Post-Processing Rosin - Your wish, after the squish

[arb]

I seem to see it all go to a sticky brown sugar consistency over a few weeks except for thca isolate that is extremely stable.
That is on a shelf out of direct light at room temp.
Flavors do mellow and the overall experience is less acrid,biting on the throat imo.

 

[invertedisdead]

Very interesting.
They say 6h is perfect for lemons, but 0h for oranges.

When doing sirups and jelly/jam I also encountered this phenomenon.
Should be the same for cannabis-terpenes too.
But I remember a fruity smelling rosin that turned to a vinegar smell which could be aerated away again luckily.

I wonder if there is a way to tell in advance if a rosin would profit of some oxidation or something?
Like when the bud gets better with a long cure, maybe the rosin of the same strain also likes to sit a bit?

Btw The bud to the vinegar rosin never smelled like vinegar. It needed the trichomes to melt to do that.

If anything it at least adds to the mysteriousness that there is no perfect way to do it, some stuff is just better fresh, others after a proper cure.

We do know there is enzymatic action occuring when you cure flower, as most of the monoterpenes evaporate, and the sesquiterpenes then form entirely new compounds. Would be interesting to see and sample the differences between material processed from the same plant - one batch cured in flower, the other pressed and cured as rosin, then compare the end products of equal maturity. Only flaw with that test is the results could be different for every genetic so it wouldnt be conclusive either!

I like to look to ancient wisdom, when looking at traditional producers it seems the flower AND hash are often cured, though it depends on the region. Hand rubbed plants for Charas seem to be mostly done with Sativa's, say in Nepal. Whereas Kush from Afghanistan is always dried extensively before sieving. There's also considerable humdiity differences in these regions which likely influences the process as well.

 

[Thick Vape]

If anything it at least adds to the mysteriousness that there is no perfect way to do it, some stuff is just better fresh, others after a proper cure.

We do know there is enzymatic action occuring when you cure flower, as most of the monoterpenes evaporate, and the sesquiterpenes then form entirely new compounds. Would be interesting to see and sample the differences between material processed from the same plant - one batch cured in flower, the other pressed and cured as rosin, then compare the end products of equal maturity. Only flaw with that test is the results could be different for every genetic so it wouldnt be conclusive either!

I like to look to ancient wisdom, when looking at traditional producers it seems the flower AND hash are often cured, though it depends on the region. Hand rubbed plants for Charas seem to be mostly done with Sativa's, say in Nepal. Whereas Kush from Afghanistan is always dried extensively before sieving. There's also considerable humdiity differences in these regions which likely influences the process as well.

I see it like that too. There is not one perfect way. Every genetic and environment lends itself to a different processing.
In the countries where they sieve hash, they wait for wintertime because it is cold and dry, which is great for processing hash. Especially if you have no freezer or other modern equipment. Plus cured plants just give more yield than fresh plants when sieved.
And farmers generally have more time for processing in wintertime than in summer, when they work in the fields.
So maybe the traditional curing was done not for the cureing per se, but because in autumn it is just too wet and warm to make sieved hash?

I believe rubbed hash is done in pretty wet climates mostly, but i am not 100% sure about that.
It is the traditional way of making live resin, somehow.
And the Sadhus took the time and effort to go up to the valleys and rub their hash to consume it fresh. So there were always people liking the monoterpenes and fresh hash and some appreciating more the cured products, I think.
People that had the luck to smoke fresh rubbed hash and tried to take some back to europe told me it somehow looses alot of its magic. They then thought it had to do with the thin air in the airplane or something which dried out the hand rubbed charras.

The traditional ways they could tweak them for a couple of centuries to find out what works best in that region with that strain the technical possibilities and the consumption method. So I think it is still at least worth looking at these techniques to learn even with our new possibilities, techniques and tests.

BTW: In my very very limited experience I did prefer the fresh pressed and then cured rosin, to the cured flower and then pressed (and maybe cured) rosin.

 

[scy123]

Do terpenes boil at room temp? did another run today and it keeps doing this after I stir it up to get it to settle.

https://imgur.com/niDGwiY

This is the 3rd time I whip it up to remove bubbles. The bubbles keep coming up out of no where.

 

[Hackerman]

LOL... Pain in the ass, isn't it.

Some presses do this and some don't. I never boiled it down to being caused by strain, age, moisture, etc.

Stir it up and leave the lid open. Eventually, it stops.

I use much larger jars now to allow for this. LOL

AFAIK, this is the rosin decarbing. It's the release of CO2 as the rosin converts from THCa to THC (or perhaps the decarbing of other terps and cannabinoids). Either way, it appears to be CO2 releasing.

 

[scy123]

I'm more incline to thinking it's the terpenes boiling at room temp than the thca decarbing.

This one is actually a terp fraction after having mechanically separated the thca, so the percentage of terps in this one is higher than regular rosin and percentage of thca lower.

 

[Hackerman]

Could be. Sure is pretty.

Rosin Champagne LOL

 

[scy123]

It was actually a hardish budder consistency before the thca press. And I let it sit for a a few days to crash more thca.

It never showed any change to texture or anything in the budder consistency, which is interesting. Is budder more stable or does the structure allow gas to pass through easier

 

[Thick Vape]

the structure allow gas to pass through easier

I am thinking this is this is .

I am also more inclined to believe the bubbles come from the terpenes evaporating or maybe there is some terpene degradation going on that releases a gas.
Would be interesting to measure the composition of the gas in your jar. (headspace)

 

[scy123]

Well gas is definitely being generated some how. After the thca press the terp fraction was frozen for 2 days and left in a jar after being collected over a week ago. This is the result after stirring every other day or so.

My first batch did this exact thing for 2 weeks before stopping. I even froze it and took it out and it started doing it again.

 

[Thick Vape]

What does it smell like when you open the jar?
Can you smell any difference to when there where no bubbles yet?
Does the (bubble)gas burn? (Most likely not, but who knows)

And does the smell change when the bubbling has stopped after 2 weeks?

 

[scy123]

The terp fraction just smells like really good weed really.

My sense of smell is probably not the best, but I never smelled anything off besides a weed smell.

 

[Thick Vape]

It is possible to be just a very volatile terpene ( most likely a monoterpene). Which you could maybe notice by a decreased smell intensity after the bubbling stops.

It could also be CO2 which is odourless. It could come from a decarboxylation of a specific terpene. (I do not think it comes from the THC-a, or this phenomenon would be described more often) It could be (farer fetched) H2, O2, N2, CO, I believe all NOx would be pretty odourless too.

 

[invertedisdead]

It's just pressure built from terpenes trying to evaporate with nowhere to go. Reminds me of my old post processing days. Do you live somewhere hot, like Arizona?

Same physics and process behind making rosin diamonds. People would press directly into the jar and the terpenes build enough pressure to make diamonds once heat is added. Flower rosin is usually too contaminated to grow good sized crystals though, too much wax lipids.

 

[arb]

I think it is air.
Every time you stir it you are spinning air back into the mix.
I would think if it was terpenes the flavor would disappear or change after a while?

 

[scy123]

It's just pressure built from terpenes trying to evaporate with nowhere to go. Reminds me of my old post processing days. Do you live somewhere hot, like Arizona?

Same physics and process behind making rosin diamonds. People would press directly into the jar and the terpenes build enough pressure to make diamonds once heat is added. Flower rosin is usually too contaminated to grow good sized crystals though, too much wax lipids.

It's winter where I am so the jars have been at room temp the whole time. Never heated it again after jaring.

You can see the pressure pushing the disc up too, I left the lid open with a disc on top and a layer of rosin around the lip to create a seal.

 

[Thick Vape]

I wonder what that strain is. Something gassy or limonene maybe that evaporates easy?

 

[invertedisdead]

It's winter where I am so the jars have been at room temp the whole time. Never heated it again after jaring.

You can see the pressure pushing the disc up too, I left the lid open with a disc on top and a layer of rosin around the lip to create a seal.

It's winter here in California as well, but it's been like 80F lately. If you're somewhere warm the ambient temperature will definitely do stuff like that. I thought I recall you being in Arizona or something, but maybe not.

I've probably got photos in this thread of jars that look almost identical from early attempts at rosin diamonds. This forum lost most of the embedded pictures though so they might not be visible anymore.

 

[scy123]

I've probably got photos in this thread of jars that look almost identical from early attempts at rosin diamonds.

When I did jartek it looked the same way. With jartek you boil the terpenes enough to create pressure. That's why I suspect this is terpenes boiling. I'm not really familiar with this behavior, but I don't think normal evaporation will cause pressure like this. I only seen this before with butane extraction cause butane boils at room temp.

 

[Thick Vape]

Ocimene for example boils at 50°C (122°F). Maybe there are even lower boiling terpenes. If it has a big vapour pressure it can evaporate easily below the boiling point. I am all for terpenes causing this.

Just another unlikely hypothesis: It could come from bacterial activity. Basically some bacteria feeding on terpenes or another rosin compound and farting bubbles.
Bet you could detect the smell

 

[invertedisdead]

When I did jartek it looked the same way. With jartek you boil the terpenes enough to create pressure. That's why I suspect this is terpenes boiling. I'm not really familiar with this behavior, but I don't think normal evaporation will cause pressure like this. I only seen this before with butane extraction cause butane boils at room temp.

How would the terpenes be "boiling" with no heat input in the middle of winter?
Particularly if you don't think evaporation could sustain the buildup of pressure?

Didn't we already debate this last year in the rosin thread? Here's one of your previous posts where we discussed this.

Took that jar out for another look today. This is after about 3 days or so that I thought it all settled down. The bottom is mostly settled, but it's still sort of foaming at the top. When settled, the rosin would only reach about up to the "shoulder" of the jar, so it expanded about 5mm up.

https://imgur.com/iQENRTd

https://imgur.com/My9itN6

 

[scy123]

How would the terpenes be "boiling" with no heat input in the middle of winter?

Didn't we already debate this last year in the rosin thread? Here's one of your previous posts where we discussed this.

You don't need heat to boil something that has a low boiling point, do you need heat to turn butane into a gas? I brought it up and no one offered any clues on what was happening, I would hardly call it a discussion.

How else would you explain bubble formation that happens for over 2 weeks on rosin kept at strictly room temp?

 

[arb]

You don't need heat to boil something that has a low boiling point, do you need heat to turn butane into a gas? I brought it up and no one offered any clues on what was happening, I would hardly call it a discussion.

How else would you explain bubble formation that happens for over 2 weeks on rosin kept at strictly room temp?

Trapped air from you stirring it.

 

[invertedisdead]

How else would you explain bubble formation that happens for over 2 weeks on rosin kept at strictly room temp?

Well I'd start by explaining that ~80% of terpenes evaporate in the first week of drying flower at ambient temperatures. The key word is evaporate. Your stance is you don't think evaporation is responsible for the pressure, thus the burden of proof is on you to show us why.

You referenced a solvent extraction process, But you haven't described or suggested any comparable reactions which would appropriate such reactions in your rosin. Except how you don't think it's from evaporation.

You don't need heat to boil something that has a low boiling point, do you need heat to turn butane into a gas?

Limonene has a boiling point over 300F higher than butane. Which cannabis terpenes boil at or near 30F, like butane? And how would they even end up in your repressed rosin with such a low BP?

The difference between liquid butane in my torch lighter, and butane gas, is the pressure.

Edited to say, please, enjoy the last word - a familiar pattern in every dialog I've ever had with you. I'm not gonna talk in circles all day long.

Peace.

 

[scy123]

Trapped air from you stirring it.

It's building pressure as well, I know cause the disc I placed on top popped up from the pressure build up. Trapped air does not cause a build up of pressure.

https://imgur.com/niDGwiY

The key word is evaporate. Your stance is you don't think evaporation is responsible for the pressure, thus the burden of proof is on you to show us why.

Have you ever seen any other form of concentrate build up pressure from evaporation and not boiling? Isopropanol boils at 83c, yet I never seen iso washes that bubbles the concentrate at room temp.

You referenced a solvent extraction process, But you haven't described or suggested any comparable reactions which would appropriate such reactions in your rosin. Except how you don't think it's from evaporation.

Butane boils at -1c, lower than room temp. When you leave extractions with butane left over it will form small bubbles at room temp. If their are terpenes that boil at room temp in the rosin this would be similar.

Limonene has a boiling point over 300F higher than butane. Which cannabis terpenes boil at or near 30F, like butane? And how would they even end up in your repressed rosin with such a low BP?

Do you have a list of all known terpenes and know what they boil at? The boiling points of terpenes vary wildly. Thick Vape just listed one that boils at 122f. This quote also contradicts your previous quote.

I don't claim to know what exactly is happening, that is why we are having this discussion, my best guess is terpenes boiling, what guess do you make?

Edit:

Edited to say, please, enjoy the last word - a familiar pattern in every dialog I've ever had with you. I'm not gonna talk in circles all day long.

Peace.

This feels like a cop out. I don't feel any info I posted is incorrect besides the maybe extreme assumptions that terpenes might be boiling at room temp. It's only extreme cause I have no other explanation for it. If you feel it's bubbling cause of evaporation you can make a case, but I have never seen anything bubble from the solvents evaporating and not boiling.