Need info on making concentrates for topical use

[Soleil]

Hi everyone,
I am VERY new to the world of concentrates, but I have been doing a TON of research. The difficulty I'm having is that my needs differ from 99% of people posting info and feedback on their concentrates. So i'm coming out of lurker-ville and have mustered the courage to post my questions!

I am starting a business making topical creams. After using a cannabis-coconut oil infusion in my first batch, I determined that it results in a product too green and odiferous for the market I will be targeting (older adults who may have little to no experience with cannabis use of any kind). I realize that the smell is coming from terpenes, which have their own therapeutic benefit. So I'm not aiming to get rid of the smell entirely, just reduce it some. This led me to researching concentrates and how to make them, since that would mean using less in the cream to achieve the same potency that I would using greater amounts of cannabis infused coconut oil.

Here's what I'm using:
Dried trim (high quality, although strain(s) unknown)
190 proof ethanol
Dry ice
The Source extractor machine

Here are my questions:
1. Do I need to be concerned about reducing the oil as far down as most people do for smoking purposes? It seems like it might actually benefit my product to have a slight amount of residual alcohol in there, as that will help extend shelf-life I think. Not to mention, it's easier to handle when it's still in a more oily form - before it has reduced down to a thicker or even harder consistency. I plan to have it tested to be sure it remains below the FDA acceptable limits for ethanol in cosmetic products.
2. Do I need to be as concerned about temperature ranges for this purpose? I've read reports about the Source reaching higher temps than is ideal when trying to produce a concentrate for smoking.
3. Is it necessary to winterize my washes before purging in the Source?
4. Still unsure of the perfect wash time. I chill my material, alcohol, and filters. I have only attempted one run using the QWISO method on skunkpharm's site (30sec wash). Purged with a hot oil bath (no Source at that time). Seemed to turn out ok, but with a very low yield (about half a gram/oz material). It is crucial that I get better yields than this! Thinking I'll try the suggested 3-min wash for the Source. Filter the material IN the cooler with dry ice. Any thoughts?
5. Filters. Have a Buchner filter/paper/flask on the way and will use the Source vacuum to pull. If I filter it first using that method, should I filter again? If so, using what kind of filter? I'd want to go smaller, right, to capture the smaller particles that might have made it through the first time?

Any other input you have is greatly appreciated! I will not, however, be switching solvents. Thank you!

 

[shredder]

Hi everyone,
I am VERY new to the world of concentrates, but I have been doing a TON of research. The difficulty I'm having is that my needs differ from 99% of people posting info and feedback on their concentrates. So i'm coming out of lurker-ville and have mustered the courage to post my questions!

I am starting a business making topical creams. After using a cannabis-coconut oil infusion in my first batch, I determined that it results in a product too green and odiferous for the market I will be targeting (older adults who may have little to no experience with cannabis use of any kind). I realize that the smell is coming from terpenes, which have their own therapeutic benefit. So I'm not aiming to get rid of the smell entirely, just reduce it some. This led me to researching concentrates and how to make them, since that would mean using less in the cream to achieve the same potency that I would using greater amounts of cannabis infused coconut oil.

Here's what I'm using:
Dried trim (high quality, although strain(s) unknown)
190 proof ethanol
Dry ice
The Source extractor machine

Here are my questions:
1. Do I need to be concerned about reducing the oil as far down as most people do for smoking purposes? It seems like it might actually benefit my product to have a slight amount of residual alcohol in there, as that will help extend shelf-life I think. Not to mention, it's easier to handle when it's still in a more oily form - before it has reduced down to a thicker or even harder consistency. I plan to have it tested to be sure it remains below the FDA acceptable limits for ethanol in cosmetic products.
2. Do I need to be as concerned about temperature ranges for this purpose? I've read reports about the Source reaching higher temps than is ideal when trying to produce a concentrate for smoking.
3. Is it necessary to winterize my washes before purging in the Source?
4. Still unsure of the perfect wash time. I chill my material, alcohol, and filters. I have only attempted one run using the QWISO method on skunkpharm's site (30sec wash). Purged with a hot oil bath (no Source at that time). Seemed to turn out ok, but with a very low yield (about half a gram/oz material). It is crucial that I get better yields than this! Thinking I'll try the suggested 3-min wash for the Source. Filter the material IN the cooler with dry ice. Any thoughts?
5. Filters. Have a Buchner filter/paper/flask on the way and will use the Source vacuum to pull. If I filter it first using that method, should I filter again? If so, using what kind of filter? I'd want to go smaller, right, to capture the smaller particles that might have made it through the first time?

Any other input you have is greatly appreciated! I will not, however, be switching solvents. Thank you!

1) not so much except you need to accurately measure amounts, so I'd reduce it as much as I could.

2) here's where you need to do your research on the temps cannabinoids vaporize. And reference that to what cannabinoids you want to preserve, and go from there. But most would want to use just enough heat to decarboliize. Or not decarb if that's what you want. Or you may want cannabinoids that are formed by heat. Research.

3) probably not for topical use

4) I'd soak longer, again this isn't for vaping

5) I use unbleached coffee filters at roughly 25 microns

I've made mj topicals with varing success, but my best (arthritis, pain) involved using mj roots. I cleaned, dried and ground roots that I had in a crock pot in coconut oil for 24 hour, and used that oil for a base. I've tried adding other oils as well, but I'm sure you have researched this already.

 

[Soleil]

Thanks, Shredder. Yes, I have researched the cannabinoid vaporizing temps - seems most of them do so at temps much higher than I would ever take them. I am starting with a 1:1 THC/CBD blend in the cream, so I have been decarbing my material first. Have definitely researched other oils - there's a whole bunch of other great pain relieving herbs going into this! Thanks again for the input.

 

[simplywonderful]

1) not so much except you need to accurately measure amounts, so I'd reduce it as much as I could.

2) here's where you need to do your research on the temps cannabinoids vaporize. And reference that to what cannabinoids you want to preserve, and go from there. But most would want to use just enough heat to decarboliize. Or not decarb if that's what you want. Or you may want cannabinoids that are formed by heat. Research.

3) probably not for topical use

4) I'd soak longer, again this isn't for vaping

5) I use unbleached coffee filters at roughly 25 microns

I've made mj topicals with varing success, but my best (arthritis, pain) involved using mj roots. I cleaned, dried and ground roots that I had in a crock pot in coconut oil for 24 hour, and used that oil for a base. I've tried adding other oils as well, but I'm sure you have researched this already.

Please forgive curious pigeon to bump old thread but it got me really excited.
Do you grind the roots with/out the oil before or after you boil it ?
Excuse my stupidity but how do one filter all the mass and retrieve the most oil ( I have arthritis myself so its quite harsh to squeeze all of it by my hands). When I saw the buchner funnell with vacuum suction I immediately thought of using something like that with various filters, but would it be effective? would it clogg? I tried to research this before but I have not found much useful information.
Thank you for your help and I wish you a beautiful day
P.S if you have any tips with the arthritis salve please share
thank you very much

 

[feralcomprehension]

There is an enormous amount of information in the giant Another Tincture Thread at GrassCity, including lots of discussion of root balm and extraction methods.

EverMystique(?) is one of the contributors and started working w roots around 2017 . Def worth studying that thread- the principles take it seriously, which I like.