Religion, ADHD and the Reward System (Dopamine)

I just had a thought the lead to another, and now maybe I'm a heretic...?

Religions, beyond being frameworks for behavior and belief, all provide the means to create cognitive pathways to a dopaminergic state, and a social structure that encourages repeated experiencing of it. So, perhaps that is their underlying agenda or purpose, to educate the masses in how to bring their brain chemistry to its' genetic ideal chemistry.

I read dopamine is the neuro-transmitter most associated with focus and increased "working memory." When you get it going, and "breath into it," (by focusing on it in a special way you can intensify the amount and effect), it's also associated with intense feelings of well being.

Odd, isn't it, that the same mechanism intended to chemically bond baby and mother, continues so far into our lives encouraging us to keep emotional bonds - like family is part of our DNA. (yeah, but so is pain avoidance, and that fucks shit up sometimes)

Someone told me I should get my kid into church, and I reacted by saying I thought the dopaminergic state they experience during worship wasn't God, but just a trick they were doing with their brain, and that the real thing to do now is to change that trick so it's working all the time, without having to associate it with specific meanings or emotions. She almost ran away. I thought she could help me, gotta figure out how to stop reverting back into Reward-System-Avoidant-Man, feel like that guy in 50 First Dates who's brain resets all the time.

Wouldn't being with family induce the dopaminergic state? But family can also cause stress... as can religion. Hm, it seems we've encountered a double edged sword

As a recovering Catholic organized religion is a form of mind control imho. I prefer a "personal" relationship with what I feel might be the creative force behind the universe.

t-dub said:

As a recovering Catholic organized religion is a form of mind control imho. I prefer a "personal" relationship with what I feel might be the creative force behind the universe.

Click to expand...

Well said.

Karl Marx said it best, " Religion is the opiate of the masses. "

Religion, at street level, is largely driven through fear. In the face of God you will be judged, therefore obey.
God was the original chief of police, now he's a tool used to fuel politics and agendas.

I believe all of the statements above ignore the basic experience that people have in religion, which is hightened dopamine levels in the brain.

I was just making a funny, that the brain chemistry the religious types have developed the skill to create and maintain is now scientifically the same as the ideal human brain state. Dopamine is the number one neuro-transmitter associated with focus and concentration - if you want a picture of a brain that's happy and clicking away, you could look at any brain as it looks during worship.

Now, the instruction manual they usually pass out with the brain trick, that's another topic altogether (I believe the bibles were developed by men).

But if you look at how people act and behave while they are on self-created dopamine highs - you can't fault a peace loving man, and they don't much more peacefull than while high on dopamine.

I believe everytime we've heard of a hardened criminal claiming their behavior was altered in some basic way because they "found God" there was a scientific basis and that they were right - their behavior had changed.





odd, perhaps even devine intervention that the same brain trick that keeps a human baby and parents bonded (dopamine circuits), keeps feeding the brain that keeps healthy emotional ties exactly the chemicals it needs to succeed in business. The human reward system is worth a looking into.

There was a nice simple quote recently spoken by a member of FC. Forgive me I can't remember who, but they said "we're all just bags of chemicals, some a more stable than others."

You can't get much more fundamental than that.

So what's the point in it all...? That's the question religion attempts to provide some answer to, albeit inadequately. But no more inadequately than science, overall.

Magic9 said:

t-dub said:

As a recovering Catholic organized religion is a form of mind control imho. I prefer a "personal" relationship with what I feel might be the creative force behind the universe.

Click to expand...

Well said.

Click to expand...

agreed. while i do not prescribe to any organized religion i also do not feel my path is the only way, but it is for me. some people can get in a group and chant "jesus loves me" and get a rush, i do not.

I'm not talking about beliefs, I hope you guys understand that.

I'm talking about the experience,

It is easy to drop out the "experience" because it is thought to be subjective, we're taught to not talk about our internal life, but there are reasons the human body functions that require exploring the experience.

ADHD adults express less dopamine than their counterparts in society, and they can quantify our difficulties in finding or holding jobs, but they can't tell us how to reverse the brain imbalance.

We can spend years trying to tow the line, keep our baser instincts in check, by not drinking too much, by not taking stimulants, but not begin to treat the underlying medical condition: not enough dopamine


Opiate for the masses sums it up, but also demeans it. That's like saying baby's in their mother's arms are just funny. To the baby it feels like something else, and that experience is what we are missing, and its not something we can say we don't need, or those rules don't apply to us, because we are all programmed genetically to function the same.

We all need dopamine, and the more the better. The more dopamine I experience the less I feel a need to do meth. Logically I know meth is bad for me, but I also know that when I do it and jack off I feel loved and connected, like spending a weekend in a lover's bed. And, once in a while, I need to feel that kind of love and connection. That is the experience, not "getting high."

We need to start connecting these things, we need to get a realistic idea of how and what we are self-medicating for, so we can shift the argument away from "getting high," to what's really going on.

VWFringe said:

It is easy to drop out the "experience" because it is thought to be subjective

Click to expand...

for some perhaps but not for me, i live for the experience that is attained from choosing whatever method or path of your liking and i guess you could say the experience is there to provide a journey and path to follow...like i said, some can just chant but for now i gotta toke. life is a journey and has destinations...its about all of it, gotta take it all in or you are missing out on the fullness of a more aware consciousness. (not trying to prove a point with ya, just rambling)

VWFringe said:

We need to start connecting these things, we need to get a realistic idea of how and what we are self-medicating for, so we can shift the argument away from "getting high," to what's really going on.

Click to expand...

thats dope yo. yep, ive been thinking this for a while now. nicely put. im all for a place of mind that rests in a high place nonstop, and i think it starts with paying more attention to the world around us and filling (re-filling?) it with the things we know matter most and bring about a greater expression of our self. been working at it.

I personally think religion works against humanity because of the ways it's become co-opted by those seeking power, and the ways it's encourages exclusion of different sets of people.

I think perhaps people come to religion, having had a taste of some deeper sense of community and one-ness with those around them, believing this is a spiritual quest, an exploration of their spirit...when it's just a search for dopamine, or how to attain a dopaminergic state with others.

Then they get hurded into these white-washed right-wing think tanks, we call churches, where they agree to be partially brain-washed, and take on additional roles they must agree to play for the rest of their lives, or feel guilty about, and are convinced about how others are internally if they do not believe in your bible, and how you should start to convert everyone else...not to encourage them to find the dopamine, but all the other trappings of religion instead.

It's crazy.

but the dopamine - that's where people should be driven in the first place, because that's what really changes people's heads around.

which of course is why I can't go to church much - or if I do it's not as a member of one, but more like a dopamine tourist. I once took one of those wafers at a catholic church without knowing outsiders weren't supposed to (without going through the training or whatever), but i had read richard bach's Illusions, so I thought I knew what it represented, and was higher than a kite on dopamine, even though I didn't know it was dopamine at the time.
after Illusions I liked churches a little better, but it's only recently that I've started to pick apart my dopamine experience, after finding out it's at the root of the ADHD brain-chemistry.

^ mhm

not all religions are designed for the power hungry, some point you inward and (in general terms) tell you that "each person it their own guru" in a way, which i more or less prescribe to but not in an organized way at all, instead it is very personal. the moment you take a personal experience and make it organized with hierarchies and rules and meetings etc is the moment you take something special and make it convoluted.

i cannot go into a church anymore, the whole idea of it is gut wrenching for me...i have a longer than normal history here and wont go into it, but lets just say its not easy to judge or understand one person's reality without experiencing it for yourself, like in their head...which is impossible as far as i can tell. so if you can take a wafer and get high from it, kudos to you...seriously. id like to reach that level where just breathing normally does the trick.

i know you can experience an elevated consciousness doing "the church thang" (ive had it) but its just not for me anymore (dont think it ever was actually just all i had at the time), i tend to get distracted by the bullshit (just how i see it) and im allergic to bullshit.