Phase3 Vaporizers

coolbreeze

Well-Known Member
Well then. A big brother is needed because small amounts do not saturate the taste buds the same way ;)
You can go larger, of course, and I don't think you'll find better flavor! The point with this one is roasting comfortable amounts with an efficient, pure convection path at lower temps. The result is outstanding flavor and a unique and powerful high signature.

Here's .1g, measured by Dynavap tip. You could fit more, I've been doing about half of that. Excellent flavor and high.
IMG-2960.jpg


One more point: Unless you are really wedded to a one-hit-and-done session, it may be better to have a go-smaller option. Why? Well, ball vapes are fun, and who can stop at one hit? But multiple hits at .05g add up a lot slower than .5g loads. It's an option to more easily manage your use/cashflow/health without getting carried away. You can do smaller hits in other ball vapes, but not as effectively in my opinion.
 
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madhockeydad

Art is beauty
Hi. In terms of future direction I think the steady progress and innovation that @invertedisdead has made is the right approach. There is a reason that glass and ceramic has worked well and I'm more curious about the new thoughts he has for the next iteration without any constraints. If SS or TI delivers a better experience then I could understand using them. However, given my personal experience with all the materials I prefer the Z8 and 1.7 by a wide margin.

In terms of cost - that's always going to be an ongoing issue that gets better as scale increases. But in all honesty, it compares in a similar cost range to other setups. I see the value as high for the cost but I am lucky to be able to afford one.

I love the discussion. Looking forward to the journey as always.

D

BTW: an injector version for an 18 mm joint/bowl would be cool. I second that though I love the micro-dosing.
 

Haze Mister

Verdant Bloomer
Manufacturer
One more point: Unless you are really wedded to a one-hit-and-done session, it may be better to have a go-smaller option. Why? Well, ball vapes are fun, and who can stop at one hit? But multiple hits at .05g add up a lot slower than .5g loads. It's an option to more easily manage your use/cashflow/health without getting carried away. You can do smaller hits in other ball vapes, but not as effectively in my opinion.
Sure, i just found a more satisfying experience from a one-hit-and-done larger load, in terms of flavour as well as effect...but it is super potent stuff and easily gets out of hand ... it's like dabbing but with all the flavour....:smug:
Spreadin it out over several small bowls was a different experience, more like traditional vapes.
 

coolbreeze

Well-Known Member
Spreadin it out over several small bowls was a different experience, more like traditional vapes.
I can see that. A DV bowl feels different than a DV/FMJ bowl. I guess for me a .1 or .2 load is pushing the limits of my rusty old lungs, so beyond that is moot. I'd have to do second hits and/or cleanups with anything larger than ~.07g to be honest.
 

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
18MM version is certainly possible, there's actually a render of it on my Instagram as one of the first posts; but there’s already so many devices in that size to compete with. I’m really trying to stay in my own lane here. Plus the first 7 versions I made were already 18mm which I’ve been testing heavily since 2019. I didn't really downsize to 14MM in an attempt to stand out from other ball vapes, that change was inspired by using my 14MM SCVW and seeing how powerful it is with such small amounts of herb. Even older heavies like the Sublimator were sort of designed to vape about .1g
I think the harshness ramps up pretty progressively with larger convection bowls. I feel like I can get a lower temp one hitter out of the Z8 than my larger versions which ultimately equals better flavor.

There’s still enough space in the 14MM bowl to load up to .25g which IMHO is plenty, any more than that and I’m frankly just going to take a dab instead. Sometimes even .05g of good herb can be challenging enough to finish in one hit if you are a more low temp user. I imagine most Z8 owners are going to want to finish a bowl in 1-3 draws.

As for alternate materials, again that is a possibility; if that’s something people are really interested in this is the right place to say that and let me know! As one who has most fun developing new stuff, I don’t really care to start selling SUV’s just because there’s a bigger market than sports cars; but I do see the posts online and that the bulk of the community is usually going for the easier priced gear most of the time.

I get it because I wanted a Cloud Evo for many years when I was younger and couldn’t afford it. I still remember 5-6 years ago excitedly saving money all year long just for the annual NV Black Friday sale.

If it did happen, there would probably only be one other version.
Probably stainless steel over titanium.

As I've hinted at before, I was more-so thinking of doing a stainless steel torch vape next.
Stainless steel has a high density (thus "mass") which makes it a good candidate for butane power in a "stored heat" type of design.

I am concerned that if I don't offer a more accessible Z8 variation that others will come along quickly and vacuum up all of my hard work. If that happens I might just jump out of the plane cause I'm not really going to participate in the race to the bottom.
But I am open to the possibility of introducing a more affordable variation of my own design and leaving the Z8 as my "GT3".
That would pretty much fill the void I was looking to fill with my butane vape idea.
Either way I do have to add something to my portfolio I can get quicker as the Z8 lead time is going to stay pretty consistent.

Also, want to pass along a few things we've learned,
Until further notice please do NOT torch your Z8. The material has not been sufficiently tested for torch use and I cannot recommend trying it at all until it's been explored further. There might be a thermal shock issue with it similar to how sapphire responds in regards to very sudden high temperature changes.

Also, @Slickwilly passed along a great tip to me for seating the bowl screens. He suggested using something with a 14MM male joint as a seating tool to put the screen in place. I tried it last night and it really worked excellent, if anyone is having screen issues please give that a try and see what you think.

Also, if I installed your coil and it has loosened up, please send me a message.
I definitely got more confident with setting them the more that I did, but it's possible the first couple might not have been quite as good. If that happened to anybody please don't hesitate to reach out. Hopefully this will be eliminated entirely on future batches with a slight adjustment to the parts tolerance.

Cheers to everyone following along!
 

pxl_jockey

Just a dude
Got notification this evening that my Z8 has landed! Picking it up tomorrow!

Man, every time a premium, usually boutiques, vape comes out and the price is more than $200, random people bitch online and say it‘s too expensive. That is life, there are levels of everything and they cost accordingly. It‘s like… either save or budget, or accept it’s beyond your means. There are glass rigs & pipes (name any material possession) that I would love to have but the artist’s pieces go for more than I can afford and it’s on me to accept that. Or if it‘s something I really really want, I can make other sacrifices, budget and save. What I can’t do is go to the artist and tell him I want him to make a cheaper version with lesser quality glass.

Honestly, I’m not sure that another titanium ball vape is what the market needs, I can think of five of those off the top of head, all priced competitively. Maybe SS might be better, even cheaper than titanium if cost is to be the driving factor. It’s ultimately what inverted wants to make and how wide he wants to cast his net. Lots of small business do very well with small batch products made with top quality stuff. My new Heavy Atlas also arrived on the same plane, another one-man shop and with the options I chose, I believe it was a bit more than my Z8.

It was in the same ballpark though and I’m sure it’s more than some people are willing to pay for a vape, but I don’t hear people moaning about it. But iDB makes quite a few offerings with different tech and options, so maybe that’s how he deals with it. I just don’t understand why people who don’t have/haven’t used a Z8 and maybe don’t understand why zirconia ceramic was chosen for its superior properties, are immediately asking for an SS or Titanium model? If they truly understand its properties, then it’s not about durability so is it strictly the price point?

Jeebus, I typed this whole ranting diatribe only to see that the maker has weighed in on all this! Forget everything except I’m getting my Z8 tomorrow! I have a quick day of testing before having another surgery this Friday. This one‘s just day surgery and I made sure I won’t have to stay for the weekend, told the surgeon that I have some serious vaporising to do and can’t stick around.
 

Vaporware

Well-Known Member
@Haze Mister How much do you want to load in an 18mm version?

I’ve loosely loaded the bowl like 80% of the way to the heater, set the controller to 400 and extracted it pretty well over several draws (with a little stirring which may or may not have been necessary). It also shrank away from the heater quickly on the first draw which probably made a difference.

I’m not sure how it would be at a higher temp with a tighter pack, but I think it should be possible to get a larger load done quickly. I also got a surprising amount of vapor out of just covering the screen at 525.

I’d be interested to see the difference between a 14 and 18, and I do think that you could get faster extraction of a larger amount, but I’d also say it’s worth trying the 14mm version before assuming it can’t produce enough vapor.

The first draw I took, maybe half the length I’d take with a (non-baller) FlowerPot or other convection heater I’m used to, was a lot for me.

I loaded just a little more than enough to cover the screen, thought a “short” draw would be safe enough, and a few minutes later my body was vibrating. :uhoh:

I actually like that feeling and haven’t really felt it in years, but there’s a reason…

The downside is I have muscle issues that I use this for, and for some reason these days if I get there too fast (maybe at all?) I end up with some parts of my body (especially most of my back/shoulders/neck) feeling crazy tight so all I can do is contort myself, apply some heat/pressure/etc. to try to improve it and it’s pretty miserable for an hour or two…hence the :rip: in my last post. :disgust:

I think it has to do with my muscles being tight all the time and by relaxing them I think it’s pulling specific places extra tight, especially because I feel like my shoulders and a few other places are always a bit out of place from where they should be…trying to put them back in place is part of reducing the pain…but it’s…not fun.

If anyone reading this has similar experiences and maybe some insight, I’d be happy to hear it!

I think I’m repeating some of things @invertedisdead said, and maybe not as well, but I wrote half of it before he posted so I’ll leave it here anyway. :)

Also, to weigh in quickly on the “GT3” idea, I like just about everything about the Z8 and if a Stainless Steel version would get close in most categories (performance, airflow, efficiency, etc.) I think it would be worth getting some out there for the people who aren’t ready/able to spend enough for a Z8.

If you get it in the pipeline now hopefully you’ll beat the copies and get a more established name so at least people will look to Phase3 for “the real thing”. :)

If the parts you had made before only need some cleanup maybe you can find a shop to do it and get the first round out even faster!
 

coolbreeze

Well-Known Member
Got notification this evening that my Z8 has landed! Picking it up tomorrow!

Man, every time a premium, usually boutiques, vape comes out and the price is more than $200, random people bitch online and say it‘s too expensive. That is life, there are levels of everything and they cost accordingly. It‘s like… either save or budget, or accept it’s beyond your means. There are glass rigs & pipes (name any material possession) that I would love to have but the artist’s pieces go for more than I can afford and it’s on me to accept that. Or if it‘s something I really really want, I can make other sacrifices, budget and save. What I can’t do is go to the artist and tell him I want him to make a cheaper version with lesser quality glass.

Honestly, I’m not sure that another titanium ball vape is what the market needs, I can think of five of those off the top of head, all priced competitively. Maybe SS might be better, even cheaper than titanium if cost is to be the driving factor. It’s ultimately what inverted wants to make and how wide he wants to cast his net. Lots of small business do very well with small batch products made with top quality stuff. My new Heavy Atlas also arrived on the same plane, another one-man shop and with the options I chose, I believe it was a bit more than my Z8.

It was in the same ballpark though and I’m sure it’s more than some people are willing to pay for a vape, but I don’t hear people moaning about it. But iDB makes quite a few offerings with different tech and options, so maybe that’s how he deals with it. I just don’t understand why people who don’t have/haven’t used a Z8 and maybe don’t understand why zirconia ceramic was chosen for its superior properties, are immediately asking for an SS or Titanium model? If they truly understand its properties, then it’s not about durability so is it strictly the price point?

Jeebus, I typed this whole ranting diatribe only to see that the maker has weighed in on all this! Forget everything except I’m getting my Z8 tomorrow! I have a quick day of testing before having another surgery this Friday. This one‘s just day surgery and I made sure I won’t have to stay for the weekend, told the surgeon that I have some serious vaporising to do and can’t stick around.
I agree, but I think I see more of wanting to share an awesome thing than really bitching about the price per se. Most folks are asking for a model their friend can afford, not that they are unsatisfied with the price for the Z8. Still, Inverted has a vision of what he'd like to do and we're all here because of his adherence to that vision!
 

madhockeydad

Art is beauty
Funny story that turned into a learning moment for me. I use a Dabhali dab mat and the hot coil of the Z8 briefly fell on it. I turned it off as there was a small amount of some material burned on. Scotch Brite and I'm doing a burn off. That's not the interesting thing for me.

While waiting I plugged in my TiTi and setup my 18 mm rig. I've gone through 3 bowls on that and without hesitation the Z8 at 510 hits harder and tastes better than the TiTi from 540 - 600 and the B0 from 568 - 636. Simply no comparison.

Now the Z8 is doing a burn off before I use it. Running it up to 640 for a bit and then I'll cool it off to 510. Now my ball vape order of preference is Z8, Inv 1.7. TiTi, and finally B0. I think there is something to the material difference in the housing as I have models for both 14 and 18 mm bowls (1.7 was a 18mm design).

I'm super glad that I'm along on this journey and I'll take the improvement in performance (did I mention that I'm using about 65% less per bowl) over a Ti or SS version any day!!

Congrats @invertedisdead
 

Haze Mister

Verdant Bloomer
Manufacturer
@Haze Mister How much do you want to load in an 18mm version?
TBH I didn't take into account the Z8 injector being much shorter than a standard 14mm male joint, so it looks like there may be enough space in the current bowl!

As for screen seating troubles--- when i was experimenting with a 14mmm version of my own rig, I could never get the screen to sit in place in the bowl i was using. In the end I gave up and used a rolled up piece of fired stainless steel wool instead , wedged into the bottom of the bowl ... That works quite well and also helps to clean the inner sides of the bowl when you pull it out .... currently looking for a glass screen that has good airflow AND does not let herb particles through.... :mental:
 
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yeswecann

Well-Known Member
18MM version is certainly possible, there's actually a render of it on my Instagram as one of the first posts; but there’s already so many devices in that size to compete with. I’m really trying to stay in my own lane here. Plus the first 7 versions I made were already 18mm which I’ve been testing heavily since 2019. I didn't really downsize to 14MM in an attempt to stand out from other ball vapes, that change was inspired by using my 14MM SCVW and seeing how powerful it is with such small amounts of herb. Even older heavies like the Sublimator were sort of designed to vape about .1g
I think the harshness ramps up pretty progressively with larger convection bowls. I feel like I can get a lower temp one hitter out of the Z8 than my larger versions which ultimately equals better flavor.

There’s still enough space in the 14MM bowl to load up to .25g which IMHO is plenty, any more than that and I’m frankly just going to take a dab instead. Sometimes even .05g of good herb can be challenging enough to finish in one hit if you are a more low temp user. I imagine most Z8 owners are going to want to finish a bowl in 1-3 draws.

As for alternate materials, again that is a possibility; if that’s something people are really interested in this is the right place to say that and let me know! As one who has most fun developing new stuff, I don’t really care to start selling SUV’s just because there’s a bigger market than sports cars; but I do see the posts online and that the bulk of the community is usually going for the easier priced gear most of the time.

I get it because I wanted a Cloud Evo for many years when I was younger and couldn’t afford it. I still remember 5-6 years ago excitedly saving money all year long just for the annual NV Black Friday sale.

If it did happen, there would probably only be one other version.
Probably stainless steel over titanium.

As I've hinted at before, I was more-so thinking of doing a stainless steel torch vape next.
Stainless steel has a high density (thus "mass") which makes it a good candidate for butane power in a "stored heat" type of design.

I am concerned that if I don't offer a more accessible Z8 variation that others will come along quickly and vacuum up all of my hard work. If that happens I might just jump out of the plane cause I'm not really going to participate in the race to the bottom.
But I am open to the possibility of introducing a more affordable variation of my own design and leaving the Z8 as my "GT3".
That would pretty much fill the void I was looking to fill with my butane vape idea.
Either way I do have to add something to my portfolio I can get quicker as the Z8 lead time is going to stay pretty consistent.

Also, want to pass along a few things we've learned,
Until further notice please do NOT torch your Z8. The material has not been sufficiently tested for torch use and I cannot recommend trying it at all until it's been explored further. There might be a thermal shock issue with it similar to how sapphire responds in regards to very sudden high temperature changes.

Also, @Slickwilly passed along a great tip to me for seating the bowl screens. He suggested using something with a 14MM male joint as a seating tool to put the screen in place. I tried it last night and it really worked excellent, if anyone is having screen issues please give that a try and see what you think.

Also, if I installed your coil and it has loosened up, please send me a message.
I definitely got more confident with setting them the more that I did, but it's possible the first couple might not have been quite as good. If that happened to anybody please don't hesitate to reach out. Hopefully this will be eliminated entirely on future batches with a slight adjustment to the parts tolerance.

Cheers to everyone following along!
I'm still picking my jaw up off the floor after seeing the $330 price tag. I thought it was gonna be like $50. Can a SS be made cheaper?
 

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
I'm still picking my jaw up off the floor after seeing the $330 price tag. I thought it was gonna be like $50. Can a SS be made cheaper?

Maybe read about the design process, and the manufacturing partners in Japan, on top of the material all of this adds up... I don't know why it should be so surprising, for artisan designed gear that was produced in small batch overseas, to be this price within the vape industry... If you want to spend $50 you are looking at the wrong thread lol maybe check out the DIY options, it was simply a total misvalue on your part, to think something like this could ever cost $50 imo
 

yeswecann

Well-Known Member
Maybe read about the design process, and the manufacturing partners in Japan, on top of the material all of this adds up... I don't know why it should be so surprising, for artisan designed gear that was produced in small batch overseas, to be this price within the vape industry... If you want to spend $50 you are looking at the wrong thread lol maybe check out the DIY options, it was simply a total misvalue on your part, to think something like this could ever cost $50 imo
Understood, not sure why I was thinking a cylinder with a screw cap would be affordable. I guess CZ is expensive? I just wish someone could get a safe device to market for a fair price.
 

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Understood, not sure why I was thinking a cylinder with a screw cap would be affordable. I guess CZ is expensive? I just wish someone could get a safe device to market for a fair price.

It is not just a cylinder, that is why I suggested reading through the thread, so you could see how thoughtfully this thing was designed down to every little detail, there were several versions before this one, and yes zirconia is extremely expensive, making a completely from scratch design custom-made is super expensive, especially when you use quality manufacturing companies... Anyway I'd suggest looking around other threads here, I think there are plenty of safe devices available at fair prices
 

yeswecann

Well-Known Member
It is not just a cylinder, that is why I suggested reading through the thread, so you could see how thoughtfully this thing was designed down to every little detail, there were several versions before this one, and yes zirconia is extremely expensive, making a completely from scratch design custom-made is super expensive, especially when you use quality manufacturing companies... Anyway I'd suggest looking around other threads here, I think there are plenty of safe devices available at fair prices
Thanks. I'm riffing on titi design concepts to safely secure the ball load LOL I don't think 8 lb friction fit of the B-Zero is safe enough.
 
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