The ACMPR - Access to Cannabis for Medical Purposes Regulations

Creeper

deep in the matrix...
The LPs are under control by Health Canada so it seems that your anger would be done well directed towards the appropriate target.

And yes, this current system still is the remnants of the previous government. I didn't expect the Liberals to fix it all up within their first year of control. I am curious to see what happens next spring but like you I am more pessimistic then optimistic.
 

theCerberus

Well-Known Member
The LPs are under control by Health Canada so it seems that your anger would be done well directed towards the appropriate target.

Under control? no. Under regulations? yes. I am very aware of that. Are those regulations unjust? yes! what did pre-MMAR/MMAR/MMPR patients do when the regulations were unjust? sit there twiddling their thumbs and do nothing till health canada lets them grow or make edibles? NO! they were under similar regulations, they broke the law because they felt it was unjust, got in trouble, went to court and won. thats how ALL these rules exist today. BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE WILLING TO TAKE RISKS. There would be no MMPR, no MMAR, no smith decision, no ACMPR without them. Everything happened by breaking the law and going to court.

Sorry, but you've missed my point. Dispensaries and MMAR patients took risks and won in court. Thats why we have MMAR in the first place, the Smith decision 2nd, and retain the right to grow 3rd. LPs are not willing to break the law and fight this even though they would win in court HANDS DOWN. The legal precedent has been set. LPs are leaches. They have no pushback. They do not fight for us; they just want to make money off of us.
 
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theCerberus,

Creeper

deep in the matrix...
Under control? no. Under regulations? yes. I am very aware of that. Are those regulations unjust? yes! what did pre-MMAR/MMAR/MMPR patients do when the regulations were unjust? sit there twiddling their thumbs and do nothing till health canada lets them grow or make edibles? NO! they were under similar regulations, they broke the law because they felt it was unjust, got in trouble, went to court and won. thats how ALL these rules exist today. BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE WILLING TO TAKE RISKS. There would be no MMPR, no MMAR, no smith decision, no ACMPR without them. Everything happened by breaking the law and going to court.

Sorry, but you've missed my point. Dispensaries and MMAR patients took risks and won in court. Thats why we have MMAR in the first place, the Smith decision 2nd, and retain the right to grow 3rd. LPs are not willing to break the law and fight this even though they would win in court HANDS DOWN. The legal precedent has been set. LPs are leaches. They have no pushback. They do not fight for us; they just want to make money off of us.

I was going to type a response but I'm tired and said my piece, all I want to add is I am grateful for the forerunners of the cannabis movement and their tremendous sacrifice to get us to where we are today.
 

mikek9

Vapor Enthusiast
I too am very grateful for everything that those before me have done. Paving the way for medical cannabis acceptance.

I don't know if I would have it in me or be an activist and risk criminal charges and etc for the greater good. I would more silently break the law in my own person defiance. But not on a public level.

I've been sick for 16+ years and used cannabis long before it was ever legalized for medical use. I made edibles 10 years before it was even an issue in court because I needed them for longer term pain management and symptom control. I made extracts 5 years before it ever became an issue in court.

Though the line I would never cross is growing my own out of fear of going to prison for it. Until I was given MMAR I would never start. Until I get the new health Canada documents I won't begin to produce yet.

However, I will not wait to order seeds from LPs. I will use whatever seed source I deem fit for my medical use and the regulations can suck it if they prevent this. I will happily go to court over this issue because it is just arbitrary and restrictive policy.
 

mikek9

Vapor Enthusiast
So as we all know home growing is permitted for all medical patients once you apply and get approval from health Canada under the ACMPR. As /u/theCerberus pointed out that you have to legally obtain starting materials from an established Licensed Provider(LP). I think there was also some discussion about LPs dragging their feet on selling seeds or clones because that is cutting into their own market. Well, it seems they have a plan. It looks like they are just going to charge you a ridiculous fee to get a legal kit to start growing. As I found out today, Whistler Medical Marijuana Corp (WMMC) is the first LP to offer kits for sale, but they cost $750 plus tax for 5 plants of a single strain you choose and that will be the final link in getting started in home growing. Other than the fact you need to apply to Health Canada and essentially dedicate all of you script to growing or split it with another LP.

Anyway, here is the link the Canada's first legal medical home grow kits(for insane prices):

https://whistlermedicalmarijuana.com/plants/

The $750 plus tax seems to be like a membersbip fee in a sense as once you buy a kit which comes with an initial 5 plants you can then buy additional plants shipping to your door included for a reasonable $25 plus applicable taxes. Your grow permit could be for 10-20 or more plants depending on how much of your prescription you dedicate so you could need much more than the initial 5 plants to get started. The one thing that sucks is it looks like you can only continually buy plants of the strain you initially chose because that $750+tax kit you bought was technically for the rights almost to the genetics of a particular strain from that company.

Remember each monthly gram is equal to 5 indoor plants.

The other thing though is presumably you sign up with them for a duration like you do with a dried flower prescription, so likely on a maximum of a year. That makes me wonder now if you will have to buy the rights to the genetics or a new "kit" as the LPs call them for another $750+tax when you renew each year? What if you have a successful mother at home that you've established? I guess at that point you could then buy a kit for another strain if you wanted some more diversity. However, if you aren't the type to keep a mother plant around and pull clones off that you then you will be relying on the LP for new plants around or before(depending on your plant limit of course). So in those cases, you'll prob have to spend the $750 plus tax to continue with that strain you started with a year ago or switch to a new strain you are possibly uncertain of, in the least you don't have experience growing and tending to the new genetics.

If you want a diverse garden it is going to be expensive. If you have a 5 gram prescription, you would have a 25 plant allowtment. That would allow you to buy 5 different kits at max under the currently available pricing structure of $750 plus tax per kit. The 5 kits would cost $3750 plus tax altogether. Plus the materials for your grow like the housing, lighting, planting materials, additional costs if you are going hydroponic. So let's say for a non hydroponic tent that could have 10-20 flowering/maturing plants with say 5-15 as either possible mothers or simply plants in the seedling or vegetative stages the cost would be 1500-2500+tax depending on quality of and needed materials. Like you don't need a tent if you have a room in your house you can seal off and use.

It then looks like it will cost you about $6000 plus tax for a 5gram/25 plant permit and the equipment/facility to get started for your first year in ACMPR legal medical growing. Then a minimum $3750 plus tax each of the following years plus whatever maintenance costs like new bulbs and other lighting and ventilation parts that get worn.

What I want to compare this to now is the cost of just buying flower from the LPs if you have a 5gram a day script instead of converting it to a grow permit and producing at home. So for example, Tweed (www.tweed.com), has a Hindu Kush strain that is usually around 25-28% THC and the lowest price available is under their compassionate pricing which makes this $4.80. They also offer a few other strains in the 7%-20 THC ranges as well as a variety of other strains but the better ones aren't always available. If you opt for something different you are bumped up to $7.20 per gram for strains in potency anywhere from 14-28%. Let's assume each day he consumes 3.5g of the $4.80/gram strains and 1.5g of the $7.20/gram strains he is spending a daily total of $27.60, which with tax is $31.19.

So that number($31.19/day), for 5grams of ready to smoke flower, multiplied by 365 days a year, is $11,384.

LET'S COMPARE

5g/day of dried flowers to your door is $11.384 per year.

5g/day/25 plants of legal Health Canada permitted home cultivation is roughly $6780 per year for 5 different sets of genetics and each additional year is $4238 minimum plus grow site maintenance costs for another 5 different sets of genetics. You also have to factor in how mainly harvests a year you will have beginning your first year as you will need to buy new seedlings/clones or whatever state the plants are in when the LPs sell them. If you have 3 additional harvests a year and need to order 25 plants 3 times that will cost you $706 each time. So in total for 3 addition harvests a year you also have an additional $2118.

So that first year $6780 is now $8898

That second year $4238 is now still a bleeding $6356

Again, let's consider a years worth of 5gram/day of LP cannabis to your door is a property estimated $11,384.

Home grow 1st yr vs LP Flowers
$8898-$11,384 = -$2486

Home grow 2nd yr and onward vs LP Flowers
$6356-$11,384 = -$5028

So I can still see there. Sing a market as there are countless people who would rather buy something already prepared than having to do it from scratch themselves. I liken it to take out food as people, 1/5 the cost, could easily prepare quality food at home, but choose to get take out for the convenience of time being saved as it is already prepared for you and there are no dishes needing to be washed.

******VERY IMPORTANT******

If you read this far I just want to reiterate my stance on personal production and the ACMPR. If you have to actually go the routes discussed above and acquire your genetics for ludicrous prices like $750+tax, I wholeheartedly disagree with that stipulation. I would have no problem in protest simply getting my permit and then starting with the seeds from the seed company of my choosing. I should have the right to decide which strains are most suitable for my ailments. I would never buy LP genetics. I know you could just buy them once for the $848 and then use whatever seeds you want, but we shouldn't have to give the LPs anymore piece of the pie they almost entirely have.

This $750+tax for the genetics and 5 plants is just a cover for them to secure back as much of the losses they will see when the medical home production becomes more popular and hopefully even easier to access than a lengthy Health Canada package.
 

Mainoffender

Well-Known Member
Canna Farms is taking orders now too:

CANNA PLANTS will be sold in groups of two (2). These 2 plants must be of the same strain. Single (1) plants of a strain will not be sold.

Two (2) Plants (of the same strain) = $175 (plus applicable taxes)
Four (4) Plants (of the same strain) = $240 (plus applicable taxes)
Four (4) Plants (two different strains) = $315 (plus applicable taxes)

Six (6) Plants (three different strains) = $455 (plus applicable taxes)

Prices include shipping and handling, and are reflective of the production (growing, packaging, and shipping) and regulatory costs associated with each live cannabis plant.
 

Genki88

Well-Known Member
Ok........my prescription is 3g/day which will allow me to grow 15 plants according to the new ACMPR but I will still only be able to legally have 90 grams in my possession. So, am I suppose to have plants in all different stages of production so I don't ever have more than my legal limit in dried cannabis in my possession?? Help me out here as the math just doesn't seem right to me............
 
Genki88,

mikek9

Vapor Enthusiast
Ok........my prescription is 3g/day which will allow me to grow 15 plants according to the new ACMPR but I will still only be able to legally have 90 grams in my possession. So, am I suppose to have plants in all different stages of production so I don't ever have more than my legal limit in dried cannabis in my possession?? Help me out here as the math just doesn't seem right to me............

You are given an at home storage amount which is going to be much, much more than your current 90g prossession limit. Similar to the old MMAR, they had two different limits, one was for possession of cannabis outside of the home and it was similar to what it is now, but you were given a home storage amount that allowed you to store more dried cannabis from your plants than the regular license allowed. My friend for example had a 3 gram a day limite and I think it was also 15 plants, but he had a home storage amount of like 650g or something ludicrous like that. So the ACMPR should be similar from what I understand.
 
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