The Tempest by Mad Heaters & Phatpiggie

Brenyo

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
The ball screen twists in on fine threads and as I found out tonight it very much so can undo itself overtime or somehow dislodge itself, I'm curious if I missed a step at the start because the head is one piece I haven't messed with at all 😕
The most important thing is that there has to be some friction between the screen and the thread when you screw it in. It can only come undone if the screen is slightly curved from being overtightened or if it wasn’t flat before installing. I don’t think there is any way for it to come undone if there is friction between them, even after dropping it. Normally, you shouldn’t even have to keep an eye on it.
 

HaggisHunter

Well-Known Member
First heartache tonight with the tempest
@Brenyo

I want to start by saying I love this device but is this normal?

I keep my device clean, change mesh everyday, give ultra socic bath every 3 days without the head of course, I've never gotten around to cleaning the head the way I'd like because frankly I've been afraid to take it apart 😅 with the vi in all.

Anyway, I was sitting down watching a movie enjoying my tempest like I do every night, took my tempest and debowler up, unscrewed the lid and all the balls with my AVB came flying out the bottom and onto my lap. 😠

This was not an enjoyable experience to say the least but let's just say thankfully the kids were in bed so that danger was avoided.

I've no idea how many balls I'm supposed to have if someone could let me know.

But this can't be normal is this happening anyone else, I bought this for safety as I didn't want a ball vape downstairs with the toddler but I've never had anything as scary happen to me with any device as what happened tonight.

Have I done something wrong @Brenyo ? Am I supposed to be taking the head apart and reassembling often?

How can this be avoided from happening again
The aftermath 😠
Glad everything was ok, been using mine since November, can't say I've had that happen to me.

The tempest is the only device I use now, it's used several times a day, when done I always give the cap a good shake/tap as I want to make sure there's nothing stuck in there.
There has been times where I think there is more rattle from the balls, so I tighten the screen, but I find I can only tighten it by the tiniest amount, and I never force it, only let it come to its own natural stop.
This tells me that despite the amount of carrying in pockets, thrown about in rucksacks while on a bike, tapping after use etc, it's definitely staying put in mines so I'm confident with the design.

It feels more secure screwed in, than it would be of it were a push/snap fit like a Dynavap CCD etc.

I'm a mechanic, I'm used to seeing things work loose that shouldn't, so do I try to be a bit more preventative, like checking these things more regularly than others might, even then I'm not checking mine too often.

As far as buying a vape for safety, they're all dangerous to some degree.
Safety of others comes down to the responsibility of the user in the end, my wife reminded me of that 4 years ago after a mishap of my own.
Not having a go there, it is what it is.

It's a no.2 micro screwdriver that fits the screen, I have a micro screwdriver set I keep nearby as it was easier/less messy than removing the screwdriver from the reload.
But now I have another reload, so have the screwdriver for that one on the vape tray all the time now.
 
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TheScamericann

Active Member
First heartache tonight with the tempest
@Brenyo

I want to start by saying I love this device but is this normal?

I keep my device clean, change mesh everyday, give ultra socic bath every 3 days without the head of course, I've never gotten around to cleaning the head the way I'd like because frankly I've been afraid to take it apart 😅 with the vi in all.

Anyway, I was sitting down watching a movie enjoying my tempest like I do every night, took my tempest and debowler up, unscrewed the lid and all the balls with my AVB came flying out the bottom and onto my lap. 😠

This was not an enjoyable experience to say the least but let's just say thankfully the kids were in bed so that danger was avoided.

I've no idea how many balls I'm supposed to have if someone could let me know.

But this can't be normal is this happening anyone else, I bought this for safety as I didn't want a ball vape downstairs with the toddler but I've never had anything as scary happen to me with any device as what happened tonight.

Have I done something wrong @Brenyo ? Am I supposed to be taking the head apart and reassembling often?

How can this be avoided from happening again
The aftermath 😠
The head of the device definitely needs to be cleaned way more than folk seem to be suggesting. After taking the ball screen out you need to make sure its screwed back in tightly. Folk really should be checking the ball screen is installed correctly after every clean and they should be checking that it's not came loose after every use. I've had zero issues with mine and ive been cleaning mines twice a week, tip and all. There should be an area on the ball screen that is raised, i thought mines was damaged but it designed like this so it screws into the threads in the tip more easily.
 

rebelFarmer

Well-Known Member
First heartache tonight with the tempest
@Brenyo

I want to start by saying I love this device but is this normal?

I keep my device clean, change mesh everyday, give ultra socic bath every 3 days without the head of course, I've never gotten around to cleaning the head the way I'd like because frankly I've been afraid to take it apart 😅 with the vi in all.

Anyway, I was sitting down watching a movie enjoying my tempest like I do every night, took my tempest and debowler up, unscrewed the lid and all the balls with my AVB came flying out the bottom and onto my lap. 😠

This was not an enjoyable experience to say the least but let's just say thankfully the kids were in bed so that danger was avoided.



How can this be avoided from happening again
The aftermath 😠
This happens to me sometimes, the answer imo is to use the reload only for all operations for loading and unloading, then when it happens the balls dump into the reload with your abv. It is annoying to separate the two but not the end of the world.

I don't think this happens because of the head getting dirty, I have ran mine very dirty and very clean, I think it is the nature of the design and I seem to remember it was also a risk of being over torqued at some point. The locking mechanism for the ballscreen is not really as refined as it could be. Ideally a system with some kind of stop or positive feedback would eliminate the concern and make it obvious that it is seated fully, that or a simple false bottom (or second ball screen, like using a second nut as a locking nut on critical applications outside).

Love the device, use it daily, it sucks when this happens and I have had it happen a few times.
 

Brenyo

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
After taking the ball screen out you need to make sure its screwed back in tightly.
It shouldn’t be screwed in tightly, that’s how it will come undone for sure after a while.

Ideally a system with some kind of stop or positive feedback would eliminate the concern and make it obvious that it is seated fully, that or a simple false bottom
Remove a few balls (1-5pcs) and then you can screw it in until full stop.
A slightly thicker screen would have more friction, probably that would be the ideal solution for a more secure screen, however I think the current one works well as long as it’s installed correctly. The thicker one would also come undone if it’s overtightened or if there’s no friction.
 

VapingYogi

Pranayama; of a sort.
There’s a bunch of posts regarding how hot the stem can get to when using it and as someone who routinely does back to back bowls, the heat is multiplied, so I wanted to spend the some time to try the different sleeves that are available for the Tempest and how they handle the heat.

I got a couple of wooden sleeves; I had a glass sleeve from the Reload Gen 2 and the Titanium stem (radiator & heat shield). I also wanted to do the same testing using the Revolve Gen 2 using the original titanium body to get an idea for how comfortable / cool the vapour is compared to how comfortable / cool the stem is; with the Helix tube and Direct Tube separately.

TLDR: Using a wooden sleeve and the Helix tube you get the coolest vapour while having next to no noticeable heat at the airport (in comparison to any other sleeve). The Direct tube significantly decreases the heat transfer to the stem regardless of the sleeve but the vapour is notably warmer - but not hot.

To give me another heat source I also repeated the same tests with the Thermal Accumulator.


Helix tube:

As I said before, most of the heat we feel in the stems comes from the vapour, especially when using the Helix tube which rubs the vapour around the walls of the sleeve, transferring the heat into the sleeve to cool the vapour.

Using the Titanium stem and drawing rather firmly, the stem can heat up quickly. One long powerful draw is enough to start to feel the heat on the airport. By the time the vapour starts to dwindle the airport is hot to the touch, but the hottest part is higher on the stem under the heat shield.

Using the wooden sleeve and doing the same thing, drawing air firmly through the device I was surprised to find that the airport did not noticeably change in temperature. The wood of the sleeve around the airport is raised, so you don’t touch the metal lining and as such you don’t actually feel the heat at the airport like with the titanium stem. The heat is felt mainly in thickest part of the stem closest to the bowl, the wood feels warm, it’s very comfortable even using the TA.

Using the glass sleeve I always knew was going to be inadequate to handle the heat but I wanted to try it anyway. What I noticed is that initially, the vapour was the coolest of all the sleeves I tried. However the 2mm sleeve heats up so fast that it gets hot, not just warm but hot. So hot, so quickly, I didn’t actually finish the bowl, the glass was so to hot to hold. I’m curious about the difference the 3mm glass will make. It was definitely the coolest and tastiest vapour of all the sleeves, if I was a flavour chaser this is sleeves if want but the 2mm was way to inadequate.

Using the Reload Gen 2, the titanium sleeve was a similar experience to the glass sleeve when using the Tempest, in that it got too hot to use, quite quickly.

I switched the Helix tube for the Direct tube and to be perfectly honest, with the Direct tube I really don’t think heat transfer to the stem - even with the titanium stem - is that significant - in comparison to using the Helix tube and because of that I didn’t worry about the Revolve.

Anyway, for me I just wanted an option to do back to back bowls that was comfortable to the touch and the wooden sleeve with the helix tube (but no secondary cooling unit) is my preferred way to use it.
 

BushRanger

Hit It & Quit It
Could it be gunked up balls start pressuring the screen until it pops out, during heat cycles?
He said he never cleaned the head, as was a little scared about disassemble/assemble...so something was inevitable to happen, without a clean and check from time to time...
 
BushRanger,

RedZep

Well-Known Member
Could it be gunked up balls start pressuring the screen until it pops out, during heat cycles?
He said he never cleaned the head, as was a little scared about disassemble/assemble...so something was inevitable to happen, without a clean and check from time to time...
I think it's improper installation of the screen. I didn't follow Brenyo's instructions when I received mine. I just screwed it in too tight and bent the edges. It affected the security of the screen going forward.

Could be a point of improvement in the future maybe, if possible, as it is a potential accidental point of failure.
 

bupbups

Active Member
The most important thing is that there has to be some friction between the screen and the thread when you screw it in. It can only come undone if the screen is slightly curved from being overtightened or if it wasn’t flat before installing. I don’t think there is any way for it to come undone if there is friction between them, even after dropping it. Normally, you shouldn’t even have to keep an eye on it.
How many balls should I have @Brenyo

I have never went near or adjusted the screen, I've been using the head at factory setting.
 
bupbups,

TedJones

Well-Known Member
Are we of the general opinion that 3mm is better than 2.5mm? I noticed a few people have now tried both. Does 3mm confer a noticeable airflow boost?
Ya, imo the 3 are better for DTL and 2.5 for MTL. Thinking a lot of us who had the smaller originally, now using the larger. More noticeable than I first thought after trying the 2.5 again. May use once in awhile.
 

Custom Flower Hardware

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
Had some extra 3mm SiC balls from my flower kettle kit so swapped them out yesterday in the Tempest, 40 of them fit.

Can definitely tell the difference in airflow. Slight heat differences too. I can stop a bit earlier on the VI than the 2.5mm zirc, allowing me to even lower temp on the wand to get desired repeat results. Also seems to hang onto that heat for bit longer. I’m mainly a half bowl user but sure this could come in handy for full bowl ensuring full extraction in one heat. Definitely can kill out the half bowl quicker feels like. Really enjoying it and don’t think I’ll go back to the zirc.

Eagles fan!! Nice!!:tup::rockon:
 

VapingYogi

Pranayama; of a sort.
Are we of the general opinion that 3mm is better than 2.5mm? I noticed a few people have now tried both. Does 3mm confer a noticeable airflow boost?
I am torn.

I have swapped back to the 2mm boro balls instead of 3mm. I find the smaller oven of the Tempest works better with the smaller sized boro balls, the heat just doesn't soak/stick as well with the 3mm balls and the heat transfer to the air is noticeably lower with the 3mm boro compared to the 2mm boro.

The Zrc however I am using 3mm as I find I am more likely to scorch the bowl with 2mm Zrc than 3mm Zrc, the heat is more consistent and stable with the 3mm and the airflow is better - but - I almost completely close the airflow on the cap as a result.

Its interesting, someone else said it, the smaller Zrcs (mine were 2mm) like to be used a a lower temp (first click or middle VI mark) where as the larger Zrc its better to go to the second click/last VI mark and then hit it as it doesn't seem to have the same issues with heat stabilization. With the 2mm if you heat to low the imbalance of heat between the top of the oven and the bottom is noticeable and its much easier to scotch the bowl if you decide to take a couple of really large draws up front... or just because you added to much heat to the bottom of the balls, in this case the top of the oven is going to be significantly cooler and just the radiant heat can scorch the bowl...

At least that's what I am noticing
 
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@Brenyo do you have zic bals in stock? I lost 30 of them when I wanted to detach the VI, suddenly the balls fell out.

*edit*
I got now 79 balls in total and will fill the rest up with ruby. But still I'd like to buy some spare balls.
I had the same issue - screen fell out and lost some balls. Anyone have a tip on where to buy replacements in Europe ? (or other materials ? So hard to find :s )

https://madheaters.co.uk/products/zirconium-balls?_pos=16&_sid=8f1697657&_ss=r Sold out already :(:doh:

follow up question - is Zirconium like Quartz or does it go by other names sometimes ? I found following info about different terp beads / dab balls / whatever you want to call them :p Zirconium is not in the list -

Borosilicate – Redefining the term “better than nothing”, clear glass Terp Beads are the most affordable option and offer the least heat retention but can still provide the added surface area and movement needed to more efficiently vaporize your oil. As with all boro glass, it can and will melt or change shape under intense heat – such as the direct, prolonged flame of a torch - so be aware of that when cleaning your Terp Pearls.

Ceramic – Ceramic Dab Beads or Terp Pearls offer decent heat retention, similar to quartz, and some argue, better flavor. Much like a ceramic dab nail, Terp Pearls made from this material can be hard to keep clean and are probably the most fragile of all the materials on this list. They cannot be torch cleaned as they will likely break. Allowing them to completely cool down is the safest way to keep them intact, making them hard to keep sparkling clean.

Quartz – If you are dabbing then you are probably pretty familiar with the pros and cons of quartz. Better heat retention and flavor representation are the two main reasons why your banger isn’t made out of boro, but out of quartz. They are also very resistant to thermal shock, so you can go straight from adab to iso with no worries of breakage. That being said, I would still wait for them to cool down a bit before submerging in any liquid as that will speed of chazzing. They can also be torch cleaned, but again, that will speed up chazzing.

Sapphire & Ruby – Lab grown sapphire and ruby Terp Pearls are known for their superior heat retention and optimal flavor delivery. Some care must be taken when cleaning gemstone Terp Pearls or Dab Beads. If they are still hot or warm, do not submerge them in iso alcohol as this could cause thermal shock and break or damage your Terp Pearl. Similarly, hitting it with the direct flame of a torch could cause shock the other direction, also risking damage or breakage. Like borosilicate, ruby Dab Beads or Terp Pearls can potentially even melt if put under enough sustained heat. Gentle heat, reliable tweezers, and a dry swab works best.

SiC –Silicone carbide has been used industrially for over a century, but its use in the dabbing scene came much more recently. Though they are more closely related to ceramic, these Terp Pearls look like metal and enjoy a similarly superior level of thermal/heat conductivity as well as thermal shock resistance. This makes them easy to clean with a torch flame, an alcohol wipe, or pretty much whatever method you want to use.

Shinju – Made from a ‘sophisticated high temp ceramic material’, Shinju Ceramic Terp Pearls offer the best of all worlds with insane heat retention and the ability to be torch cleaned back to like-new in seconds. The same material appears to be used to make high end chef’s knives, shinju blades stay sharper longer than steel, and that durability definitely carries over to Dab Beads and Terp pearls made from this super-ceramic. Unrivaled heat retention caps off the list of reasons why we love this type of Terp Pearl.
 

BreadStick

Well-Known Member
follow up question - is Zirconium like Quartz or does it go by other names sometimes ? I found following info about different terp beads / dab balls / whatever you want to call them :p Zirconium is not in the list -

Borosilicate – Redefining the term “better than nothing”, clear glass Terp Beads are the most affordable option and offer the least heat retention but can still provide the added surface area and movement needed to more efficiently vaporize your oil. As with all boro glass, it can and will melt or change shape under intense heat – such as the direct, prolonged flame of a torch - so be aware of that when cleaning your Terp Pearls.

Ceramic – Ceramic Dab Beads or Terp Pearls offer decent heat retention, similar to quartz, and some argue, better flavor. Much like a ceramic dab nail, Terp Pearls made from this material can be hard to keep clean and are probably the most fragile of all the materials on this list. They cannot be torch cleaned as they will likely break. Allowing them to completely cool down is the safest way to keep them intact, making them hard to keep sparkling clean.

Quartz – If you are dabbing then you are probably pretty familiar with the pros and cons of quartz. Better heat retention and flavor representation are the two main reasons why your banger isn’t made out of boro, but out of quartz. They are also very resistant to thermal shock, so you can go straight from adab to iso with no worries of breakage. That being said, I would still wait for them to cool down a bit before submerging in any liquid as that will speed of chazzing. They can also be torch cleaned, but again, that will speed up chazzing.

Sapphire & Ruby – Lab grown sapphire and ruby Terp Pearls are known for their superior heat retention and optimal flavor delivery. Some care must be taken when cleaning gemstone Terp Pearls or Dab Beads. If they are still hot or warm, do not submerge them in iso alcohol as this could cause thermal shock and break or damage your Terp Pearl. Similarly, hitting it with the direct flame of a torch could cause shock the other direction, also risking damage or breakage. Like borosilicate, ruby Dab Beads or Terp Pearls can potentially even melt if put under enough sustained heat. Gentle heat, reliable tweezers, and a dry swab works best.

SiC –Silicone carbide has been used industrially for over a century, but its use in the dabbing scene came much more recently. Though they are more closely related to ceramic, these Terp Pearls look like metal and enjoy a similarly superior level of thermal/heat conductivity as well as thermal shock resistance. This makes them easy to clean with a torch flame, an alcohol wipe, or pretty much whatever method you want to use.

Shinju – Made from a ‘sophisticated high temp ceramic material’, Shinju Ceramic Terp Pearls offer the best of all worlds with insane heat retention and the ability to be torch cleaned back to like-new in seconds. The same material appears to be used to make high end chef’s knives, shinju blades stay sharper longer than steel, and that durability definitely carries over to Dab Beads and Terp pearls made from this super-ceramic. Unrivaled heat retention caps off the list of reasons why we love this type of Terp Pearl.
Zirconia is a synthetic ceramic and while quartz is a naturally occurring ceramic. Zirconia's more descriptive name is zirconium dioxide (ZrO2) it's a specific compound made of zirconium and oxygen so it should only really be called zirconia or zirconium dioxide. Quartz is made up of a bunch of SiO2 molecules so it uses a silicon atom instead and probably has a very different crystal structure. The list you posted mentions ceramic and "shinju". Ceramic could mean zironcia but it could also mean something else. Google says shinju is Japanese ceramic so same again.

Here's some links to sites I've found that look to be based in Europe selling what I hope is the right thing.

These links all seem to have a minimum order of 100g so you'd be getting about 12.2 times the amount you'd be buying off the madheaters website so it's not the cheapest option unfortunately.
That 12.2 figure was found by taking the density of zirconia as 5.85 g/cm^3 and calculating the volume of a sphere via (4/3)*pi*r^3 = 0.014cm^3 for a 3mm^3 sphere. Brenyo sells them at 100 balls a bag so 100x5.85x0.014 = 8.19g of balls approximately. 100g/8.19g = 12.21. Jic anyone is interested in my ball analysis :lol:
 
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RedZep

Well-Known Member
Ya, imo the 3 are better for DTL and 2.5 for MTL. Thinking a lot of us who had the smaller originally, now using the larger. More noticeable than I first thought after trying the 2.5 again. May use once in awhile.

I am torn.

I have swapped back to the 2mm boro balls instead of 3mm. I find the smaller oven of the Tempest works better with the smaller sized boro balls, the heat just doesn't soak/stick as well with the 3mm balls and the heat transfer to the air is noticeably lower with the 3mm boro compared to the 2mm boro.

The Zrc however I am using 3mm as I find I am more likely to scorch the bowl with 2mm Zrc than 3mm Zrc, the heat is more consistent and stable with the 3mm and the airflow is better - but - I almost completely close the airflow on the cap as a result.

Its interesting, someone else said it, the smaller Zrcs (mine were 2mm) like to be used a a lower temp (first click or middle VI mark) where as the larger Zrc its better to go to the second click/last VI mark and then hit it as it doesn't seem to have the same issues with heat stabilization. With the 2mm if you heat to low the imbalance of heat between the top of the oven and the bottom is noticeable and its much easier to scotch the bowl if you decide to take a couple of really large draws up front... or just because you added to much heat to the bottom of the balls, in this case the top of the oven is going to be significantly cooler and just the radiant heat can scorch the bowl...

At least that's what I am noticing
I swear this thing is the most Swiss army knife vape ever made. The versatility is getting absurd. I'll grab some 3mm when Brenyo restocks and experiment.

I can see myself having two heads in the future, with very different set ups - the optimal half bowl one hitter, and the full bowl stem sipper.
 

BreadStick

Well-Known Member
Is it not possible to construct a mechanism that makes it impossible for the balls to fall out? I know it won't happen often and it won't be a deal breaker for me but just the possibility of having that happen can kill the vibe.
I think it would be really hard to make it near impossible for the balls to fall out while also keeping it relatively easy to take the balls out for cleaning. You could probably take the heater apart now and replace the ball retaining screen with a bigger mesh screen if you pushed it in from the top so it uses the threads like a ledge. You'd still be trusting the screen to never bend like this so it wouldn't be a perfect solution. Also if you did this you'd have to take about the balls out of the top of the heater for deep cleaning or else just never take the head apart and throw the whole thing into iso every time. This could be fine but I've seen people in this thread saying you need to take the balls out to fully clean them so not sure how big a deal this is.
Maybe the threaded screen could be made slightly bigger so it has more friction against the walls and doesn't turn as easy but this could scratch the head overtime and maybe lead to metal filings in the air path?
I don't think the ball retaining screen is a big problem once you remember to check it every couple of bowls. It's probably not the safest thing and mightn't be a good choice for medical users with mobility issues or any other instance where safety is a major concern. But I think if safety is the number 1 concern something like the tafee bowle or some other regulated electronic vape is gonna be the best choice instead of wielding a sizable hunk of hot metal + ceramic.
Sorry if this message sounds condescending or disregarding of what you said, it for sure would be nice if there was a solution that made it impossible for the ball screen to fall out while keeping it easy to clean the heater. But I also think there's a point where it's our responsibility to keep the device safe for use. I think it's very possible to guarantee that with the current design. I don't think it's possible for the screen to go from secure to falling out over the course of one bowl, if this was the case then I'd have more concern with the design.
 
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VapingYogi

Pranayama; of a sort.
I swear this thing is the most Swiss army knife vape ever made. The versatility is getting absurd. I'll grab some 3mm when Brenyo restocks and experiment.

I can see myself having two heads in the future, with very different set ups - the optimal half bowl one hitter, and the full bowl stem sipper.
Yeah I agree, 2 is the minimum number 😜one with Boro (2mm) one with Zrc (3mm) is where I’m heading 🤫 I as a rule have to have a second one just incase I break it, but in this case, like you said, it would be, for me, a WPA (hopefully the Madheaters one when it’s released) with 2mm Boro and then my native stem with a wooden sleeve and 3mm Zrc.

As easy as the Tempest is the change the configuration and the balls, I don’t want to have to swap them all the time.

Is it not possible to construct a mechanism that makes it impossible for the balls to fall out? I know it won't happen often and it won't be a deal breaker for me but just the possibility of having that happen can kill the vibe.
It’s been 5 months and that’s has only happened once & I got lucky as the balls were so sticky they didn’t bounce.

I understand what your saying but it has been a rare occurrence for me at least

@VapingYogi when you say 2mm balls you want to say 2,5mm? Or really 2mm?
I have 2mm, 2.5mm, 3mm, 4mm boro balls
I have 2.5mm, 3mm, 4mm Zrc balls
I have 2mm, 2.5mm, 3mm, 4mm Rubies and 2.5mm gem cut rubies

I'll be totally honest.... I had to empty out the ones in my Tempest to confirm what I am actually using at the moment - its the 2.5mm boro that's currently in my Tempest.
 
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RedZep

Well-Known Member
Yeah I agree, 2 is the minimum number 😜one with Boro (2mm) one with Zrc (3mm) is where I’m heading 🤫 I as a rule have to have a second one just incase I break it, but in this case, like you said, it would be, for me, a WPA (hopefully the Madheaters one when it’s released) with 2mm Boro and then my native stem with a wooden sleeve and 3mm Zrc.

As easy as the Tempest is the change the configuration and the balls, I don’t want to have to swap them all the time.


It’s been 5 months and that’s has only happened once & I got lucky as the balls were so sticky they didn’t bounce.

I understand what your saying but it has been a rare occurrence for me at least


I have 2mm, 2.5mm, 3mm, 4mm boro balls
I have 2.5mm, 3mm, 4mm Zrc balls
I have 2mm, 2.5mm, 3mm, 4mm Rubies and 2.5mm gem cut rubies

I'll be totally honest.... I had to empty out the ones in my Tempest to confirm what I am actually using at the moment - its the 2.5mm boro that's currently in my Tempest.
Damn...you are the go to guy for ball variation questions then.

I heard someone (might have been you) talking about how Boro beads disseminate and disperse the heat throughout the balls faster than Zirc. Do you think this would make 3mm Boro optimal for a half bowl one hitter set up? I'm leaning towards 3mm Zirc as hits seem smoother than with Boro, and my glass set ups are always really minimalist.
 

VapingYogi

Pranayama; of a sort.
Damn...you are the go to guy for ball variation questions then.

I heard someone (might have been you) talking about how Boro beads disseminate and disperse the heat throughout the balls faster than Zirc. Do you think this would make 3mm Boro optimal for a half bowl one hitter set up? I'm leaning towards 3mm Zirc as hits seem smoother than with Boro, and my glass set ups are always really minimalist.
That's a comment I made - the boro takes the heat and allows it to be transferred to the air much quicker than Zrc (imo) the Zrc seems to want to stabilize the temperature between the balls before it starts to transfer it to the air properly. The Boro imo is better for "quicker" bowls, heat and hit straight away and DTL it in one hit (or 3 depending on your lung capacity) where as the Zrc would be what I picked for a longer session, the "joint" like experience.

That's how I have been using it, on a stem, 3mm Zrc, so I can sit there, take a draw, breath out, say something to my partner, take another hit, the Zrc gives you that extra time... its this same process that makes it feel like with the Zrc its kind of slow to start, you get light vapour the first draw, then it increases to a peak and slowly decreases.

On my WPA and Prophet I like the 2.5mm Boro (annoyed I had to measure them) as I feel like as soon as I remove the heat, the heat is accessible and my first draw has access to the full heat of the oven and get a larger lung full of vapour - but the heat runs out quicker, noticeably so.

As for 3mm vs 2.5mm I think that's a personal choice. My TA3 has 3mm and my Tempest 2.5mm boro... I feel the size better fits the oven.
 

RedZep

Well-Known Member
That's a comment I made - the boro takes the heat and allows it to be transferred to the air much quicker than Zrc (imo) the Zrc seems to want to stabilize the temperature between the balls before it starts to transfer it to the air properly. The Boro imo is better for "quicker" bowls, heat and hit straight away and DTL it in one hit (or 3 depending on your lung capacity) where as the Zrc would be what I picked for a longer session, the "joint" like experience.

That's how I have been using it, on a stem, 3mm Zrc, so I can sit there, take a draw, breath out, say something to my partner, take another hit, the Zrc gives you that extra time... its this same process that makes it feel like with the Zrc its kind of slow to start, you get light vapour the first draw, then it increases to a peak and slowly decreases.

On my WPA and Prophet I like the 2.5mm Boro (annoyed I had to measure them) as I feel like as soon as I remove the heat, the heat is accessible and my first draw has access to the full heat of the oven and get a larger lung full of vapour - but the heat runs out quicker, noticeably so.

As for 3mm vs 2.5mm I think that's a personal choice. My TA3 has 3mm and my Tempest 2.5mm boro... I feel the size better fits the oven.
So you think 3mm Zirc is still a good choice for full bowl, sipping style? My concern was that 3mm would not have the heat capacity for this style, compared to the 2.5mm.

I guess if you still have enough heat capacity to finish the bowl with 3mm, then the extra airflow is worth it alone.
 
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