Virtual Banquet Thread

t-dub said:

You are eating goat? That is an acquired taste . . . One time when I was somewhere in Asia a "relative" leaned over while we were eating on the front doorstep and he asked me straight out if I had ever eaten dog before. I told him no. He said "You have now!" . . . To this day I'm still not sure if he was telling the truth, but I think he was.

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I grew up periodically eating goat curries and Greek, Mexican and Romanian goat dishes in NYC. It's actually one of my favorite meats. Can be tough, but it stews up beautifully. Goes well in curry, Chinese black bean, goulash, and other spicy stews. Though it also slow-roasts really well- if you can get some, one traditional Mexican method is a whole goat wrapped in avocado leaves and roasted in chilis and cinnamon. Tasty.

First batch of pickles is now fully sour. Brine was salt, yellow and brown mustard seeds, allspice, garlic, black peppercorns, sage and dill. 17 days of fermentation.



And the kraut has a-krauted nicely. A classic kraut, the only ingredients are cabbage and salt. 9 days of fermentation.

Here is our attempt at homemade Lechon. A long, slow roast after a heavy salt and pepper rub, no brine this time. Sorry about the "gash" on the skin but I had to try it . . . so crispy . . . yummmmmm!!!

t-dub said:

Here is our attempt at homemade Lechon. A long, slow roast after a heavy salt and pepper rub, no brine this time. Sorry about the "gash" on the skin but I had to try it . . . so crispy . . . yummmmmm!!!

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What cut(s) did you use? Belly?

arf777 said:

What cut(s) did you use? Belly?

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Not sure, the wife just brought it home because she said it inspired her and I never saw the package.

When I was in the tropics, we used to stew up goat meat with chunks of green papaya, it has natural meat tenderizer in it (papain enzyme) and as a bonus would turn into nice sweet dumplings.

Since it is Passover starting Friday at sundown, I have a question for any members of the tribe on here. Why are pickles, corned beef, and kraut that cure for 2 weeks or more kosher for passover (and are fermented) but matzoh has to have no leavening and be made in 18 minutes or less - including dough resting time?

And here in the deep Jewish world (Baltimore-DC) there is now kosher for Passover BAKING SODA at the Orthodox kosher Seven Mile Market. I guess it's kosher to eat by the tasty spoonful but not to use as, well, baking soda?

arf777 said:

Since it is Passover starting Friday at sundown, I have a question for any members of the tribe on here. Why are pickles, corned beef, and kraut that cure for 2 weeks or more kosher for passover (and are fermented) but matzoh has to have no leavening and be made in 18 minutes or less - including dough resting time?

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I believe matzoh has to be unleavened and made in a certain amount of time because (as the story goes) they had to get outta there in a hurry. So no time to let dough rise.

beach bum said:

I believe matzoh has to be unleavened and made in a certain amount of time because (as the story goes) they had to get outta there in a hurry. So no time to let dough rise.

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Yeah, I know that part of the story. But that doesn't explain why we can drink pesadich wine made from a non-yeast microbe but that still takes some time to ferment, but no yeast-based wine. Yet we can eat anything that is otherwise kosher that has gone through fermentation by lactobacillus, no matter how long it takes. Or why we need to use special weird 'passover' flour. Or why until recently corn was not allowed under Ashkenazic law but was allowed under Sephardic.

I studied the classical kabbalah in grad school for 6 years and never came across consistent explanations for the pesadich kashrut rules. I'm assuming a lot of it is from parts of the Talmud i have not read. And from traditions, rather than laws.

Here is another example- most American Jews I grew up with will eat soy sauce on Passover. But the soy sauce production method involves loaves of wheat and soy that then get yeast added and ferment for days and days. Even after I pointed this out to my otherwise observant (on Passover) family they kept eating it on Passover. Cuz they always have.

A new bacon, a slavic style cure- brined in Tokaji, ginger, yellow and brown mustard seed, garlic, and fennel seed. Using a different salt combo this time too - sea salt and Prague powder #1. Also, smoked over a different wood mix than usual - equal parts maple, pecan and hickory.



And have a brisket I've had corning for two weeks still in the smoker.

Here's the corned beef. Turned out fucking awesome, tender and fragrant. The brine was kosher salt, saltpeter, yellow and brown mustard seed, celery seed, black pepper, white pepper, and huge amounts of ginger and garlic. Brined for two weeks, then smoked for four hours, then simmered for 90 minutes. Note the lovely color. Sorry for the less than stellar pic- my power has been out for a couple of hours. Which is why there is no pic of it sliced and served with my homemade kraut and mustard. Will plate it for tomorrow's dinner.

I made an apple puff pancake for brunch yesterday. In retrospect, I wouldn't use as much brown sugar on top. Even after broiling and torching, it didn't all melt and was a bit much.

momofthegoons said:

I made an apple puff pancake for brunch yesterday. In retrospect, I wouldn't use as much brown sugar on top. Even after broiling and torching, it didn't all melt and was a bit much.

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Still pretty though, and looks tasty.

When blowtorching either brown or white sugar, the standard way to make sure it will all caramelize properly is to make sure the surface is a little moist, put on a good amount of sugar, then shake the sugar off and only torch or broil the sugar that sticks. Can result in a pretty thin sugar layer, but it will always be even and pretty.

With moist brown sugar, if you want to use a larger amount than what would stick, you can melt it first, pour it on what you want to top, even it out with a knife, and then torch it. Since it would already have melted evenly, it will then brulee more easily and evenly.

beach bum said:

I believe matzoh has to be unleavened and made in a certain amount of time because (as the story goes) they had to get outta there in a hurry. So no time to let dough rise.

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More news on this - both baking soda and baking powder (of the right brands, of course) ARE now pesadich to use as leavening. Which is fucking insane. It means, for instance, that biscuits are k for p, as long as they do not mix milk and meat or need to sit (which most biscuit recipes do not - they leaven while baking). Which means most tortillas are pesadich, as long as the stuff is blessed.

Now as folks here know, I do not keep kosher. Spent part of yesterday smoking bacon. But I don't pretend it's kosher to do so. I used to be a kabbalah scholar, and have studied the Talmud (almost became a rabbi).
My reaction to this is:

@arf777, why no shellfish or pork (not for p, in general)? Do you think it is related to health concerns 'back in the day'? Or was there other reasoning?

Not to mention birds with webbed feet...

beach bum said:

@arf777, why no shellfish or pork (not for p, in general)? Do you think it is related to health concerns 'back in the day'? Or was there other reasoning?

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The pork and shellfish have really specific, and nearly rational, reasons. Pork was ritually consumed and sacrificed by the Phoenicians, Assyrians and other enemies of the ancient Hebrews. So on the model of 'my enemy's god is my devil', the enemy's holy food was rejected. Also, Israel is mostly desert. Pigs need to stay cool. Though they are in fact not dirty creatures, they will roll in their own shit and piss if there is no water or mud to wallow in to stay cool. Add to that that even in the ancient world it was common knowledge that pig tasted a lot like human flesh, and you get the Jewish ban.

Shellfish was originally a much more specific ban, specifically on crabs. Shallow-water Mediterranean crabs were known to eat human flesh from shipwrecks (they still do). So they were verboten because it was seen as one step away from eating people. The ban then spread to all obvious aquatic scavengers, including all shellfish, many of which are scavengers.

@grokit - you are slightly incorrect about webbed-footed birds. Duck and goose are kosher, and as far as I know always have been. It is scavenging birds that are on the list of 24 non-kosher birds. It is true that many of them are web-footed, but that is not why they aren't kosher. Like the shellfish, it is because they will eat dead rotted things, including dead people.

There are weirder bits in the kosher laws though. Cetaceans aren't kosher, but not because of what they eat or because they are intelligent. It's because their flippers have bones in them that looked like hands to the ancient Hebrews. And there is an argument that they felt air-breathing things living in water violated divine boundaries. Dugongs are also not kosher (they were a major food animal in the ancient Red Sea region). Though oddly enough, dugong skin could be shatnes.

@arf777, appreciate the info. Have always wondered but now I know!

@grokit, I had no clue about the webbed feet thing!

Damn this gets complicated!

Corned beef, sauerkraut, sour pickle and mustard, all homemade.

@arf777 your latest posts have looked divine. I'm' a sucker for good, lean corned beef. And I've been craving it so this isn't helping a bit, lol.

We don't have many good places that serve it so I may just have to step up here and attempt something myself. Haven't purchased the smoker yet. I think this summer will be the time it happens. I can't wait to start experimenting and picking your brain.

momofthegoons said:

Haven't purchased the smoker yet . . .

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If you want flawless smoking with no hassle, perfect results every time, go with Cookshack. No fire to tend no fuss, no muss, just load the wood box and go. Awesome food, every time, period. Their smokers are so good and easy they are banned from competition.

http://www.cookshack.com/store/Smokers_2

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momofthegoons said:

@arf777 your latest posts have looked divine. I'm' a sucker for good, lean corned beef. And I've been craving it so this isn't helping a bit, lol.

We don't have many good places that serve it so I may just have to step up here and attempt something myself. Haven't purchased the smoker yet. I think this summer will be the time it happens. I can't wait to start experimenting and picking your brain.

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Let me know if you want a brine recipe. You don't have to smoke corned beef, you can just brine it and simmer it or roast it, but I like it smoked. Adds another layer of flavor.

t-dub said:

If you want flawless smoking with no hassle, perfect results every time go with Cookshack. No fire to tend no fuss, no muss, just load the wood box and go. Awesome food, every time, period. Their smokers are so good and easy they are banned from competition.

http://www.cookshack.com/store/Smokers_2

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These are good for non-wood smokers. Most competitions do not allow gas or electric smokers, but I'd say not because of how good they are, though they ARE an order of magnitude easier to use than wood or charcoal. Without wood or charcoal, you can't get bark. You ask me, without bark it ain't real bbq. But I learned bbq in North Carolina. You can definitely do good deli meat, cheese, and fish on any of the above smokers.

If you want a wood-fired one, I use a Brinkman upright with an offset firebox. About $1000 less than any other wood-burning smoker i know of - I got mine for $325.

arf777 said:

Without wood or charcoal, you can't get bark.

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Dude there is a wood box in the bottom, I get plenty of bark . . . The only thing wood fired smokers are good for is drying your food out and making a bunch of hassle while you end up smelling like a campfire.

t-dub said:

Dude there is a wood box in the bottom, I get plenty of bark . . . The only thing wood fired smokers are good for is drying your food out and making a bunch of hassle while you end up smelling like a campfire.

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I know there is a wood box. But wood-fired is different, and makes different texture, than wood heated electrically or with gas. It creates a different chemical reaction.

I've had the bark from electric smokers. It is not the same as wood-fired bark, so much so that it is not really the same thing. There is a reason there isn't a single actual smokehouse in the Carolinas that uses an electric or a gas. Every pro smokehouse I've been in uses either wood fired or charcoal fired. Not just in the Carolinas- the same is true for pit beef places in Maryland - most of those I've seen are charcoal fired with a wood chip box.

I'm not saying you can't get good home food out of gas or electric, with far less labor and cost than a wood burning smoker. You can. But you can't get professional results.