Vape Pen Siezed USPS

Rabbitt6968

New Member
HI I AM IN A BIT OF A PANIC. I LEFT 1/2 a pax pen in my hotel in Texas. The hotel shipped it to me and called to say it was siezed in Texas via USPS. I addamently claimed that was not mine and they must have sent the wrong one because mine was tobacco. I live in NC and have never been in trouble in my life. Do you think they will arrest me?
 

Madri-Gal

Child Of The Revolution
HI I AM IN A BIT OF A PANIC. I LEFT 1/2 a pax pen in my hotel in Texas. The hotel shipped it to me and called to say it was siezed in Texas via USPS. I addamently claimed that was not mine and they must have sent the wrong one because mine was tobacco. I live in NC and have never been in trouble in my life. Do you think they will arrest me?
Why would they? You can't help what a hotel finds and mails, by mistake.
Take a deep breath, relax, and go vape you something. You're good.
Seriously, no one is looking. Who would ? Texas? You aren't even there. NC? Vape never got there.
USPS? You didn't mail it. I wouldn't advise mailing weed, but in as much as some people do, that's who would get looked at. It wouldn't be worth the resources to worry about 1/2 a pen mailed by a hotel, to someone who wasn't even proven to be the owner. What jury would even look at that? Who'd bother to put it in front of a jury?
It's unfortunate about the vape. Just remember, pack the vapes and sex toys first, leave the towels and bathrobe, but you can keep the mini shampoo and soap. I always grab a couple of tea bags, but don't know why. I have plenty at home.
Love your name, by the way.
 
Last edited:

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
While I agree with the others that prosecutorial discretion would indicate the federal government is unlikely to spend any money to investigate this, if they do, the proof would not be that hard.

They find the pen. They call the shipper. The hotel says they found it in the room and shipped it. (Hopefully. Heaven forfend if the hotel called @Rabbitt6968 first and asked for instructions.) All the normal hotel business records come in and they link the room to the OP. Then, I wonder if there are any partial prints or dna on the device?

Do they care? I don't think so. There have to be hundred of thousands of such events every year and it does not make sense for the federal government to investigate them. The current administration has not increased any real aspect of the drug war as yet and poppin' dime bags on the street corner does not seem to be worth their time.

Of course, when the post office sends a post card or calls, you don't acknowledge anything NOR do you go anywhere to pick it up. Remember the key rule, don't talk to the police. (
)

As to the freaking out, as long as you do as you should from this point forward, what else can you do? You can't go back in time and remember to bring your tobacco vape home so they can't confuse it with the cannabis one. You can't stay in another hotel where the previous person didn't leave their vape for the hotel to find even though you missed it when staying there. You can't go back and change the actual facts to make whatever crazy series of events to cause this mixup result in something that can be reasonably explained with just the right story. Really, at this point, what can you do other than STFU? Good thing that should be enough.
 

Baron23

Well-Known Member
HI I AM IN A BIT OF A PANIC. I LEFT 1/2 a pax pen in my hotel in Texas. The hotel shipped it to me and called to say it was siezed in Texas via USPS. I addamently claimed that was not mine and they must have sent the wrong one because mine was tobacco. I live in NC and have never been in trouble in my life. Do you think they will arrest me?
Do what these guys say:

 

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
Do what these guys say:

For a slightly less scholarly take than my first video and a slightly less...exhortive...take than the one above, these Texas attorneys are awesome. (My favorite is "Pot Brownies" to show off how silly TX is.)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCklobbGa2o8r2TZxyWFrqnQ

The post office still cares about this stuff just a couple years ago.
https://www.uspsoig.gov/sites/default/files/document-library-files/2016/HR-AR-17-001_Redacted.pdf

If anyone does care, it is not going to be a mere possession charge.
https://www.cannalawblog.com/moving-marijuana-across-state-lines-still-a-felony/
 

Baron23

Well-Known Member
For a slightly less scholarly take than my first video and a slightly less...exhortive...take than the one above, these Texas attorneys are awesome. (My favorite is "Pot Brownies" to show off how silly TX is.)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCklobbGa2o8r2TZxyWFrqnQ

The post office still cares about this stuff just a couple years ago.
https://www.uspsoig.gov/sites/default/files/document-library-files/2016/HR-AR-17-001_Redacted.pdf

If anyone does care, it is not going to be a mere possession charge.
https://www.cannalawblog.com/moving-marijuana-across-state-lines-still-a-felony/
haha...liked the musical number....but still like "Shut the Fuck UP" as I'm in the northeast and it takes something that direct to get our attention (you talking to me...you fucking talking to me?!! haha).

Cheers
 

Ramahs

Fucking Combustion (mostly) Since February 2017
Yeah, and if shipping anything illegal, it's never a good idea to use usps in the first place.
It's a better idea to always use private/independent shippers (UPS, FedEx, Etc...). It's still not completely safe, but they most certainly give significantly fewer fucks if there are small amounts of drugs in the boxes.

And if it gets impounded, lost, stolen in transit...then just let it go. Never try to inquire about what might be a lost package, and never check the tracking from home or any device you own.
 
Last edited:

His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
What about probable cause? Even with using the STFU defense could Texas or the Feds (mail as a federal crime) use that PAX as a reason to search the OP's home?

I'm not a lawyer but it seems many of us play one on TV or at least on FC ;)
 

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
What about probable cause? Even with using the STFU defense could Texas or the Feds (mail as a federal crime) use that PAX as a reason to search the OP's home?

I'm not a lawyer but it seems many of us play one on TV or at least on FC ;)
Not really. That would not be enough facts or circumstances that would lead a person of appropriate training and experience to believe a crime has been or is occurring at his house related to those facts. This is a single vape. While a person with a vape for cannabis MIGHT also have cannabis in his home, that would be considered a mere hunch and would not be enough to find probable cause.

For a warrant, the facts and circumstances must evidence a "fair probability" evidence of a crime or contraband would be found in a particular place. Some circuits, including the one covering TX (5th), don't allow a "lengthy chain of inferences" to reach that probability. In my circuit (9th), there was a case where *no* probable cause was found on the facts of:
when based upon the defendant’s known subscription to a child pornography website, unlimited access to the child pornography on the website, defendant’s failure to unsubscribe after two months, and an expert’s opinion that the above necessarily means that defendant would likely be in personal possession of child pornography
But, all that being said, probable cause is a pretty flexible standard. There are profound legal differences between probable cause and reasonable suspicion but the definitions are almost exactly the same. Even comparing the two together (the legal definitions) you wouldn't really be able to gain any sense of how the meanings would be interpreted by the courts. Which brings us back to the actual reason why the OP is not hosed, jumping through all the hoops to get a warrant to get a lesser change (possession) does not make sense from an economic perspective.
 

OF

Well-Known Member
If anyone does care, it is not going to be a mere possession charge.
https://www.cannalawblog.com/moving-marijuana-across-state-lines-still-a-felony/

Ironically, that would not be the OP, right? The Hotel did that........ That (transportation) would be the only Federal interest, possession is a State issue? So, in practical terms, how are they going to serve a Texas warrant on the OP? Assuming Texas really wanted to, of course.

I would not put too much stock in claiming it wasn't mine. Not a good bluff, there's almost certainly finger prints or DNA evidence to prove you a liar if they care to poke enough.

Great discussion even if the OP doesn't see it quite that way. Good stuff from ON.....once again.

Regards to all.

OF
 

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
Ironically, that would not be the OP, right? The Hotel did that........ That (transportation) would be the only Federal interest, possession is a State issue? So, in practical terms, how are they going to serve a Texas warrant on the OP? Assuming Texas really wanted to, of course.

WHY did the hotel mail the vape? Are they just in the business practice of mailing things back to the last guest they find in a room? If so, that's a lot of trust in the competency of hotel staff to clean thoroughly. But, you're right, if the hotel mailed the vape without first communicating with the OP, there would be no intent on the part of the OP to cause the cannabis to be mailed across state lines.

As to the warrant, comity will allow them to perfect the warrant in North Carolina. (Not full faith and credit. NC can determine for themselves if they want to help out TX, they are not forced to under these facts.) Texas would have no power to force a search, they would need to get a warrant from a judge with jurisdiction. For mere possession of a personal use amount, I can't see how they can really write an affidavit that would convince a judge they have probable cause to search in another state. But, as you know, cannabis is illegal federally as well. It if FAR more likely the postal inspector would care than a Texas Ranger (Or, local cop.).

That being said, once the lawyers get involved on procedural matters, things can get sticky.
http://volokh.com/2010/01/08/does-the-fourth-amendment-allow-extraterritorial-state-search-warrants/

It seems the issue of extra-territorial warrants have not really been litigated that much. Sure, an out of state judge does not have the power to hold a cop in another state in contempt if he does not follow the judge's order to search a place. What happens if the cop searches anyway? Does the evidence get in?

Orin Kerr, the author of the article, is a law professor who writes a LOT on 4th amendment issues (https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=328150) and is uncertain how courts would decide without the perfection inside the target state.
 

Brewervapesalot

Well-Known Member
You're fine because you didn't admit anything, IMO. Go buy another vape and never give it another thought. Not legal advice.
 
Brewervapesalot,
  • Like
Reactions: Jill NYC

Hippie

Well-Known Member
It s kinda like the silly situation in the UK at the moment with dark net sales
I should say I have no idea how to find them, contact them or make a purchase but ....
If packages are picked up by the scanners and passed on to the cops they don't get delivered so the recipient isn't breaking the law when the cops come a knocking. The cops attempt to interview the recipient in the hope they'll incriminate themselves but if they say no there really isn't much the cops can do as they've already seized the illegal goods.
 
Top Bottom