Medical Marijuana Patients can now do home grows - Canada

biohacker

Well-Known Member
So can I grow inside my house or need to wait for new regs? I'm MMPR, and also have MMAR (but not grower or DG).
 
biohacker,

mikek9

Vapor Enthusiast
So can I grow inside my house or need to wait for new regs? I'm MMPR, and also have MMAR (but not grower or DG).

It looks like MMPR patients are going to have to wait up to 6 months for the new program/regulation to be established. The courts ruled that it must have a provision to allow home cultivation so it is guaranteed to be allowed under the new program.

MMAR patients specifically can continue to grow until the new regulations are established. @biohacker you have to have a personal production license/permit to be legally be able to grow. If you just have the authorization to possess under MMAR that isn't enough for home growing as it wasn't allowed under MMAR unless you had the extra paperwork filled out. As when you have a personal production permit it specifies how many plants and how much dried cannabis you can store at home which is significantly more than your other MMAR ATP(authorization to possess).

However, it appears in 6 months or less when the new program is created it will merge both MMAR/MMPR patients together under one program. So the MMAR grandfathered status will end and it will be officially repealed as well as the MMPR.

I am concerned about how complex the new process will be for us to sign up and get authorized to cultivate. I personally can't wait.
 

theCerberus

Well-Known Member
A hybrid MMPR/MMAR should be good. They have to keep doctors as gatekeeper and not health canada, so that will be an interesting hurdle to overcome.

MMAR wasnt great. It was very hard to get signed up. Took months. People were sick and dying waiting to be approved.

I could never find a doctor to sign before MMPR (filled out the MMAR form and everything), and it did remove the monopoly on commercial grows so it is not all bad. LPs are now talking to doctors and making cannabis more mainstream in medicine.
I paid nothing for my MMPR script, it was covered by OHIP. MMAR doctors wanted $600.
Some LPs can approve in a couple days, which is closer to a pharmacy.

Granted once you get a grow license or designated grow license the world is yours, but it was a very hard system to get into.

Also interesting to see if they consider fixing everything right now including extract limitations and regulate dispensaries too. They are gonna need them for their legalization efforts...
 
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theCerberus,

weenstoned

Well-Known Member
Will be interesting to see what happens next. Slight chance the Liberals could appeal just to give them more time to craft their legalization system. Also wonder if this could somehow speed up the LPs selling recreationally through the mail which they definitely want to do. I doubt these things will happen, but it's possible.

It does bode well for recreational home-growing unless the Liberals want to set up more constitutional challenges.


 
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theCerberus

Well-Known Member
Given the governments pro cannabis stance I doubt they will challenge the decision. Allard has a solid case and I have no doubt the supreme court would rule any different.

They have the chance to write anything they want into the regulations including writing a system that does not comply with this decision. If the new rules are again unconstitutional (just like the section 56 on extracts is too restrictive, since the supreme court ruled that all forms of cannabis and derivatives are legal for a medical user to possess but LPs can't make concentrates at all) all we as patients can do is challenge the new rules in court which will buy them time too. If they are forward thinking they will consider the system they put in place needs a retail storefront dispensary so that the recreational market has somewhere to buy from. Mail order for the entire countries population is rediculous. LPs couldn't handle it. A lot of them can't even manage to ship same day with just the medical patients and they certainly don't have the CSRs to handle all those calls. Most LPs have about 3 CSRs for the few thousands of patients they cover.
 
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weenstoned

Well-Known Member
Ya I am mostly going off the fact that some of them apparently have big stockpiles (while others can't keep things in stock). Also they have lobbyists. Considering how hard reps from LPs have been talking down home growing in articles they must be worried.

Still a tad skeptical that they'll create the system patients deserve. I could see no dispensaries allowed still but maybe pharmacies dispensing it. Kind of hard to tell as Trudeau seemed pro compassion Club but anti dispensaries during the election.
 
weenstoned,

biohacker

Well-Known Member
A hybrid MMPR/MMAR should be good. They have to keep doctors as gatekeeper and not health canada, so that will be an interesting hurdle to overcome.

I have been told by a Specialist that it's the Pain Clinic MD's that will be the real gatekeepers, and GP's will want nothing to do with it. But that's just his opinion.

I paid nothing for my MMPR script, it was covered by OHIP. MMAR doctors wanted $600.

I paid nothing for my MMAR, and it wasn't difficult to obtain due to a Specialist. Primary reason was a sleep disorder, and since the specialist supported the MMAR, so did my GP since the Specialist takes the responsibility.

kind of hard to tell as Trudeau seemed pro compassion Club but anti dispensaries during the election.

From what i've been reading in the news recently, he is trying to push for the LCBO? Fuck it, they sell beer in grocery stores, stock some sticky icky behind the counter too!
 
biohacker,
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verdampersweats

Well-Known Member
And when they do the house of cards will fall because tincture and oils and such can easily be mailed around the world by anyone in Canada and thus giving sick people an income in Cananda and others still deprived the ability to get things pretty risk free due to the reduced size and smell.

The creative ways to send to a Mr John doe are becoming near undetectable due to the potency and size of extracts.
 
verdampersweats,

mikek9

Vapor Enthusiast
Since I am a medical user I care most about what happens on the medical side of things. As the courts have ruled home growing must be allowed under the new medical marijuana framework I am very excited at this prospect. Within 6 months I should be able to enroll in a new program that will allow me to legally cultivate at home.

The health minister did say this has nothing to do with the legalization of cannabis. This was strictly an issue of the medical marijuana program. So I don't anticipate the federal government, with the hopeful eventual legalization of recreational use, to allow home growing for non-medical purposes. Personally, I don't really have much invested in if it gets legalized recreationally as I am already legal, but I do agree it should be legal and cannabis prohibition should end. I sort of feel as a medical user we should be entitled to a distinction over the average recreational user. Which will possibly be the home growing for medical patients as I don't believe it will be allowed for recreational purposes.

Given the governments pro cannabis stance I doubt they will challenge the decision. Allard has a solid case and I have no doubt the supreme court would rule any different.

They have the chance to write anything they want into the regulations including writing a system that does not comply with this decision. If the new rules are again unconstitutional (just like the section 56 on extracts is too restrictive, since the supreme court ruled that all forms of cannabis and derivatives are legal for a medical user to possess but LPs can't make concentrates at all) all we as patients can do is challenge the new rules in court which will buy them time too. If they are forward thinking they will consider the system they put in place needs a retail storefront dispensary so that the recreational market has somewhere to buy from. Mail order for the entire countries population is rediculous. LPs couldn't handle it. A lot of them can't even manage to ship same day with just the medical patients and they certainly don't have the CSRs to handle all those calls. Most LPs have about 3 CSRs for the few thousands of patients they cover.

I agree that I couldn't see how LPs could suddenly handle the recreational demand anytime soon. They would need to quadruple their production or more likely causing quality to suffer as the scale only increases in size. This wouldn't be a good thing for anyone. I don't know why the LPs are even considered interested in the recreational market. Unless they just established new facilities with separate plants and staff for recreational specifically. I seem to think there is going to be some limitations on potencies as well for recreational use.

Then, without sidetracking this thread, how will the recreational market gain supply with growing being permitted. I'm guessing the government will have to allow commercial growing like LPs to provide the eventual stores that will be selling it. I believe there will be eventual stores you can buy cannabis in, but with places like the LCBO already established, I wouldn't be surprised if they became the sole distribution points.

I have been told by a Specialist that it's the Pain Clinic MD's that will be the real gatekeepers, and GP's will want nothing to do with it. But that's just his opinion.

From what i've been reading in the news recently, he is trying to push for the LCBO? Fuck it, they sell beer in grocery stores, stock some sticky icky behind the counter too!

I really hope it doesn't go to specialist only because that would mean I would have to find a specialist to write me a recommendation to medical cannabis as I got mine through my family doctor under the new MMPR framework.

About the grocery stores, I doubt that will happen or if they would have the capacity, but Shoppers Drug Mart has been expressing interest in possibly retailing medical cannabis:

http://www.thestar.com/business/2016/02/24/shoppers-drug-mart-rexall-want-to-sell-marijuana.html
 
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mikek9,

weenstoned

Well-Known Member
@mikek9 this ruling makes it a lot more likely that homegrows will be included in legalization as this case kinda decimated any of the arguments regarding the safety. They'll basically be setting up a constitutional challenge right away that could easily be avoided with a say a 5 or 10 plant limit (though a limit would probably end up being challenged anyways). Not to mention that people can already make alcohol or grow tobacco legally.


LPs want legalization ASAP because currently they're the best positioned, but if things develop slowly and as more and more producers are licensed then any headstart they have basically evaporates. There's definitely no way they could meet the demand of the whole country currently, but they would love to sell out 100% at recreational prices. Compare that to now where they're building a stockpile and most sell at least some of their product at compassionate prices. I don't think all LPs have this way of thinking, but a lot of them would love if they could start mail order to recreational customers right away.
 

theCerberus

Well-Known Member
I've heard Conroy, Tousaw, and the Cannabis in Canada guys mention repeatedly that there is no way that legalization can not include home cultivation legally now.

If the rules come out that recreational users cant grow, they will challenge it and it may take time, but there is a rock solid case that they would win because they have proved the government has no right to restrict citizens from producing the plant when they allow corporations to do so.

Whats the difference between a sick or healthy person if cannabis is legal? We are (rightfully so) using being sick to justify cannabis use but now the government is saying everyone has justified use.

The difference between medical and recreational should only be retail taxes. Medical users should not pay taxes.
 
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