside, can a mod edit the title of this thread? Frolick to Frolic please...
 
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