InVerzion Vaporizer

yeswecann

Well-Known Member
For those wondering (probably not many of us if we're in this particular enthusiast forum) I've tried many many glass pieces. The GooRoo 3 piece bubbler is the most open airflow I've found. It has a totally open down stem with smaller holes in the side as well and it seriously makes the overall experience of the Z8 better compared to my beaker bong. And the glass on the HD bubbler is super thick as well.

Edit: @invertedisdead Just out of curiosity, would you consider producing a version of the Z8 out of a cheaper material like Stainless or Titanium. Like an S8 or T8 maybe? I assume you can send the same design to be machined from different materials but I could be wrong on that. It would give more people access to the design, allowing for growth and potentially opening the door to enable new designs to form. The S8 and T8 wouldn't necessarily provide
the intended flavor, but it could achieve the intended efficiency. I think the lack of conduction definitely is part of the signature for the Z8. But I believe the geometry may be the main reason for the efficiency of the vape, regardless of the of the heater casing being ceramic or metal or glass. I may be wrong but I suppose you'd have to try it to find out ;)
YES PLEASE…for us broke ass plebs

what are you talking about ?
That friction fit screens ala Pinky, Titi, B-Zero are not safe…looking at nut, bolt, holed washer designs

I was afraid to ask the cost, $330 seems pretty reasonable, especially compared to $500+ sapphire gem inserts, cheers!

https://rubiesareforever.com/collections/all
Fill it with diamonds!
 
yeswecann,

Haze Mister

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
That friction fit screens ala Pinky, Titi, B-Zero are not safe…looking at nut, bolt, holed washer designs
They are not safe because they all use exposed coils but I don't understand what you mean about the screens not being safe. The Z8 and the B0 are throughly tested designs and the balls are not going anywhere ....
 

yeswecann

Well-Known Member
They are not safe because they all use exposed coils but I don't understand what you mean about the screens not being safe. The Z8 and the B0 are throughly tested designs and the balls are not going anywhere ....
Does the Z8 also use a friction fit screen in the bottom to secure the balls? I heard Troy say B-Zero screen is rated to 8 lbs force. That's nothing…not safe. I guess the first accident will have to happen for CH/NV to get it.
 
yeswecann,

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/CC/FW7/OAB
Does the Z8 also use a friction fit screen in the bottom to secure the balls? I heard Troy say B-Zero screen is rated to 8 lbs force. That's nothing…not safe. I guess the first accident will have to happen for CH/NV to get it.

This general discussion about the safety of ball vapes that are held in with just the screen, is better for a post within Ask FC (also by the way you can quote multiple posts and insert them in one post instead of posting back to back which we try not to do here) as this is also getting a little off topic really for the Z8, it is more general, so perhaps the mods can just move it into a new post there?? I don't really see why anyone would be putting 8 lb of force against these screens especially in normal use so that's your choice to not buy them if you feel they are not safe and or find an alternative mod solution for yourself...
 

yeswecann

Well-Known Member
This general discussion about the safety of ball vapes that are held in with just the screen, is better for a post within Ask FC (also by the way you can quote multiple posts and insert them in one post instead of posting back to back which we try not to do here) as this is also getting a little off topic really for the Z8, it is more general, so perhaps the mods can just move it into a new post there?? I don't really see why anyone would be putting 8 lb of force against these screens especially in normal use so that's your choice to not buy them if you feel they are not safe and or find an alternative mod solution for yourself...
Agreed…veering off topic…will read about the Z8 design in more depth. From an engineering perspective, friction fit is not a safe choice for the application at hand.
 

Planck

believes in Dog
I heard Troy say B-Zero screen is rated to 8 lbs force. That's nothing…not safe.
I'd suggest taking everything that Troy says with a few grains of salt. The balls in a B0 or B1 or B2 weigh a fraction of an ounce. 16 oz in a lb, 8 lbs is 128 ounces so it's at 126 ounces or 126 times stronger than what an engineered item would be.

Example a cable rated to lift 50 tons is very unlikely to fail until it lifts > 100 tons.

IMO the Z8 is priced very fairly, a guys gotta make a living and a profit for research, development and growth. Is there any commercially produced vaporizer that's 50 bux? Wow
 

yeswecann

Well-Known Member
I'd suggest taking everything that Troy says with a few grains of salt. The balls in a B0 or B1 or B2 weigh a fraction of an ounce. 16 oz in a lb, 8 lbs is 128 ounces so it's at 126 ounces or 126 times stronger than what an engineered item would be.

Example a cable rated to lift 50 tons is very unlikely to fail until it lifts > 100 tons.

IMO the Z8 is priced very fairly, a guys gotta make a living and a profit for research, development and growth. Is there any commercially produced vaporizer that's 50 bux? Wow
You might take into consideration more advanced mathematics…a knock could absolutely produce enough force to dislodge the (8 lbs rated) screen and therefore balls. HOT BALLS.

"Is there any commercially produced vaporizer that's 50 bux"

Talking about housings, yes…Taroma/Staroma LIte housing…Tiodw V3 Housing…
 
yeswecann,

BakedDiogenes

Well-Known Member
I'm still picking my jaw up off the floor after seeing the $330 price tag. I thought it was gonna be like $50. Can a SS be made cheaper?
Seriously, why $50?

Just a brass housing from Qaroma is $160.
 

madhockeydad

Art is beauty
Most of this conversation is off topic. Please move safety discussion some place else.

In terms of cost that’s obvious - no bell cape except a DYI is going to fit the bill. Multiple options. Again another thread. Many factors drive cost and everyone has different opinions and financial ability. No matter the space: vapes, weed quality, care l, clothes etc. everything has a range of products. You don’t get the top end experience and materials and design for $50. I sure wish that’s all it cost but that’s not realistic.

Seriously, why $50?

Just a brass housing from Qaroma is $160.

Seriously the cost of any vape is not relevant. It’s one thing to ask how much and say that’s priced too high for me. Totally fair.

We don’t need the justification. That’s an opinion and not really relevant. All that matters is that people like me have tried them and we see and experience the benefit.

I’ll keep advocating for this because it blows away other vapes including the ceramic and glass ones. I have both. Now that’s my experience. Others too so I think there is real validity and support here. That’s what matters to me.

Apologies for being so passionate. I wasn’t intending to insult anyone.
 

coolbreeze

Well-Known Member
Apologies for being so passionate. I wasn’t intending to insult anyone.
Who can blame you? It's a fine vape! ; )

@yeswecann , I just saw or watched something about a pinky build using a bolt and nuts to hold it together; I just did a quick search and can't find it, but it's done and out there. If I can remember where I saw it I'll link it.
 

Zuhdj

Charles Mingus
Does the Z8 also use a friction fit screen in the bottom to secure the balls? I heard Troy say B-Zero screen is rated to 8 lbs force. That's nothing…not safe. I guess the first accident will have to happen for CH/NV to get it.
Dude you are being silly with this one. Beyond the illogical "8lbs" conclusions, the screens aren't friction fit for this or the b-0, which has its own thread btw. The balls don't even weigh half a pound or even a whole ounce for one thing but the screen is not rated by weight. In fact I've never seen any screen rated by weight. I've only ever seen screens catagorized by size and sheets of screen have a weight per square meter but that's it. The b-0 and Z8 have a lip inside where the screen sits. Not friction fit but Euclidean geometrically fit. The titi is friction fit as was the Inv1.7 and the pinky.

They're safe unless you grab it by the hot part don't worry
 

invertedisdead

OG Baller
Manufacturer
I'm starting to wonder if the coils expand a bit further after being powered on for X amount of hours and "breaking in" of sorts- causing that loosening to happen to some folks? Zirconia expands a fair bit when heated, but not as much as metals so I'll adjust the tolerances there for future stuff.


Also thanks all for your valued feedback.
That helps me weigh in on certain decisionZ and ideaZ.

I’m going to send out some local quotes to see if there’s any way I can get Z8’s produced faster.

That's correct: The Z8 has a machined groove that the screen locks into for safety. Not a friction fit.
You have to pretty much destroy the screen to remove the beads.

The price is what it is because they are very expensive to make as they are precision machined in Japan with diamond tools. Few shops are even capable of building these as most are not equipped for it. Specialty work is always more expensive. Realistically they are underpriced for what they cost to make, but I sold them for the same price I was positioning the stainless steel InV2 at. The boro 1.7 on the other hand was only $55 which is what I sold prior to the Z8.
 

coolbreeze

Well-Known Member
Cheers!
IMG-2976.jpg
 

BakedDiogenes

Well-Known Member
I'm starting to wonder if the coils expand a bit further after being powered on for X amount of hours and "breaking in" of sorts- causing that loosening to happen to some folks? Zirconia expands a fair bit when heated, but not as much as metals so I'll adjust the tolerances there for future stuff.
Mine seem to have had this happen. Before firing it up, everything seemed locked in place, but after a bit of time at temp the coil has loosened slightly. Any extra downward pressure while holding it to a bowl can cause slippage.

I don’t know (or can’t tell) if this is affecting heat transfer to the head and rubies, so it hasn’t been a huge issue. I know we all talk of getting Inverted, but I have no plans on turning my Z8 upside down for any reason🤷🏻

Edit: Z8 on HMK



Example of slippage:

 
Last edited:

Zuhdj

Charles Mingus
Mine seem to have had this happen. Before firing it up, everything seemed locked in place, but after a bit of time at temp the coil has loosened slightly. Any extra downward pressure while holding it to a bowl can cause slippage.

I don’t know (or can’t tell) if this is affecting heat transfer to the head and rubies, so it hasn’t been a huge issue. I know we all talk of getting Inverted, but I have no plans on turning my Z8 upside down for any reason🤷🏻

Edit: Z8 on HMK



Example of slippage:

For this reason I wondered if it was possible to add a small indent in the ceramic for a snap ring like the b-0 uses. The ring could come with the head and you would just have a disclaimer in the description saying that to assemble it they'd need the snap ring tool. It would be a bit more consumer friendly.

Another thing that may be helpful would be the make a 14mm stand that screws into the CH stand base. Maybe from aluminum so it's softer than the ceramic? I worry the ceramic would be scratched by a metal stand.

Would the qaroma stand be a good choice for this? It's ceramic so it wouldn't mess up the Z8 but it's also pretty damn safe and solid. This DC stand is a litte precarious on my desk
 

invertedisdead

OG Baller
Manufacturer
Mine seem to have had this happen. Before firing it up, everything seemed locked in place, but after a bit of time at temp the coil has loosened slightly. Any extra downward pressure while holding it to a bowl can cause slippage.

I don’t know (or can’t tell) if this is affecting heat transfer to the head and rubies, so it hasn’t been a huge issue. I know we all talk of getting Inverted, but I have no plans on turning my Z8 upside down for any reason🤷🏻

Edit: Z8 on HMK



Example of slippage:


Dang that's a bit of a bummer to hear, it definitely seems like they are loosening up over time after some sort of an initial break in. I only ran them for a few minutes just to heat-set the housings. Since most ball vapes are metal they expand more when heated so you potentially wouldn't notice it as much. Sort of seems like my glass heaters used to do a similar thing, but I never had the same sort of tolerance control available with the hand worked glass parts, so I always chalked it up to natural variance in the glass. But now I am starting to suspect the coils do expand a bit further after an extended use as it's happened on ones that users installed too.

If it starts bothering you and you don't feel comfortable adjusting it please don't hesitate to send it in and I'll get it cleaned up, re-fit, and bench tested.

For this reason I wondered if it was possible to add a small indent in the ceramic for a snap ring like the b-0 uses. The ring could come with the head and you would just have a disclaimer in the description saying that to assemble it they'd need the snap ring tool. It would be a bit more consumer friendly.

Another thing that may be helpful would be the make a 14mm stand that screws into the CH stand base. Maybe from aluminum so it's softer than the ceramic? I worry the ceramic would be scratched by a metal stand.

Would the qaroma stand be a good choice for this? It's ceramic so it wouldn't mess up the Z8 but it's also pretty damn safe and solid. This DC stand is a litte precarious on my desk

Thing is with a proper friction fit coil it should be near impossible to have any issues.
Seems like the coils are falling out of tolerance which is affecting the fitment.
Enlarging the housing just slightly should fix that without needing to add anything.

I do agree though that some things could be altered for easier assembly for me or the end user.
This would actually be a good candidate for an enclosed housing that recesses the coil inside, as it would hide any marks the coil makes on the inside. Wouldn't be cheap to do though. Maybe if I left the coil exposed but threaded the bezel onto the body it would be more affordable and could lock the coil in from both sides. I still assert with a good friction fit it's a non-issue but the high hardness (and probably price) of the zirconia makes it a little more intimidating for achieving it due to the illusion of it being scratched.

No metals should scratch the ceramic really, it's the inverse - the metal coils have a rough surface finish and the ceramic is very hard and finely polished to a smoothness beyond the requirements for chemical processing so any marks are actually the metal. You need a diamond to scratch the zirconia. Any coil marks should be able to be rubbed out no problem.

That Q stand should be fine hanging from the groove, though I obviously don't have any experience with their stuff at all.

Wish I could offer such a complete package as others do with absolutely all of the accessory bits and electronics, but it would cost a small fortune to put all of that inventory together well beyond that of a grass roots effort. TBH it seems like an op to me, but I digress...

Anyways back to the vape lab, time to catch some Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz's
 
Last edited:

LesPlenty

Well-Known Member
Company Rep
That Q stand should be fine hanging from the groove
I am a tight arse and like tinkering/up cycling and found some $3 diamond wheels for my grinder on Ali to upscale some old cups, like this guy did,
img20221116201300-jpg.42126

I like the idea of the 14mm injector due to power and herb savings but I have a lot of 18mm stuff. Glad to see the vape doing well as options are great @invertedisdead .:tup:
 

LesPlenty

Well-Known Member
Company Rep
But wouldn’t a cheap and cheerful 18/14 adapter solve that?
Since catching up here again I have been experimenting with one of those adapters as a bowl with my Ti baller upside down and worked out that a 14mm bowl is still more than enough for one huge puff!
That said, 18mm to 14mm dropdown adapters will work better for most in the same boat as myself. I just happen to have quite a few of those too.:tup:
I am looking forward to the loose coil fix but think the coil being exposed is easily made safe with one of the coil cover options rather than the expense of machining a complex screw type fully enclosed system.
Something like,
 

BakedDiogenes

Well-Known Member
DISCLAIMER: DON’T TRY THIS SHIT AT HOME!
*
*
*
I decided to do some shake testing and reshaping of the coil. Just slowly tightening here and there until maybe I find a sweet spot.

Again, I want to reiterate that this coil issue does not affect performance in any discernible way, and does not diminish the enjoyment at all. Im just Z8dated and felt like doing some rigorous scientific testing for the community’s sake.

As you can see from the video below the head is pretty secure at room temp.


After 5-10 mins at temp, we can see the coil has loosened slightly, though it did take a bit of effort.


Obviously, this Z ceramic is tough stuff. I hadn’t really planned on whacking the steel stand like I did.

The only other thing I can see as (possibly) an improvement would be to essentially cut the tapered male end by half, so it has a similar short male joint profile like the 1.7. It sometimes takes a bit of rock to pull the head out of the glass bowl.
 

BakedDiogenes

Well-Known Member
For those having issues with the screen still, try a formed 18mm basket like RBT used to make or Alan makes for his wood stems. The one in the video is an old RBT basket, I believe, with a much less fine mesh.


I noticed the screen was getting outside buildup that looked to be cause by some minor tunneling of hot air, but obviously emphasis on minimal.



I suspect the basket screen might help a bit in keeping everything under the hot air stream and less likely to become dislodged when clearing the bowl.

390f:

AVB:
 
Top Bottom