Fluxer Heaters, induction heaters for Dynavap

stark1 said:

Hello, Dr Fluxer.

In the spirit of Black Friday it would be great if Fluxerheater launch an Xmas BF Sale!

This would coincide with Fluxerheater’s Grand Opening of business.

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I think his offerings are priced fairly, I'm not sure a sale would really be appropriate here or at least not at this early stage in his venture.

^ agree 100%, I don’t recall Pipes having sales. Or any of the other people making VC stems or IHs. Considering the custom circuit boards with the relay protection and better quality components, the fluxerheaters are a great value at their respective prices. I think to expect our home-based artisans & craftsmen to offer BF sales is unreasonable. That’s for retailers and small business like Dynavap; people like SDS, phattpiggie and mr_c are already undervaluing their hourly rate, their profit margins are slim enough.

America goes apeshit consumerism overload for Black Friday every year. While I love a sale or deal as much as anyone, where does it stop? IMO if you’re buying something handmade that requires skills to produce, you can pay what they’re asking. Or not.

Monsoon said:

I think his offerings are priced fairly, I'm not sure a sale would really be appropriate here or at least not at this early stage in his venture.

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Just throwing possible options.

I myself am not expecting that it will affect me, one way, or the other.

Will get on board if Fluxerheater offer a vertical cxt, an option different from the present horizontal
portable model.

Options.

Sorry, @stark1. I think @Monsoon and @pxl_jockey have a good grasp of the situation. Also, these heaters are already pretty deeply discounted relative to the value they offer, so I can't really sell them for any less. Sorry.

As for other orientations: I'll consider it down the road. For now, though, this is what I have to offer.

I'll try to pull together a better post soon. I hope to get some heaters in the mail tomorrow for the field testers/early adopters. I have five ready to be boxed, will likely get the US-bound heaters out tomorrow, and the AUS, CAN, and UK ones out on Monday.







More later.

Happy Friday, all (though most of you are already on to Saturday, lol).

Cheers,

Glad to see these are starting to ship. I'm not sure where I am on the list but I eagerly await user feedback.

NiceInvasion said:

Glad to see these are starting to ship. I'm not sure where I am on the list but I eagerly await user feedback.

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That makes two of us!

A bit more about this week's progress: It was an eventful week, as I made the first batch of Deluxes, and started the first batch of Mother Fluxers.

These heaters take time to build, and they certainly don't build themselves. It was very informative to finally make multiples of each sub-assembly.

I set aside one night for wiring up the circuit boards, including making the work coils by hand.
Another night was spent wiring up the battery holders and LEDs, and getting these components positioned right.
I had thought I could both drill and glue the magnets into the enclosures in a single night, but for this initial build those tasks stretched to two nights. Two LATE nights.

Keep in mind that to this point in the project I've spent a lot of time wiring up circuit boards and batteries, and am pretty efficient at both, but I haven't spent a lot of time laying out holes and drilling enclosures. Enclosures are pricey and they don't really wear out, so unless I completely screw them up I just reuse them.

That's changing now that I'm making these to sell, and I'm still climbing that learning curve. Hole layout takes time, and getting your work properly fixed for drilling takes time, but my old drill press was giving me fits - decent, but too small for what I now need, and these tasks were taking forever!

I decided it was time to upgrade my drill press. Thankfully, I found a great one at a great price on Craigslist - a 25 year old Delta model that came a really good 3" cross-slide vise and a 5" drill vise, all in excellent shape. The only downside was that it was an hour and a half away. I had the afternoon off, though, so I was able make the three hour round trip to pick it up. It sort of killed the afternoon for project work, but well worth it, IMO. I know this isn't a tool forum and most of you could care less about a drill press, but you're gonna like the holes I can drill with it, so I'll post a pic nonetheless. This is from the CL ad:



I cleaned it up and re-greased the table mechanism, and it's definitely a keeper.

I need to build out some Mother Fluxer units for field testing, so it will see some use this weekend.

I think that's it for now. I'll get the US-bound Deluxes invoiced and sent off tomorrow. The others will go out Monday and/or Tuesday, depending on my workload at my real job. Mother Fluxer field test units will go out early next week, too. Then, I need to get some feedback, see what the field testers have to say. Hopefully it's thumbs up and I can start selling heaters, but if it turns out they need some work, they'll get it.

Thanks again, everyone, for your support and participation in this thread and this project! I hope everyone that wants one of these is able to get one, and I hope you like them when you do.

Thats it for now. Cheers!

mr_cfromcali said:

Sorry, @stark1. I think @Monsoon and @pxl_jockey have a good grasp of the situation. Also, these heaters are already pretty deeply discounted relative to the value they offer, so I can't really sell them for any less. Sorry.

As for other orientations: I'll consider it down the road. For now, though, this is what I have to offer.

I'll try to pull together a better post soon. I hope to get some heaters in the mail tomorrow for the field testers/early adopters. I have five ready to be boxed, will likely get the US-bound heaters out tomorrow, and the AUS, CAN, and UK ones out on Monday.

More later.

Happy Friday, all (though most of you are already on to Saturday, lol).

Cheers,

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More than “fair enough”, mr_cfromcali!

You are presently concentrating your energy on realizing a robust product, and the initial production
Of your units.

Perhaps on down the line, you might consider attractive custom enclosures to enhance the eye appeal.
Form, adding to Function.

Not meant to be a negative, merely a suggestion, to enhance not only the looks, but $$$ales, as well.

You are using what there is available, I realize.

Your product line seems solidly made, in the USA. Like in the days of old.

@stark1 @mr_cfromcali already thought about that great idea.

mr_cfromcali said:

I believe they will do lids and possibly whole enclosure. You will need to talk with them - the owner is very helpful and does excellent work.

This is his IG page, which he shared, and which has a good portfolio of his work:

https://www.instagram.com/vacavapes/

I am having a custom lid made (just sent the art last night), so I can report back when it's done.

Finally, it's worth noting that he uses a chemical etchant, not a CNC process.

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Those first batch units looks great
Can't wait to hear some user feedback and get hold of one...

Me too, me too. Can't wait to see the pics of the mother fluxer finalized.

‘ oly Mother fluxed!

I’d like a baby Fluxer, please.

Hi everyone,

A brief update for both the Deluxe and the Mother Fluxer: I stumbled on a nasty issue over the weekend that I need to resolve before I can build out more heaters. The issue appears to come from the VHF input filter, and it is preventing the heaters from working as expected.

The issue, in short, is that the input filter seems to be producing an output signal 100% of the time. My investigation suggests that this is due to some bad or damaged chips rather than a flaw in the circuit, but I need more chips (which I'm sourcing from a different vendor) to verify this. They've been ordered and should be here in another day or two.

More background: I ended up spending 15-20 hours investigating the issue over the weekend - fun times! - and at this point, I suspect I have a bad batch (or otherwise damaged my supply) of the critical component in this circuit, the MAX6816EUS "debouncer" chip. I've ordered some more of them from a different vendor, so I'll know more in a day or two when those parts get here.

I was building out Deluxes for field testing when I discovered this, but the bug affects both the Deluxe and the Mother Fluxer, as both heaters use this same input filter circuit. I successfully completed and tested five Deluxes before the issue appeared, but I am at a standstill at the moment, until I either get this resolved (or elect to omit the filter for the time being...)

So that's the latest. I have reached out to people smarter than myself for insight, but at the moment, my investigation points to supply of bad or damaged "debouncer" chips. I'm not sure I believe that - "bad chips" is too pat an answer - but at the moment, that's what the facts point towards.

I'll update as I get more info...

^ I hate to like this but appreciate your honesty and transparency as always. I can’t imagine how frustrated and plain ol’ passed off you must be to have this problem when you’re so close to successful builds. I know I didn’t fully understand how much time you’ve invested in testing and troubleshooting, in addition to all the soldering and building, as you’re trying to bring a better device to market.

For me personally, being aware of the setbacks as well as the improvements gives me even more faith in the final products when they are released. If you were using the same board & components as the other IHs, you’d be done. But you’re making something special in a way that many folks (like me!) simply could not do. If it was easy then everyone would be making kick-ass custom-built IHs in little enclosures!

Hang tough, Mr_C! The night is darkest before the dawn.

pxl_jockey said:

^ I hate to like this but appreciate your honesty and transparency as always. I can’t imagine how frustrated and plain ol’ passed off you must be to have this problem when you’re so close to successful builds. I know I didn’t fully understand how much time you’ve invested in testing and troubleshooting, in addition to all the soldering and building, as you’re trying to bring a better device to market.

For me personally, being aware of the setbacks as well as the improvements gives me even more faith in the final products when they are released. If you were using the same board & components as the other IHs, you’d be done. But you’re making something special in a way that many folks (like me!) simply could not do. If it was easy then everyone would be making kick-ass custom-built IHs in little enclosures!

Hang tough, Mr_C! The night is darkest before the dawn.

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Thanks for the kind words, @pxl_jockey ! I'm trying to strike a balance in my communication. I don't want to sweep these issues under the rug, but at the same time, no one wants to read about the frustrations some guy has with his own damn hobby... So I try to keep my complaints and frustrations here to a minimum. I save it for my family .

Yeah, it was a complete surprise when I happened upon the issue. I have a process for testing heaters after I build them, and the last step is "burning in" a heater by using it a bit, as it should be. The first three builds were successful and uneventful. Build number four was the first to exhibit this issue, which presents itself as "the heater turns on (begins heating) with the on/off switch." Grrrr....

Thankfully, the thermal fuse cut power before things got too hot, but that was how I discovered the issue. I took a quick look, didn't see anything obvious, and put that build aside to troubleshoot later. I went on to the build the next one (number five), which was fine. Number six, though exhibited the same problem as number four, so at that point I knew I had an issue (rather than a single a bad build).

I went back and began troubleshooting the first malfunctioning build. I tried to consider all of the possible things that could cause the heater to switch on improperly, and began eliminating them until I was left with just the debouncing chip itself. I'm still suspicious, as I seem to have a >80% failure rate for the chips I have -- which is an eye-popping statistical anomaly -- but that would be consistent with them being exposed to a big dose of static electricity, which I can't entirely rule out. But...yeah, although "shit happens," I'm pretty frustrated at this latest development. On the other hand - I am grateful I found this before I shipped these out. It points to the benefits of testing!

I have a few more cards up my sleeve on this, though: In another week or two I will receive the copies of this circuit I had made by the assembly house (remember that? It was about a month ago, and it has been its own little adventure, but I'll save that story for another time, especially since it isn't over yet...). It would be just swell if those work as expected, lol. I also have more of the "debouncer" chips arriving Tuesday or Wednesday, so I'll have another chance to build my own version with chips from a different vendor.

Finally, the filter is intended to protect and prolong the life of the MOSFETs, but if I can't surmount this issue, I can bypass the filter, or omit it from the build until I have something that works. I would very much prefer to get this issue sorted out, though. @stardustsailor made a very canny choice when he spec'd this, as it is exactly the right component for this application.

Sorry for the wordiness. The investigation continues.

Thanks, all. I'll keep you updated.

If you sourced those chips from China they are probably just a different IC re-screened as real Maxim ones.

We use a few Maxim and other western parts in our controller and usually when we find a Chinese supplier that has them cheaper than sourcing them locally they are usually fake or pulls from old equipment.

We bought a huge lot of Opto22 brand relays a few years ago for a steal, we ended up only using them for prototypes because they were clearly old pulls despite being sold as New Old Stock and most of them were stamped.... 1987.

Looks like you are using their chip just for button debouncing? I know Maxim gear isn't cheap, have you considered doing that in the microcontroller or using a cheap ATtiny or something to handle that instead?

Thanks, @maxvapor710 . I try to source my stuff from Mouser or Digikey whenever possible for exactly this reason. My first batch of the Maxim 6816 chips came from Mouser, my next batch (coming Wednesday) will be from Digikey. I don't think the chips I received are counterfeit, just damaged. Not sure if I damaged them or they came that way, but I will be much more scientific in my approach to handling the next batch, if only to rule out my own clumsiness (and/or inherent electrical charge) as a cause for this issue.

FWIW, I checked in with SDS to get his thoughts on the situation, and he vetted my troubleshooting approach and agreed that the data I gathered seemed to indicate some bad chips. I also confirmed that the several heaters I made that are currently working correctly continue to work correctly: when on and 'quiescent' (not doing anything), the VHF input filter's 'input pin' on the properly functioning heaters reads 1.6V, and the 'output pin' shows 0v. On the ones with chips that are damaged, the filter input and output pins both show ~5V. That seems like a smoking gun to me. I don't see any evidence of functioning input filters becoming damaged, so I think the damage happened either before I assembled them, or through careless handling afterwards. I'm curious how it happened, but I'm mostly interested in finding a resolution and not going through this again.

Although this input filter issue is causing me some unwanted drama at the moment, the project is still on track overall. Most of the heaters I made in my first batch are working fine. I shipped my first Deluxe to a US-based field tester yesterday (!), and I'll be shipping the remaining Deluxes from this first batch to my other field testers/early adopters in Canada, Europe, and Australia today and tomorrow.

Thanks again, all, for your support and patience while I get these heaters ready for their debut!

Hi all,

Just want to offer a very quick, on-point post about international shipping charges, just so no one is surprised: International shipping is costly.

I researched shipping Deluxes to Canada and Australia today. For int'l shipping purposes, consider the Deluxe and its charger will fit in a box that is ~15cm x ~10cm x ~10cm. The weight is approx. 0.68kg.

All figures below are in USD$, and reflect residential shipping addresses.

Point of origin: San Francisco, California.

US Postal Service:
Canada (Montreal): $26 Int'l Priority
Australia (South Australia): $37 Int'l Priority

UPS:
UPS Standard Service to Montreal: $32
Not available to South Australia

UPS Expedited Services:
$60+ to Montreal
$100+ to South Australia

DHL:
Canada (Montreal): $95+
Australia (South Australia) ~$140+

I did not price out FedEx.

That's what I've found so far, so FYI. There may be ways to do this more cheaply - and I have not priced EUR or the UK yet - but I'm not finding this to be a particularly cheap thing to ship outside of the US. Canada isn't too bad, but it gets ugly from there. Sorry.

mr_cfromcali said:

Hi all,

Just want to offer a very quick, on-point post about international shipping charges, just so no one is surprised: International shipping is costly.

I researched shipping Deluxes to Canada and Australia today. For int'l shipping purposes, consider the Deluxe and its charger will fit in a box that is ~15cm x ~10cm x ~10cm. The weight is approx. 0.68kg.

All figures below are in USD$, and reflect residential shipping addresses.

Point of origin: San Francisco, California.

US Postal Service:
Canada (Montreal): $26 Int'l Priority
Australia (South Australia): $37 Int'l Priority

UPS:
UPS Standard Service to Montreal: $32
Not available to South Australia

UPS Expedited Services:
$60+ to Montreal
$100+ to South Australia

DHL:
Canada (Montreal): $95+
Australia (South Australia) ~$140+

I did not price out FedEx.

That's what I've found so far, so FYI. There may be ways to do this more cheaply - and I have not priced EUR or the UK yet - but I'm not finding this to be a particularly cheap thing to ship outside of the US. Canada isn't too bad, but it gets ugly from there. Sorry.

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You should look into USPS First-Class Package International Service™, I've simulated a 200$ package of 2 pounds sent to France and the cost was 23.50$.

^ Second the request to look into USPS for domestic and international. It’s what many (all I know of) the US makers and craftsmen of our stuff use. I immediately thought of Ed’s TNT, he uses USPS Priority Mail flat-rate and USPS First Class International and I know that he’s done the research and he’s a one-man shop & been doing this a long time. He’s a kind soul and always happy to help, maybe DM & ask what he thinks?

UPS/FED EX suck for international AFA the small guy IME, may be better for big businesses, idk.

DHL have been pretty reasonable and fast for shipping around Europe, IME. But apparently they don’t like shipping to Canada, lol! To be fair, postage and shipping is expensive in and around Canada, period. Good to know Mr_C is finding the best options to get these fluxers global!

FWIW I use the Canada Post equivalent of First Class International to send stuff to the States on a regular basis and haven't had any issues. I also receive lots of packages in Canada via First Class International. Definitely makes shipping a little more palatable.

Back with an update, and some good news: As some of you know, I have been absolutely stymied for the last couple of weeks trying to get the VHF filter - aka switch debouncing circuit - to work as expected. My battle with it ate up all of my spare time the last few weeks. It was a truly frustrating experience, especially since things had been going so smoothly to that point.

The good news is that I now have a better solution, one that does a better job for my needs. It takes nothing away from @stardustsailor 's design, as until he made me aware of the issue I was completely oblivious to the problem. I've now studied it a bit, and after trying in vain to get the MAX6816EUS chip to work in the context of the Deluxe, I think this new method is going to be a better solution. The new filter is called an RC debounce circuit, and it does the task we need it to do in a very un-fussy way. The variant I'm using requires fewer components than the previous solution, and the components it does use are completely passive. it also does not require a separate power supply, which was proving to be an unexpected heat source at idle. It's also analog, which is fine for this application. The capacitor and resistor in the circuit work together to make a buffer that smooths out the signal from the tactile switch. Their values determine the length of the delay and voltage of the output signal. It's simple, and it's been proven over time to work in the real world.

I used an online RC debounce calculator to work out the appropriate values, and after a little trial and error, I settled on 33uF / 16V aluminum electrolytic capacitor, and a .25W 4.7k resistor, providing about 70ms of debounce buffer. The MAX6816EUS chip provided 40ms of debounce buffer, so in addition to the other benefits, this method may also be safer.

I've built it, I've tested it, and I like it. I expect to use this method going forward, and have ordered the parts to slot it into my existing PCBs - both Deluxes and Mother Fluxers.

Woo hoo! I have a solution that solves multiple problems, and we all win with it! And I can finally start making heaters again.

Off to bed. More later.

These heaters look really promising. Thanks for your hard work and transparency.

I’m thinking of getting a Flux Deluxe. Are there any particular batteries you recommend using with these? When looking into 18650 batteries there seems to be a variety of voltages, button types and mAh available.

Also, is there any reason (other than battery compatibility) to consider the Mother Deluxe instead? I’ve only read the last few pages of this thread so apologies if these questions have already been answered.

Thanks!

bvb said:

These heaters look really promising. Thanks for your hard work and transparency.

I’m thinking of getting a Flux Deluxe. Are there any particular batteries you recommend using with these? When looking into 18650 batteries there seems to be a variety of voltages, button types and mAh available.

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Thanks for your kind words. As far as I know, any standard, garden-variety 18650 battery will work. I have had good success with Sony VT6s lithium-polymers, which are 3,000 mAh. They have proven to be reliable and they have a good capacity. Sony explicitly prohibits their use for vaping, so when a shop like illumn.com sells them, it's with a blind eye towards how they will be used.

There have been some very high capacity 18650 batteries released recently - 4,000mAh and even 5,000mAh. I have not tried them and cannot personally recommend them, but maybe someone else can speak about them? I will just add that mAh = Milliamp Hours, which is a measurement of battery electric power over time. mAh is commonly used to describe the total amount of energy a battery can store at one time. A battery rated for more mAh will power a device for a longer amount of time than one with fewer mAh, given the same usage pattern.

Also, is there any reason (other than battery compatibility) to consider the Mother Deluxe instead? I’ve only read the last few pages of this thread so apologies if these questions have already been answered.

Thanks!

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Well...it has a greater capacity, which is the chief benefit of the 26650, though as you read above, 18650 batteries keep advancing, so that may be less relevant than it once was. The Mother Fluxer is a very powerful heater. When fully charged, it can heat a vapcap as quickly as 3-4 seconds (this falls to 4-6 seconds as the batteries come off their peak). The Mother Fluxer is bigger, and it has more room (and air!) inside, so it has an easier time managing heat than the Deluxe. It also has a nice, bright lighting effect when in use, which looks cool, IMHO.

Electronically, the two heaters are identical, and their only real difference (apart from their batteries) is that the Deluxe uses surface mount device (SMD) components, while the Mother Fluxer uses larger sized through-hole components.

Hope that helps.

Hi all,

Some updates:

Field testing is underway for the Deluxe, and I am already receiving some very useful feedback, which I am applying back to the design. Thank you, field testers!

I discussed the new input filter/debouncing circuit in my the last post, so I won't really revisit it here except to say that the first field test units were sent with the previous circuit - as the new circuit didn't exist yet - so I will be sending out some revisions soon so we can properly test the new circuit. It is a simpler, safer circuit that doesn't require a separate power supply (certainly some sibilance in that sentence!), so it's unlikely to cause any further issues, but it still needs to be tested. I may have a bit more to say about it - - but I'm saving that for a future post.

The main thing I want to talk about in this post is heat! As my field testers are reporting, these little heaters are pretty good at heating things. To keep you safe and allow it to work for a long time, the heaters have thermal fuses that will shut them down if they get too hot. Too hot means a work coil temperature greater than 110°C (the sensor is positioned to be within 1mm of the work coil). This feature is bound to annoy some people, but it's there for your safety.

Remember, this is a full power heater in a very small package. Treat it with respect, as you would treat a sharp knife. Or a hot Dynavap.

You can absolutely use this device to heat your Dynavap session after session, but if you plan on going "full Reefer Madness" with it in a short period of time, you will probably need to lift its lid occasionally to vent some of its heat. Blame physics, not me. For that matter, you can also use it with the lid off, and it will be fine. In any event, the keys to using this device for longer sessions are to either slow down a bit, and/or occasionally lift the lid.

If you leave the lid on, the heater will get hot, and you will likely hit the thermal limit before you would like to. "Hitting the thermal limit" presents itself as a loss of power until the fuse cools down. The thermal fuse is tied directly to the positive power lead, so when you cross its limit, you lose power. The thermal fuse makes a soft click when it passes over its heat limit - and you lose power, of course - and it makes another soft click when it cools. Cooling takes ~10 seconds with the lid off. Once cooled, cycle the power to reset it (switch it off, then back on) and it will be ready to go again.

The KSD9700 thermal fuses I use are rated for 10,000 cycles at 5A @ 250V. The Deluxe uses ~5A @ 12V, so you can bounce off of the thermal fuse without too much concern. It is better to manage the heat, though. You don't get any extra points for activating the thermal fuse.

To repeat: This is a full power heater in a very small package! It can get hot, and it has safety features that are intended to keep you (and it) safe. Treat it with respect. If occasionally lifting the lid during a longer session sounds like too much hassle, this device may not be a good fit for you. Just sayin'...



The road ahead: I would like my field testers to have a few weeks to test the current design before I start cranking these out again. I want to make sure these are put through their paces before I make too many units, as I want happy customers and I don't want to discover a need for big revisions once I start making these for real. Please be patient while we find and address those things that need to be fixed!

Finally, despite the hard focus on the Deluxes, I have not forgotten about the Mother Fluxers! I need to build out some Mother Fluxers and get those into the hands of my Mother Fluxer field testers. I can do that now that the debounce circuit is stable. I hope to get to those out by Friday or Saturday. If you agreed to be a Mother Fluxer field tester, I will be in touch with you soon.

Thanks again for the outstanding support you have shown me in this thread! I think these heaters are coming along nicely, in no small part fo the advice you have shared with me. Thank you! I am confident these will make at least some of you happy when you finally get the chance to have one in hand.

Here are a few pics of the Deluxe with the larger vent holes. Keen-eyed observers of this project may spot the new input buffer circuit in the "circuitry exposed" pic, immediately to the right of the PWM relay's blue PCB:











Cheers!

Do you think that maybe a black, permanent marker used on the perimeter / rim of the holes might make them less visually obtrusive?

.