PG UPDATE- TOXIC

KeroZen

KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
In pure form not, but (quoting wikipedia) :

"Vodka (from Russian: водка [ˈvotkə]) is a distilled beverage composed primarily of water and ethanol, but sometimes with traces of impurities and flavorings. (...)

Since the 1890s, the standard Polish, Russian, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Estonian, Latvian, Lithuanian and Czech vodkas are 40% ABV or alcohol by volume (80 US proof) (...) Meanwhile, the European Union has established a minimum of 37.5% ABV for any "European vodka" to be named as such. Products sold as "vodka" in the United States must have a minimum alcohol content of 40%. Even with these loose restrictions, most vodka sold contains 40% ABV."

Obviously not the same ABV that we enjoy in this community haha! :p
 
lazylathe

lazylathe

Almost there...
lazylathe,
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florduh

florduh

Well-Known Member
lazylathe said:
Not really, it appears as if two rival companies are doing "their own research"...
Try this for size:
https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/acm.2016.0337

And also read the original article that I posted a link to. It is not just circumstantial "evidence" as the one you linked to. LOL!
Sorry for the "", the article you linked to has them in and it is very juvenile.
Click to expand...

The paper you're posting is garbage science. The lead investigator is a "naturopath" (read: pseduoscientist) who works for a company that produces MCT based vape carts .

How shocking that his study determined that MCT is the safest diluent!

I posted my issues with this study on this thread:

On the Demonization of PEG

Another study done by actual PhD chemists suggested that PEG may be the safest e-juice carrier:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4838028/

The problem with most of these e-cig studies is that they set up their devices using temps and conditions that no real world user would experience.
 
florduh,
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S

skube

Active Member
lazylathe said:
Not really, it appears as if two rival companies are doing "their own research"...
Try this for size:
https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/acm.2016.0337

And also read the original article that I posted a link to. It is not just circumstantial "evidence" as the one you linked to. LOL!
Sorry for the "", the article you linked to has them in and it is very juvenile.
Click to expand...

No need to apologize.I've just been reading stuff today about peg400.I have read the study in the link you posted.I also read about people rebuking that study because they say no one vapes at that high of a temperature.I use PG,but am always open to different ideas.This reminds me of all the studies years ago about margarine being healtier than butter.That didn't pan out too well for margarine because of trans fats.Did you see the other link from the article I posted? http://hightimes.com/grow/is-e-liquid-safe/
 
lazylathe

lazylathe

Almost there...
skube said:
No need to apologize.I've just been reading stuff today about peg400.I have read the study in the link you posted.I also read about people rebuking that study because they say no one vapes at that high of a temperature.I use PG,but am always open to different ideas.This reminds me of all the studies years ago about margarine being healtier than butter.That didn't pan out too well for margarine because of trans fats.Did you see the other link from the article I posted? http://hightimes.com/grow/is-e-liquid-safe/
Click to expand...

I did but again it comes from a magazine. I like hard studies as some people like to vape at high temps. I see all those crazy videos on IG with crazy high wattage and massive clouds of vapor.
For most normal people who stay within the limits it is fairly safe but why use it when there are safer alternatives?

florduh said:
The paper you're posting is garbage science. The lead investigator is a "naturopath" (read: pseduoscientist) who works for a company that produces MCT based vape carts .

How shocking that his study determined that MCT is the safest diluent!

I posted my issues with this study on this thread:

On the Demonization of PEG

Another study done by actual PhD chemists suggested that PEG may be the safest e-juice carrier:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4838028/

The problem with most of these e-cig studies is that they set up their devices using temps and conditions that no real world user would experience.
Click to expand...

So sorry for my ignorance.
Since I know nothing I will leave this thread and you can educate us.
 
lazylathe,
florduh

florduh

Well-Known Member
lazylathe said:
So sorry for my ignorance.
Since I know nothing I will leave this thread and you can educate us.
Click to expand...

LOL I'm not saying you know nothing. But that study has been making the rounds in the cannabis community for years, and it is about the furthest thing from hard science.

In my opinion, PEG tastes kinda gross, so I don't use it anymore. But we absolutely don't know that it is toxic in real world use situations.
 
florduh,
S

skube

Active Member
lazylathe said:
I did but again it comes from a magazine. I like hard studies as some people like to vape at high temps. I see all those crazy videos on IG with crazy high wattage and massive clouds of vapor.
For most normal people who stay within the limits it is fairly safe but why use it when there are safer alternatives?
Click to expand...

Ok.I found that damn study Hightimes was talking about.lol It's an eye full. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4838028/
 
skube,
florduh

florduh

Well-Known Member
skube said:
Ok.I found that damn study Hightimes was talking about.lol It's an eye full. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4838028/
Click to expand...

That was the study I posted that suggests PEG may be the safest e-cig diluent. The problem with this study and basically every single one I've seen on the subject is: they are using "ecigs" in a way no real world user does. Namely, by inducing runaway temperatures that would be too uncomfortable to vape.

Modern e-cigs use temp control that prevent e-juice from reaching temps that produce toxic carbonyls. Am I saying it's risk free? No. But neither is dabbing straight concentrate on an e-nail... especially if you don't use safe temperatures.
 
florduh,
S

skube

Active Member
florduh said:
That was the study I posted that suggests PEG may be the safest e-cig diluent. The problem with this study and basically every single one I've seen on the subject is: they are using "ecigs" in a way no real world user does. Namely, by inducing runaway temperatures that would be too uncomfortable to vape.

Modern e-cigs use temp control that prevent e-juice from reaching temps that produce toxic carbonyls. Am I saying it's risk free? No. But neither is dabbing straight concentrate on an e-nail... especially if you don't use safe temperatures.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah.I didn't click your link because I thought it was the short version like I had found before.I've been vaping e-cigs for over 10 years.75%PG/25%.All I can say is that I don't hack my guts out in the morning.That's good enough for me.lol
 
skube,
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florduh

florduh

Well-Known Member
skube said:
Oh yeah.I didn't click your link because I thought it was the short version like I had found before.I've been vaping e-cigs for over 10 years.75%PG/25%.All I can say is that I don't hack my guts out in the morning.That's good enough for me.lol
Click to expand...

Yeah I've been using nic juice for a few years and feel great with a clean bill of health. I would like to see some well designed experiments on PG/VG done by reputable scientists. But my conclusion is, if you're not cloud chasing and keep your temps well under 420... it's not worth worrying about.

If someone is worried, I hope they also wear a respirator at all times as you're likely inhaling more carcinogens from brake dust and the like than puffing on some PG at moderate temps.
 
florduh,
S

skube

Active Member
florduh said:
Yeah I've been using nic juice for a few years and feel great with a clean bill of health. I would like to see some well designed experiments on PG/VG done by reputable scientists. But my conclusion is, if you're not cloud chasing and keep your temps well under 420... it's not worth worrying about.
Click to expand...

Yeah,the cloud chasers have pretty much fucked it up for everybody.When I first started vaping,nobody really said a word about it.They may have looked at me a little crazy.Whenever I'm in public,I've always been more of a stealth vapor.Never attracting much attention.
 
skube,
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