Should I Buy My Fourteen Year Old A Vaporizer, If She's Combusting?

[VWFringe]

Alternate Thread Title: "Come See VWFringe Expose Himself"

This is crazy talk, I know, but, Uh, one is worse than the other, and it really didn't work so well when we went the totallitarian way and prevented her from doing it at all.

She just came out to me that she's been doing it regularly, she said this because she failed a drug screen, and I found myself in the uncomfortable situation of talking with her about her options for passing the next one. (school expulsion for something related more to her mild depression, but requiring a clean drug test)

her grades have never been better, she's not online all the time like before, she's showing pretty good judgement in choosing friends, tho now i can guess they blaze part-time.

Parent Project way of doing this would be to say no, and each time you're caught you'll get everything taken away for like five or seven days, and i'm pretty sure that route would work again, but question whether it's neccessary if she exhibits balance.

But i have to also recognize that in the broad strokes this looks like her currying favor where she can't get it from Mom, and my reacting in an inclusive fashion may not be my eye towards "harm reduction" but is simply a way to have more of a relationship with her (not toking up, but in general because there is an understanding).

So, i'm afraid my flawed way of thinking is what's making me think she needs a MFLB and quick, instead of cracking down. Opinions? hahaha

 

[stroh]

while it seems she is exhibiting a good amount of self control, cannabis use amongst the younger crowd may have detrimental affects to her ever developing brain. IMHO fourteen is too young to be regularly using marijuana. This is definitely a tricky situation to try and assess, and i do NOT feel that a crackdown is the necessary approach, but maybe talking to her and at the very least attempting to lower her usage rate for the mean time would be beneficial, at least until she is a few years older.

just my

 

[lwien]

^^ Yup. Mind altering substances introduced to a developing brain can have unwanted consequences and that would be my primary concern.

 

[VWFringe]

i'm with you there, Dr Gabor Mate speaks about how many kids in America are on anti-psychotics for behavior, stimulants for their concentration, and prozac for depression, millions he says probably due to the stress their parents are under, or were under during the first months of their lives.

He believes the stress and resulting developmental issues are "the" cause for autism, ADHD and drug addiction today in America. He believes that if we accept their reason for using is that it provides Dopamine they crave, then the question isn't how to repress and control the symptoms but to look for why it's craved and develop the individual so they no longer need the substitute. kind of paraphrasing,

when she was diagnosed with mild depression and recommended to go on prozac i nixed the idea for CBT (cognitive behavior therapy) after I found out England doesn't push pills to their kids with mild depression because they've found computerized CBT is just as effective (learning new ways of thinking about things that are more open ended and reflect the truth of the situation as opposed the story we tell ourselves).

So, then i find out my wife put her on the prozac anyway, and her increased usage of MJ went along with the prozac, but her grades got even better than before because she was more on-task as she says. She thinks the MJ had something to do with the being on-task, but i told her it was probably the prozac, and shared the diversity of experiences related her about being in school and studying, but also told her my experience, which may or may not be similar to hers, is that i can study, but i don't. (she's been taken off the prozac by wifey).

I don't want my question to be about should i prevent my daughter from using, because i've already stated that i think moderation is an okay goal to work towards...i just think the genie is out of the bottle, when she first was found to be using she was forced into twelve step programs and she embraced that for a couple of years, going to meetings every week, but after recent stress in the home she relapsed and i think she just sees that it does work for her and she's not letting it drag her grades down. I don't know exactly what regular use means but believe it's once or twice a day and know it's not all day. I think a couple times a week wouldn't effect her brain development from what i've read, but the real question may be this...
as a sane dad, I don't think i should ever smoke pot with my daughter even if she were forty-eight, because in our culture dad's drinking or whatever and the people he may do it with are not part of her rearing, and that relationship should remain sacrosanct. But if I know she's gonna combust do i buy her a vape, to save her lungs, or just tell her she should not combust? and point towards other free alternatives like green dragon or edibles? or are those conversations also off-limits same as drinking would be?

i'm just afraid she's gonna continue to combust and her lungs and the body-load that soot causes her system are a more real threat than the mind-altering effects considering she's not wake-and-bake nor all-day use.

thanks, just tell me i'm deluding myself if you think so, but "harm reduction" is my defense

 

[stroh]

i do not feel that you are deluding yourself, i think you are doing what any responsible parent should do; weighing the benefits and risks of each to decide which path is more harmful and detrimental to your daughter. i think you are being a great father, and it is clear that you care about your daughter very much.

i can attest for marijuana helping with depression, as i too was put on prozac about 3 agos shortly after i attempted suicide. Prior to my hospitalization, i had never ingested any sort of illegal drug, nor did i even partake in underage drinking(i was 17 at the time). My only experience with weed, was that my brother had sold it for awhile, and he had let other destructive substances lead him down the wrong path in life(though now he has pulled it all together and live a happy life). Whilst in the hospital i learned many very false things about the herb, that even i knew were radically untrue despite my very small knowledge pertaining to the herb at the time.

anyways, not long after serving my time in rehab, i decided to go ahead and try marijuana, despite the many warnings i experienced from my time in the hospital, and found that not only was marijuana a relatively harmless substance, it was also exactly what i needed to help get me out of my depressed state of of mind. i found it made me more positive, motivated to achieve, and able to think and problem solve in a more rational way, without letting negative emotions cloud my brain. A year or two later i stopped taking all medication, and i now live relatively happily, and use marijuana as a sleep aide and pain reducer (i am an avid skateboarder). i still use marijuana recreationally during the weekends and sometimes to unwind after work, but never to the extent that i did in the years prior.

while i feel that marijuana can be extremely helpful in combating depression, at the same time you have to be wary of your daughter's mental health. I was nearly 18 by the time i started using marijuana regularly (by regularly, i just mean daily use, no matter how large the amount), and my body and brain was more or less completely developed by that time. 14 years is still a tender age for most, and while marijuana may not have any negative effects on her, there is still always the chance that things could end badly. By buying her a vaporizer, you are showing her that you do not have a problem with her using marijuana, which i can totally understand given the circumstances, but you really should give the impression that you do not approve of her using, at least until she is a little bit older. obviously you do not have control of her choices whether or not to use, but i think that discouraging its use for the mean time would be the best way to go at this point. possibly sit down and have a talk with her regarding marijuana use, and attempt to get her to understand that any psychoactive substance can have a detrimental effect on her developing brain. there really is no easy answer to this predicament, but good luck to you and your family, i hope all goes well for everyone.

 

[jackmormon]

I smoked with my 17 year old daughter. I kind of forced the issue when I caught her and her friends in the basement. Now she doesn't think toking is cool anymore. (I found out I am uncool nowadays)

On a serious note, I would be concerned about any 14 year old using cannabis daily unless it was life saving in some way. Behavior patterns set at that age tend to stick and can limit a person or at least their outlook.

 

[momofthegoons]

I do not think a fourteen year old should be a regular user of mj for all of the reasons already stated above. But the truth is, now that she has started, she probably wont stop unless highly motivated to do so. The issue here is not only whether you should outwardly condone this, but also whether this form of self medication will lead to other forms of self medication. At her age, I say no to condoning. I would educate her on the downfalls of mj use at her age. I would also educate her on the dangers of combusting. And I've got news; most fourteen year old girls are are depressed to some degree or another. It's an insidious age. And, it's awfully young to start the practice of relying on mood altering substances, unless she has been diagnosed as bi-polar. If that is the case, stop dinking around and find the right balance of drugs for her and stop letting her self medicate.. If not, how about getting her into something natural like yoga, exercise and healthy eating?

 

[lwien]

Good advice, mom. Good advice.

 

[VWFringe]

teaspot's are an effective means of motivating, lol

take
away
everything (for a)
short
period
of
time

it's the new spanking, make a list of everything that matters then take it away when they break the rules, but for no *longer than a seven day period (rules and punishments to be agreed upon in advance). Gives the kid light at the end of the tunnel, to minimize despair, but present real and tangible punishments.

But even then i believe she will continue to combust on a much reduced schedule, which leaves the original question still.

i know i'm orchestrating this so there's only the answer i'm looking for left, but i'm also carefully reading the replies, thanks, hahaha

*and often only an hour depending on the infraction

 

[Hippie Dickie]

what does her mother say about her smoking cannabis?

if child uses herb as a drug, then perhaps it should be administered as a drug, with appropriate safeguards -- restricts, say, for appropriate behaviour while medicated. do chores/tasks that it enhances and evaluate when and how it gets in the way of performing as effectively as desired.

sometimes drugs are necessary (even if self-medicating), but there are always tradeoffs -- a teaching moment. Americans are being conditioned to take drugs, and lots of them.

is she self-motivated? have passions? just my opinion, but i think being passionate about something - anything, really - is the most important attribute for developing a sustaining life view.

also, it takes a while before a child understands "be discreet", and the consequences (to self and parents) of not being so.

i learned quickly with my child that "timeouts" worked much better than spanking for behavior modification.

 

[djonkoman]

well 14 is a little young to be a daily smoker... I didn't start before my first day 15 and after that it was only weekly
but as said here also, I don't think you will be able to stop it, and 14 isn't such an abnormal age to start(I know some of my friends also started when they were 14)

maybe you could do something like my parents did, I had a deal with my parents that I was allowed to smoke weed when I became 16(the reasons for that age are not really aplicable to you tough, here you can legally buy beer and anything with <15% alcohol when you're 16, so since my parents rather had me smoking weed then drinking, they allowed it when I was 16, since then they couldn't prohibit drinking anymore)
my parents did know I smoked before I was 16 tough, and I knew they probably knew, we just didn't speak about it(we did soeak about weed but not my use of it), and I kept my use hidden(mostly smoking when going out saturday's)
my mother later told me that even tough she knew she kept it this way because it would mean I had to be sneaky before my 16th and so wouldn't smoke that much/often
and IMO it has worked, but it's probably different for every kid, I think I've always been pretty responsible

what's btw wrong with smoking/vaping or drinking together with your kid? I understand that you wouldn't want it when she is 14, but if she's older I don't see the problem(also don't get that comparison to drinking, drinking together with your children if they have the legal age to drink, or drink with family, isn't weird at all to me, I don't know how it is in america but here it's also pretty normal to serve beer on birthdays, or with family dinners in restaurants)

 

[aesthyrian]

The worst harm Marijuana can do to it is from smoking it, so if you can't stop her from using, then I would say helper her be healthier and safer is a good thing.

I do think 14 is too young to be using weed, but kids can buy all the deadly Caffeine they want, and that an kill. But once again you can't control what everyone does. But you can try and make it safer for her.

 

[max]

This is similar to the situation where you find out your kid is sexually active. Ideally, you say don't do it. You're too young. And they stop. Obviously that doesn't always work. Then you face the question-should I provide birth control/STD protection? Would that be encouraging the behavior? While smoke vs. vapor isn't the same as pregnancy/STD vs. safety, it's in the same vein. If you can't talk her out of her behavior, it may be a good idea to encourage a less harmful version. Vapor is not only kinder to a kid's lungs, but IMO the high is also going to be preferable to the smoke high.

As for risky behavior, I'd say Prozac for a teen is much more dangerous than getting high. Prozac is one of the drugs known to produce suicidal thoughts, where there were none previously. My own step-daughter experienced this with Prozac some years ago.

most fourteen year old girls are are depressed to some degree or another.

I'd agree with that. Antidepressants for teens is a bad idea. My opinion is that they're a bad idea for anyone, and I'm certainly not alone in that opinion.
The Depressing News About Antidepressants

 

[Tuck]

Mine are 4 and 2, and I have joked with my wife that when they are teenagers trying to sneak weed into the house, I will confiscate it and tell them it's been flushed. And then go get high with their supply.

While I was 21 and away at college, my 16 year old brother began toking. My little brother was actually the one who introduced me to the herb. My father busted him and had a drastic reaction. Dad transferred jobs from Washington, DC to Alabama. It worked though. My brother had no connections and then met a southern baptist girl who only dated baptists. He got baptized in her church. It didn't work out but he never did start toking again. He wouldn't even partake when we went to europe and visited amsterdam, one summer when he was 21.

 

[AGBeer]

Man that is a tough situation to be in, and I pretty much agree with the higlights of your thoughts.
-Gonna be hard to get the genie back in the bottle
-There ARE positive effects
-WAY less harmful than the scripts docs provide

Meh, I cant say that I would condone the behavior as at that age I would not worry about the health effects as much as I would worry about the LAW effects. She is 14. She talks. She talks a fucking lot (if she is anything like my daughter) Even IF you were in a med friendly state, the law would be a little hairy unless she had a rec from a doctor. Im sure many people can appreciate the liberalistic views you may have towards your daughters use, but a judge might think otherwise (if it ever came down to that) :/

I say the best sort of therapy to make her reconsider her usage would be to make a decent batch of medibles and have her eat them ALL. This one time scaryasfuckwhiteknuckle trip will make her reconsider using cannabis ever again.

 

[charliedontsurf]

maybe you could do something like my parents did, I had a deal with my parents that I was allowed to smoke weed when I became 16(the reasons for that age are not really aplicable to you tough, here you can legally buy beer and anything with <15% alcohol when you're 16, so since my parents rather had me smoking weed then drinking, they allowed it when I was 16, since then they couldn't prohibit drinking anymore)
my parents did know I smoked before I was 16 tough, and I knew they probably knew, we just didn't speak about it(we did soeak about weed but not my use of it), and I kept my use hidden(mostly smoking when going out saturday's)
my mother later told me that even tough she knew she kept it this way because it would mean I had to be sneaky before my 16th and so wouldn't smoke that much/often
and IMO it has worked, but it's probably different for every kid, I think I've always been pretty responsible)

Pretty much this, adjusting the age if necessary to your ethics. She probably shouldn't be smoking regularly at that age, most of use probably shouldn't of been either - that's a good age to just mellow chemically. Turning a blind eye a little is way different from giving the green light, and that alone will curb the issue until it ceases to be one I think

 

[pakalolo]

I never had kids, so I won't offer advice, but you mentioned that she is blazing with her friends, so unless you isolate her from them she will be able to get help if she wants to get stoned. Also, as AGBeer says, she is likely to talk about whatever you decide.

In my completely unqualified opinion, I like the djonkoman approach.

 

[Elluzion]

My advice would be to try and keep her from using if you can. I am ONLY recommending that because of her age. At 14 there is still a lot of development going on and anything off-setting homeostasis during this time could have effects in the future.

But on the other hand, if she really wants to toke she is going to do it regardless of if you tell her not to. Kids find ways, believe me

I would explain to her the negatives of starting cannabis so early in life and possibly suggest that vaporizers may be a better form of use (if she decides to continue to still consume)

This is a tough situation to be in as a parent, a challenge. I wish you the best of luck

p.s., i'm curious what the mother says about this

 

[VWFringe]

i don't want to tell my wife yet

in part because i don't think she'll handle it well, and in part because i'm selfish about this little corner of a relationship i've been trusted with by my daughter - a foot in the door, not "wow I'm cool again"

part of what Dr. Gabor Mate said in this show I've linked talked a lot about parents and kids, and peer attachments and turning away from the parents, and how it's important to stop that and turn it around for the kids development because the peers just cannot provide the emotionally stable and caring reactions that parents can (they're too concerned with looking good and fitting in to be the rock they imagine they can be to a friend).

Things between my wife and I are severely fucked up right now, and I'm just waiting it out, hoping I can get her to agree to family counselling. Right now, with the new political awareness and awareness of the dangers of television, my wife believes I'm crazy. She can't see what's really happening at home, nineteen years of being married to me I'm surprised she's not gay already, but the meanings tend to pile up, and I haven't been the best husband, leaving plenty of wreckage in my swath.

I like to imagine a counsellor, if we found one she'd trust, clueing her into what I've said and gently integrating it with her identity. you need to be able to accept certain things before other things can even make reasonable sense. If she learns to accept that no one in the family has been getting their needs met for a very long time, and it's understandable that in that situation we'd all split up and look for dopamine in our own fashions, but that it's important to stop bickering (her now, I'm too ashamed to bicker anymore) and start working on changing the patterns we've started so that our daughter will get to a place where she doesn't have time or interest in doing weed that much anymore.

it's a sad situation too. anyway, i don't want to tell her yet, and status quo aint good no mo, i'm looking for ways to improve myself and the situation

Dr Gabor Mate said that when a baby is removed from it's mother for a few days the infant's dopamine levels go way down. And when the mother is returned the baby will avoid re-attaching to the mother for a few days, he called it defensive detachment or something, anyway, I think my daughter's had that towards me for two years, and i finally see a break in the ice, i want to jam a wedge in so it shatters, and i want my wife there too, she's just a little blocked up right now i think from having to deal with my id and super-ego for so long

link to Gabor Mate's site and books (which I have not read): Hold On To Your Kids: Why Parents Need to Matter More Than Peers

 

[CombustionJunction]

I think Max hit the nail on the head. Obviously, the best course of action here would be for her to stop, but I don't think that is going to happen. So you've got to educate her and make sure that she knows that moderation is extremely important. Let her know of the benefits of marijuana USE, as well as the dangers of marijuana ABUSE and maybe even some anecdotes to make sure the message sticks. Believe it or not, kids do listen to you, especially when you're being open and honest and are experienced on the subject. Since she will not be stopping totally, I think a vaporizer is a good idea. I wish someone had given me a vape when I was that age. I started smoking at 14. I'm now 26 and I don't have any major problems that I can trace back to 12 years of daily marijuana usage. Maybe a little bit of short-term memory loss, but that's about it. I consider myself a successful person and a productive member of society. As long as she's got a good head on her shoulders, I think she'll turn out fine as well. Good luck man!

 

[VWFringe]

i started when i was fifteen and used to think it was "the" reason i've done so badly in my lifetime, but I'm getting a bigger picture now (and i look worse than before lol but i understand and see a way out)

if i had known at her age about self-soothing, and how our minds fit us into what is around us is often a form of self-soothing, but if we don't have someone to help catch us on or isht its worth writing down our thoughts from time to time, very illuminating. she doesn't want to do CBT, and I get it, it's weird to write stuff down like that, no story, just the raw thoughts as they came to us. It's harder at first, but i know that's the way out of her issues, and coupled with a closer, more open atmosphere at home she would blossom. If only my wife would love me, I gotta work on that a lot more, but I'm afraid until I get a job she's going to be kind of stuck.

 

[gettin lifted]

here is my story as a teen cannabis user and my parents stance on it.

they tried cracking down the first 5-10 times they caught me high. home life was altered in a negative way with all the fighting and what not. then i finally had the talk with my dad about weed and we discussed how he used to smoke it all the time up until a few years before i started. (he only stopped because of drug testing at work, sometimes i wonder if he had still been blazing when i was caught he would have just joined in and we never would have had this talk.) we basically set ground rules on the subject and he kinda wanted the dont ask dont tell thing. (that didnt last more then a few weeks lol, he gave me nick names like spliffshot and chong) made me buy in a decent bulk but not over a felony, had to keep it at the house. (basically stock up but keep it safe under a felony and be set on herbs for a while) ABSOLUTELY no weed was to leave the house either on my person on in my car when i was old enough to drive.) they would actually search me time to time because i would sneak it but stopped after my friend got busted with it in his car. you live and learn, glad i learned that way) they would actually take my weed if my grades slipped. everything was in great harmony. i toked with them quite a few times durring my teen years and ever since they got over the fact that i was a typical american teen that was doing the same thing they did at my age everything was great. glad it worked out well. dad will be retiring in the next year or two and he can finally toke again and i have a feeling we'll be vaping a bunch together.

but really the choice is between you and your wife. but imo i think my parents did the right thing.

cannabis will never be excepted by the bulk of the world if we keep treating it like its evil. but then again, too each their own.

hope that helped you in some way or another.

oh ya i had just turned 15 when that all happened and life has been just wonderful since then.

sorry for the rambling, quite toasty atm.

 

[VWFringe]

no, no, thank you very much for sharing.

 

[Raf007]

VWFringe,

It's a real tricky situation you are in for several reasons: Like won't your wife tell a judge or someone that you seem to be encouraging your daughter ?

If not, go for it ! Talk to her about vaporisation in general and how it could save her money, and health. Let her discover vaporisation by herself kind of. Or just buy her a box and let it be....

I also wanted to say that it's really sad to see how kids are put under legal drugs.
Just FYI and eventhow France is the number 1 legal drugs user in Europe, we do not put our kids under prozac like you guys do in the US. It's everywhere in the press and well known that the USA are over using drugs on children and that it appears to be a big mistake.

Also wanted to add that 14 is young to start but we are all react differently to this plant. I know I tried at 13, then 14 and started for good around 16...that's when my grades went up. I had found my carott.

And I wish I could partake with my parents like I partake alcool with them. I think if you accept to drink a beer with her one day, then you should accept the idea of toking with her.

 

[crawdad]

when i feel mine are old enough i will give proper education about it and offer.