Vaping and Recovering from Surgery

pngwyn

Well-Known Member
So I have been recovering since last August on a foot surgery (bone fusion).. about 3 months after they gave me the green light to start walking on it again, and then they said it was looking worse after about a month and now I just started walking again about another 3 months later.

Doc asked me a lot of questions pertaining to why my healing might be slowed, lack of sleep, sun, *smoking*.. I am wondering could I have possibly screwed up my own recovery by vaping all the time?

I don't know if it's in the same league, or what causes cigarette smoke to slow the healing process (I assumed it was nicotine, but I'm not sure).. might be a long shot, but does anyone have experience in this field?

Should I lay off the THC? I read something about CB2 receptors being part of the immune system and MJ affecting that, but I haven't been able to find any solid evidence saying it will hinder my recovery.
 
pngwyn,

momofthegoons

vapor accessory addict
I can't speak from a scientific standpoint, but I have had several orthopedic surgeries (including knee replacement) in the last ten years, so I feel like I can address this. I don't feel that mj inhibited any type of healing. It made the healing process bearable. And I was combusting back then, so IMO, if there were negative effects they would have been more pronounced. It helped with the pain, for sleep, for boredom (I was also stuck in the house for extended periods with these surgeries).

I can add to this a period of time that I was on a form of chemo for Hep C. The drugs I took made my skin so dry that it would split on my hands. I used a hemp based lotion to help with that. And mj, as I've said in another post, is probably the sole thing that got me through that difficult period of treatment. It did not impair the treatment at all and I am considered cured now.

My feeling is that your surgery was probably one that left you in a position where you were supposed to be non weight bearing? And you probably put some weight on that foot occasionally? If so, that is enough, right there, to impede healing. Stress and lack of sleep are other things that can impede healing, and this is probably why your doctor was asking all the questions. Cigarette smoke has been found to impair healing in studies, and I think that it probably applies to combusting mj too. But I've got to believe that vaping is healthier in this aspect too. Here's an article that I found that tries to explain the cigarette/healing problem pretty well, IMO:

http://www.trdrp.org/research/PageGrant.asp?grant_id=2092

Hope you're feeling better soon!
 
momofthegoons,

WatTyler

Revolting Peasant
pngwyn said:
......Doc asked me a lot of questions pertaining to why my healing might be slowed, lack of sleep, sun, *smoking*.. I am wondering could I have possibly screwed up my own recovery by vaping all the time?

I don't know if it's in the same league, or what causes cigarette smoke to slow the healing process (I assumed it was nicotine, but I'm not sure).. might be a long shot, but does anyone have experience in this field? ......
You doc is your friend, who wants your foot better. You should ask them. I'm sure he/she encounters far worse than a bit of THC abuse on a daily basis- I'd be dumbfounded if you had anything to fear from a doc breaking his/her patients confidence for it- their role is to heal, and not implement goverment policy (unless they believed someone was at risk maybe?, such as a dependent?, but even then they'd surely have a hard time maintaining professional credibility if they broke patient confidence on these grounds for vaping mj ). I'd certainly be open about vaping habits with my doc in the interests of getting the best treatment- even if it meant saying that I'm vaping everyday, but have no intention of stopping- at least then they are in the most informed position to tackle the problem and get you back into health. :2c:
 
WatTyler,

momofthegoons

vapor accessory addict
You doc is your friend, who wants your foot better.

In a perfect world. I have more doctors than I can count. Only one of them would I consider "my friend," and unfortunately, he died. The rest of them range from decent to terrible (in attitude). The terrible ones are history.
I don't know how it is in the U.K., maybe the doctors there are more knowledgeable or less conservative. I find my doctors to be on the conservative side. The one that I go to for pain management will test you if he suspects that you use, and then will not prescribe pills for pain. Now, many would say, "why don't you just change doctors?" It's not that easy. My pain doctor is considered the best in his field, and I would have to agree that he is very good. He just doesn't subscribe to the same opinion on mj as I do. He is also on my insurance plan. I am not going to change doctors only based on his opinion on mj if I am satisfied with the rest of my treatment and end up with a doctor that is not as good, but thinks mj is okay.

Then there was the doctor who treated me for HepC. He clearly hated my guts from the moment he met me. Unfortunately, he was also the best hepatologist in the area and I am one of the very few that have cleared the virus. Should I have traded this doctor for one that was inferior just because we didn't like each other?
 
momofthegoons,

Cleanfiend

Well-Known Member
Hello. I have undergone spinal surgery and used MJ continually throughout the healing process as it helps to take my mind off of any pain or discomfort. I healed rather quickly, given the circumstances, but I cannot attribute it to any specific action/medicine. rather, it is the combination and synergy of the actions/medicines that helped me to heal.

I think we tend to look at MJ through a veil of stigma - and thus are apt to characterize our misfortunes as a product of the said MJ usage. I make efforts to reverse this socialization in my own head, but it lingers nonetheless. What if we were to look at/characterize MJ as a vitamin or herbal supplement? My guess is that people would be less apt to blame MJ for their misfortunes.
 
Cleanfiend,

WatTyler

Revolting Peasant
momofthegoons said:
You doc is your friend, who wants your foot better.
I have more doctors than I can count. Only one of them would I consider "my friend," and unfortunately, he died. The rest of them range from decent to terrible (in attitude)
Ok, perhaps more in the sense of my enemys enemy is my friend. An ally :lol:
...I don't know how it is in the U.K., maybe the doctors there are more knowledgeable or less conservative......
I expect we're all on a par in western medicine wrt general practise knowledge and the way it is shared. Access to resources might be different, and I think some of the US specialists are top in their fields. Conservative attitudes.... - I'd say perhaps more conservative here towards mj- we're light years behind on the medical mj front. It's generally just considered a soft recreational drug

....The one that I go to for pain management will test you if he suspects that you use, and then will not prescribe pills for pain.
Test you for MJ? That's pretty full on to with-hold treatment on that basis, granted. I'd guess that there must be some difference in medical ethics, because I think it's unlikely that a doc here could with-hold treatment on that basis unless there was perhaps some kind evidence of an ongoing substance abuse problem. Is there some kind of over ruling council in the US that sets medical standards and assess a doctors work? It strikes me that a doctor would be stepping over some line to with-hold treatment for use of an unrelated substance, based upon his own personal moral judgement.

He just doesn't subscribe to the same opinion on mj as I do..... .....Then there was the doctor who treated me for HepC. He clearly hated my guts from the moment he met me. Unfortunately, he was also the best hepatologist in the area and I am one of the very few that have cleared the virus. Should I have traded this doctor for one that was inferior just because we didn't like each other?
His liking you had little to do with combating the problem ultimately. Likewise the doctors opinion on the use of marijuana shouldn't come into play, at least with an ethical doctor, unless he genuinely believes (in a way that would stand up to scrutiny) that it is relevent to the ailment/treatment.

Ultimately this judgement can only be made if the information about mj use is shared, and so I'd always share this with my doc. If I felt he misused this knowledge I could, in full confidentiality, raise this with the UK's General Medical Council which could ultimately prevent him practising.

Massive differences between our healthcare systems though. And so far I've been fortunate to avoid too much contact with either. Like you say Mom, and you've had the direct experiences; in a perfect world.

But the power of the herb shouldn't be underestimated. And that's not necessarily stigma as suggested in the post above. Even commonly available and widely used herbal remedies and supplements have the potential to interact with prescribed medication and treatments. And MJ is actually a super powerful medicine, as many patients will testify, with wide ranging physiological effects (more so than many medications).

I think anecdotally in a majority of cases there aren't any serious negative interactions with MJ self medication and conventional treatments, but that's not to say there aren't any. I even think there is probably a significant potential for non-beneficial interactions at some level with certain treatments, in that efficacy might be moderated

So on this basis I would certainly be sharing the info with my doc. :2c:
 
WatTyler,

LivingInSpin

Active Member
Don't know about the UK, or smoking cigs affect on healing, though smoking anything is often used as a convenient boogeyman.
 
LivingInSpin,

Vaporisateur

Senior Marijuanist
Cleanfiend said:
Hello. I have undergone spinal surgery and used MJ continually throughout the healing process as it helps to take my mind off of any pain or discomfort. I healed rather quickly, given the circumstances, but I cannot attribute it to any specific action/medicine. rather, it is the combination and synergy of the actions/medicines that helped me to heal.

+1 I had a spinal cord tumor partially removed from L2 to S2 in the lumbar area and used MJ throughout the 6 months recovery and beyond to cope with the pain, anxiety, lack of appetite and sleep. I was too combusting back then. I am far from thinking that it negatively interfered with my healing process. I am totally functionnal now, even though I still have chronic pain manageable with MJ.
 
Vaporisateur,

pngwyn

Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the informative replies. I guess I didn't really think it was slowing my healing, but I just wanted to rule everything out because the wait is dreadful. I was non-weight bearing and the doc ok'ed me to start physical therapy which got pretty intense, my guess is something in that process messed up my foot.

Guess I'll keep enjoying :) Cheers

Don't surgeons have a record of successful and unsuccessful surgeries? My thought was if I told my doc I vaped MJ he would just tell me to stop regardless of his knowledge on the subject..
 
pngwyn,

WatTyler

Revolting Peasant
pngwyn said:
Don't surgeons have a record of successful and unsuccessful surgeries? My thought was if I told my doc I vaped MJ he would just tell me to stop regardless of his knowledge on the subject..

He most likely would I reckon, if only on a precautionary basis just to minimise the variables. But then my position is that you don't need to take all their advice- lets face it- they always say less smoking, drinking, caffine, fat.....fun. Depends on the severity of the condition I suppose as to how far you follow their advice.

But I'm in the clear minority here first of all because I think it is perfectly plausible that MJ may interact on some level with other meds (rather than the bodys own healing per se), and only a medical professional understanding the treatments can really say. But also I do sense a difference in the level of trust with our doctors though. It could just be personal (I've never really discussed it with friends in uk), but I also wonder if it's some kind of result of the differing health care systems. I can't quite fathom where the mistrust comes from- is it because of the way US healthcare is dependent on insurance schemes and associated conditions (and companys always looking for an 'out')? Or is it more a fear of the state/big brother getting access to your personal medical files? I guess from what mom said that also there's a lot of variability between providers and that it is possible for a doctor to virtually refuse to treat someone (properly in full) who doesn't play by their own personal rules. I wonder if there is more consistency between doctors under the UKs universal National Health Service (NHS) system? I dunno, I know it is still pretty inconsistent here too. I don't know the answer, or if there is any real difference in general perspective or if it's just me. But it has caught my interest.

But I hope you get better quicker anyway pngwyn. That's looonng time to have a foot outta action. Pretty impossible not to vape a lot in that situation, I think. Keep enjoying :)


(edit-spelling)
 
WatTyler,

VaporEyeSore

Active Member
In febuary 2010 i broke my leg in 30 places snowboarding. The whole of last year up until 7 weeks ago iwas combusting MJ and tabacco. My recovery was slow and was told i needed a bone graft this year in march. The surgeon i had for the bone graft was different to the original one i saw and much better. He went through everything that might of slowed it down.

In the end he decided it was the tabacco that had slowed the bone growth and made it necessary to have a bone graft (something about about smoking tabacco closes the small blood capilaries around the break that are needed to form bone) something my previous surgeon had not told me.

Last year after the accident I needed strong opiate painkillers which supressed my appitite and i lost 2 stone in 3 months then got back on MJ and put on 3 stone in 2 months :)

I decided to tell my docter this before having the graft this year and he said fine no problem smoke as much weed as you want but i must give up tabacco if i want the bone graft to take. He told me that nicktene patches would be ok but NOT smoking it.

Its a shame we have no medical MJ here in the uk as im sure he would have prescribed it if he could. But anyway now i have given up nicotene AND discovered vaping so all is good :) .
Sorry to hear about your problem pngwyn but hold on in there patience a bit of positiveness and a bit of mj will get you through it. Believe me i know how you feel :)
 
VaporEyeSore,

momofthegoons

vapor accessory addict
What I read on this thread:

http://fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?id=5336

speaks to why our doctors might not have the "right attitude" towards mj. Couple that with what I call the "God complex" and you have a problem with your health care provider. Here in Michigan, there are many who are not on the medical bandwagon and thereby are considered users of street drugs. The medical providers that I have encountered have a poor view of street drugs in general and this helps explains why mj is looked at in such a negative light by them. They learn this crap in medical school, and if the doctor has had no personal experience with mj, they cannot see the ridiculousness of what they have been told. There are many who are afraid of mj and think of it as a hard drug. One of my best friends is a nurse and I've been trying for years to get her to understand that mj should not be classified in this way. She feels it impairs you too much and that the only excuse for using it is if you are dying. Now how ridiculous is that?
 
momofthegoons,

Magic9

Plant Enthusiast
I'll echo what momofthegoons said. if you tell your Dr., most likely he'll mark you down as a drug addict. Therefore, any narcotic painkillers you may need, will be withheld due to your "abuse history". How's that for the Hippocratic oath? Some Drs. are more understanding, and I'm not sure how it all works in the various MMJ states though. Better safe than sorry.

There was an issue with veterans being denied pain meds for MMJ usage by the VA about a year ago. Luckily, they finally saw the light. It still disgusts me that this is even an issue for any adult in the privacy of their own home.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/24/health/policy/24veterans.html
 
Magic9,
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