Safety of direct inhaling exhausted Butane

[cybrguy]

So this has been discussed before in several other threads for various reasons. There are many vapes that use butane torches with various vapor paths either inline with the butane itself or indirect where the butane heats a plate or tube directly, and proximity to that heated surface (usually metal) leads to the evaporation of the actives in our goods which are then inhaled.

There has been a trend towards the second technology that separates the butane from the air path, reportedly to avoid any dangers there may be in breathing butane directly in to the lungs. Lotus, of course, is a good example of a vendor that has gone to somewhat Herculean efforts to assure this separation in their full convection vape. They obviously believe this to be the safest way to accomplish their goals.

Over the last year or so a couple vendors have developed some beautiful entries in to the vape market that use the original idea, where the butane is not separated from the air path and is inhaled directly after filtering through the load. The Daisy, and their new entry the Lily are good examples of this different view that discounts any danger from butane being directly inhaled.

While I can respect difference in opinion, I would think that the dangers of butane would be something that is quantifiable. We obviously have some anecdotal evidence of potential problems inhaling butane. One of our members several months ago was getting regular headaches from using his butane based device in close quarters, but I am not sure that he was able to determine for sure if that was from overspill filling his torch or from actually using it. I don't think ANYONE doubts that unburned butane should be avoided whenever possible, but the effect of breathing (potentially) large quantities of exhausted butane may not be as clearly known.

I haven't been able to find any good studies on this. Are there such studies out there, or are we left somewhat with opinions to satisfy us?

Added Last Question: I guess part of what I am asking is if we, as a group, have stopped being concerned about this, as it seemed that before we were. And if we are not, what changed?

 

[h3rbalist]

Found this very informative post on a rival forum.

@lwien said

'Combusted butane = H20+C02 = water and a normal part of air = 2 elements that if they are missing would be VERY harmful to your existence.

What you don't want to do is to inhale the fumes from un-combusted butane.'

 

[z9]

Found this very informative post on a rival forum.

@lwien said

Combusted butane = H20+C02 = water and a normal part of air = 2 elements that if they are missing would be VERY harmful to your existence.

What you don't want to do is to inhale the fumes from un-combusted butane.

That's under the assumption that you're burning 100% butane. The average person can't buy pure butane, the mass-produced cans generally contain oils from manufacturing, added propellants (usually propane), mercaptan (for smell... I think?) and other impurities in them. Just read the MSDS of any brand of butane.

Edit:
I never experienced headaches with my Vaponic, Lotus or nails and have used them extensively (by myself and with groups) in confined areas without issue.

If burning butane was causing widespread headaches we would know about it by now from the dabbing community. Not to say some people aren't more sensitive to the impurities being burned in their butane than others.

 

[h3rbalist]

That's under the assumption that you're burning 100% butane.

I always thought I was. Why would you not burn 100%? incorrect flame type???

edit.

I see, you mean 100% butane in the can.
(reading the back of my can of swan now)

 

[treeman]

I found a paper, I flicked through to the butane section and it didn't seem too bad from their findings. I didn't check out their methods though:

McKee, R., Herron, D., Saperstein, M., Podhasky, P., Hoffman, G., Roberts, L.. (2013). The Toxicological Properties of Petroleum Gases. International Journal of Toxicology. 33 (1), 28-51.

Searching my university library there was papers analysing death reports from people who died inhaling butane. I should note that this is in the UK and butane has been known to be used as a recreational drug (directly inhaling butane from cans). Yeah its pretty low but I've seen people inhaling butane on the street on a regular basis so I honestly do not remotely worry about residual butane in oil.
Its simply so little by comparison.

However, more sensitive people may find it irritating, I'd understand that.

 

[z9]

One member put it well, it went something along the lines of "you inhale more pollutants walking down the road on a busy day than from burning butane whilst vaping"

 

[h3rbalist]

I found a paper, I flicked through to the butane section and it didn't seem too bad from their findings. I didn't check out their methods though:

McKee, R., Herron, D., Saperstein, M., Podhasky, P., Hoffman, G., Roberts, L.. (2013). The Toxicological Properties of Petroleum Gases. International Journal of Toxicology. 33 (1), 28-51.

Searching my university library there was papers analysing death reports from people who died inhaling butane. I should note that this is in the UK and butane has been known to be used as a recreational drug (directly inhaling butane from cans). Yeah its pretty low but I've seen people inhaling butane on the street on a regular basis so I honestly do not remotely worry about residual butane in oil.
Its simply so little by comparison.

However, more sensitive people may find it irritating, I'd understand that.

Wow dude, you have way more time on your hands for this research.
I've got kids!!!! Challenging ones, at that.


In all seriousness this is a good subject and I'm looking forward to what can be dug up because I'm soon to be owning a Lily. If I have time later I will do some more research myself.

And regarding the butane inhaling, I live in the UK and my brother in law was an addict. So yeah, I hear ya, its a fucked up thing.

 

[Delta3DStudios]

Several months back when I was using my Lotus as my daily-driver (huge load after load after load kind of sessions). I was having a very mild headache which I couldn't quite "place" the root cause (I thought I had a sinus infection). I typically felt this minor headache about 30 minutes after my session was finished.

First I thought the strain of herb might have been the problem, but then I remembered I had used 3 different strains at various times over the month, and they all caused headaches.

Then I was reading something and someone noted headaches and butane, that's when I got to thinking about my Lotus! Since it was the only hard hitting vape I had at the time, I wasn't sure if it was the quantity of herb consumed, however I did only notice the headaches after my 'extended' sessions (typically on weekends).

After that realization, I started to use more 'caution' with my butane. IE - I will hold the torch away from the hot plate (to prevent butane from squirting out before the flame ignites), and I try to use the vape in a well ventilated area (or at the VERY least - moving about the room so I don't "vape" in the same location for the whole session).

Fortunately, since then, I have not had any more headaches. Shortly after that issue, I upgraded to an e-Nano which I now use for my daily 'sessions'. I once tried to document a Lotus session to establish that butane was the culprit, but I was unsuccessful in giving myself a headache. I think subconsciously, I was taking more care with the butane and avoiding direct inhalation.

I have come to the conclusion that while butane is generally considered safe, it should be treated with respect. I still don't think I'd ever purchase a Daisy or a Lilly simply because I don't want to risk inhaling more butane than I must. That's not to say a single hit from those types of vapes will cause a headache, but possibly someone who did 5 loads in a row over 20 minutes might start to feel a mild headache....

 

[1_gr8_underdog]

I use my Daisy everyday. Multiple times a day. I have not experianced anything but huge clouds. I have no worries about inhaleing exhausted butane, as long as your torch is in good shape and burning properly.

 

[cybrguy]

In reading around looking for info on residual contaminants in butane, most of the discussion is centered around making BHO where the butane is evaporated rather than burned. There is a MUCH greater likelihood of contaminants remaining from evaporation than combustion. When using higher quality multi-filtered butane I see nothing (so far) to indicate there is any great likelihood of contaminants getting past the point of combustion. I will be quiet now.

 

[vaporonly]

In reading around looking for info on residual contaminants in butane, most of the discussion is centered around making BHO where the butane is evaporated rather than burned. There is a MUCH greater likelihood of contaminants remaining from evaporation than combustion. When using higher quality multi-filtered butane I see nothing (so far) to indicate there is any great likelihood of contaminants getting past the point of combustion. I will be quiet now.

These are my thoughts on the topic as well. BHO production also concentrates whatever contaminants are in a can or cans.

I think every heat exchange can have potential dangers...remember that super long thread about the ceramic heating element safety?

 

[t-dub]

If you are into squirting unlit butane in your vape you are doing it wrong.

No SHIT!!!! . . .

Watch this stupid bitch actually huff butane. A dozen cans a day . . . The fractional residual, if any, from a properly functioning torch is negligible compared to this. Whippits seems like a better idea . . .

---

 

[t-dub]

Huffing many kinds of gas can be deadly because it disables your lungs ability to absorb oxygen. If you have a lung full of gas there is no room for oxygen. Suicide advocates are using nitrogen gas in this way.

This person died from the practice

Wow that is William Shatner hosting, cool . . .

 

[cybrguy]

This is from Vapor Genie Site

Isn't it dangerous to inhale lighter exhaust?
Completely burning butane produces essentially only carbon dioxide and water vapor, which are harmless. Other compounds are created in trace amounts (partially combusted hydrocarbons, NOx, etc). Lighter exhaust is invisible, which is an indication that it contains little soot. Butane lighters burn quite clean, provided that the flame is undisturbed (i.e. not flickering or touching the filter). A flickering flame, or a flame that is touching the sides of the intake will produce undesirable unburned hydrocarbons. Consequently, technique affects the cleanliness of the vapor. However, even sloppy use of the VaporGenie will not produce nearly as much toxic material as found in smoke. Lighter exhaust is a LOT cleaner than a regular pipe, and that is very apparent once you try the VaporGenie.

There will necessarily be some toxic material in the lighter exhaust, however. We believe that more toxins and weird chemicals are released from the plant matter being vaporized (compared to the lighter exhaust), especially if it is overheated. Even in electric vaporizers, there is some tar and toxic chemical production. It is impossible to completely eliminate exposure.

Always remember that you get the cleanest vapor when the flame is not disturbed, flickering or touching anything. You don't want the flame to flicker or touch the filter or sides of the pipe.

We have found that some people (perhaps 10-15%) appear to be especially sensitive to butane lighter exhaust. For these people, we strongly recommend the Ital Hempwick lighter, which we sell (see the lighters products page). The Ital Hampwick is made of organic hemp twine saturated with beeswax. The exhaust from the Ital Hempwick has a pleasant beeswax flavor.

Jason J - June 06, 2013 19:34
--------------------
The Wikipedia article on Butane suggests that small amounts of Nitrogen Dioxide are produced by combusting butane. Apparently a study in GB on butane heaters has confirmed this.
http://www.thescipub.com/abstract/?doi=ajassp.2005.707.710

BTW, I am not suggesting there are dangerous levels, just that it exists. I don't know how much is dangerous. Apparently this way to avoid it is to be sure that the flame is stable...

 

[RUDE BOY]

^^ I still can't believe Vaporgenie doesn't recommend using a torch over a candle flame. I used mine with bics and the vaporgenie lighter since 2009, just started using one of those cheap 1300c torches that came with the Daisy and the vapman torch 6-7 months ago and now there's no going back to a candle flame except for emergency situations.
Along with being So much easier on my throat for me it's so much easier to control the heat with a torch that using one instead of a soft flame seems to be a no-brainer now.

 

[max]

One of our members several months ago was getting regular headaches from using his butane based device in close quarters, but I am not sure that he was able to determine for sure if that was from overspill filling his torch or from actually using it.

While you can get headaches for many reasons, including overindulging in cannabis use, I can assure you that all the butane leaving the exit nozzle of his lighter, with flame present, was completely burned. Butane can't escape flame intact any more than a cotton ball can survive a furnace.

This is from Vapor Genie Site

We should keep in mind that the Vapor Genie company doesn't recommend a torch lighter for their products, just a regular butane lighter (producing the flickering flame), which does produce partially burned carbon (soot) as a byproduct. A torch lighter burns all the carbon as well, leaving no toxic byproducts. All butane lighters, unless defective, will burn ALL the butane, so the only risk of inhaling butane occurs when inhalation takes place with no flame present. To prevent that, you just have to make sure you've got a flame applied before you start inhaling.

 

[cybrguy]

While you can get headaches for many reasons, including overindulging in cannabis use, I can assure you that all the butane leaving the exit nozzle of his lighter, with flame present, was completely burned. Butane can't escape flame intact any more than a cotton ball can survive a furnace.

While I think you have used a bad analogy (a cotton ball has no way to escape your furnace while unburned gasses could easily escape) I do understand your point. I'm just not as confident as you are that this is the case. The study I linked to above suggests that homes heated with butane heaters have a higher level of NO2 in the winter than the summer and higher levels inside than outside. The study has no explanation for this other than byproducts of the butane combustion. Of course we have a correlation/causality argument potential, but we nearly always do and attributing the NO2 to the butane is not at all far fetched.

While I don't have any knowledge about how well the study was done, I have no reason to believe it has no value without some peer review showing they did something wrong. And this is just one study so I wouldn't rely completely on that. But it does make one wonder if consuming exhausted butane may have some potential dangers. For me, it may be enough to not risk it for my daily driver.

Edit: One thing to add. We aren't really talking about butane escaping the flame. If I understand the study correctly we are talking about a potential product of the combustion.

 

[tennstrong]

Regarding the daisy specifically, are you not heating up the encased glass surrounding that then touches the load? Also off topic but what about charcoal inhalation from the new okin since there isn't water diffusion like a hookah?

 

[tennstrong]

The load is not surrounded or encased glass. The herb is in a wood bowl. You simply point the butane torch flame down the intake hole and your herb is excellently vaporized through convection.

Thanks for that response and safety tip. Any ideas on charcoal inhalation from the embers on the okin though?

 

[mestizo]

Thanks for that response and safety tip. Any ideas on charcoal inhalation from the embers on the okin though?

That has been discussed, and explained in the Okin thread by Dan.