Rebuildable 510 Herb Atomizer (Ribbon feature)

[DgN'R]

Greetings!

I'd like to discuss with the community a project I've been working on for a while now (I plan to create my own brand and company, no sales will be made before), it's a rebuildable 510 atomizer with the special feature of ribbon assembly (like a Tinymight or Morwood heating element). I can't explain it all here yet because the project is currently still in prototype and I'm waiting for patent verification, but here are the overall ideas/features:

• designed in France (I design on CAD open source software, but I don't make anything myself, because I have no workshop, no tools/machines and no manual experience (and I'm already working on the side)) and made in China (for SS316 parts (to get something that's cheap enough and of good quality)) and the wood will come from various manufacturers already known here (like Retrosteam and others afterwards, of course, I'm open to any manufacturer who would like to propose something, that would be great!) I prefer to conceive the idea and ask talented craftsmen to make it for me (everyone wins)
  
  
• made entirely of SS316 (except for the screw, two small insulators and wooden sleeve and glass mouthpiece)
  
  
• the atomizer will have a full Ø25mm (so that it can be connected to any type of mod (box, tube, SBS, etc.))
  
  
• it will have a 3mm thickness wooden sleeve to ensure strength and durability (but also for aesthetics, but also to allow more possibilities (like adding magnets or other)), which gives us a base atomizer Ø19mm OD (wood will not be in the air path)
  
  
• the ribbon can be made of several materials (SS, Ni etc. (but beware: not all of them will be compatible with the TC mode, all this will be explained in the manual)) as it can be completely rebuilt without any welding points, the final assembly must have a diameter of Ø17mm ID (and currently a ribbon height of 15mm, this one may change in its final version). Power can also vary, as this is a rebuildable atomizer (but there will certainly be a pre-cut/kit ribbon by default in SS316, because I'm allergic to Nichrome (and I think many other people are too?))
  
  
• can be completely disassembled (SS/insulators/ribbon and wooden part (you can easily change the wooden sleeve, like on a CouchLog))
  
  
• the airflow can be adjusted using the wooden sleeve (a knurled cylinder of Ø25mm on the bottom of the atomizer to facilitate this (to grip the atomizer while adjusting the airflow with the wooden sleeve))
  
  
• it will be compatible with Tinymight mouthpieces (as well as all accessories). Adapters will also be designed to connect other types of mouthpiece (e.g. brick mouthpieces)
  
  
• the atomizer can be purchased in parts or as a kit (so you don't have to buy what you already have, or for manufacturers who want to make their own vaporizers from the heating element, or simply for small budgets )
  
  
• the atomizer has a thread on the top so you can connect just about anything (like a heating adapter for sticky bricks (like at Prrl Labs Neo, it offers many possibilities))
  
  
• an mechanical (like a Toad) SBS mod with 21700 (or 18650 with adapter) battery will be designed and manufactured some time later (to connect the atomizer you have already purchased). I don't know whether it will be a single or dual, but if it works well enough, I'll probably do both (for the moment I'm mainly working on the heating element that will be the basis of the whole thing, and you can already connect it to a number of possibilities)
  
  
• then in a few years, when I've acquired the necessary experience (but also when I'll have more financial means to certify the marketing of such a product), I'll probably make an electronic SBS mod (like Tinymight, and perhaps also a fixed plug-in device)
  
  
• perhaps also ask artists to paint custom-made unique wooden sleeves?

That's all I can say for now, what do you think? do you think this project is viable? would you be interested in this type of product? what does the community think? tell me all about it! This project is largely inspired by the vaporizers currently on the market, but also by everything that is being done with liquid vapes/atomizer. The main idea is to have an affordable price for good performance (it should be similar to a Tinymight).

To finish off, here are a few pictures (again sorry I can't share everything). I'm still working on getting the final ribbon height right (it's the only atomizer dimension that can still be modified, the height (but I think the latest prototype is good, I try to keep the height as low as possible)).






(The 15mm ribbon height is installed here, which leaves the bottom air holes open)


(Note that the air holes on the wood are not yet drilled (@Tswoodenart / @Retrosteam supplied me with different thicknesses so I can already find what I need) The start will also be different, it's just a wood standard prototype here, the sleeve will also be smaller (I preferred to think big here for the prototype))


(An example here with the SBS Brunhilde 100W mod from VapeFly (note that our own SBS mode will have a much lower 510 connection to allow a vaporizer with appreciable height))


(An example of the final height with a stem high enough to Ed's TNT TinyMight Multi Water Pipe Adapter (smaller MP are of course available))

I'm currently working on the upper part (this closes and tightens the ribbon to keep it still, and can also be used to create a bowl or to accommodate a wood-free mouthpiece in the air path (simply fits a TM mouthpiece)). The lower part will be drilled with small holes like on a Tinymight (all I need to do now is determine the correct spacing between the ribbon and the herb bowl).



Please don't hesitate to suggest improvements or other constructive criticism, I'm open to suggestions, any help is welcome! I'll probably be looking for a few testers before the market launch, so if you're interested stay tuned (I don't have any precise dates to communicate, it all depends on my expenses/unforeseen events and life in general (and as I've already mentioned, I'm already working on another project that has nothing to do with vape and is already costing me quite a bit of money and time) but it's very likely to be for this year).

That's all for now ... hope I'm not breaking any forum rules.

Love and Happiness!

 

[oddjobold]

You have my attention.

 

[oddjobold]

I played with the herbie a lot and tried a bunch of mesh ribbon coils, trying to get the best performance. With a 510 space is limited, especially if you have a conductive outer shell.

I understand you might not want to answer all these questions yet, if your patent is pending, but I'll ask anyway. Feel free to give what info your comfortable with.

* Are you planning to use steel mesh (like a Splinter) or a solid foil (like a Tinymight)?

*What's the advantage of using non TC materials for the coil?

*How is the coil clamped to the base?

*What type of configuration is the coil meant to have? Are we talking an up and over loop, or a circular spiral? Or something else?

*What length of coil can you get in the limited space?

The devil is in the detail here. You might not be able give us this kinda info, so any advice will be limited.

A few things I learnt with the herbie, the length of coil is vital. Short coils don't seem to perform well, and give patchy performance. There is also the risk of over heating the coil, and making it glow which is bad for your health. If your coil glows a lot of us will be out straight away.

Its nice to have an outer wooden shell for aesthetics, but I would be concerned how this extra width limits your coil space.

I like the idea of using tinymight stems, something a lot of people will have. The herbies internal herb chamber limited the space, and made things complicated.

Very glad that someone is giving a new 510 a go. I feel no one has quite cracked the rebuildable 510 dry herb vape yet, so excited to see what you come up with.

 

[DgN'R]

I'm happy to see that my project is of interest to the community.

Are you planning to use steel mesh (like a Splinter) or a solid foil (like a Tinymight)?

As this is a rebuildable atomizer, you can try all kinds of ribbon mounts (mesh or solid) so both are possible, but by default I'd recommend a solid ribbon like Tinymight or Morwood.

What's the advantage of using non TC materials for the coil?

The original pre-cut ribbon will be SS316 to be compatible with TC/Power mode (Nichrome/Kanthal only compatible with Power mode, but it has a lower resistance and heats up more quickly). I don't test with Nichrome because I'm allergic to it. I prefer the SS316, which is compatible with most modes and offers good performance.

How is the coil clamped to the base?

Ok let's not be afraid of the devil but unfortunately, I can't explain everything yet, but I can tell you that the positive connection will be made directly from the center of the atomizer (simply remove the central screw of the 510 connection, with which you can remove the central pin that will allow you to insert your ribbon inside and then hold it in place with a second part (which is placed inside the first to make the connection simply by clamping (like a Russian doll)). Then simply replace the central pin on the atomizer and retighten the 510 screw. This way, everything is well connected and held in place (the pin and the second part inside it can no longer move because it is mounted from the bottom and not from the top (they're both trapped inside), of course you can remove it by following the reverse procedure). To give you an idea, take a look at the Taifun BT atomizer, from which I drew a lot of my inspiration (but it's not quite the same principle here).

The negative connection will be made directly on the inner cylinder (⌀17mm) following the same principle (here it will simply be a three-quarter ring, of minimal but sufficient thickness, leaving enough space for mounting and clamping (without the ribbon being bent/broken or the like (hence the three-quarter ring))). I hope to be able to share this quickly, but with this information, you can get an idea. In both cases, no screws are required (for both connections, I simply use the clamping principle (of course, apart from the standard 510 screw that holds the central pin in place)). This same ring will be held in place by the upper part as I explained in my first message (although in itself, it shouldn't move, it's mainly a safety device in case the atomizer falls or something).

What type of configuration is the coil meant to have? Are we talking an up and over loop, or a circular spiral? Or something else?

It's a circular spiral (you can try all sorts of things like crimped ribbon or others).

What length of coil can you get in the limited space?

I will answer this question as soon as possible, because many answers are possible depending on the assembly (I haven't had time to try everything yet).

There is also the risk of over heating the coil, and making it glow which is bad for your health. If your coil glows a lot of us will be out straight away.

Yes, that's right, we don't want that, and if the assembly is carried out correctly and according to the instructions, there should be no risk of glowing (especially if used in TC mode).

Its nice to have an outer wooden shell for aesthetics, but I would be concerned how this extra width limits your coil space.

According to my tests, this seems sufficient and installation is not so complicated (it seems to me that a Morwood heater has a much smaller diameter (besides, I don't know how Dan manages to weld anything on it in such a small space (this guy has the hands of a goldsmith) )).

I like the idea of using tinymight stems, something a lot of people will have.

Yes, to tell the truth, I'm fed up with having to buy mouthpieces, so I thought it best to base myself on something that many people already own (if they don't, they can always buy it). I find the Tinymight mouthpieces quite practical and so many craftsmen already offer things for this vaporizer that I thought it was a good idea to choose the TM.

In the future, perhaps the upper part (the bowl) will also have a third part at the top, I'm already thinking of a sort of labyrinth steam passage (a bit like a Mighty) in order to offer a 510/810 drip tip like on ecigarettes (in this case, Tinymight mouthpieces are no longer required) to obtain a format that comes close, i.e. a low height while maintaining good cooling (but this is beyond my skills at the moment as this part will also have to be made of SS316 and CNC machined).

I hope I've answered all your questions correctly, I can see you're very interested, I'm very pleased

 

[oddjobold]

Although this is rebuildable, i think a foil circular coil in SS316 is probably about as good as its going to get. This type of coil has proven itself in the TM. Spiral also seems to be the way to go with this limited space.

I am 100% going to get this. Sold already.

 

[KeroZen]

The original pre-cut ribbon will be SS316 to be compatible with TC/Power mode (Nichrome/Kanthal only compatible with Power mode, but it has a lower resistance and heats up more quickly). I don't test with Nichrome because I'm allergic to it. I prefer the SS316, which is compatible with most modes and offers good performance.

If you are really allergic (and not figuratively) to it, I suspect it's from the Nickel part. In which case I would invite you to consider other stainless steel alloys that have a much lower Nickel content yet still work properly in TC mode. Have you tried S430? It has zero Nickel and many in the ecig world love it, but the downside is its springiness (I imagine it could be stabilized with some annealing like Dan does in his heaters)

 

[DgN'R]

If you are really allergic (and not figuratively) to it

Yes, I think I'm really allergic (no scientific proof, however, I have not consulted) because I've been vaporize liquid with Wotofo Ni80 coils, at first all went well, but the more the days go by (it usually only takes three or four days, it's not instantaneous (and it takes a good week to fully recover)), the more I get a sore throat and feel like I've inhaled something wrong (like dust in the throat, and a very big irritation that makes you want to cough), I also had the symptoms of a runny nose and watery eyes. However, my friends who vaporize with the same type of coils have no problems at all, I'm not saying it's bad for everyone, you just have to know your sensitivities.

Since it was the only change in my routine (always the same atomizer and the same liquid and also ohm resistances very close in values), I stopped everything and went back to my classic Kanthal or SS316 coils, and since then all my problems have stopped. To be sure, I tried again a few months later with Ni80 and the problems reappeared a few days later. So I really think I'm allergic to this type of material? for me, I can't see any other hypothesis.

I suspect it's from the Nickel part

Yes, I think so too, because with Kanthal also contains chromium (but does not contain nickel?), I don't have any problems. And with SS316, which contains much less nickel than Ni80, I have no particular problem either. So I really think it's due to the high nickel content of Ni80%.

In which case I would invite you to consider other stainless steel alloys that have a much lower Nickel content yet still work properly in TC mode. Have you tried S430? It has zero Nickel and many in the ecig world love it, but the downside is its springiness (I imagine it could be stabilized with some annealing like Dan does in his heaters)

Thanks for the information and for your contribution, I'm going to find out about the SS430 it looks very interesting and also perhaps less expensive (it would be perfect for me). I've been vaporize liquid with SS316 for a few months now and have had no problems whatsoever (I also have no problems with my TM2). It's pretty strange ..

 

[Pcloudy]

I mech 21700 version of this? Yes please sign me up. I was just thinking of my herbie last night and realized I kind of miss it. Im always down to try more 510 vapes and this one looks awesome.

 

[simba]

I've misplaced/lost my old reliable Stempod OG, so looks like I'm in the market for a new 510 vape. Be keeping an eye on this one

 

[XpeeN]

Nice work, sound very interesting, and the fact that it's rebuildable makes it even better.
The only thing that bothers me is the conductive shell. Why did you choose a metal shell instead of wood for example? If everything is clamped in place there isn't a risk of burning the wood if it's spaced from the heater.

 

[DgN'R]

Why did you choose a metal shell instead of wood for example?

You mean like Alan's iHeat? I opted for this because it's a standard ribbon (it has no pins) that comes into direct contact with the inner cylinder (like a Morwood heater), and it also completely isolates the wooden sleeve from the air path (I know that many people are sensitive on this point). I also need it for the second upper part, as this has a thread to accommodate a number of adapters and accessories. After many relevant exchanges here in PM with great people, the project has however evolved a lot and I will come to give the updates soon, the prototype should arrive on Monday if all goes well

 

[Daffmodollas]

Any updates here? Anxiously waiting for another vape to add to my 510 collection. Long live 510

 

[Sativapo]

From my experience imo these metal base 510 vapes don't work well because the metal base acts like a heat sink like the glow so you have to heat a lot and make the coil glow which is not only unhealthy but makes the coil degrade fast ( related to glowing/unhealthy) with the same form factor the mistvape imp which had a wooden base reduced this problems a lot. Maybe also if the metal base is very shallow and you have a huge mesh coil surrounded by a wood sleeve ( more rbt splinter like) , no metal in between, it can also work well.

 

[simba]

I loved my Stempod OG before I lost it which had a metal base. I think it performed great, sure it got warm but not ridiculous.

But I agree mistvape 510 vapes are good, I loved my impcognito before I lost that too I really need to stop losing discontinued vapes.

 

[Shit Snacks]

I loved my Stempod OG before I lost it which had a metal base. I think it performed great, sure it got warm but not ridiculous.

But I agree mistvape 510 vapes are good, I loved my impcognito before I lost that too I really need to stop losing discontinued vapes.

Sorry I don't think I can part with my own impcognito from the collection yet, but if you have any interest in the Herbie, mine is still 100% brand new, with spare heaters, and also Galaxy coil heater from Alan (the same one he uses in the iheat) that I expect would perform much better, however it will require tinkering, installation, and setup... Anyone here please hit me up if you're interested!

 

[oddjobold]

From my experience imo these metal base 510 vapes don't work well because the metal base acts like a heat sink like the glow so you have to heat a lot and make the coil glow which is not only unhealthy but makes the coil degrade fast ( related to glowing/unhealthy) with the same form factor the mistvape imp which had a wooden base reduced this problems a lot. Maybe also if the metal base is very shallow and you have a huge mesh coil surrounded by a wood sleeve ( more rbt splinter like) , no metal in between, it can also work well.

A heatsink usually solves these issues.

 

[Sativapo]

How does it solve the metal base acting like a heatsink ? It prevents the mod for overheating but it doesn't prevent the heatsink effect of the base taking away heat from the load making the need for coil heat bigger.
I didn't have a stempod but if I remember well people had to make it glow to make it work with those ecig type coils kind of like the glow. I made my glow work but it wad degrading in a few weeks having to change progressively the tcr value to make it work with TC and then having to change the coil. Probably sucking the product of this degradation in my lungs.

 

[XpeeN]

How does it solve the metal base acting like a heatsink ? It prevents the mod for overheating but it doesn't prevent the heatsink effect of the base taking away heat from the load making the need for coil heat bigger.
I didn't have a stempod but if I remember well people had to make it glow to make it work with those ecig type coils kind of like the glow. I made my glow work but it wad degrading in a few weeks having to change progressively the tcr value to make it work with TC and then having to change the coil. Probably sucking the product of this degradation in my lungs.

I didn't have this problem with the glow at all and I tried lots of coils. Small coils will have to glow to compensate of their low surface area, but a decent ss setup wouldn't. My current coil is installed for months and the resistance didn't change (stayed within ~0.005 ohm range to this day since it was new I'd say).
Edit: I should note that I don't pass the glowing temp and most of the time I stay pretty far away from it (I reach it at 235C with my settings but stay up to 210C most of the time, and start as low as 165C)

 

[simba]

Sorry I don't think I can part with my own impcognito from the collection yet, but if you have any interest in the Herbie, mine is still 100% brand new, with spare heaters, and also Galaxy coil heater from Alan (the same one he uses in the iheat) that I expect would perform much better, however it will require tinkering, installation, and setup... Anyone here please hit me up if you're interested!

The impcognito is too cute, I understand! Appreciate the offer but I'm all in with the Dreamwood Glow, bought a cool mod that pairs very nicely with it.

 

[DgN'R]

@Daffmodollas yeah, slowly but surely

UPDATE:

The project is progressing, and following some very instructive exchanges and a better understanding of thermodynamic (I would especially like to thank @KeroZen who helped me a lot as well as all the members of the FC community and this magnificent forum with whom I have learned so much), some notable improvements have been made. This is the final version and there should be no further improvements in the future (this one's been carefully thought out). This will allow me to concentrate solely on the mechanical SBS mode first and later the electronic SBS mode, as well as a plug-in unit (I'm thinking of designing a on-demand log), the basis of all these modes being based on the finalized atomizer (the aim being to provide a complete environment from this one).

Here are just a few of the modifications made to the atomizer, making it much more efficient/powerful and attractive:

• the external diameter of the atomizer has been reduced from Ø25mm to Ø24mm, to make it compatible with most SBS mods
  
  
• the ribbon height has been increased from 15mm to 20mm (which should avoid any risk of glowing when used in power mode as well as offering more extraction power)
  
  
• the first ribbon will certainly be SS430, so it remains compatible in power or TC mode (what's more, it contains no nickel, it considerably reduces the risk of allergies). It's a less resistant to corrosion than the SS316, but as it's not in contact with liquid, there's no reason to choose a high marine grade here (especially as the atomizer is rebuildable, so you can change it yourself if necessary). It also offers good performance for our purposes. A jig will also be available to simplify ideal ribbon spacing and mounting for those who want to create their own ribbon (pre-cut ribbons will be available and in the future other materials will be offered). The ideal thickness and length of the latter still needs to be carefully studied to obtain the right compromise, but we'll get there soon
  
  
• the thickness of the wall where the ribbon comes into contact has been reduced from 1mm to 0.25mm, which considerably reduces heat exchange between ribbon and atomizer, and offers a gap of 0.75mm between the outer cylinder of the atomizer and the inner wooden sleeve (so that it heats up very little). Please refer to the cross-section drawing below for a better understanding of the situation
  
  
• the atomizer will be made of SS316L (slightly more expensive than the traditional SS316) because my manufacturer can certify only this material, the external diameter of the cylinder is still 19mm and its internal diameter 17mm (this has not changed, only the part in contact with the ribbon has been reduced) and the wooden sleeve is still used to adjust the airflow (three Ø2mm holes on the bottom of the wooden sleeve on each side to allow for this operation, offering a wide range of adaptability from the tightest to the most open to find what suits you best and easily share your preferences with other users), the knurled base on the bottom of the atomizer facilitates airflow adjustment and prevents too much heat being transmitted directly to the mod

That's all for now, I don't think I've forgotten anything, to conclude, here are some drawings and pictures to help you visualize and understand the project:


(new design)


(here's a cross-section (please note that the contact ring and center stud are not represented here, I'll talk about it in a future update ))


(progress of prototypes, 10mm → 15mm → 20mm ribbon)


(new prototype (20mm ribbon))


(it'll be great with the new Ed's TNT TM MP)

I'm not much present on the forum, but I want you to know that this project is close to my heart and that I'm devoting a lot of energy and attention (and also a lot of time and learning because it's not my area of expertise) to it to offer something exceptional. The trademark has been deposed and the website (I chose the PrestaShop open source french solution on a Swiss hosting (Infomaniak, for website and mailings)) has also been registered. The fediverse will also be present with a PeerTube and Pixelfed instance (also hosted in switzerland) to share news and constructive videos. The company has also already been registered (it will be a micro-enterprise for those who are familiar with legislation in France, while we assess the situation and the market and see what possibilities are available without taking any risks).

The next steps of the specifications to be finalized before the official launch are:

• finish the second upper part of the atomizer (which serves as a bowl or receptacle for a TM mouthpiece (last GIF in my first post) and holds the lower contact ring). As I've reworked the atomizer base, I've had little time to devote to it since last time (at a rate of one prototype per month (including manufacturing and delivery times), this unfortunately takes time, and there have been a lot of holidays in China recently)
  
  
• determine the ideal ribbon thickness and length (and list the recommended batteries (18650/21700), this is the most complicated part)
  
  
• define the design of the wooden sleeve (and also the type of wood) and find one or more manufacturers for it
  
  
• design a custom glass (or wood) mouthpiece (for those who don't have a TM or mouthpiece available (to offer a complete kit without having to order elsewhere (when ordering, the customer chooses only what he needs))) and therefore also find a manufacturer for this
  
  
• send the finished product to testers before marketing (and wait for their feedback after one or two months use, which seems to me to be enough to get an idea)
  
  
• find a commercial name for the product
  
  
• find a reliable and competent carrier for shipments (and also enquire about countries where delivery will be impossible due to local laws (for people in these situations, I think it's still possible to send the atomizer as a kit (i.e. you'd have to assemble the ribbon yourself)))

The project is still in the prototype stage, so there are still quite a few crucial points to be defined before the launch (I think I'll still be on schedule for this year, but time will tell)

Once again, I welcome any help you can give me, because we can think better together than alone. If anyone has any idea, improvements, criticisms or anything else, don't hesitate, I'm open to suggestions and I'd be delighted to discuss them with you!

 

[oddjobold]

This is the one i am waiting for. Any update?

 

[DgN'R]

This is the one i am waiting for. Any update?

Thank you for taking news of the project

The project has been somewhat delayed but is still planned and is currently still in the prototype phase. The design and dimensions of the latest prototype are perfect but I finally decided to add a dedicated SS knurled airflow ring (like an e-cig atomizer) instead of using the wooden sleeve to adjust it because depending on environmental conditions, type of wood (with tolerances) and whether it is running or not, it can become quite difficult to adjust or on the contrary become too loose. It also reduces the strength of the O-rings over time if you turn the sleeve often, so it wasn't necessarily a good idea. In addition, this creates an air path completely isolated from the wood (with the basic idea of a wooden sleeve, there were six air holes running through it). The idea now is that once the sleeve is fitted to the atomizer, it won't move (unless you remove it for atomizer cleaning or other purposes). This also reduces the height by a few millimeters, as the air holes are now integrated directly into the knurling and not on the upper level. It also reduces the final weight and makes it easier to make wooden sleeves, which is a good thing. I think that was the last small improvement possible, it looks great the way it is.

I have also changed factories (always in China) in the meantime and the new one is ISO 9001 standardized and provides very high quality and precision and respectable lead times. The atomizer will be SS304 and the ribbon SS430 (material certificates will be available). Unfortunately, I still don't have an official date to announce, but it probably won't be for the end of the year, I think it will be more towards the beginning of the year, at least towards the first quarter if all goes well.

I'll add more details soon, at the moment I'm working hard on the convection cap for DynaVap, which should be ready soon and will probably be the only project this year

 

[XpeeN]

Can't wait

 

[BigJr48]

Really looking forward to it