What exactly does "glass on glass" mean?

vap999

Well-Known Member
Various convection vaporizers claim "glass on glass" design or construction. The term is rarely, if ever, defined and there appears to be no consistency in use of the term. What exactly does this mean, in terms of marketed vaporizers? What should it mean -- what do you assume it means? And what hazards might "glass on glass" or other glass used within heater units entail?

"Glass on glass" does not appear to literally mean that glass is coating or covering glass. Is this term really referring to all-glass air flow -- the air only ever contacting glass within the heater unit -- with only glass or glass-coated components used in the heater to handle air flow? Or, does "glass on glass" refer to the use of ground glass (Gong-type) joints, such those used to connect most whips to many desktop vaporizers (plugging glass onto/into glass)?

Does "glass on glass" mean use of borosilicate, Pyrex or similar high temperature- and temperature change-tolerant glass? What types of glass are appropriate and inappropriate for use in vaporizer heaters? What types are used?

"Glass on glass" (whatever it really means) construction certainly appears to be held in high esteem, particularly in terms of taste. This is understandable, presuming that we're referring to air flow though the heater only ever contacting glass.

But is "glass on glass" safe in the long-term -- will these vaporizers fail (glass fracture inside) after years of use? What about stress cracks? Theoretically, in any solid, particularly one that is brittle (like glass) and subjected to rapid temperature changes (such as rapid cooling from room temperature air flowing over hot glass), cracks are inevitable; along with cracking at interfaces between glass and metal, ceramic or any other material (with different rates of thermal expansion and contraction). Cracks might even be expected, particularly in stressed areas, such as curved glass areas, anchoring points, joints, insufficiently immobilized portions of glass, etc. I realize that temperature swing insensitivity is why borosilicate, Pyrex, etc., glass is used. But do these materials remain unaffected after years of use, wild temperature swings, combined with the vaporizer being moved, maybe even being dropped? How do "glass on glass" or glass coating of heating elements and metal heat exchangers deal with thermally-induced stresses, the different expansion and contraction rates of the glass and metal or ceramic, and theoretically inevitable cracking at the interface where glass covers the heating element?

If you presume "glass on glass" or extensive use of glass is safe, are you presuming that thick glass is being used? How thick must glass be to be safe in vaporizer heating units? What about thin glass coatings, such as might be used on heating elements and air flow paths in some "glass on glass" or other glass vapor path vaporizers?

If glass inside a vaporizer heating unit breaks, how can you tell (other than happening to hear it)? What if you don't notice it's broken or the breakage is just too small (but easily inhaleable)?

I realize many "glass on glass" vaporizers work very well. But will they fail (glass break), if only many years from now, and will this failure be serious health hazards (glass chip inhalation)? [Personally, this is a concern and seems reasonable]. I am just asking questions and not criticizing or calling any "glass on glass" or other glass-using vaporizers unsafe or unworthy. But in looking over various vaporizer Web sites, most are very vague on what "glass on glass" actually means in terms of their construction; and as far as I can tell, many questions about use of glass within convection vaporizer heating units remain unanswered or not yet discussed on FC.
 
vap999,
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vtac

vapor junkie
Staff member
The use of the term usually comes down to a buzz word type selling point for ad copy. If there are any glass parts, the term gets thrown around. Even if it's glass to vinyl tubing.

As for breakage, I think it all depends on the temperatures the glass is exposed to. The SSV's glass heater cover is within millimeters of the element, but both ends are open and the element doesn't need to get that hot. I haven't heard of any heat related breakages.

The VHW's design in this regard is a little more questionable. The glass surrounding the element is closer and has very little ventilation. Since it's the glass itself and not the element that's providing the heat in the air stream, the element needs to get a lot hotter than with the SSV's design. Probably not coincidentally, there have been numerous reports of heat stress breakages. Vriptech has said these issues were related to a resolved tooling issue but time will tell.
 
vtac,

Hippie Dickie

The Herbal Cube
Manufacturer
i describe my vape (The Bud Toaster) as having an "all glass air path".

After using this design for 7 years, i can say borosilicate glass is very stable even after uncountable daily sessions over a year. The "oven" is a 16mm (outside diameter) x 1.5" long test tube. The wall thickness is 1mm. Pretty standard lab glassware test tube.

The oven is wrapped with 24" of 16 ga Nichrome 80 wire. When hit with 12 amps of 6vdc, the oven goes from room temperature to 420F in 20 seconds. A typical session times out after 7 minutes at this setpoint temperature. It can cool back to room temp in about 2 minutes (power off). No stress fractures of any kind have been experienced.

The design i have uses 25 ga stainless steel as an outer shell, with cherry wood end caps (top and bottom). Pretty stoner resistant.

Can the glassware break? yes, the bud vial (12mm x 1 3/8" flat bottom vial) and the stem (13mm x 4" test tube) are removable, and occasionally hit the floor and shatter. They cost less than $0.25 each. Much less of a problem than dropping a glass of wine that breaks. Although the vial can be hot, so you need to use the "less than 1/10 second" pickup technique.

But the oven -- most subjected to heat stress -- does not break.

In my experience, at least. So check the vape design before committing to a "glass on glass" vape.
 
Hippie Dickie,

marcuss

above the clouds
vap999.....we are all here to answer your questions but are you sure these questions are never discussed here?
I know for sure i wrote a lot of words about this argument in various threads here but ehy a focused thread is welcome anyway....:)
Surely confusion come from the highly abused "glass on glass" term and it is true only for few vapes on the market.
I own a Vapolution and it is really glass on glass because you simply put a borosilicate bowl in the glass heater so no other material but glass is touched by the vapor. Its taste IMO is purest than others vaporizers that claim a all glass vapor path but use metal screens or heating element not covered with glass.
My Herbo is a glass vape but the stainless heating element is in the vapor path and there is a steel screen in the bowl also so i call it a "steel on glass" vaporizer......its taste is amazing, smooth(water filtration) and you can make some bong-like clouds but i can feel a slight difference compared to the Vapo especially in the first three hits for a high vapor to air ratio in the Vapolution that give me a more concentrate and precise flavor when i'm testing some new strain.
I do not believe that ceramic and glass are the same for taste because my papilla gustativa say to me that the ceramic heater in my SSV affects the herb taste especially after the first two hits so IMO a "ceramic on glass" vape like SSV or DBV or Extreme is good for deliver monster hits but not for gourmet purpose.

Obviously if glass drops on the floor it breaks....but i don't think that a "boro" glass can be damaged by heat exchanges..it is born for that...i plan to see my Herbo on the magic table for a long time :lol: The Injector glass is really thick and if some little breakage occours you can see it!

A good vape does't need to be ALL GLASS to do its work but I do like glass for its neutral taste and appeal.
It is fragile but not that fragile to break it and inhale glass debrids after years of usage....anyway time will tell us the truth!

Hippie dickie can show us your bud toaster?? I'm really curious!
 
marcuss,

Hippie Dickie

The Herbal Cube
Manufacturer
marcuss - i've gotten really obsessed with completing this version (i seem to roll out a new model or version every 3 to 6 months) - the prototype isn't that interesting to look at -- looks too much like a bomb -- so thread/pictures pending (or as we say in the software biz, "real soon now").

However, concerning the metal screen. For several years, before i got a 0.75mm diamond drill bit for my Dremel so i could drill holes in the end of the test tubes and therby eliminate the metal screen, i found the screen absorbed the most heat from the air flow -- it turns into a hot plate. So, it seems to me, ANY vape that has the bud resting on a metal screen (including the Volcano) is essentially the same design as the dreaded BC Vape. And, in my mind, the "only" problem with the BC Vape is that the air flow is not focused enough.
 
Hippie Dickie,

vap999

Well-Known Member
Some misc. comments.

With glass, without very good engineering, such as use of very thick glass, failure seems inevitable, whether after years or decades of use or one bad drop on the floor. Having glass parts removable, inspectable, replaceable, etc. is obviously the way to go. I would have no concerns using such a vaporizer.

I would be concerned about vaporizers that use glass inside their heaters and it is not visible, not inspectable, not replaceable, etc. If these fail, they do not seem likely to fail safe, with inhalation of glass a possibility.

I would be most concerned with any vaporizers using glass-on-metal, with glass coating (poured onto) the outside of heating elements and the inner surfaces of internal piping, particularly if the glass were not inspectable. With the difference in expansion rates between glass and metal, failure of the glass seems inevitable. Are there any such vaporizers on the market?
 
vap999,

Clear_Dome

Vaporhead
Glass Blower
glass on glass is the best imo , the scientis use it since years and years . Also most of the glass joints used in the vaporiser/smoking accesories cheap made , thin , poorly anealed and of course made in china and this is the main reason why those are so fragile . I'm pretty sure you can drop fiew times some good german/usa made glass on glass joints made of borosilicat
:2c:
 
Clear_Dome,

vap999

Well-Known Member
Clear_Dome said:
glass on glass is the best imo , the scientis use it since years and years . Also most of the glass joints used in the vaporiser/smoking accesories cheap made , thin , poorly anealed and of course made in china and this is the main reason why those are so fragile . I'm pretty sure you can drop fiew times some good german/usa made glass on glass joints made of borosilicat
:2c:
Clear_Dome:

By "glass on glass," I presume you are referring to a full or optimized glass air path. Earlier in this thread, VTAC rather well characterized the current common use of the term -- as a largely meaningless promotional buzz word, indicative of glass use, with few users ever defining what the term means.

As an artist with glass as your medium, do you have much experience with borosilicate glass? Would you consider high-quality borosilicate glass used within a vaporizer heater prone to inevitable failure (will it eventually break, even under normal use; Does it break when working with it)? Or is this glass so inherently temperature stress-adaptive that stress-related breakage (from combined temperature differentials and mechanical stresses, such as at bends, mounting points and joints) is not a real concern?
 
vap999,

Mark

John Brown
The only meaning for glass on glass means that there is a ground male glass piece going into a ground female joint. (At least 'till you start talking about glass on glass on glass and such)

Full glass pathways or other things would be advertised differently.

(oops, did I post to late? I got this thread mixed up with another on and thought it was new.)
 
Mark,
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