Define Extraction Efficiency

[InTheDark707]

Hope everyone is doing well.

I bought a vape late last year and am looking to upgrade. Doing some research online and I’m having a hard time understanding what everyone means by extracting efficiency? Does Hard hitter also fall within this term?

For example I’ll use 420vapezone reviews and the percentage given for potency/extraction:

V3 pro - 90%
Rogue - 91%
ArGo - 87%
Roffu - 87%

Does this mean that the Roffu is worse in extracting than the v3 (I thought these were similar internals)? I was looking to upgrade from an ArGo to the Rogue or Roffu thinking they would extract my herb faster but now I’m more confused. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[staircase slight of hand]

Does this mean that the Roffu is worse in extracting than the v3 (I thought these were similar internals)?

That’s how I read those numbers, but at the same time they also seem massively subjective (in a way that makes trying to differentiate them by a single percentage point seem almost comically misguided). I guarantee that 420vapezone has no scientific basis for those numbers.

 

[AssistedLiving]

who knows what those numbers mean, maybe they asked at reddit,
there are some old studies here's an abstract

Inhalation by vaporization is a promising application mode for cannabis in medicine. An in vitro validation of 5 commercial vaporizers was performed with THC-type and CBD-type cannabis. Gas chromatography/mass spectrometry was used to determine recoveries of total THC (THCtot) and total CBD (CBDtot) in the vapor. High-performance liquid chromatography with photodiode array detection was used for the quantitation of acidic cannabinoids in the residue and to calculate decarboxylation efficiencies. Recoveries of THCtot and CBDtot in the vapor of 4 electrically-driven vaporizers were 58.4 and 51.4%, 66.8 and 56.1%, 82.7 and 70.0% and 54.6 and 56.7% for Volcano Medic®, Plenty Vaporizer®, Arizer Solo® and DaVinci Vaporizer®, respectively. Decarboxylation efficiency was excellent for THC (≥ 97.3%) and CBD (≥ 94.6%). The gas-powered Vape-or-Smoke™ showed recoveries of THCtot and CBDtot in the vapor of 55.9 and 45.9%, respectively, and a decarboxylation efficiency of ≥ 87.7 for both cannabinoids. However, combustion of cannabis was observed with this device. Temperature-controlled, electrically-driven vaporizers efficiently decarboxylate inactive acidic cannabinoids and reliably release their corresponding neutral, active cannabinoids. Thus, they offer a promising application mode for the safe and efficient administration of medicinal cannabis.

Medicinal Cannabis: In Vitro Validation of Vaporizers for the Smoke-Free Inhalation of Cannabis - PubMed

Inhalation by vaporization is a promising application mode for cannabis in medicine. An in vitro validation of 5 commercial vaporizers was performed with THC-type and CBD-type cannabis. Gas chromatography/mass spectrometry was used to determine recoveries of total THC (THCtot) and total CBD...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Vaporware]

I think we would have heard about it if anyone was doing serious scientific studies of extraction efficiency on these. That is probably just Troy’s perception (maybe colored a little by what he likes or makes money on) of their relative levels of efficiency.

It’s the kind of data a lot of us would like to factor into our buying decisions though, so I’m sure that’s why he tried to find or create that data. If he went even as far as sending off before and after flower samples from each device for lab testing though, I’d be impressed!

 

[GoldenBud]

V3 pro - 90%
Rogue - 91%
ArGo - 87%
Roffu - 87%

that's not accurate, sorry, because if a X convection device, V3 Pro for example. let's compare to a conduction device - from this list, which is mostly conduction (ArGo for en example) so it cooks the material BEFORE you inhale hence some vapor pressure will not get to you - it will be gone. some small percentage. hence it's not possible that the V3 Pro is only better in 3.45% other than ArGo. I don't think it's possible.... (90/87*100) for calculations of 3.45%

probably V3 Pro is like 10% more efficient, or even more... I think even 15% or more.

conduction devices will yield more CBN if you like, but for day usage, I prefer convection devices, always

 

[InTheDark707]

thanks everyone for your insight .

Since extraction efficiency is so variable. Would I be correct to assume that the Rogue and Roffu would allow me to have a faster session than the Argo due to its bigger heater?

Like I would be able to clear a bowl faster and as a result it would hit me harder than the Argo which has a longer session time so it would give me the impression of a more extracted herb?

 

[Curious Gorilla]

Those figures cant be accurate due to all the variables involved.
The fact that they restrict airflow to match a lower power prevents any real efficiency.
Vapes that produce stronger vapour when pulled at gently do not have the power to be as efficient at extraction as a vape you can pull as hard as you like on and will still extract more than if you sip.
Just not as power efficient.
Also portable flower vapes are for the most part not as efficient as desktop units. The extraction temperatures are not limited as with most portables.
Personaly i define extraction efficiency as how completely moisture has been removed.
Complete dessication of the herb at as high temperatures in the bowl as can be managed without combustion, leaving it almost black. Almost complete extraction of available active compounds.
As goldenbud says, conduction reduces efficiency, convection is more efficient and can achieve higher temps at the herb/bowl without combusting.
Efficient systems will save you on herb, you will need to use less, but its so tasty you get thru more anyway.
I like baller injector heads. They are very efficient. And very hard hitting.

 

[GoldenBud]

IMHO V3 Pro is the best from the list you gave

 

[hinglemccringleberry]

I would think it means "speed of extraction"

Also, the extraction efficiency of the Roffu with metal chamber will be different (higher) than the Roffu with glass chamber...
So perhaps the glass chamber is dragging the number down. The Argo is a glass chamber vape and also has a lower score..

 

[Shit Snacks]

extracting efficiency? Does Hard hitter also fall within this term?

Sort of, basically refers to how well it extracts the actives, so that could mean speed and also primarily how thorough, typically with a small amount (if it was a larger amount then you would look to get more hits or a complete extraction evenly)

Does this mean that the Roffu is worse in extracting than the v3 (I thought these were similar internals)?

Roffu and V3P are more or less equal, capability wise, if you read those threads you will see some differing opinions and there is also a comparison thread between them

I was looking to upgrade from an ArGo to the Rogue or Roffu thinking they would extract my herb faster but now I’m more confused

You don't sound that confused though, you have the right idea, ArGo is slow to thoroughly extract and may not do so in the way the others can... Rogue has more power so it is faster and more capable as a hybrid... Roffu also has more power and could be even quicker since it is more pure convection and capable on demand (instead of only session style like the ArGo and Rogue, these two have plenty of conduction present, they can extract regardless of you inhaling whereas pure convection is all the inhale creating the vapor)

Since extraction efficiency is so variable. Would I be correct to assume that the Rogue and Roffu would allow me to have a faster session than the Argo due to its bigger heater?

Yes, faster to heat up, and faster to extract, relative to the temp settings and size of your hits, necessarily a result of heater size as each of these has similarly sized small heaters...

Like I would be able to clear a bowl faster and as a result it would hit me harder than the Argo which has a longer session time so it would give me the impression of a more extracted herb?

Yes but like I said they use different technology and have more power, so it's not as simple as speed of extraction not exactly how fully extracted either, as that can be relative to the device itself, technology used, temp settings, how it is loaded, etc and more

 

[TigoleBitties]

Hope everyone is doing well.

I bought a vape late last year and am looking to upgrade. Doing some research online and I’m having a hard time understanding what everyone means by extracting efficiency? Does Hard hitter also fall within this term?

For example I’ll use 420vapezone reviews and the percentage given for potency/extraction:

V3 pro - 90%
Rogue - 91%
ArGo - 87%
Roffu - 87%

Does this mean that the Roffu is worse in extracting than the v3 (I thought these were similar internals)? I was looking to upgrade from an ArGo to the Rogue or Roffu thinking they would extract my herb faster but now I’m more confused. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Even if we accept these (very subjective) numbers, would anyone really notice a 4% difference in... anything? Would you notice if your eyesight was 4% better? Seems like these numbers are a wash anyhow. Noticing less than 1/20th of a change in something... dubious.

 

[InTheDark707]

IMHO V3 Pro is the best from the list you gave

Please correct me if I’m wrong. But while researching, I’ve read conflicting opinions saying the V3 pro goes through harmful substances…… this was kinda my main motivation to get the Roffu cuz I though it was made of “healthier” materials.

 

[InTheDark707]

Sort of, basically refers to how well it extracts the actives, so that could mean speed and also primarily how thorough, typically with a small amount (if it was a larger amount then you would look to get more hits or a complete extraction evenly)



Roffu and V3P are more or less equal, capability wise, if you read those threads you will see some differing opinions and there is also a comparison thread between them



You don't sound that confused though, you have the right idea, ArGo is slow to thoroughly extract and may not do so in the way the others can... Rogue has more power so it is faster and more capable as a hybrid... Roffu also has more power and could be even quicker since it is more pure convection and capable on demand (instead of only session style like the ArGo and Rogue, these two have plenty of conduction present, they can extract regardless of you inhaling whereas pure convection is all the inhale creating the vapor)



Yes, faster to heat up, and faster to extract, relative to the temp settings and size of your hits, necessarily a result of heater size as each of these has similarly sized small heaters...



Yes but like I said they use different technology and have more power, so it's not as simple as speed of extraction not exactly how fully extracted either, as that can be relative to the device itself, technology used, temp settings, how it is loaded, etc and

I REALLY appreciate the reply. Now I feel like I am acc understanding this vape electronic stuff. Thank you

 

[Grass Yes]

Please correct me if I’m wrong. But while researching, I’ve read conflicting opinions saying the V3 pro goes through harmful substances…… this was kinda my main motivation to get the Roffu cuz I though it was made of “healthier” materials.

I have only heard bullshit claims about heater materials. Which would be the same in both vapes.

 

[Shit Snacks]

Oh by the way you can press the quote button on the bottom to collect them and then insert them into one post, we try not to post back-to-back unless it's after a certain amount of time (also there is an edit window btw) welcome to FC!

Please correct me if I’m wrong. But while researching, I’ve read conflicting opinions saying the V3 pro goes through harmful substances…… this was kinda my main motivation to get the Roffu cuz I though it was made of “healthier” materials.

I believe that is wrong, no harmful substance, in fact the air path in the stock set up of the V3P is more pure and better tasting than the Roffu, primarily because the V3P has a ceramic pathway inside the silicone in the plastic mouthpiece... Roffu has some silicone in the pathway although it's U-turn cooling unit pathway is also very effective. They both also have alternative mouthpiece options, plenty, capability for pure glass pathway and chambers... So yeah pretty much nonsense lol the heater materials should be the same or at least similar metal alloy (kanthal?)

 

[Timps27]

 

[GoldenBud]

efficiency depends what you want to extract.. if you want to extract terpenes, don't use conduction devices, use convection devices (ofcourse convection devices will extract most of thc too)
if you want to extract 100% of the thc, use conduction device (and i'm pretty sure it extracts some cbn too...)

conduction devices will give you terpenes too, but convection is more efficient in doing this

 

[TheThriftDrifter]

I was looking to upgrade from an ArGo to the Rogue or Roffu thinking they would extract my herb faster

What about a tinymight or dynavap as faster extracting options?

 

[InTheDark707]

What about a tinymight or dynavap as faster extracting options?

Mainly just price ($$$) and the dyna needs a lighter haha.

 

[floribud]

Maybe I'm a wierdo but I define efficiency as how much good stuff is extracted before the vapor taste is below the threshold where I want to continue vaping.

In this scenario, I think the Firefly and then the Angus, and then the ALP are my most efficient since the flavor stays the longest and by the time I want to reup my bowl, my current herb looks pretty much toasted to the max before combustion.

 

[Shit Snacks]

Maybe I'm a wierdo but I define efficiency as how much good stuff is extracted before the vapor taste is below the threshold where I want to continue vaping.

In this scenario, I think the Firefly and then the Angus, and then the ALP are my most efficient since the flavor stays the longest and by the time I want to reup my bowl, my current herb looks pretty much toasted to the max before combustion.

I was going to agree until you said that would make the Firefly efficient because I find it pretty frustrating haha easier to dump into another vape to finish and have the flavor last better with less maintenance

 

[Timps27]

FF2+ was my first vape, I don’t know if I had a bad unit or it was just because I was new but I could never get a session without combusting. Sent it back to POTV and got a Rogue and an OG Brick instead. I really liked the ritual of the vape though, I’ve thought about revisiting it…

 

[floribud]

I was going to agree until you said that would make the Firefly efficient because I find it pretty frustrating haha easier to dump into another vape to finish and have the flavor last better with less maintenance

I total understand what you're saying. I rarely use my FF2+ anymore. But when I do I'm usually laying in bed and doing a gradually temp stepping when I encounter really really good herb. I usually practice some circular breathing and do like 7 or 8 25 second draws on the FF before I and the flower are completely wiped out. It's fun, but it's not a ritual that I want to do all the time, and it's really nothing I have the time for often. To me the ALP and the Angus are really about the best combination of efficiency and speed. On the other end, the Pax is an example of the worst in vapes, in that it takes a LONG time to fully extract and the herb tastes like shit after about 2 minutes, but you still have another 6 or 8 minutes if you want a full extraction.